8 | I See You - Episode Artwork
Technology

8 | I See You

In this gripping episode of 'Rotten Apple,' we delve into the harrowing story of Jemima, a young girl whose life was forever altered by an inappropriate relationship with her teacher, Michae...

8 | I See You
8 | I See You
Technology • 0:00 / 0:00

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 9 Podcasts
spk_0 For those of you pressing play on this for the first time, thank you.
spk_0 Rotten Apple is the twin sister to another podcast investigation called The Nurse.
spk_0 If you're interested, search for The Nurse wherever you found this.
spk_0 But a word of warning, both of these investigations deal with some very heavy topics.
spk_0 This episode will feature a special criminal case.
spk_0 It's special because it was the first of its kind in Australia.
spk_0 The word grooming has become part of the lexicon in our understanding of the targeting
spk_0 and abuse of children outside the home.
spk_0 And the possibility of online grooming is a headline feature of child safety education.
spk_0 But what you may not know is that a report from one Tasmanian girl may have started it all.
spk_0 She became a test case for the newly minted telecommunications act of 1997,
spk_0 when Aussie investigators found a criminal charge to apply to an adult in the Wild West of the World Wide Web.
spk_0 It only takes one rotten apple to spoil the bunch.
spk_0 Ever heard that expression?
spk_0 As a journalist, it's something I've heard often.
spk_0 And that pedophiles and sex offenders are just a bad apple.
spk_0 But here's the thing.
spk_0 Fruit grows on a tree, and that tree needs all the right conditions to thrive.
spk_0 I'm Camille Bianchi, and I've been working with my friend and colleague, Amelia Saw,
spk_0 on an investigation into some powerful people who took that power and abused it.
spk_0 We're in Tasmania, the little island off the bottom of the big island that is Australia,
spk_0 and Tazzi is known as the Apple Isle.
spk_0 Now, it's time to find the worst fruit of the bunch.
spk_0 And take down the whole tree.
spk_0 I eventually confessed to him that I had a crush on him,
spk_0 and his email back to me was his confession that he had won on me too.
spk_0 And that's where it got really inappropriate.
spk_0 The human brain is said to keep developing from infancy until age 25.
spk_0 There are proven biological factors at play, significant ones,
spk_0 that cause our child and teenage brains to send us signals to maybe be impulsive,
spk_0 or to form conclusions we don't agree with, or even recognises our own in adulthood.
spk_0 This biological process is one small part of the picture,
spk_0 when children and teens build a view of the world and their place in it.
spk_0 Jemima knows sadness.
spk_0 When she was only tiny, her beloved big sister, 10-year-old Sarah,
spk_0 died from a sudden stroke.
spk_0 The community in Lonsesta in Tasmania's north was devastated.
spk_0 My parents, I just can't get my head around what they went through,
spk_0 and I'm having a child die, and still having other children and having to
spk_0 go all together and live for them as well.
spk_0 It's such a complex thing to happen.
spk_0 This is her mother, Ruth.
spk_0 I isolated myself, became severely depressed,
spk_0 almost unreachable, major depression.
spk_0 The kids used to talk to me and three hours later I would answer them,
spk_0 but I didn't know that three hours had gone.
spk_0 And I just wanted to die.
spk_0 I used to walk around the streets and I used to live on two apples,
spk_0 basically a moxacoffee, lost over 40 kilos, ended up in hospital.
spk_0 Had a wonderful doctor who really supported me.
spk_0 Yeah, it was pretty horrific.
spk_0 The community was wonderful, but with all the will in the world,
spk_0 it was still a way that couldn't be shared, not really.
spk_0 And the way people at church behaved, you'd think grief was contagious.
spk_0 Maybe it was.
spk_0 Here's Ruth again.
spk_0 They just couldn't cope with my grief.
spk_0 If I started telling people they would say yes, you told me,
spk_0 or at least you have two other children, or at least she didn't die of cancer,
spk_0 or I understand because my dog died and I really loved my dog.
spk_0 I just, I understood their lack of ability,
spk_0 but it didn't do anything for me, it exhausted me.
spk_0 And that's when I stopped and started walking around the street.
spk_0 The family moved forward with a collective limp.
spk_0 Grief did impact everyone and there just wasn't the emotional capacity
spk_0 to put me first in any sense.
spk_0 And that doesn't happen normally.
spk_0 Normally families have that capacity.
spk_0 It's, but grief takes such a toll.
spk_0 There was, I wouldn't use the word neglect because I did everything they could,
spk_0 but they just didn't have the capacity to meet my developmental needs at that time
spk_0 with that amount of grief.
spk_0 And so any attention that I was shown at school,
spk_0 my other half of my life, I, I lapped it up, I really needed it and I thrived on it.
spk_0 By 1999, when Jemima was 12, a relief teacher came to her classroom.
spk_0 And for Jemima, that's exactly what he was.
spk_0 A relief, a little bit of light.
spk_0 Soon, life as she knew it would change.
spk_0 His name was Michael.
spk_0 There wasn't anything I could pull him up for.
spk_0 I would say actually it was almost, it was perfect.
spk_0 He was just really lovely and really excited by the work I produced and made me feel
spk_0 really good, like none of the other teachers were.
spk_0 And he, after the two weeks was up, he stayed on at the school teaching a couple of days week.
spk_0 And I'd seen him in the corridor and we'd stop and we'd chat.
spk_0 Then my parents took me to the UK for a month because my cousins have moved over there.
spk_0 And when I came back, he had an interesting photography and he really wanted to see all my photos.
spk_0 It was just a constant source of positive validation.
spk_0 And it came to the end of the year and we had our grade six graduation ceremony.
spk_0 And he didn't need to be there, but he came to see us all graduate.
spk_0 And at the end of it, he sought me out.
spk_0 So we could say, I'll goodbyes.
spk_0 And I just kind of said off the cuff, you know, it's a shame we can't keep in contact.
spk_0 And he agreed and a couple of hours later I was back in my classroom and he came in and handed me
spk_0 a note with his address written on it. An invitation to keep in touch.
spk_0 And that's how that started.
spk_0 The note was fine, according to Ruth, with boundaries.
spk_0 The pair could be pen pals, but only if Ruth could review the letters.
spk_0 They were only a couple of exchanges.
spk_0 Or so she thought, Michael, the 24-year-old relief teacher scored a post at the Hutchins School
spk_0 in Hobart in the year 2000. He'd been teaching Jemima's class at a long-sessed in high school
spk_0 and was making the move two and a half hours south to the capital.
spk_0 He had left the scene of the crime.
spk_0 Only you can't really do that when the crime is online.
spk_0 Yes, by that point, the letters exchanged with Jemima had become emails.
spk_0 She told me that she, that he'd had a baby and she was all excited about it.
spk_0 And I said, how do you know? And she said, because he told me, but you haven't had an email.
spk_0 And she said, he emailed me. And I said, well, I told you that he wasn't allowed to do that.
spk_0 I said, I'd like to have his phone number and speak within place.
spk_0 Which I did. And I explained to him that I, in part of my practice, I did a lot of,
spk_0 um, employee assistance program work. And I did a lot with the education department and how that
spk_0 teacher, I worked with teachers have been accused of doing bad things to kids. And he was
spk_0 trading a very dangerous line there that I didn't mind him writing to her.
spk_0 But under no circumstances was he to continue to email her.
spk_0 It's a few months after that conversation. And Jemima is at the library to use the dial-up
spk_0 internet connection. It is slow. She's typing in her password.
spk_0 Arc Angel. It's her name for him. Arc Angel.
spk_0 I eventually confessed to him that I had a crush on him. And his email back to me was his
spk_0 confession that he had one on me too. And that's where it got really inappropriate. He used
spk_0 names with me all the time. It started out as Jem, Jemmy, Jemelito. And then it progressed to
spk_0 sweetie and babe. And again, no one else called me those things. So that made me feel really
spk_0 special. The way that he signed off, it was most commonly love, M. Or it would be love,
spk_0 me, which I remember thinking, you know, I've never seen someone sign off love, me.
spk_0 It was almost a plea for me to love him, rather than from him.
spk_0 They communicated via music lyrics. Jemima would use the cranberries. Michael would recite
spk_0 Savage Garden. She would listen to their music and feel like she was communicating with him.
spk_0 Michael got bold. He gave Jemima his phone number at Hutchins school.
spk_0 This was well before the day's mobile phones. I think my mom had one, but it was a brick,
spk_0 and it was for work only. I used to walk up the road and use the pay phone and I'd call him.
spk_0 I remember Michael had told me it was actually quite embarrassing for him because the secretary had
spk_0 played to him. I think perhaps I'd left a message on the answering machine and the person had
spk_0 then played that to Michael and he'd been embarrassed and not been able to explain it well and had
spk_0 asked me after that to try and sound more natural on the phone. I know that while he was emailing me
spk_0 on a number of occasions, he was actually sat at his desk with his computer in front of him in
spk_0 front of the class he was teaching. Jemima and I have been in touch for years and have recorded
spk_0 a collection of interviews over that time. I'd left it for many years, but the death of the perpetrator
spk_0 kind of sparked everything off. Through it all, she's had some wins. The emails her teacher,
spk_0 Michael, sent to her are classed as child abuse material. And for years, Jemima had to fight to see
spk_0 them herself. Until one day, she was sent them. It was a light bulb moment. I could see what a
spk_0 complete piece of scummy was, frankly. Yeah, it severed the emotional attachment I've had since I was
spk_0 a child. He went on to tell me again how I was a breath of fresh air and that he still cared for me
spk_0 and how our relationship would never be at risk and that I deserved some of my own age. And that made
spk_0 me angry. I thought, no way. I deserved him as an adult rooting through this. Obviously, he's
spk_0 cheating on his wife. He's cheating on this, um, supposed other friend. I mean, if we even
spk_0 forget that that I was a child, that, um, manipulative, it's false. The emails are coy. It reads as though
spk_0 he was dancing back and forth around the idea of sex and relationships to draw responses from Jemima
spk_0 that he would find gratifying. We were so on and off, um, push me pull you. It was, he was just
spk_0 gushing when you adoring off me one instant and then the next instant, he would say that he'd just
spk_0 arrived home and was expecting his wife to be packing his bags because he'd been visiting his friend
spk_0 who was female. Now she's seen the emails as an adult. Jemima's questions are answered. Her
spk_0 biggest question has finally been answered. Reading through the emails, I can, I can say straight
spk_0 away. No, he didn't, he didn't love me. I meant nothing to him. I gave him thrills.
spk_0 I made him feel good about himself. He, he was aroused by my responses and he was curious as to
spk_0 what would happen when he poked me different ways. What happened was that she began to withdraw
spk_0 from her family, her real life. By late 2000, Michael was insisting he was devoted,
spk_0 musing about what would happen if Jemima became his real girlfriend. It was an idea that thrilled
spk_0 and scared her as a 13-year-old. I was embarrassed to even walk through my small hometown.
spk_0 I'd stay at home most of the time except for when I use the library to email. One day, at the end
spk_0 of the year, Jemima's mum was sorting laundry alone. And she found some torn up pieces of paper
spk_0 in my pocket. And my mother loves jigsaws. She hadn't thought anything of it other than
spk_0 why is this torn up and in her pocket? Because of what's rubbish, surely it would just be thrown away
spk_0 and not kept in the pocket. And why would you need to tear it up unless it was something you were
spk_0 protecting? Jemima was writing to a friend at school, detailing plans to travel to Melbourne.
spk_0 Here's her mother Ruth again. She'd gone to a youth group and asked me to wash her jeans.
spk_0 And I did what any mum does because they were her favourite pair. She went and left them.
spk_0 So I went through the pockets and there was this torn up paper and I just didn't really think about
spk_0 it, but it puzzled me because I thought, is it rubbish or isn't it? It's torn up so she
spk_0 doesn't want it but she hasn't thrown it away. Why? So I pieced it together and it was a note
spk_0 where she'd been writing to the friend next to her saying, I love him, he's going to take me to Melbourne.
spk_0 I'm pretty sure it was a teacher and it was just where this girl was writing back to her.
spk_0 And I didn't say anything to Jemima. She was away for the weekend but I said to Adam who was four
spk_0 years older and at that time we didn't have internet at home. They used to go across and up the road
spk_0 to the community centre and access the computers there. And he went and managed to find her
spk_0 password being that much older and knowing her very well. Arc Angel.
spk_0 Got into it and found these emails about this teacher who had propositioned her and had sex
spk_0 with her on the internet and even bits that said, but isn't this illegal, you're 12 years older than me
spk_0 and him saying, if we don't tell anyone it's okay, delete the emails and of course she didn't
spk_0 because this was a diary that just kept talking to her and telling her all this amazing stuff and
spk_0 she felt loved. That was the beginning of the end. I was absolutely totally disgusted and
spk_0 angry. I was working as part of my practice with a child protection. I had spent some time in a
spk_0 sexual assault service and I just knew exactly. Ruth was a mandatory reporter, a social worker,
spk_0 a mum and there was no doubt as to what would happen next.
spk_0 The principal kept ringing me up. You know when I first went to him and said, this is what's
spk_0 happened. This is what I found over the holidays. She's distraught. We're beside ourselves and he
spk_0 said to me, well, you work at child protection, really you're the best place to do something.
spk_0 So that was shitty of the school principal, but the family handled it. Ruth went to the police.
spk_0 I got in touch with the police and it was three months later the federal police got in touch with me.
spk_0 In the late 90s the internet was still a new frontier, cowboy country and this was their jurisdiction
spk_0 and said that it had taken them that long to try and find a law to put it under because at that time
spk_0 there were no laws. The only law that they could find, she was the first case in Australia
spk_0 for being interfered with on the internet and it was improper use of the Telecommunications Act.
spk_0 The Telecommunications Act had only just been written into law by 1999 at the time of the
spk_0 offences, which were child exploitation via the email's Michael sent to Jemima.
spk_0 He was arrested at the Hutchins schools end of Yebar Bacchew in late 2000.
spk_0 He wasn't allowed to teach again and I didn't cope well at all. I had no support. It was just over.
spk_0 It was like a missing person. We'd had this intense deep relationship and suddenly he was gone and
spk_0 there was nothing. Jemima's diary entries from the time are heartbreaking. Here she is as an adult
spk_0 reading them. Dear Michael, do you forgive me? I still love you. I mistreated you. I should have
spk_0 stopped you too. I wish you could have come up. I want to see you. Scrub that. I shouldn't ride
spk_0 as much as I want to. diary entry dated 8th of the 6th 2001. Mum just told me on Wednesday that
spk_0 when Michael changed his claded guilty he'd said something like guilty but she let me on or guilty.
spk_0 But she encouraged me and makes me for angry towards him. On the 19th of July 2001,
spk_0 Michael the teacher was convicted and sentenced to five months jail time for improper use of a telecommunication service.
spk_0 Back at her home in Lonseston, months later Jemima was still offline, pouring her soul once more into her diary.
spk_0 Diary entry dated 5th of the 8th 2001. I asked Mum if I could look through the case file in Hobart
spk_0 when we go down in September. She said no when I am an adult. My final diary entry was dated
spk_0 27th of the 12th 2001. I don't like writing and hearing it anymore. In fact, I hate it. There are
spk_0 too many secrets that I want to write and can't for fear of them being found and it's too dangerous
spk_0 to even hint. I found a letter I'd written to Michael but never sent. I don't want the responsibility
spk_0 of having to write and keep secrets. This is it. I've had enough. It was painful while it was
spk_0 happening but it also felt really really great and it was tragic when it stopped because I no longer
spk_0 had those good brain chemicals happening and to be told that it was wrong and it was actually harmful
spk_0 to me and then to see the harm play out and realize it to be true. I was expected to get over it
spk_0 and move on. Everyone was very understanding to begin with when they found out what had happened
spk_0 and then were supportive but of course the court case doesn't just happen in a night. It
spk_0 went on for a full year and at each stage the trauma would come up and I would be emotionally
spk_0 overwhelmed and things at school would trigger it. I went to an English class that was a grade
spk_0 above mine and outside of that class the girls in that class would bully me. So being in that class
spk_0 could be a trigger just seeing unfriendly people but content of classes, romantic,
spk_0 Romeo and Juliet and conversations between other school kids that were sexualised, all sorts of
spk_0 things would trigger me and I just needed to cry a lot and I think the adults in the environment
spk_0 simply got sick of it. They expected some improvement in me but there was no improvement that
spk_0 could be made when it was so constant. By this time Jemima was a teen and had been marked as
spk_0 trouble at her long-seston school. I had emotions that I couldn't handle and they were spilling
spk_0 out everywhere and it was on my shoulders to get myself together because I felt pathetic
spk_0 because I wasn't normal like every other kid in the school and that it was constantly pointed
spk_0 out to me that I was not coping and it felt like it was my fault all that time. Then she met
spk_0 another teacher. Within a short time she says she was being groomed and abused again. This time
spk_0 physically. I felt like I was in control. I was making the decisions and he didn't try and mess with
spk_0 my head. I said to him a couple of times I love you and he didn't reply so I knew that that meant
spk_0 that he didn't love me. He liked me but he didn't love me but at least he wasn't going to lie to
spk_0 me that he loved me and he said to me at one point you're not going to grow up and decide this was
spk_0 abuse and it all come back and bite me are you. I said yeah and that's subconsciously always
spk_0 kept me silent about it. I've always protected him because I agreed to that.
spk_0 Until now. Her first abuse and Michael died by suicide in 2019. She believes for most of his life
spk_0 nobody knew what he'd done to her. In 2020 she visited the site where his ashes were scattered.
spk_0 It was complex. There was so much. When I first learned of his death I was camping by myself
spk_0 for the first time in Mount William National Park and I was the only one there. I had an entire
spk_0 beach to myself and very poor internet access but having just discovered that he had died
spk_0 I felt a profound sense of loss and then I felt an intense anger
spk_0 because while he'd been alive there was there had never been any sort of closure ending
spk_0 finality of it for me. It was he had been prosecuted. He'd served whatever sentence was given him
spk_0 and that gave me nothing. When he died none of that mattered anymore none of that counted.
spk_0 I didn't have to keep silent. I didn't have to worry about the impacts of my actions on his life
spk_0 which is really ironic because he never worried about his impacts on my life. I had a moment
spk_0 naturally the other day that it occurred to me that I think I'm all way is going to struggle
spk_0 with these issues and triggers. It's not something that's ever going to go away no matter how much I
spk_0 work on it. I would have loved my life to be so much simpler and not have to worry about that
spk_0 but it impacts on all my relationships. I've just gone I was going to say back to dating but
spk_0 really it's my first proper period of dating I've ever had and to do it at age 36 is surreal.
spk_0 Well that's been one of the consequences of everything that's happened. Now Jemima is in control.
spk_0 She has power and she is poised for great change. I don't know what it's going to look like
spk_0 but I think there there's a lot of improvement that's going to happen in my life. The one thing that I
spk_0 really want is for it to be known that Michael Lurdy-Key abused me as a child
spk_0 because that's that's my story and it's it's his story too.
spk_0 There are so many stories like Jemima's. There are so many victim survivors who have spent decades
spk_0 reckoning with what happened to them as children and it is difficult to see the past few years
spk_0 in Tasmania as anything but that are reckoning into the issue of child sexual abuse.
spk_0 Throughout this series we've taken you on a journey through time around Tasmania the beautiful
spk_0 island below the mainland of Australia. We've been trying to get to the bottom of how so many
spk_0 children could have been hurt and how nobody seemingly stepped in. The thing is children can't be
spk_0 expected to advocate for themselves when they're not even sure what will happen when they do.
spk_0 Like Azra, a foster child living among police officers. It's really complicated because like again
spk_0 it comes back to that mindset of not being believed. And Peter, who was molested by Jervis Holloway.
spk_0 I guess culturally as well coming from ethnic background I mean that sort of stuff I guess also
spk_0 at the time we talked in here the early 70s wasn't often discussed and I wasn't very experienced
spk_0 in life being 12 years old and a form of communication and we're certainly no education at school
spk_0 about that sort of thing not even much sex education to be quite frank as well having
spk_0 having gone to a private school. Then there's Lee who did report his abuser to police and learned
spk_0 to fear the people who were meant to protect him. A young constable took the statement I was
spk_0 saying I got a bit of a touch up there put in the police car and taken up the
spk_0 uncession George and ended up with a very severely broken arm because still struggle wasn't
spk_0 told what had happened to the fires on the surface they heard anymore. We call them survivors because
spk_0 so many don't like Kevin and Gareth. That mongrel person you know we know it's what he did
spk_0 so we know who but we've been trying to work out how and there are many facets to the answer.
spk_0 Alliances David Stewart could get pulled over and he'd be the one saying don't you know who I am
spk_0 he used to have some police officers come in one would head straight to his office and the
spk_0 thing about that office is there was a light over the door if it was off you could go in but if
spk_0 it was red nobody was allowed to knock or go inside protection of upstanding institutions and people
spk_0 Penny Grace's mum found that out when she and her daughter Grace tame tried to get to the bottom
spk_0 of who knew what about the teacher that abused Grace at school. So at that point when we originally
spk_0 took civil action we thought that the school was just as shocked as we were that he did this and
spk_0 that it was a big surprise for everybody it wasn't until a few years later quite some years later
spk_0 that we found out that actually the school knew all about him and had known all about him all
spk_0 then there's the culture of a town a state an institution like Tasmania police in
spk_0 Biagon decades an institution that threw a police funeral for a top officer under investigation
spk_0 for child sex offenses it's something Tasmania Greens leader Rosalie Woodruff has questioned in
spk_0 parliament how unknown pedophile could have been given a public funeral a police funeral with
spk_0 eulogies all bells and whistles for a person who was actively under investigation with material
spk_0 available of his some abuses to young children over years and years then there's that dark law
spk_0 that muddied the waters being gay was criminalized until 1997 in Tasmania it was the last state in
spk_0 Australia to uphold that law so when you call someone a sex offender until 1997 in Tazzi that might
spk_0 have meant someone who was gay which made investigation of historical offenses highly complicated and
spk_0 fraught aside from the terrible impact the conflation of being gay and hurting children has
spk_0 historically had on the LGBTQ community then there's plain old bribery i've heard much about one
spk_0 method that pedophiles and institutions that have protected them have used in Tasmania what I
spk_0 ineligently call a 20 grand fuck off fee where an adult abuses a child or teen and pays them off
spk_0 usually with some desperately needed money and in doing so gives their victim the impression they
spk_0 can never say a word like they've been bought like whatever amount is valid compensation
spk_0 a lot of these amounts were just done as hush money
spk_0 kirsten nasa is an abuse law clerk with shine lawyers a massive Aussie legal firm that deals with
spk_0 many different claims including child sexual abuse all over Australia in Tasmania they get a lot
spk_0 of cases related to the Catholic and Anglican churches kirsten recognizes this situation from many
spk_0 victim survivors claims it's obvious that these people were pressured or bullied into accepting
spk_0 amounts that really were conducive with the damages that they should expect to receive even then
spk_0 my direct message would be it's a very David and Goliath situation you know you've got
spk_0 this organization that doesn't frankly pay taxes with expensive lawyers attempting to bully and
spk_0 silence any victims from coming forward from fear of losing their homes or losing any livelihood
spk_0 that they've managed to get together despite their difficulties throughout the years with these
spk_0 injuries and my message would be don't let the bastards get you down keep on the good fight
spk_0 no matter what anyone has told you don't believe that taking money means you don't have a right
spk_0 to justice if you sign something or took a bit of cash from someone who hurt you or even an
spk_0 institution that does not mean a criminal act is absolved you can reach out to a lawyer or a
spk_0 support service like Laurel House if you're in tazie ditto if you've signed an NDA a non-disclosure
spk_0 agreement i think what people are remembering is these deeds of releases or the NDA is actually
spk_0 negotiable you don't have to sign that you don't have to hold yourself to that commitment if there's
spk_0 room to negotiate and there's certainly been a lot of noise around this issue i would certainly say
spk_0 if you sign a confidentiality clause go and speak to a lawyer go and speak to them about what the
spk_0 terms of it mean let us see what we can do to help you if you'd no longer want to be done by that
spk_0 clause because there is a change in the tides of the way that the legislation is written and the
spk_0 way that these cases are dealt with it is important to say these issues are by and large Australian
spk_0 and global issues around child sexual abuse but there's no denying there's a unique situation
spk_0 that has emerged in tazmania with seemingly larger numbers of professionals appearing in clusters
spk_0 it's a pattern seen in professions which offer authority and access there have been 22 complaints
spk_0 sexual abuse by tazmania police officers from 2000 to 2022 149 education department employees
spk_0 mainly teachers between the 1960s and 2020 as we've already heard from professor Michael Solter
spk_0 what we have had i think in tazmania is an unusual level of visibility and scrutiny of that
spk_0 including the ways in which these men have entered into the public service into law enforcement
spk_0 in our interposition of authority in such a way that there is a critical mass then of victims
spk_0 another factor vulnerability we touched on the claims by witnesses that a group of men in
spk_0 Hobart were targeting children in care homes through the 80s 90s and noughties there is well documented
spk_0 evidence that was a phenomenon that began as far back as the 1960s in tazie out of home care is the
spk_0 broad name given to the system that housed orphans and children without guardians they've lived in
spk_0 group homes foster placements and boarding houses in the 60s and 70s some would even be sent to
spk_0 Ashley boys home that later became Ashley youth detention center and there is one particular
spk_0 story i've heard many times most recently from david it's about his father he didn't want to speak
spk_0 on mike but said he's comfortable with his son sharing what happened he was in boys homes
spk_0 juvenile detention center since he was from about the age of 11 it's totally was old enough to go to
spk_0 wrist and prison down here and he told me a story about being farmed out on a weekend to a priest
spk_0 because what happened was he got sent to this priest house for a you know weekend release kind
spk_0 of thing was supposed to you know they said it was like um you know to get him ready to be going
spk_0 home to be released and all this other stuff but it was when he was about 12 and he was a big 12
spk_0 year and he could fight so this priest said this priest got him to go up a ladder to change a light bulb
spk_0 and tried to put his hand up dad's shorts so dad just jumped down and passed the sheet out of him and
spk_0 he was never sent on one of these weekends ever again so and then he's talked to other former inmates
spk_0 who are wards of the states you know that got payouts and stuff um compensation payouts and stuff
spk_0 that have said you know there was a pedophile ring band running out of the boys home that was the
spk_0 1960s a rumored pedophile ring in the boys homes why were children being sent from places like
spk_0 Ashley boys home to adults on weekends and coming back with stories of being molested we know
spk_0 this story isn't an outlier in Tasmania virtually identical ones have been told before
spk_0 victim survivor and advocate Walter Tusson blew the whistle on this practice in 2003 he'd been
spk_0 placed into the care of a pedophile when he was a little boy in the 60s these guy came took
spk_0 Walter home from where he'd been placed by the government at Wibrah Hall a group home for children
spk_0 without parents and when Walter tried to report this abuse in 1961 to the superintendent of Wibrah Hall
spk_0 well here's a snippet on that from ABC's state line program in 2003 and I indicated that
spk_0 he did things with me that hurt and he just didn't want me to go on any further and say any more
spk_0 Mr Beemesh says he doesn't recall any reports of Walter being abused adding have the issue been raised
spk_0 it would have been one for the department and not for Wibrah boys home there's no evidence on
spk_0 Walter's case file of the incident being taken anywhere when Long was interviewed and his
spk_0 identification was established the report states Long did not try to defend himself he even asked
spk_0 whether the boy could remain another week with him Walter was never medically examined or counseled
spk_0 for decades we've heard stories in Tasmania about men who would come and pluck a kid from a
spk_0 boys home like a toy from a claw machine abuse them and drop them back at which point nobody seemingly
spk_0 gave a shit what they said happened to them these cases have been looked at individually as class
spk_0 actions and in whole of government compensation schemes but it seems like nobody's asked the question
spk_0 about how it even happened we've learned some things about the profile of men not always men but
spk_0 overwhelmingly so who molest children since taking her abuse at a court grace tame has become an
spk_0 advocate speaker and runs the grace tame foundation which has lobbied for crucial law reform in
spk_0 this space here's her take on who commits these offenses and why one of the key
spk_0 revelatory elements of the University of New South Wales recent study of child sexual offending
spk_0 behaviors and attitudes among Australian men that painted a portrait of the typical offender base
spk_0 the the cohort of offenders who have offended against children but may not explicitly declare that
spk_0 they have sexual feelings towards children which indicates that they offend for other reasons
spk_0 and it doesn't have it doesn't necessarily have to do with sexual interest it could be entitlement
spk_0 power misogyny or a combination of factors it may be sexual gratification but it doesn't have a
spk_0 boundary it doesn't have a particular orientation other than towards people or children who are
spk_0 less able to fight back their powerless and that's the attraction is the powerlessness and also in
spk_0 the case of children the liability to mimic the offender and self-incriminate which further helps an offender
spk_0 cover their tracks because they can they can apportion blame to their victim as is their playbook
spk_0 that research was led by UNSW Professor Michael Solter who we've heard a bit from in this series
spk_0 he believes Tasmania is a particularly tough place for victim survivors and witnesses to report
spk_0 predators a lot of pressure is brought to bear on victims and survivors because everybody knows
spk_0 the offenders but of course in these small communities the risk is the offenders know each other
spk_0 as well and so it can become a kind of child sexual abuse in those communities can become
spk_0 something of a runaway train because offenders get to know one another there can be a kind of a
spk_0 quid pro quo circumstance that they establish where they're sharing information about children with
spk_0 one another meanwhile offenders sorry victims are under a lot of pressure not to talk because they
spk_0 know that their parents know the offenders and they know you know the offenders will often be
spk_0 fairly respectable people in their communities and something that we see with some sex offenders is
spk_0 that you know they will actively seek positions of community trust partly I think to provide them
spk_0 with more access to children and just more ability to manage potential exposure I think also with
spk_0 some offenders what we see is they're trying to offset the bad things that they do by these good
spk_0 public works where they might be really charitable they might be really generous they might be really
spk_0 kind in some aspects of their life and I think internally there's kind of a calculus which is like well
spk_0 okay well yes I'm abusing children over here but I'm a good person over here that becomes a really
spk_0 very disorientating environment for victimised kids as a society we've relied on and continue to
spk_0 rely upon whistleblowers to protect children and speak truth to power these brave people who saw
spk_0 something and said something have done so at an immense cost their well-being from Scott Goldsmith
spk_0 the athletics coach at the track in Hobart who saw something disturbing one night that was the
spk_0 night that I went home and made one phone call to discover that the guy shouldn't even be at the track
spk_0 to Steve Fisher a victim survivor who set up a hotline to catch a predator or two people were
spk_0 incredible and the stats that we found out were incredible there are so many more brave people
spk_0 and stories but they've been outnumbered by those who saw something and did nothing a colonial court
spk_0 heard in 2022 it was an open secret high-ranking police officer Paul Reynolds had inappropriate
spk_0 behavior around children his colleagues didn't investigate the issue when it became a rumor at
spk_0 the police academy bar that was until junior colleague Will Smith did what nobody else would
spk_0 let's remember a senior colleague in Tasmania police also had his back he just backs me in
spk_0 and just said listen this is the right thing to do and none of that matters um he said that he asked
spk_0 if I wanted to to put my name to it and I said that I didn't I said I was happy to have provided
spk_0 the information and he he decided that he would put his name on the report and I would go in as an
spk_0 anonymous uh as an anonymous entry in the wash of revelations of people who abused their power to hurt
spk_0 the most vulnerable remember the whistleblowers there are a large number of Tasmanians Australians
spk_0 people all over the world many of them victim survivors who have been magnificent in this space
spk_0 we need to strengthen laws that protect them support whistleblowers raise them up as a society
spk_0 make speaking out the easiest option not the most difficult.
spk_0 At times there's a view that people that speak up just in general about things
spk_0 there's a view that um you know those people might be seeking attention or seeking the opportunity
spk_0 to try manipulate the story to benefit them they may be the perception that um you know you're trying to
spk_0 use the opportunity to promote yourself I don't know just feel like I've tried to do the right
spk_0 thing and I've been caught up in something I don't want to be caught up in.
spk_0 We need to report all crimes to the police we need to say thank you to Tasmanian's victim
spk_0 survivors of child sexual abuse for the immense heavy burden they've carried especially in the past
spk_0 four years a gruelling march towards safety for future generations this has been rotten Apple
spk_0 thank you for joining us over the past eight episodes go well
spk_0 if you have any tips info or just want to say hi email the nurse podcast at protonmail.com
spk_0 and if this episode raised any issues with you and you'd like support please contact brave
spk_0 hearts the national child sexual assault charity you can ring 1-800-272-831 and you can
spk_0 receive support in Tasmania from Laurel House with 24 hour support available on 1-800-697-877
spk_0 if you're struggling you can also ring lifeline on 13-11-14 all these details in the notes
spk_0 overseas listeners search online for your nearest support service that is help
spk_0 this podcast series is a joint production with investigative journalist Amelia Saw and me
spk_0 Camille Bianchi the executive producer is Delphortum and our senior producer is Hannah Sterling
spk_0 with sound design by the nine podcasts team