Technology
All human brains will be connected to the internet | Saturnin Pugnet | Worldcoin | firstminute capital
In this episode of Crazy Until It's Not, host Michael Stoffert interviews Sat Pune, a founding member of WorldCoin, about the future of human connectivity through technology. They explore the con...
All human brains will be connected to the internet | Saturnin Pugnet | Worldcoin | firstminute capital
Technology •
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Interactive Transcript
spk_0
So I think I believe that all humans will be connected to the internet within a decade of a few decades.
spk_0
Hello and welcome to Crazy Until It's Not, a podcast about big ideas and the amazing people behind them.
spk_0
Every episode we bring on a new guest who has a prediction for the future which on the face of it sounds a little bit crazy.
spk_0
I'm your host Michael Stoffert, an early stage tech investor at First Minute Capital.
spk_0
And today I'm joined by Sat Pune, one of the founding members of WorldCoin, the Universal Digital Coity, backed by many tech luminaries such as Sam Altman.
spk_0
Sat, thank you so much for joining us, really excited for this discussion.
spk_0
Can we just start by just a bit about you, like your background, how you got from France, the Caltech, to this crazy project, WorldCoin.
spk_0
Give it to us, how did you get there?
spk_0
Yes, so first things to have me on the podcast Michael is great to be here and to talk with you about big ideas.
spk_0
So I started inside of France, I was born in Marseille and then when I was really young I decided I wanted to work in technology and see what was going on there.
spk_0
So I moved to London, I studied for a couple of years in London and then during my time at university I discovered startups and I said that's what I wanted to do.
spk_0
So I started building companies in London for a couple of years.
spk_0
I also work a bit for big tech company at the beginning to get a bit of money that I needed at the time, build a few study of your company in London and then from there I decided that what was really interested to me, interesting to me was deep tech and very big ideas, a moonshot type of ideas.
spk_0
I decided that I needed to move to California for this because it's really hard to raise capital for really big moonshot like ideas in Europe, it's much harder.
spk_0
So I moved to California and went to Caltech.
spk_0
I did some research in AI and Neuron Caltech and it was a good way also to get the visa.
spk_0
So it was kind of one stone to bed in this way.
spk_0
So I was really interested in research and also getting the visa that I needed to work with.
spk_0
After this, over the other during Caltech I was making out of trips by Gensforce to asset because the idea was to build a company that's why I came here.
spk_0
And through certainty I met the rest of the funding team of Walcoin.
spk_0
So actually a few of the members were doing PhDs at Caltech in theoretical physics and we made completely randomly actually we met in the last half before they were about to leave in good San Francisco and never come back to Caltech and we met then for like 30 minutes.
spk_0
And we hit it off pretty well and then I decided to just take a flight, go to San Francisco and crash at the apartment and see what happens.
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And yeah, four years and a half later we're still working together and we built Walcoin to what it is right now.
spk_0
It's been an exciting journey.
spk_0
That's like the SF dream, you know, you bump into the right people at the right moment and build this massive thing.
spk_0
I'm a bit on our almost job tart but I couldn't do it because I needed the visa.
spk_0
So even though there was this overlap and I could have the dropout story, I actually couldn't do it because I needed the visa.
spk_0
I thought I was going to stand there.
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So I don't have the full story. I'm missing the dropping out part already.
spk_0
So I know.
spk_0
What was the vision back then?
spk_0
What was the thing that they got you really excited about Walcoin back then?
spk_0
Because obviously it's gone in lots of different directions and you know, there's there are different visions for what it could be with the technology, which is which is the kind of fundamental bad rocker back.
spk_0
But like what was the vision back then?
spk_0
So the vision was and is really simple at the high level.
spk_0
We believe that edge is coming and that we need new infrastructures for a world with edge.
spk_0
And that's the premise and what we're doing is building those infrastructures and those are two things.
spk_0
A proof of person who is a way to have an identity on the internet in a world where advanced AI is everyone on the internet.
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And a new financial system that is global decentralized and accessible to anyone.
spk_0
So that those are the two pillars of what we're building and they're here to support a world with advanced artificial intelligence.
spk_0
Now ties in very nicely to actually a lot of the ideas that we're going to talk about today.
spk_0
We're actually not going to discuss Walcoin, although maybe in a related way, but a couple of other ideas related really fundamentally to advanced AGI and what it and what it really means.
spk_0
But onto the onto the first one, which I love and I think is really fascinating.
spk_0
Tell us that what is your first big crazy idea?
spk_0
So I think I believe that all humans will be connected to the internet within a decade of few decades.
spk_0
All humans will be connected to the internet within a decade.
spk_0
Okay, that's exciting. Sometimes I feel like I'm already connected to the internet.
spk_0
But what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean by this?
spk_0
So first of all, you're right. We are already connected to the internet.
spk_0
I think when we when we talked offline, you mentioned cyborg by the five or two other phone and you basically just it's indirectly you connected to everything and it is a very so it's just very slow.
spk_0
That's a difference. It's all that who put how much you can read per second and how much you can write per second.
spk_0
And what I mean, they're connected. You know, you can only do so much by the usual means, which I just the eyes basically.
spk_0
There's only so much information you can get in.
spk_0
Your brain is built process much more information. You can if you, for example, remember a book you can remember a lot of details really fast.
spk_0
You can think about a lot of things much faster than you can read them actually when you understand when you read words.
spk_0
It takes words and then creates concepts from them. And that you can create concept much faster than you read words.
spk_0
It's just the time to process the word and create the concept is long.
spk_0
Anyway, what I think will happen is that we are slowly going to be able to read better and write better to the brain.
spk_0
And we're basically going to build what I call an exocortex, which is this three layers to the brain right now.
spk_0
There's a little brain which takes care of the basics like breathing like your hearts and just making sure that you don't die basically.
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And with the eye and comment with many spaces, then there's a monkey brain, which is only shared with the monkey branch of the animal tree.
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And this is about emotion like fear, excitement, joy and all of this comes from this part of the brain.
spk_0
Then there's a neo-colotex which the humans are the only one to have. And this is about reasoning logic and all the meta thought that we're having by ourselves seems to be specific to humans.
spk_0
And what I call the exocortex is once we get good enough at reading and writing to the brain, which has this external layer of the brain that it does not feel out of us like it doesn't feel different.
spk_0
The same way that you don't feel like you have three layers of the brain, you just think and you know something.
spk_0
So what I mean by this, I can give you a concrete example. Imagine you saw a movie two years ago right now and ask you about a specific scene.
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And then you would just pop up in your brain, you would remember it, you would like, oh yeah, when a throw throw the ring in the volcano, I can remember this is very clear.
spk_0
But imagine we have the exocortex, what could happen that I talked to you about a book you've never read or a movie you've never seen.
spk_0
And you just think about it and then you remember what would happen is actually your brain would be connected to this false layer.
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And you would have input of information that come from the outside and you could then remember the thing that you've never seen.
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So that's how you could conceptualize it.
spk_0
And the way we could go there could be very incremental as well.
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Like when people hear this, they imagine something so futuristic that you can't even imagine where it would be like.
spk_0
But it could be to start simple things.
spk_0
You could be first the reading of the brain that can become really good and you could have machines read your thoughts and you could buy this, this way, interact much faster with internet.
spk_0
For example, imagine you have an airport and you're working around and you're wondering, whatever random question like, how many people live in Africa.
spk_0
And you could get the answer instantly. Why are you earphones because it would hear you thoughts and your question and search and interact and tell you.
spk_0
So this is not so crazy to imagine that it's not like it's sort of exists with neural link, doesn't it?
spk_0
In some way shape of form.
spk_0
Exactly. Some light version of this like we don't know.
spk_0
But like what I mean is that you could have a real product that's over there and whenever you have a thought, it could read it and when it knows you want to process it, it would look in there and tell you with some.
spk_0
It's not directly right to your brain, you know, but like the easy way would be just with some, you know, you would just input something or you could also have like a chip in your eyes and it would show you something.
spk_0
So it's like, oh, I want to see what this species of dolphin looks like. And suddenly you will see an image because first of all, you can have glasses and you can have something inside the eyes later on that just activates, objectivates whenever you want to input images to people.
spk_0
So it would be the easy way to write to the brain because we're just being using the senses and then the more advanced way is when you write directly inside the brain, like deeper in the brain, like not to your senses, but as I said with example of the movie, you just remember, but it didn't, didn't feel external.
spk_0
It just was always internal. So start with you just remember the movie or book or whatever, you just know something.
spk_0
And I think this is not fundamental rhythm, where this is not possible together. And I think we incrementally get the more and more faster and faster.
spk_0
And it'll be exponential because when people realize this is possible and what you can do with this, which is insane.
spk_0
We're going to see an insane amount of funding going to this field, which can accelerate the same way that they've been accelerating for AI is going to be very exponential.
spk_0
And my prediction is that this will happen very soon. I think people don't realize yet the same way that the didn't realize AI was this thing.
spk_0
And we just need this first big hit like this product or something that people are like, oh, we can do that.
spk_0
And then money is going to start flowing. And then we're going to start to make faster research and get there faster. And it's just going to be all exponential from there.
spk_0
Do you think that's the first product? Do you think it's the airport audio thinking, or is it something even simpler than that? Like what's the chat, you be team moment for this?
spk_0
I think it's very unclear what it would be because in my opinion, you need to do something that's huge like the optimal would be to do something like an iPhone or Tesla for new tech.
spk_0
That's how you really like unlock the money. And I think this field, the first thing you want to do if you want to solve anything is you need to unlock the money.
spk_0
And I'm not in for example, Newark, what they're doing is they're trying to go straight into solving the problem is like I don't think it's a $10 billion work.
spk_0
I don't think it's a hundred billion dollar work. I think it's three years of dollar and three years of dollar does not single individual entity which can unlock this amount of money.
spk_0
So one is so much money that you need. What you actually need to do is first unlock the flow of capital. And I don't think Newark is optimizing towards this.
spk_0
They're optimizing in solving the issue. But they're not doing like exciting product in the wider sense of the term that is going to get a lot of inflow.
spk_0
And therefore, in my opinion, this is the first thing you need to do. Just find a cool iPhone like product or something you can build that gets people excited and then get some money into the field to do this trillion dollar research that we need to do to actually do it.
spk_0
I'm blown away by this point of yours that you kind of wouldn't notice like you don't really know when your lizard brain is thinking when your monkey brain is talking when your human your cortex is the one in charge.
spk_0
I mean, you can sort of work it out if you think about it, but it's very much not obvious. But I love the idea of this sort of seamless integration with computers and where that takes us.
spk_0
My question is I love to work some of the good and the bad things of this. If this was the universe that we lived in in 10 years time, the one bad one that struck the mind was just like quite tense, having the internet in your brain the whole time.
spk_0
I mean, a tick tock is already bad enough like tick tock just like the essence of tick tock boil down and injected straight into my dopamine receptors doesn't sound like all that fun.
spk_0
Is that a worry?
spk_0
I think yes, I think I think this is important for this to happen. And the reason is that in my opinion, this is the only true safeguard that we have against a GI going crazy and going to the insanity but scenarios that you can have is to ultimately merge to some extent with it.
spk_0
So it doesn't become an external entity that's doing stuff that you don't even know what's going on. It becomes an internal entity and then like it's like it's yourself. So there is no like drugs and I will just go off and just crazy thing because it's you.
spk_0
I think it's very important for this reason.
spk_0
I do think that there are many risks in doing something like this. The one you mentioned as one of the biggest one, but it's also like cyber security.
spk_0
Like if you can literally like you've not used to this like you've been thinking very with stuff in your brain or at least I have I guess most people have because no one can read it.
spk_0
But what is suddenly this is readable and if someone hugs you they can do you read what you're thinking like the most weird thing that you've been keeping to yourself and it's fine.
spk_0
But it just becomes very different dynamic. It's only people can if you get hug like imagine you the same thing like oh drug bug got hugs 10,000 password got leaked and this time it'll be oh Michael got hacked and holy thoughts for the past 10 years are being leaked.
spk_0
This is like completely different level and this is what the biggest for like it's not worried for me.
spk_0
But it's one of the many completely new thing that we know one even thought about that the world rise from this and that is not trivial how you deal with something like this.
spk_0
But the cool flip side of that is what does it do to like human the depth of human communication if it is possible like if it's possible to leak my innermost thoughts and feelings and desires.
spk_0
So there's you know could I also send these to other people without the blunt instrument of words.
spk_0
Like we as humans in society has evolved so much but and and of the technology in the way you can transmit information has evolved so much but we still one on one use words which we've been using for you know 10,000 of years.
spk_0
So when the be cool if I could just like send you the exact type of hope that I feel.
spk_0
That is a great question and I think actually this is one of the big interesting idea that comes from from from from being able to do that.
spk_0
So the throughput of communication between humans is super slow like you first have to think then you generate a concept then you generate a wording for it then you generate a son that could plan this wording and you go through the air and you get into your ear you convert this son into words you convert this word into your own concept and then it's all concept into emotion or action and every step of the way like something is lost like you lose something.
spk_0
And it's very inefficient in this sense and it's also it is not even map well one to one like some words mean something for me that means a different thing for you just because we were different.
spk_0
And what you could do research technology is go skip all the steps just go from one concept in my head to one concept in your head but even we are going so crazy a bit less into the future.
spk_0
What you could do is imagine with something that's much more easy to think about is like imagine you put a chip in you in your eyes okay behind where the signal are being received and then we already can do that with like 64 by 64 for people I cannot see where you can just make them see by basically just activating this cells behind the eyes which actually send the signal to the visual cortex.
spk_0
So imagine you put a chip like this you put the chip also in your ears something we can already do this for people that cannot here we just activate the auditory system directly there okay imagine I do those two things now what I can do is I can
spk_0
transmit what I'm seeing and hearing to you so imagine I go walk on the top of the Kilimanjaro and I can just click on my phone and I will transmit to you live the life but not like in the not in a video or something like literally in your eyes like you would feel you would see in here exactly what I'm seeing a hearing but not that the condition is literally like it couldn't be more real than this is like the maximum is literally you were there and you could do something like this that's already a first sharing of experience that's pretty extreme.
spk_0
But then you could go even further you say like once when we get better and better understanding the brain I could just transmit to you the entire concept of linear algebra and the way I sit to you and then you can understand how I see that or even my emotion I could transmit to you did I directly my emotion like if I'm afraid if I'm happy that could just transmit that to you and it would make for like the much deeper faster throughput of information between you and like a meeting group
spk_0
like for a company which is just a bit of people sitting around a room and then no word just thinking and you discuss 20 hours worth of meeting in like five minutes because you just literally throw a concept and one on the side that's a concept the concept gets molten into something and it's done and you could have those without cup which I don't think I'm impossible but we really tend the way we interact with the world.
spk_0
Yeah, super super super cool. I wonder if the other way to see this is not as a mass consumer application, I phone, I'll try to get it but more like the merging as you said earlier the more like the merging of with a GI like human a GI actually whether this ends up being
spk_0
reserved for basically a handful of scientists to discover you know to discover light speed near light speed transportation you basically just need to be a human you know connected to a quasi a GI and like that will make more sense than everyone than everyone being connected up.
spk_0
So potentially that could be true or not be true what I can say sure because of the way the world is set up geopolitically there's huge came theory and scenario going on which we can see with AI which meant that different major entities in the world are fighting between each other to be able to get the right to be a human.
spk_0
You get the first to be the first on those technology on any of the new technologies and therefore any scenario which said that one of them would be better of flowing down is unlikely to happen because even in one party slow down the other one as a big advantage in spitting up like for example the tension between Russia, US, China and other entities.
spk_0
If one size slow down the other side is going to keep going or at least the ones I won't try the other side to slow down and it's the same with this if you say okay maybe this technology to be reserves so a few people because and then they can start with this and I don't think it will will happen because there's big incentive to speed up on both sides and therefore they will try to push this technology out like as fast as possible because of this.
spk_0
Yeah, really. But it does, but it does.
spk_0
It's most exciting use case could be in science right like moving forward science in a in a more profound way.
spk_0
So for this I.
spk_0
Do and don't think so because by the time we get to very good brain machine in space, I believe that you will be good enough that we don't really need you meant in the loop.
spk_0
Like sure we can just it would be just export you can go there and see what's going on in research like in the latest what are you actually doing.
spk_0
But practically don't really need to be there like it doesn't need you like the year I would be already better than you at this so it's a bit more optional you can go there.
spk_0
See what's going on that you don't be useful to it.
spk_0
Or if you can make it be done offline.
spk_0
Yeah, really interesting this reminds me of I don't know if you've ever read that that Peter what book blind site and there's a character and a who is connected to the internet and they all hate him because he's connected to the internet and the things to cyborg.
spk_0
But this is actually more kind of culture novel world where DJI is already basically solved all of the problems which is also really exciting which brings us on to our next.
spk_0
Idea which is extremely related and normally we just do one on the show but we're doing a couple because that has a lot of cool ideas.
spk_0
So could you tell us your next crazy idea the one about work and the future of work.
spk_0
Yes, so I believe that within a decade most work will be gone it will be a relic from the past.
spk_0
So let me go deeper into this because there's some carrot.
spk_0
I don't think that work is going to be completely gone and disappeared but I think in 10 years within 10 years it will be clear that it's about to happen it will now be clear to everyone.
spk_0
The same way that it's becoming clear to everyone slowly and slowly.
spk_0
The edge I either think I think within 10 years we can clear to everyone including governments and all the major entities that the concept like the paradigms of life which has been going on for now a few thousand years of your growth you go to university you just cool then you work for 40 years and then you go and you're old and you do all the people stuff.
spk_0
That is not going to be a thing because the work part of it won't be useful we love AI that is better or about to get better than us are pretty much everything.
spk_0
And so there won't be any need for humans to do things because what would you do something if it's the of this entity that's better than you can be automated and can be scaled very easily.
spk_0
And so that will become really clear and I know that many people think that sure we won't have the conventional work that we have but like in the past when we invented the whatever the trains like new job got created and it's not like course people did it just moved on.
spk_0
Sure you can make this argument but I think this technology is fundamentally different but the because it's not amplifying humans or specific thing that human can do is amplifying intelligence which is radically different and therefore we will pretty soon I mean somebody getting slowly and slowly more obvious like for example for cars once they're like self-driving cars obviously you lose a lot of jobs around this one day is self-trained generating can be done by the AI of course you lose.
spk_0
And so it's not just a lot of jobs around this but it's just going to be expansionally getting into every single possible job and then the emotional argument of like yeah but maybe I want to be connected to my doctor I want to feel close to them sure but it's also going to disappear over time like at some point when you just know that the AI doctor is a thousand time more efficient a thousand time better than you would just learn that it's better than the human we stop having the needs for this emotional connection I think.
spk_0
A thousand questions about this but one my first one is are you saying all like useful jobs like actually important useful jobs will be done will be taken over by H.I.
spk_0
I get that do you think though that there'll be just like there'll still be basically like pointless jobs that will be done by humans I mean like the person that opens the door for you the fancy hotel is not there because he has actually useful he's there just to make humans feel like big and important I suppose.
spk_0
It's like the David Gray book bullshit jobs I don't know if you've ever read that you know there's a whole class of jobs that aren't really about utility that are about I don't know just sort of bullshit do you think that well I think those will continue and you think they'll be.
spk_0
Like other universes of jobs like that the will the quasi continue would you really think it will be a world where just people have to find other stuff to do there isn't work.
spk_0
So I do think again because of the emotional connection or at least this is the hardest thing around some of those jobs that some job will stick for longer because the cultural shift is going to take longer to happen but I just think they will be gone they can be replaced by robots and there's no reason why not and it's just a cultural thing and now culture evolves faster than ever.
spk_0
So I also don't think the cultural shift will take that long to happen because people are used to cultural shifts now just because faster than before so I don't really think that those will stick in the long term.
spk_0
I think what will happen is that now it's all about rationality it's all about intelligence for humans to to to to to perform society need to be resourceful and intelligent creativity is not very useful in most artists partly useful only in most scenarios the creativity is going to become the main and arguably only thing.
spk_0
And then human should do and think about because you start having a world was an immediate possibilities you can do anything you want.
spk_0
You have the AI taking care of everything else and I can create and build whatever you think about and so it becomes all about creativity like what do you want to build what's interesting what what do you want this infinite workforce to be doing for you what you want the world to go.
spk_0
And this becomes slowly and slowly more important and arguably the AI could also become really good at the creativity part so you would potentially work with the AI or yeah there will be some kind of interaction I think also on the creativity side but I think it's because we're going to become more and more creativity so it's not about the how you build your house because this you don't need to do it just that you thinking how you would wonder how has to look like and what you would prefer.
spk_0
And then you could be able to automatically so that's how it's going to shift I think and the work is just going to be gone to work yourself.
spk_0
Do you see a world where the AI might might make us.
spk_0
It's stupid jobs that aren't connected to anything real just to stop us all going insane.
spk_0
Do you not think that there is a big group of humanity that needs either a majority or a minority but some group that needs just to grind away at something be told what to do all they're going to be miserable.
spk_0
Slash revolt and destroy all the machines.
spk_0
Subquestion are we already in that world where we're all just pretending to do work but it's not as you can act to do anything.
spk_0
Very good question and very good question so.
spk_0
There's different scenario that I've been thought through an image in for like how edg I could work out and what could happen.
spk_0
This is one of the one that has been thought about by the AI safety community and it's called the benevolent God.
spk_0
So what could happen is that the edg I guess very good very good very good and then somehow disappears.
spk_0
Like the act like he didn't work the AI and the human like think our focus is not work.
spk_0
This disappears.
spk_0
What happens is really just monitoring everything from the background and it's just adjusting small details and society like it's having a god like influence on the world by
spk_0
influencing like little bits and pieces like you know just making the world a bit better creating a you say like artificial job and everything we're just checking everything in the background and optimizing for happiness of fulfillment from really that way that people don't know just just there it took a little bit of the world life
spk_0
just monitors everything you know like little thing like maybe like it tweaks for the whole day going on the internet that makes it interact with people all this stuff and it's a one of the scenario and as you say by definition of this scenario if you already got that we wouldn't know like we yeah it might it might be the case because the definition is it's go it goes and hides away.
spk_0
And I mean I don't think I can say much about those like there's many scenarios about how it could end up it's very hard to know because all are very reasonable but this is definitely one of them where we just say tell the I like optimize for happiness and just do that.
spk_0
But you think the humans need to be doing miserable groundwork to be happy truly because we love to punish ourselves.
spk_0
So I don't think I think there's this this concept of thriving for happiness in your life. I don't think this is the thing happiness is a man is it is not permanent is temporary there's no such thing as like it's a it's a really is of certain chemical that go into spike and if you're happy you're going to be sad and there's no one without the other.
spk_0
And I don't think there's a state of constant happiness or if there is it's called like like we're going to do it just being on drug and just be on drugs 24 sevens which like really is a ton of the things and you feel really high and happy but if you try drugs it's not a state you want to be on all the time it's like it's nice but it feels the types like it doesn't feel like like like a good state to be in so.
spk_0
I think fulfillment is a more interesting thing to optimize for than happiness and it's a component of fulfillment based on the whole thing.
spk_0
I don't think we necessarily need to do work to have this feeling. I think you need to have your mind busy I think getting bored for human is could could have a huge impact and as you say like if suddenly there's no work from Monday to another almost.
spk_0
I think that's also the population what could happen is people just just starting revolves is starting in the street is going crazy and I think that's very that's not a stupid prediction is very possible possible when people it's why you see in many countries with an employment that's where you can see unrest and start coming chaotic if they sustain an employment because people.
spk_0
They could have energy and they want to use it somewhere and then if they go in the street and start fighting and then things escalate and if suddenly the entire world is free and all these three times and get bored it could totally explode that people could just be like super annoyed and pissed off and start fighting each other.
spk_0
It's hard to predict the thing is that I think it will happen whether or not we think it's a good thing so now the only thing we can do is how to make that a good thing and try to think about it preemptively of how you could set up a world like this like how do we shift all the pride line of how we live life if we take the premise that this is going to happen.
spk_0
It's happening in 10 years okay what do we do now how do we set up lives it's not obvious because so many people getting bored such a scale and what do you even do with your life if you don't really have to work for anything it's very unclear it's very unclear you spend your days partying you spend your days like traveling what what do you do and I think it's a very difficult question that needs to be further thought through on the societal level.
spk_0
What do we do about this again the AI might think about really clever solutions to this but the question is like what do we even want the AI to optimize because if you just say happiness like you say you might just take all of us plug us into some drugs like things that gives us continuously drugs and yeah on paper it's exceeded we're all happy but I don't think that's what we mean when we say happiness to do it even though from like its optimization function it did make us happy.
spk_0
So the big question of like what do you actually want the AI to optimize for because it's not even created to us what we want that to be.
spk_0
Yeah I need to find some hobbies that aren't investing in at least age tech companies.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Cool well I'm conscious of time but I would love to just spend two minutes on your last two big crazy ideas.
spk_0
Could we do energy and immortality just those tiny little tiny little subjects but just in a couple of minutes what that is your big crazy prediction about the world of the world of energy into which is
spk_0
the key was in decade. So and the reason is that if you go down to the level of physics energies everywhere you're there's not like of energy in the universe like there's so much energy everywhere is just that we don't know how to use it well it's just not of us not being good at physics by engineering of it.
spk_0
I think we are going to get there pretty soon fusion being the big break through that's going to happen and then we'll have pretty much unlimited energy practically like we'll have so much energy from fusion that we could do anything and this is just going to go exponential.
spk_0
There will be no problems anymore of like pollution and all this thing would be again it would be something that we don't need to worry about.
spk_0
It's not just having unlimited energy it's having unlimited energy with no constraint of why not to use it and like what we have now where we are like oh we have to save energy because of global warming which I think is a real thing but if suddenly you don't just constraint and you just can use as much energy as you want because just that is so many new things that can write from this.
spk_0
You could have each week whatever flying cities like this is not there because so much energy to keep a huge mass of land in there but if suddenly you have unlimited energy you don't care by using energy like why not you could literally stop flying city it's just a bench of I mean it's not easy engineering wise to do it's not impossible there's a bunch of react like a reactor pushing the thing up and let's say you could stuff something like this.
spk_0
It's not absurd anymore it's just question like nobody even thinks about those things right now because of the absurd amount of energy we use like it would be unacceptable.
spk_0
But if it's unlimited yes true do something like this and it's a variant of crazy thing like this that you could do if you have unlimited energy and I think it's about to happen very soon again it's going to surprise people within the next decade.
spk_0
Flying cities obviously super fun what else would you do with unlimited energy what are you what are you go to fun ideas are we are we terraforming are we terraforming planets are we living under the sea.
spk_0
Do you just have a chair that hovers around the whole time like what's what's what's top of your list in a world of infinite infinite resources well the one you get are really good I think for example.
spk_0
Things like warm of drones in city that just build buildings and build stuff could be there because it's a ton of energy but only you don't care to performing super expensive energy.
spk_0
So that if you have unlimited energy whether not to treat everyone this hour like what are them with drones that just go back and forth to the ocean and each we tell from the entire side to become a forest just a question of energy but if you have energy and robots you can do that just like you just tell them to go and then come back every two years to say what's going on and you will have this and you can do this massive terraforming and I actually start not taking the geography of earth as a given just decide which one it to look like.
spk_0
And obviously you have a bunch of ecological things to take into account to not kill everything on the way but this can be done you can think it is ways to think about it and to design it in a way that will change it whether destroying the ecosystem is doable and all those things become doable you can turn from the earth you can live under the water you can live like like 10,000 feet deep if you want and create a city an entire city there because you have unlimited energy you can fly in cars well like it just change it the quick way you can do it.
spk_0
So many things if energy is not in the creation anymore it is so much freedom in thinking and I think people I soon going to realize how much freedom you get from this and things are going to get more crazy because of this.
spk_0
I want to live on living that world. Final one. Immortality tell us your final final big idea.
spk_0
Yeah, I think a good way that I like to phrase it is like don't die or die trying which is a funny way to convey the idea that we the pretty much the first generation I think who are a reasonable shot at actually building the necessity technology for us to live.
spk_0
Practically, practically infinite amount of time infinite again physical limit of the universe which at some point everything dies in one Google years but before that we can be we can practically immortal and what it means is just mean that we need if you can add one extra year of life plan to humans every year that is good you reach the threshold you need to reach that you can keep going for infinity.
spk_0
And we are making exponential progress in how good we becoming a longevity and we we also making exponential progress at the technology that can enable that to happen faster which is AI big part.
spk_0
And if you stack the exponential it seems very not absurd that we might especially people that below 60 50 live for an insane amount of time or have the option to live an insane amount of time.
spk_0
Again, I think this was in the next 10 50 years is going to become one more obvious to people but I don't think people realize that they're live in the first generation where that can be a thing.
spk_0
But this requires a GI doesn't it because what always strikes me about anything to do with health or human is just how incredibly slow it is.
spk_0
I mean like people don't even know how we should eat really you know there's that billions of natural walking experiment to know and can decide whether it's good to eat carbs or fat or whatever it is you know people are useless at this stuff.
spk_0
We do need we feel so we need some exponential moment for this to really happen or is that the wrong way to think about it.
spk_0
So I do think a GI would definitely help it would it would add to the exponential but I think it can be achieved even without a GI and again like a GI is not like a wide reality of advanced.
spk_0
So it's just a huge energy and it's helping with the research and starting to more and more help the research.
spk_0
But I think it can happen even without like it becoming the only driver for it.
spk_0
I think my prediction is that a GI will be a thing and therefore it will just make it happen but we already really close to slowing down a lot of the aging process and understanding them.
spk_0
Actually if you even with a GI it's just need to understand how to rejuvenate like cells.
spk_0
For example, this is already a good 80% of not aging and there's a bunch of like it's those very specific things that you need to achieve for longevity to be solved.
spk_0
And if they are achieved which we're not too far from achieving then you don't need the edge of it's not like it's not like an insane thing that is to happen.
spk_0
It's like the whole thing is crazy based on bunch of very simple things like stopping being simple.
spk_0
Stopping cells to get old or like making them rejuvenate is is is is very specific and and targeted thing that you can think about and this is one of the biggest components for example.
spk_0
And if you take all those little pieces one by one we are getting very close to solving each of them and then it's just also going to click is going to be kind of a discrete function at some point you just like suddenly.
spk_0
Like it becomes clear that we can solve it and we can live for a very long time and then from this point of text become better and better and better and then it becomes not just that you can stay at the same age but you can literally rejuvenate and then after a while you become that you can be 100% healthier 100% of the time you never get sick and it would just slowly go up and up and up from there.
spk_0
And this is going to happen really soon and the real issue is going to happen really soon that this is going to be a thing is going to be also exponential because you're going to get more and more funding into the into the field.
spk_0
The same way as we discussed earlier with neurotech when the world realized that longevity and the mortality is possible.
spk_0
Suddenly I want to be like why not put money into this and also most of the money in the world is from old people actually which is pushing even more because they're going to be like them actually I could maybe become more tall so maybe I should put some money into this and it's going to be an extra driver to get a ton of money and again I think it's just a question of money if you have a few trillion dollar into this it's just be solved that's a very big sum.
spk_0
Well I for one very much want to live in your future where we are connected to the internet where work is gone where we have unlimited energy and we're practically immortal.
spk_0
So thank you so much for coming on the show and explaining to us your vision for the future which is a wonderful one albeit scary in some places.
spk_0
And I also know that you're investing lots in these spaces to make it come about so on behalf of humanity you know thank you for that as well.
spk_0
Thanks for coming on the show.
spk_0
Thanks on my call good day. Thanks for all.