76. Dave Theune & Doing Comedy On Your Own Terms

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the improv obsession podcast. I'm your host, even Pearl Stein

spk_0 today on the show. We've got Dave Tuney. Why am I talking so quietly? You may be wondering

spk_0 to yourself right now because you're an astute listener and you realize this is a quiet voice.

spk_0 Well, it's very late and they recorded this podcast last week. And I'm like debating really whether

spk_0 or not to put a tough online. And ultimately, I think it's a really good episode. And if nothing

spk_0 else, I just enjoy talking to Dave. So I'm going to put it up. I'm going to put it up.

spk_0 Maybe don't listen to it. I don't know. But Dave and I do get into some good stuff about

spk_0 using your straight manning skills and improv. And we also talk about just doing comedy on your own

spk_0 terms, which I think is something that a lot of improvisers and comedians spend more time

spk_0 thinking about as they progress in the art. And yeah, I think that's it. I hope you guys enjoy

spk_0 this episode. And without further delay, here is Dave Tuney. But also maybe, maybe don't listen.

spk_0 Especially if you're involved in the theater of UCB in any way. Okay, here we go.

spk_0 The end of session podcast.

spk_0 It's the end of session podcast.

spk_0 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the improv obsession podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Pearl Steinah

spk_0 today on the show. We've got a great guest. Dave Tuney, Dave, thanks for coming. Bye.

spk_0 Hello. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You improv fans out there may know Dave from

spk_0 Bangerang from sassy bluff from mid-best. You're on a mod team for a long time. And I was

spk_0 racking my brain and it's been a while. And I can't remember what it was. Bonafide. Yes,

spk_0 I was like, it's a good mod team. It was like one of the good ones. We all like, like,

spk_0 bonafide, retired, got like graduated or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were together for like four,

spk_0 like, we were on Harold and our mod night for like four or five years. Yeah.

spk_0 Long run. Yeah, it was a long run. That's good. Yeah. It was good. It was ready to be done.

spk_0 Yeah, I feel like that's how most people feel about doing, it seems like sketch or mod night for

spk_0 a while. You're like, it's really good. And then you're like, but I got it. Yeah, yeah. I got

spk_0 everything I could get out of this. For sure. Absolutely. And then also, you know, people

spk_0 who are not in the LA improv community, they might know Dave from, you know, 1000 commercials.

spk_0 It's been on Jimmy Kimmel live, Brooklyn 9.9. And I was delighted to see you in Michael

spk_0 Bolton's big sexy Valentine Day special. Like that came up on Netflix this year. And I just

spk_0 watched it. I was like, Oh, Dave, great. Yeah. What a weird thing that was. Wasn't it? It was so

spk_0 weird and great. I loved it. I loved it. I thought there was so many funny bits in there. Yeah,

spk_0 they did. They also did an April Fool's Day special. I think that was this year. Oh, really?

spk_0 Yeah. Where it was, it was just, oh, will our net. And like the bit was like Netflix live. And

spk_0 it was just like, it was streaming things from around the world, like a microwave or whatever.

spk_0 And will our net commentating on it? Like, so just be like looking at a microwave.

spk_0 And he just talked for four minutes while like a burrito gets a microwave. It's very funny.

spk_0 That sounds very like because the Michael Bolton one was like a lowly island. Yeah.

spk_0 County bang bang route. That feels very much like the same. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure it had to

spk_0 have been because it was, yeah, I felt very similar in tone and just crazy and silly. Yeah. Yeah,

spk_0 super good. But anyway, we're not here to talk about Netflix specials today. Absolutely not.

spk_0 No, today, I mean, as all my goal is always to just try to help the people listening figure out

spk_0 how to be the greatest improvisers. They can possibly be like the idols that they have on the show.

spk_0 That is you today. Oh my god. So we won't start too lofty. Great. But I will by the end of it,

spk_0 I expect to know how to be at least as good. If not better than you. Great. Okay. We're

spk_0 setting the bar low. So that's good. That's good. Before we get into too much, if you don't mind me

spk_0 asking you a couple of questions. Great. But up to that. Is that how you want me to go?

spk_0 We're not immediately. Yeah. I love getting the script lift on me. Yeah. Just throw all my yeah,

spk_0 go go for it. Okay. Okay. I'm so excited and terrified. No, because this is I've listened to

spk_0 I've been listening to your podcast and I've listened to all of your podcasts of 2016.

spk_0 And all of them that you put out so far this year. Yeah. All right. And I think I have two basic

spk_0 questions. And I think they maybe they maybe related. They may not be. Okay. And you don't

spk_0 have to answer these if you don't want to. So before 2016, there was a gap. Yeah. Of 2015.

spk_0 Right. Yeah. And then so prior to that, 2014 was your last one. Yes. Jen Krueger, I think,

spk_0 was your last one. That sounds right. Yeah. And then you went to Wilhines. That's right.

spk_0 Great podcast by the way. Those have all been great. I really like them.

spk_0 We talk more about some of the ones I like. That's what I want this to be about.

spk_0 I just podcast. So that like do you remember who in Tara said that one thing?

spk_0 But I'm curious to know. And you do another podcast couple. Yeah. Right. You do a couple

spk_0 other podcasts and you work. So I'm curious to know because prior to that, you're pretty regular.

spk_0 I'm putting out the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Probably not regular enough. But yes.

spk_0 Very regular. Yeah. Right. Then there's that little bit of a gap. Is that I mean,

spk_0 you're just getting too busy, which is totally understandable. Or is that relate to the episodes

spk_0 that I found very interesting ones with Billy Merritt ones with Farley Elliott. Yeah. We talk

spk_0 about whether or not you want to continue with them. Probably. Yeah. Is that a result? Was that

spk_0 break a result of some of that? And then and then the subsequent like breaks between putting out

spk_0 episodes. And then also like if you don't have to answer this. No, no, that's okay. Where you feel

spk_0 like you are now I find this very interesting. Okay. So I'll dish on all of this. Great.

spk_0 Because this is all stuff that I'll just tell you. And then I'm going to put a little marker

spk_0 here and maybe decide later if I want to cut this all. Please. Yes. Please. So what happened was

spk_0 man, so I've been doing improv for forever. Yes. It feels like since 2010. And

spk_0 you start taking classes 2010. Yeah. I think 2010. Yeah. Maybe it might have

spk_0 yeah. I'm pretty confident it's 2010. And that your first class I forget. Was that at Second

spk_0 City? Or is that here? Here? It's here in Cordero. UCB. Yeah. We are in currently in UCB. Yeah.

spk_0 This is Franklin. Right. Yeah. We make this very interesting. It's interesting. But there's so much in

spk_0 the past. Yeah. You started you in classes about a year after I did. Okay. So I started in

spk_0 the beginning of 2009. Really? No. That can't be right. Why don't you want banger at? Wait. No,

spk_0 no. You were on Delicateson. Yeah. I moved out in January of 2009. When did you get on Delicateson?

spk_0 I remember you on I think those teams got formed like in December of 09. Okay. Yeah. And then

spk_0 then maybe they started performing that year or something. Yeah. That's probably so I must have

spk_0 because I think I started in like May 2010 or something like that Eugene Cordero. Actually, I might

spk_0 just I started before that was sketch. So it was like Nick Wiger. It's so actually no. The first

spk_0 thing was like May 2010 Nick Wiger then Deer Kiss for sketch. And then I was like, I mean, that

spk_0 gas all seemed with this improv. Yeah. It seems like they're all having fun. I'll try it. And then

spk_0 I'm like, I love it. This is the bad. Yes. You were like in the early days of I mean, this I think

spk_0 I'm maybe I'm wrong with this. No, in the early days of sketch. I feel like when they were still

spk_0 only having like one or two levels. Yeah. I'm figuring it out. So yeah, they only had they only had

spk_0 two levels. And they would also do like these occasional like advanced study type things for sketch.

spk_0 Like we had one with John Reynolds who was writing for late night here. The whole thing about

spk_0 writing for late night, which was so great. And but even at that time, well, whatever, I'm not

spk_0 here to dissect this sketch program. But so the whole thing is, you know, I the first couple years,

spk_0 I was eligible for Harold auditions. I didn't do it. First year I was in with class with like

spk_0 Ryan Rosenberg and Jason James Masteryani. And those were like, those are those were my first 401

spk_0 so great. And I was qualified to audition. And I remember thinking like these guys are so good.

spk_0 Like just get out of their way, man, you're not even close. And then the second year I qualified,

spk_0 I still basically felt that way. But I was like, I happened to be out of town. And I was like,

spk_0 I was a little disappointed. Yeah. And so then the third year I qualified to audition for Harold

spk_0 night. I did it. And I did it really. I did solid, like really good. I was very proud of myself.

spk_0 And I got my call back. And then I just froze from the pressure. And I was like terrified.

spk_0 It's hard. And then the year after that, I did it. I had a really good audition too. I felt like

spk_0 I had a really good audition. I was like, great. So now's your chance to not freeze in the call back.

spk_0 And then I didn't get a call back. And I was so confused by that. Because I was like, I thought I

spk_0 did really good. Yeah. And what happened? Somebody. So this is where this is the part where it's like,

spk_0 this is the stuff I'm not supposed to talk about. And maybe isn't true. Who knows? But I heard

spk_0 through the grapevine partially why that happened was because of an argument I got into with Johnny

spk_0 Swartzbine about game on this podcast. And I was like, game silly. Like the way you're talking about

spk_0 game is silly. And the interpretation of that or the conversation in this like audition room was

spk_0 like Stephen doesn't like game. So maybe that thing. And we need to worry about. And I was like,

spk_0 well, that wasn't the point of that conversation. It was to tease out to defend it better than I

spk_0 thought Johnny was doing at the time, which actually looking back, I think I'm fine with it. But

spk_0 that just kind of goes back and said episode because you two are so passionate about improv you and

spk_0 Johnny. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I gotta go back on the whole the whole conversation was he was just

spk_0 like, if you see a move that's like an obvious layup, do you do it or not? And I was like, no,

spk_0 like that's not improvising. That's too easy. Like try to I for me, it's more like I'm like,

spk_0 I wanted him, I guess I'm more like explore more and find an organic move as opposed to

spk_0 force an organic or force a move. Yep. That's always how I felt. But whatever. That's how I

spk_0 interpreted. I'm sure that's not really what was happening. And we just weren't communicating right

spk_0 because it's improv and stupid. And then and then once and then a year after that, I think I

spk_0 auditioned and then I heard another person Harold Camigaw, like just stop doing the podcast.

spk_0 Like this is hurting you in the room. Like just stop. And I was like, okay, I'll take a break.

spk_0 And so then I took a break and then I'd still got nothing. And I was like, I mean, fuck what am I

spk_0 doing? And so the truth. So now I'm at this point in improv where I am not as close to as good as I

spk_0 once was at it because I was so busy doing it. And I did a lot of shows. I practiced a lot. Yep.

spk_0 And I also don't know if I have the energy in a way to ever get as good as I once was at it.

spk_0 And I'm still fine. But like, yeah, I'm like, I'm serviceable now, which is like kind of depressing.

spk_0 But I think that's where I'm at. And so, uh, so yeah, I think that's where I'm at with it is like

spk_0 I kind of care less about doing stuff on it. Like I really part of me really wishes I

spk_0 could have played things slightly differently or just had like the energy and like not a fiance.

spk_0 And the house and like bills to pay to like, you know, whatever. If I could do all that, like, oh,

spk_0 yeah, I'd maybe invest more in improv. But now you're busy having a well-rounded life. That's what you're

spk_0 doing. You're probably having a life that I'm trying. You know, you know, well, I mean, the thing is

spk_0 too is like the other part of it. I think that's the truth of it is like I got and I started at UCB

spk_0 because I just wanted to work on my writing. And I stopped doing that for like three years to in

spk_0 the middle of all this improv stuff. So I was like, Oh, yeah, do the writing thing that you actually

spk_0 like and care about. So I've actually just kind of been redoubling my efforts. All my nerdy improv

spk_0 comedy efforts have just really shifted over to like writing TV pilots and stuff.

spk_0 Oh, to the profitable side of it. Yeah, yeah. Or you can make a living. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 I don't know about that move, but, uh, hey, I don't either. You know, I want like I've,

spk_0 I was talking about this. I have a writing partner, uh, Ross Brand and he's really, really great

spk_0 writer, really funny guy. Um, and I was like, I wonder what's harder actually? Is it, is it

spk_0 getting on a UCB team or is it being sick set like getting a writing job? Like I really want to know

spk_0 because I've had a handful of writing jobs. I made five figures from like writing for TV. And I'm

spk_0 like, I still can't get a fucking UCB. Not for the life of me. I can put every effort I have and I

spk_0 can't do it. I feel like you're doing the harder thing. And that is like, and I guess it's different

spk_0 for everybody. But like you just writing like, do you get, do you write most days? No.

spk_0 No, I, no, I'm not going to lot. I'm not going to like, I wish I did. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not

spk_0 very good at the habit of it. But I will say that I am good at when I'm like, okay, do it. Like,

spk_0 I'd sit down and I write for a long time and I get a lot done. Yeah. I think I'm, if nothing

spk_0 else, I'm fairly efficient with it. I think it's a harder thing. I think you, I think you are

spk_0 succeeding at the harder of the two in my, in my eyes. So I think that's great. Yeah. But we've

spk_0 gotten writing jobs. Yeah. And you're, and you're doubling down those efforts. It feels like that's

spk_0 ultimately the, the, I think the payoff is far bigger. Let's hope. Let's hope. Yeah. But yeah. So

spk_0 yeah. And then I think, I think I kind of, I think I answered your question of like, how you feel

spk_0 about it today? I like improv too. That's the other thing too. Because I like it. Like I saw a class

spk_0 go up. I'm in a class right now. I have it tonight. And I'm just like, yeah, that'll be fun.

spk_0 Like I like doing improv. It really, really do. Yeah. But there's also a part of me that's like

spk_0 sad and heartbroken about it all the time too. Because I do think in another episode that I recently

spk_0 did James Bachman about the state of Indie improv. I like the conversation that I was having with

spk_0 Billy and Farley and whatever. It was just like, yeah, I don't know. Sort of like Indie improv.

spk_0 Sorta doesn't feel great in a lot of ways in some ways. Not a lot, but something like. Well,

spk_0 you said, first of that James episode was super fun to listen to. And I was thinking about it. Like,

spk_0 he was great. He was great. And I was listening to it thinking like, how do we fix

spk_0 if there's if Indie improv is not working as well, how do we fix it? And I thought, well, whatever

spk_0 idea I come up, I don't think I'm green. It's smart enough to come up with an idea. Because I feel

spk_0 like whatever I, if I come up with an idea, yeah, I feel like that already would have been come up

spk_0 with prior to it. I don't know if I'll be able to ever crack that. But then you were, so I like that

spk_0 episode. And then the next episode with Mike McClendon, which is great. He's great. Yeah. I like

spk_0 him a ton. Yeah. I know he's a good friend of mine and we improvise a ton together. And I've

spk_0 never like been taught by him. But I like I don't well enough that I'm like, oh, you're and I've

spk_0 heard enough about him from other people like, oh, you're a great coach, you're a great teacher.

spk_0 Yeah. And like him and then, um, uh, um, oh, my God, Jake Chabor. Yeah. Like,

spk_0 having two, yeah, people who are teachers in real life are like, oh, yeah, of course, you're a great

spk_0 coach for improv and whatever you're going to get into. Of course. Yeah. That helped every time,

spk_0 every talking to Jake about, uh, coaching. I was like, this guy is great. Yeah. No idea. I've

spk_0 never been coached by him. I have no, but I'm like, he's great. He's got it. Oh, I love this. I love

spk_0 listening to it. It was really great. That's what the thing that you were talking about with Mike

spk_0 about the indie scene, um, like, and he brought this up. And I think you kind of agreed with it.

spk_0 Like, oh, did we just did it just we, do we just like not outgrow it? But like, um, it serves its

spk_0 purpose. I think for a certain select group of people, yeah, when you're new out here to get into

spk_0 the scene, when you're getting your feet wet, right. But is it like once you like started doing this

spk_0 longer, like you have, and like I have, and like I can't do it either. Like I think you and I were

spk_0 both doing it at the same time, which was, um, going to a ton of indie shows doing as many indie

spk_0 shows as we could as much as we could as hard as we could. Yeah. In like that 2009, 10, 11, yeah,

spk_0 12, yeah, maybe 13, 14, yeah, it's only been too long, but it lasted a bit. Yeah. But like, at some

spk_0 point, we can't keep that up. I don't think anyone can. I don't think we're supposed to.

spk_0 Well, the thing what the thing is, I think, I think ultimately what it is is it's a bubble. Like,

spk_0 and that's I think the best way to describe it. Yeah. Is there's like a billion shows yet there's

spk_0 not enough room at the top of it. Yeah. You know, Harold Knight, even past Harold Knight, there's not

spk_0 as much room in a way. Like, there was a lot of influx towards the graduated from Harold Knight.

spk_0 Ever since the sunset opened to so like, even that, like, it's just, it's tight. It's tight.

spk_0 Whereas at the bottom, there's the bottom half being like Indian classes and stuff. There's like

spk_0 a billion people and so many 400,000 shows so many. And yeah, it's like so trying to navigate through

spk_0 that is like the efforts field, disproportional, towards any reward. Whereas like, you know, when you

spk_0 said, like you said, what you need to do it, 2009, 10, 11, 12, maybe 13, there's only a handful of

spk_0 shows. It's actually relatively small at that time. Yeah. You could only go to three nights a week

spk_0 at the most. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely when I started it was there was like three. Yeah.

spk_0 And I was also I felt like I had a secret advantage because I knew about like an improv jam

spk_0 on the at the West Side comedy theater on a Thursday night. Oh, man. You said you're doing it.

spk_0 Like when where was I mean, I know where that is, but I like, oh, that was a thing. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Exactly. No, nobody knew. Nobody went, but I was like, I mean, I'm willing to drive. I care

spk_0 but yeah, there was a time when that it was hard to do it. If you really cared, it actually

spk_0 sort of made sense to drive to the West. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When when I moved out here from Milwaukee,

spk_0 where I was doing, um, as I read a job and I was doing comedy sports. Yeah. Uh, I did, I did,

spk_0 I did improv in Chicago for a little bit. And I can remember going to Chicago one for my,

spk_0 my team in Chicago, my Harold team at IO, uh, they invited my friend, Mike and I who were living

spk_0 in Milwaukee. And they're like, come now, we're going to do this show at this bar. And there's no

spk_0 pay. Mm hmm. It's just a show where like a bunch of groups get up. Great. It's an indie show.

spk_0 Yeah. Which I could not fathom at the time because for me, there was only like shows on a main

spk_0 stage and a comedy sports in Milwaukee. We got paid every time. Yeah. And so like we did this bar

spk_0 show. It was fun. But I was also like, what is this and why are we doing this? And then I moved out

spk_0 to LA and I met, uh, uh, for those of, for those of your listeners who are like coming from a

spk_0 way smaller scene than LA. Yeah. Like I was in Milwaukee. Like I couldn't believe that there were

spk_0 these indie shows and the people were going to them. And like the first one I think I went to

spk_0 was TNT when it was at the Sarah, Sarah Bonita stage. Yeah. Uh, this like garbage little stage,

spk_0 right? Yeah. Uh, but I was like, what is this and what's going on? And I, and I, and then there

spk_0 was like people going to it and no one's getting paid. We're just doing it. I'm like, all right,

spk_0 I guess this is what I'm doing. Yeah. But I was floored. There was even a small indie scene there.

spk_0 And it was like eye opening and it was so exciting at the time. Yeah. It was for you when you

spk_0 were first like getting into it. Yeah. I like renewed my love for improv in a whole new way. I was

spk_0 so enamored with it again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was like it. I mean, it was definitely

spk_0 yeah. The idea of like, I mean, yeah, at the time, the idea of putting together your own team

spk_0 was exciting. And like, because you could like practice and maybe find ways to get up at UCB

spk_0 because they used to have let's do this. I believe it. Right. That was like, that was like,

spk_0 I felt like that was the pinnacle of indie shows. That was, yeah. Once you got to do like,

spk_0 let's do this. You'd like brag to everybody like, no, you have to come. Like I'm performing at UCB.

spk_0 You don't get it. It was awesome. It was very exciting. Uh, but yeah, like the prospect of doing

spk_0 shows was like much smaller and much more exciting. And that's why even too, like, jams were super

spk_0 exciting because yeah, I'd go was it was cool. I'd go to Tuesday night thunder, get to watch like

spk_0 three hours of improv when that was like very appealing to me. Yeah. And then I'd get to do the

spk_0 little at the end. And it'd be crazy and stupid. But like, yeah, I think I did like one good move

spk_0 in that weird. That's a minute. You took that one moment away. I mean, too, me too. And I've been

spk_0 doing improv for a long time before that. And I wonder if like for you, um, uh, one thing I feel

spk_0 like I had an advantage with is, um, I did improv for eight years before a mood hotel. Yeah.

spk_0 Right. I was doing it a lot. A lot. But by the end of that eight years, like I was like, I got

spk_0 a, I'm getting tired of this. Yeah. And I love comedy sports. Um, but I'm like, I'm getting

spk_0 tired of comedy sports. I was doing this midnight show, which was like a late night R rated show.

spk_0 Still pretty much like short form, but we were doing like R it stuff. You could say swear. We

spk_0 could say swears. And the audience loves it. Um, uh, but at the end of it, I was like, oh, boy,

spk_0 I'm, I'm kind of burning out here. I'm burning out. Mm-hmm. And then I got to like switch the

spk_0 two different scene, which is L.A. And then it was like, it felt fresh and new. And I like,

spk_0 I wonder if that is a thing for not only you, but like for other people too, we're like, we're

spk_0 just in that same scene all the time. Like, yeah, we just needed new place to go. Yeah,

spk_0 there's so many places to go here now. L.A. Right. But like, we're still all going to the clubhouse.

spk_0 Yeah. You know, yeah. Um, so I wonder there's like that thing of that fatigue that sets in just

spk_0 by being in the same place at the same time, just like being like, hey, I got, I got to

spk_0 move to a different apartment. Yeah. You know, I got to switch jobs upward. I think that's

spk_0 probably true to some extent. Like that, uh, yeah, at a while, it, for a while, it does sort of

spk_0 feel, uh, monotonous. And, but even even like even in a way, again, that goes to like, there's,

spk_0 there's maybe too much going on. Mm-hmm. It's because even if you go like, like, I hate to be,

spk_0 I'm not trying to like indict any indie shows with this type of thought or whatever. But like,

spk_0 even when it's like, oh, there's a new show and we're doing it different and you go to it. And

spk_0 you're like, oh, yeah, like, it's sort of just like this other shit. Like there's nothing,

spk_0 there's literally nothing I've seen. I feel like in the past few years of like, uh, we're doing

spk_0 different things at the, you know, an indie show or whatever, like this is all the same. No,

spk_0 this is not exciting to me. And so it does sort of feel monotonous and it does hard to like reboot

spk_0 in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's going to be, and I think I, like, when you guys

spk_0 talked to you and James talked about the indie scene and whatever. And I'm, and, and both of us

spk_0 would agree that we're like so thankful for the indie scene. And it was like, it's huge. Yeah.

spk_0 It was a huge deal. Good in that stage time. Yes. And just getting your feet wet in relatively

spk_0 low stakes pressure situation. Yes. Which has its plus and minuses. But like, it is hard to come up with

spk_0 those new things. And so much of it is all the same. Uh, it just packaged different ways. I can

spk_0 remember when I, um, I first heard and saw a grab it water. Mm hmm. And, uh, people love grab it

spk_0 water. It's a great show. Right. I think it's, that's not an argument. I think it's a really good

spk_0 show. And I like that format a lot. But, uh, I can remember people being like, one person's on

spk_0 script and then other person's not. And like, oh my god, they just have to stick to the script,

spk_0 other process, improvise with whatever they're saying. And it's so fun to see that back and forth.

spk_0 And I can just remember thinking like, oh, I mean, like, pick a play. Yeah. Short form game. I've

spk_0 been doing for the last eight years. Oh, yeah. That's nothing. You just have a, you just have,

spk_0 but you're just doing it for a longer, yeah, time than three minutes and with bigger names. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. That's so funny. But there's so many shows out that, uh, and I, I feel like there's a hook.

spk_0 There's a thing and I, and I, and I think, oh, that's like this short form game that I did. Or

spk_0 it's like this other show that I saw. Yeah. And god bless them. Keep doing it. I'm, and I'm part of

spk_0 those types of shows too, for sure. Um, oh, yeah, we all do that. Yeah. You can argue. There's so

spk_0 many, um, um, internet based shows. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think that, yeah, I think

spk_0 that's sort of what you're saying. Or at least how I'm interpreting it is like you can only get your

spk_0 mind blown by improv so many times. Yeah. And you're like, yep. No, I got it. Like, yeah. And again,

spk_0 not trying to be, uh, be like tough on anyone out there. But like you go, like you go to ending night

spk_0 shows or whatever. And you're like, yep, seeing this. Yeah. I get sick. Yeah. Like when you did,

spk_0 when you spent your three hours at TNT regularly for, you know, a couple of years or like,

spk_0 and then drive, you're like, you know, it takes a lot to like stun you and get you excited. Yeah.

spk_0 You excited. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Uh, in the end, like in the end, I think you just want to see like,

spk_0 what blows your mind is like good improvisers. Right. Good improvisers doing good scenes. Like

spk_0 that's the end. And then a new like face on the scene who you haven't seen with the new point of

spk_0 you. Yeah. But just presenting improv and selling different way. Well, that's why it's always

spk_0 exciting when out of towners, I feel like people who are good from out of town show up like, uh,

spk_0 I mean, one of the first ones I can think of in most obvious, like when Will Hines showed up in a

spk_0 way, he was good. But it was also like, uh, he, yeah, he was just sort of different enough that he

spk_0 came in his own like way. You're like, Oh, great. Or even, uh, oh, God, what Ben Rodgers came in

spk_0 when he joined shitty jobs. I was like, Oh, this is different. This is great. He's so funny.

spk_0 He's so funny. He's so funny. I love watching him and playing with him. He's so great. Every time

spk_0 I'm counting. Yeah. I think it was like a big, that was a fresh air. Yeah. Right. And so, but yeah,

spk_0 but it's hard too. Cause it's like, if you can't, like, it's like, I want somebody to go be good

spk_0 somewhere else for years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I put them to show them your winter polish. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 What an unfair standard that I know. Yeah. It's been a half a decade somewhere else. And then

spk_0 I'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and then those like those hooks that come with it, like, I know we're

spk_0 talking like, we've seen them or whatever, but at the same time, like, uh, what's a show? Cry clips?

spk_0 Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love watching those videos. Yeah. It's a show where they,

spk_0 if you don't know it, it's a show where they show like weird movies, like, like, movies,

spk_0 right, clips that are insane. And they do in the problem off of that. Yeah. Yeah. And there's no

spk_0 show. I can't remember what the name is now where they show weird music videos. Oh, I don't know

spk_0 and I just can't think of the name of it now. Yeah. It's also fun to watch those and then

spk_0 the scenes off it. Like, it's fun as a viewer and fun as an improvised. Like, yeah, we're getting

spk_0 this info in a different way. And we get to see a weird opening or weird clip or a weird way

spk_0 to gather information. Great. Let me see it. This is fun. Yeah. Um, and I definitely find that

spk_0 entertaining. Yeah. Those are super fun. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,

spk_0 it was just talking about weird different fun things. Yeah. We're just talking about what we like.

spk_0 Yeah. But I was off of like, just asking you about where you thought about what you thought

spk_0 of improv and then I was just trying to be in there. No, no, no. Now, now I'm just trying to think

spk_0 if there's any like finer point that needs to be made on it, I mean, I don't know. What do you think?

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. There's an overall like, this is what we call this part of the

spk_0 conference. This is, uh, this is the definitive. Yeah. Plains it off. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like

spk_0 Mike McClennan would have had like a nice tag on this one. Yeah. Uh, but I do feel like

spk_0 for for you. And again, this is not me. Um, um, I'm not trying to summarize everything here. But

spk_0 I very much like, it's very interesting to have listened to you. Have these ups and downs

spk_0 that are in Prove because like, I have these ups and downs with my improv. And I've been at it

spk_0 a long time too. Yeah. Um, and, uh, it doesn't matter. I feel like if you're doing indie shows,

spk_0 UCB shows, second city shows, ground link shows, Acme improv, uh, whatever it is, I feel like we're

spk_0 all having those ups and downs. And I can like, uh, I can think I can think a specific times early

spk_0 in my career. I could think of times in the last, um, three years where that's been happening to me.

spk_0 Yeah. Uh, where I felt good or very bad about my improv. Yeah. Um, and it's like, God, I guess that's,

spk_0 I think that's just the life overall, right? But yeah, definitely in the in the, in the life of an

spk_0 improviser. Yeah. Is that you're only as good as your last show. And there's a constant frustration of

spk_0 um, why haven't I hit this level or this level or this level that I want to hit so badly? Yeah.

spk_0 I don't know when that ever ends. I've, there's very few improvisers that I've talked to. That's

spk_0 all that was maybe the most interesting thing to me from doing this podcast over the years. It's like,

spk_0 there's very few of them that I have talked to who's like, yep, this is all I wanted or need. Uh,

spk_0 that are just feel like cool with it. Uh, yeah. Or like, at least don't express some like

spk_0 reservations. Like I just, yeah, I remember feeling like I was talking to one of the best

spk_0 improvisers in LA and they're like, man, if I could just get like a different show, I think

spk_0 that'd be really great. And I was like, Jesus Christ. I know I would kill for that. But okay,

spk_0 yeah, if you can't be happy, what? Yeah. Hope do we have. But then that's in your right too. Like,

spk_0 it is filled, it is filled with ups and downs. And I think ultimately is like what I, I think

spk_0 ultimate, like I feel it's so defeatist, but I just feel like right now I'm like, oh, I just don't

spk_0 know if I'm ever going to get back to that upspot. I like at that same, like I don't feel, I don't

spk_0 doubt that they're ups and downs, but like I feel like I'm arcing down more because they're even

spk_0 in my ups and downs, I was like practicing more and working more and doing more shows. And now,

spk_0 you know, now it's like, it's hard to get a team who will like want to stick together for the

spk_0 practice. Yeah, yeah. It gets way harder now. It's way harder. And that's when we go with

spk_0 like opportunity. Yeah, unless you're willing to go like a, people who are fresh out of three,

spk_0 one that have that right. That's right. Yeah, too, which I've done that too. And that also feels

spk_0 weird and tough. That's in a different way. Right? You're going to hold it. Yeah. And it's,

spk_0 it's, you feel like a monster, but like I've been in practices and I like I remember like we had

spk_0 like Dan lipper as a coach and somebody, you know, I've been doing advanced for, you know,

spk_0 three years or whatever and somebody goes like, how do you know when to edit? And I was like,

spk_0 what am I doing? What is this? Yeah. And then we had, we talked about it for 20 minutes and it's

spk_0 like, that's not, that's not bad. I guess for anybody, but it is one of those things you're just like,

spk_0 yeah, this is, this is cost of me 15 bucks. What am I doing? Yeah, it gets weird. And it's like,

spk_0 I don't know, it's just, it's a weird spot to be in because you know, like I think if you,

spk_0 it, that's what I think I think that's my ultimate conclusion is like if you hit like this arc

spk_0 after a certain point, like I don't know how many years it is, but if you go so long on it,

spk_0 there's just a point where like, ah, you're going to get in a tough spot where like the people who

spk_0 understands improv at a certain level and who are willing to do it or like that field trink so,

spk_0 so, so, so tiny. Yep. And it's like, you either got to jump up to the next stage,

spk_0 which is a UCB thing where you can kind of collaborate in that world or, or just fade away. Yeah.

spk_0 And it's, it's weird. I know. I'm with you on that. I know that I'm at a point now where if I want to,

spk_0 I'm not practicing regularly anymore. And that doesn't help my improv or anyone on Zimprop.

spk_0 But I know that if I wanted to do that, that would be hard because I know that I would have to,

spk_0 okay, you're gonna have to play with some newer people. Right. And I can do that. I don't have an

spk_0 issue with that necessarily. But like, ideally, you want to play with people you know and they're

spk_0 your friends and you consider your peers or whatever, right? That's right. That's harder. If you don't

spk_0 mind me asking this question, and you may have said in a previous podcast, I just can't think of

spk_0 the answer here. Sure. So you haven't been on a UCB Harold team. That's true. Correct.

spk_0 Were you on a mess all team? No. Okay. No. Did you were you on, were you on or did you have any

spk_0 desire if you weren't on a team at Nurtist or IO or Mission Provable or West Side with the,

spk_0 I think that's what they call right? Yeah. Or Acme or any of those places. Yes. Yeah. I was on a

spk_0 house team there Friday night teams at the improv space for two years. Oh yeah. You know that.

spk_0 And then I was also on an IO West Harold team for a year coach by James Masteryonny. Okay.

spk_0 They kind of like heartbrokenly got broken up. And then I was on a team for like three weeks after

spk_0 that. And then I left it. And then I also got in trouble for doing that over at IO. I'm not

spk_0 like loved in a lot of theaters. I have, I have an unfortunate thing about me where I'm just like,

spk_0 you know what? Like this seems stupid. And I act on that. And people don't like that. If I could

spk_0 give any improv tip out there. It's like all the most pleasant people too. Like I like they get

spk_0 a little, they get more success. I'm like, oh yeah, just do that. That's much easier than just

spk_0 like acting on him. And you're like, this is fucking bullshit. Like I got to get the fuck out of here.

spk_0 Don't don't think this is fucking bullshit and just act on it. I admire, I admire.

spk_0 Part of that I'm like, Stephen, no, but this is part of me that's like I very much admire that

spk_0 that ability to just go, I'm unhappy. This isn't work what I want. I'm getting out of here now.

spk_0 Versus like holding on till it's far too late. Yeah. And then it just like then when it finally does

spk_0 and you're like, God, that should have ended. It's so much longer ago. Yeah. So I give you credit

spk_0 on that. Any time on that first Herald team or the at IO mean, the IO Herald team or the improv space

spk_0 teams. Did you find that fulfilling and enjoyable for sure? Yeah. Yeah. They're both, they're both

spk_0 really great. James Masteryroni, like I said, coached the IO team and he was just, he's

spk_0 incredibly helpful and smart coach. He's got his very specific approach. And I like that. And we

spk_0 got better and you could feel the growth and it goes, I mean, if anything, it's a fucking team.

spk_0 Like you can't not enjoy being on a team. A team that you're paying money and do it. You have to

spk_0 do everybody's got to go. I don't know. Like I really do, you know, I grew up playing team sports,

spk_0 played soccer and baseball and stuff. There's something nice about having that camaraderie. And

spk_0 also too, that's, I think that's what the thing is ultimately kind of goes back to in the

spk_0 indie scene. It's like, yeah, there's no force camaraderie in a way. Like people are very easy.

spk_0 Like, I'll drop it or like, I don't want to do this or I got onto, you know, the UCB team. So no

spk_0 longer working on it. Like that happens all the time. Those teams just pull themselves apart.

spk_0 Just in incredible ways. And I coach a good bit now too. Yeah. And I watch and I, and it's like

spk_0 the saddest thing in the world because I look at teams and I'm like, this team's going to break up.

spk_0 Like I see, I see the guy there going like, I'm better than these people. Or like I see the girl

spk_0 there going like, you know what, I'm really in it for just, I wanted to do this for like auditions

spk_0 and stuff. And like this is going to fall apart. And it breaks my heart a little bit. Yeah.

spk_0 But yeah, you know, I did, I definitely did get satisfaction out of that. And it is nice to just

spk_0 be consistent with it and play and have fun. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. I get that. I get that. I get the

spk_0 desire. And I get the desire of you wanting to do it on the UCB stage because it was like the first

spk_0 place. Yeah. That's like the, yeah, first love, right? Yeah. And I think it, you know, I, I

spk_0 is, I think I still, and my heart of hearts believe that's where the best improv mostly happens to.

spk_0 So there is like a small like, well, I just want to go to, I know that's what I want to do.

spk_0 Right. And that's hard. That's yeah. I don't know. It's arguably the, it's arguably the

spk_0 cool theater. Yeah. With a ton of people. It's a community. So huge. So there's a ton of people

spk_0 who are actively working in the biz. Right. And the business knows the name UCB. Right. They know the

spk_0 name groundlings. Right. And they all everyone knows her no second city. But some of those names.

spk_0 Yeah. Currently in 2017, fall a little bit behind. Yeah. I think you see B for better for

spk_0 words for writer for wrong. Yeah. Exactly. And that's not, yeah. That's again, not really much of an

spk_0 indication about anybody or anything. It's just like, yeah, I don't know. That's just,

spk_0 nobody makes it alluring. Yeah. When I moved out here, I didn't know where to go. Yeah.

spk_0 I didn't, I knew UCB had a TV show at one point. But when I moved out, my friend Eric Price was like,

spk_0 I said, where should I go? I've already done UCB or IO in Chicago. I mean, and I've done comedy

spk_0 sports. And I'll do that stuff out of here. But like, where should I take classes? Yeah. He's like,

spk_0 oh, UCB for sure. Yeah. For sure. And so I was like, okay, because I was taking like groundlings.

spk_0 I've heard of that and people go on there. But so I just got like, I kind of went into that and

spk_0 said, all right, that's what I'll go. Yeah. And I'm super happy with my choice. Well, you did also,

spk_0 you did IO because you were on Orpheus Roy. Yeah. But I never took classes in in LA. Yeah.

spk_0 I went through the program in Chicago. And I was on a team in Chicago years ago. Yeah.

spk_0 Years ago. And then when I moved out here to LA, then I, I have a similar thing with you.

spk_0 And this is I know a little insider baseball. You talk about people that maybe people never heard of.

spk_0 But you said you were in a class of James Masherani in Rosenberg. Yeah. I started doing something

spk_0 on here that they called boot camp, which you know of. Of course. But to me, that was new.

spk_0 And at the time, it was new. And when I started, it's a thing where they meet five days a week,

spk_0 right? Yeah. And at the time, you were doing heralds every single day. Yeah. And you would do

spk_0 it. You would do, you would meet four days a week and do a show on Sundays. Yeah. Friday nights.

spk_0 And I started doing that. I was the first wave. Yeah. But I got into it in like the third of

spk_0 the fourth month that they offered it. And one, that was huge for me. I was like, oh, I get to do

spk_0 heralds every day. That was the like, with the biggest part of me, I think getting on a

spk_0 herald team. But I can remember going in these classes and Ryan Rosenberg and James Masherani.

spk_0 And they had a group called Summer Camp. I think that they're all a part of. Okay. I can't

spk_0 remember who was all on it. Yeah. Um, Mahari was on it. Ryan Mahari. Um, who's on my team. Uh, yeah.

spk_0 Anyways, they were all part of a group. And I just remember like watching them and being like,

spk_0 they first, they seemed like a tight circle. I'm like, well, I'm not going to get into that circle.

spk_0 But I was like, I'm actually, yeah, they're not going to talk to me. I'm not going to talk to them.

spk_0 Probably, I'll just sit back here and do what I'm going to do. But they were like so good. And I

spk_0 remember thinking I was like, oh, they're fun and funny. They're doing well. Um, this is need to

spk_0 watch them. Uh, but then eventually like, kind of crack into their circle a little bit. And then

spk_0 James, uh, because of bootcamp, asked me, he's like, Hey, we're going to do a cage match with these

spk_0 group of guys. Do you want to do it with us? Yeah. He's like, Oh, okay. And that became more of

spk_0 these Roy. Okay. And we did like 40 weeks or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And then they asked

spk_0 us to start doing shows on a weekly basis. Yeah. Um, and then I'd also started there,

spk_0 done something called the execution. Do you remember that? I do. I remember here. I think that stopped

spk_0 close to when I started. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they definitely didn't do it for that long.

spk_0 But I, I was in the second round of that. Yeah. And uh, that gave me a lot of stage time at IO. Yeah.

spk_0 And help get me in there a little bit more to yeah. Along with a long cage match. And with another

spk_0 team I had called Old Milwaukee, which was like 52 or something like that or 60 something or

spk_0 something stupid. Yeah. Um, by then I was like burnt out. Um, but then we got to do. So then

spk_0 that's that's the reason I did shows over there. Not because I took classes, but I had to take classes

spk_0 in Chicago. Right. And then because I had some long cage match runs and other stuff, we were

spk_0 able to do shows there for a good number of years. In fact, we just stopped like a year ago. Yeah.

spk_0 I think yeah. That's right. Yeah. I remember. That was a long ago. Yeah. Uh, that's yeah. That's

spk_0 interesting. And you also did, I think the like the secret, like the secret rumor about you was

spk_0 that you did uh, comedy sports too, right? Yeah. I did comedy sports for my first, I did comedy sports

spk_0 on for my first two years and on and off for the next two years. So I did it for about my first

spk_0 four years out here. Yeah. I did comedy sports because I did it for eight years in Milwaukee. Yeah.

spk_0 And like finding comedy sports was like you, I think I'll equate it to you finding UCB, which is

spk_0 like what is this? This is amazing. Right. Because we all like like who's lines in any way. Yeah.

spk_0 And so like that was my, that was it, that was my everything. Yeah. I had a day job or whatever

spk_0 that I hated. Like comedy sports was my everything. Yeah. Um, and then coming out here, I was

spk_0 doing it on and off. But I think at that time, there was probably a little more disdain for short

spk_0 form, at least amongst certain people. I think that's fair. Yeah. And I think in early, in those days,

spk_0 where we, when I started, I think there was a little more at least amongst the new people and

spk_0 you've talked about this our previous episode. Like the newer people like long form versus short

spk_0 form UCB versus I.O. Yeah. Right. Um, and I was kind of, I was definitely, I had my feet in

spk_0 all of those plays. Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, but that was

spk_0 interesting. To me, it was always interesting about that. And I, I seriously heard this more than a

spk_0 handful of times of like Dave tuning is so good because of short form. And that was, that was

spk_0 very fascinating to me because, and they're like, well, because it's just games. Like you just,

spk_0 it's so, I know it sounds like people are and UCB worry about finding the game so much like they

spk_0 found that you can find the game. You can kind of make a game happen. That's not really the hard part

spk_0 in a lot of ways. We just getting our heads about it so much. And it's like they, they, they know

spk_0 what their games are. They make the choice early ahead. Yeah. Makes it easier. And then they're

spk_0 like, they translate over very well to UCB in a way. Yeah. And that was like, I remember, I remember

spk_0 thinking to myself, I was like, God, do I want to like figure out how to get into comedy sports?

spk_0 Like, do I want to do it? And actually, yeah, I did for, I did a, I did a version of

spk_0 comedy sports. They, it flappers put together an improv team for two months. They did like

spk_0 comedy sports on it. And I was on that and I was like, great. I don't know what I think of it.

spk_0 But fine. Great. It's hard to go from long form to short form. Way easier to go from short form

spk_0 to long form in my opinion. Yeah. I think, I think it's because once you have the freedom of long

spk_0 form of like, I'm going to talk to this audience for a moment at the top and then never again,

spk_0 and then we're just going to kind of do what we do. Yeah. And versus short form, where it's like

spk_0 a constant interaction with the audience and a constant restarting of different scenes and

spk_0 different games. And you have to like, rub that engine every time. Yeah. I think it's harder.

spk_0 I think it's harder to go to that when you've had this different type of freedom that you get

spk_0 in long form. That's interesting. Yeah. I did. It was, it was definitely like a transition to do.

spk_0 But I was like, Oh, like, I remember just thinking like, Oh, I'm bringing something different to

spk_0 this. Yeah. It's not bad. It's not too hard to do. And also, I think there's a world.

spk_0 There's a world of it too that I think short form is a little bit more like vulnerable in a way.

spk_0 Because it does like, it is like, tell a joke now. Like that's some of the games are just like,

spk_0 just do a joke now. Yeah. And you kind of have to be like, I don't know, like the thing that's

spk_0 safe about improv is you don't have like long forms. You don't really have to do that a lot.

spk_0 You never like, tell a joke. Be funny now. And I was like, Oh, I'm okay with this pressure.

spk_0 That doesn't bother me that much. It's just like, it's just again, and I felt like I was just

spk_0 doing like different tools to do this. But yeah, I don't know. We used to say in Milwaukee. I was

spk_0 saying a couple of things about this. And I've talked about this on a different podcast.

spk_0 I was on. So I feel like I'm preaching short form lately. So I'm really going to short form.

spk_0 Or guys, it's the future. But I, when Milwaukee, I remember we take pride. I like

spk_0 comedy sports a lot. And I'm so proud of where I've come from. Yeah. I remember in Milwaukee,

spk_0 like we've kind of pride ourselves on like, Hey, man, we're getting jokes. We're putting jokes

spk_0 out there and generally getting laughs. Like, what they were, what we would say is like something like,

spk_0 like every 15 seconds, right? It's not faster because like it's fast, fast, fast, fast. The game

spk_0 is already built in. The audience already knows what the funny thing is going to be in what they

spk_0 want to see. Yeah. So you're able to get to a way fast. And I think we really delivered, deliver,

spk_0 deliver. That was a help that helped and hurt when I came out to I.O. I'm sorry to UCB. But

spk_0 when I did I own Chicago and then when I did UCB in LA, like I definitely had to like,

spk_0 I had definitely had to hold on to some of those long short form traits, but I definitely had

spk_0 to push some of them to the back. Yeah. To getting too joky. Yeah. To, here's the word I use.

spk_0 It's I think both positive and negative. I think short form is way more presentational. I think

spk_0 we have to constantly interact with the audience and constantly include them. And I'm talking like,

spk_0 you got to get volunteers up all the time. You're having no people who don't know anything about

spk_0 improv. You're having to do it at I can't tell you how many bar mitzvahs I had to do. How many

spk_0 Boy Scout shows I had to do Girl Scout shows. Great. Unlimited. Unlimited numbers of them. So it's

spk_0 constant wrangling, constant like, hey, hey, hey, and you're just like, you're constantly checking

spk_0 with the audience to see if they're liking it or not. Yeah. You'd have a half time of these

spk_0 comedy sports shows where you go backstage and the audience would go like, beer and drinks and

spk_0 food and whatever. And then we'd be like, all right, what's working? What's not working?

spk_0 Yeah. You got to do more audience volunteers start their love in that. We have to do more

spk_0 singing games. We have to do more of this thing or less of this thing. So you're like, the audience

spk_0 was like telling you what to do. We had to listen versus long form where we didn't always,

spk_0 we don't always focus on that as much. Yeah. And so I think something that I could bring to

spk_0 long form with my background, saying, and I think that's something that a lot of short form people

spk_0 do. Someone like Susie Barrett, yeah, I think is great at it because of her background. I think Jim

spk_0 Woods is great at it because of his background, but also they're just like otherworldly, right?

spk_0 But they're able to like gauge like, what does the audience want? What do they need? Do we have to

spk_0 like go out there in the audience? Little more? Do we have to like, even though that's not part of

spk_0 long form? Do we have to like get them involved in some weird way? Is that fun for them? It's fun

spk_0 for us too. Right. But I think there is a presentational aspect of it, an interactive aspect of short

spk_0 form that is not as present in long form that I think is helpful in long form or at least can make

spk_0 you sometimes stand out a little more. Maybe that's something that helped me stand out a little

spk_0 more was it because I had that little bit of a wrinkle in my whatever repertoire or whatever

spk_0 that I could pull out every now and again. Yeah. I buy that. I mean, I always, I've always

spk_0 specifically noted this about a lot of boom Chicago performers. I always feel like you can watch

spk_0 even in their long form kind of react to the audience reacting. Yeah. Like I remember I used to

spk_0 watch the smokes a lot, a lot. I love the smokes. And Jim Woods, I remember thinking like and a lot

spk_0 of we all kind of do this in different ways. But like watch it. He'd like make a move and then like

spk_0 gauge based on the audience reaction. You could kind of feel like, oh, is he going he's leaning

spk_0 into it more or backing away from it a little bit like, oh, they're not down with this. You know,

spk_0 almost everybody's decided to play like somebody who's paraplegic in a chair or whatever. Yeah.

spk_0 And I remember I can't remember the exact context of it. But I remember watching Jim Woods do it

spk_0 like sort of like in a way. And then the audience was like kind of on board. And so we tried to

spk_0 win them over a little bit by the next line. And I'm like, why this is okay. And then they were a

spk_0 little bit more on Barton. He leaned in and made it like kind of meaner to be playing a paraplegic.

spk_0 And I was like, yeah, that's really funny because like that is a hard, you know, that's like a hard

spk_0 needle to thread. And like just kind of being aware of the audience. Yeah. And I just how they're

spk_0 taking it. You know, I think it's, I think, yeah, I think it's a tough needle needle to thread.

spk_0 Right. I think like someone like Adam McCabe who's on my improv team. Yeah. I think he's got a ton

spk_0 of comedy sports background too. He did comedy sports Bakers field. And he, I watch him. And

spk_0 and he, I can feel when he's doing things. I'm like, oh, I know that where that's coming from. I

spk_0 get that background that you have. And like to great success. Yeah. And for the betterment of the show.

spk_0 And for the betterment of the comedy. And it's awesome to watch. And is it necessary? No. But I do

spk_0 think it could be helpful. But you run the risk of like getting too joking. I also have like taught

spk_0 people who are only short form. And I'm like, even if they don't say it, I'm like, oh, you have a

spk_0 short form background. Yeah. And it's negatively affecting you right now. Yeah. You can recognize the

spk_0 I like, I would say like there's a breed of improviser that's not too uncommon, which is I did short

spk_0 from improv in college. Yeah. And I'm just like, you'll watch it and go like, uh, so what training do we?

spk_0 Yes. And you know what they're going to say? Yeah. You know what they've got. Yeah. And then it's like

spk_0 you have to do, okay, one on one. We got to get you through two on one three one and maybe even four

spk_0 or one. Yeah. Or get you some of these indie shows. Or you can just start seeing a lot more shows.

spk_0 Yeah. And not to beat it out of you. That's too harsh of a phrase. But to like, you just need to

spk_0 know what we're doing here. Yeah. You have to kind of give yourself over to that. And that was a

spk_0 tough thing for me to do. Yeah. It takes time to be like a little bit of, I think humility and a

spk_0 little bit of time to be like, Oh, that doesn't work. Even though I know it works. Yeah. It's not working

spk_0 here. Okay. Let me just do what you do. Like the way that you would go to like I owe or improv space.

spk_0 And it's like, yeah, I got to kind of put away some of these things that I think are right. And

spk_0 let me just vary. It's hard to do. It's hard to do. Like you're like, you're going there. And I'm,

spk_0 yeah, I remember having a coach like grill me at the improv space. Like don't do anything funny.

spk_0 Like just repeating that type of thing for like multiple, multiple practices. And I was like,

spk_0 I want to, that's why I want to and you want me to. And that's what everyone wants. Right?

spk_0 And I say that to students to a lot of two. And I'm like, I know you want to be funny. I want that too.

spk_0 We all. Yeah. But we all like, don't be funny. But it's that thing of like, yeah, don't be joking.

spk_0 Right? Yeah. And that's hard to do. Yeah. I think you, well, even whatever. That was like a whole

spk_0 different approach. But yes, I agree with that. The other thing too, I want to say just on why I like

spk_0 short form, or like the book, I just, I boom Chicago or, you know, sports style is to like, I think

spk_0 it actually applies a lot. Um, I think maybe the hardest thing of doing long form game style.

spk_0 People get, do people one get the game? Just audience understand the game. Or why this is funny.

spk_0 Like there's, there's like, you can have it in your head. But if your partner doesn't get it,

spk_0 it doesn't really matter usually. Or if you can have it in your head, and even if your partner gets it,

spk_0 gets it, but the audience, like it comes from the opening I've seen this happen before. Like it comes

spk_0 from the opening and the two people are immediately like locked into the game. But the, it hasn't been

spk_0 communicated to the audience quite right. Yep. So they're not sure what to laugh at. Sort of extract what

spk_0 I'm talking about. But you get, I get a general meaning. Um, I tell, I, that happens not too uncommon.

spk_0 When I coach, I'm like, do you hear that? We didn't, we didn't get that. Like whatever the audience,

spk_0 like you'll say, like people will use a specific and they won't know the audience won't know what it was.

spk_0 I'm like, just listen, what? Cause they're, there's a pause. There's like a baited breath moment.

spk_0 Those moments really are telling you you need to explain more. Or like you'll start to say a game

spk_0 and try to make a move and they won't get it. If you're confident on that game, it's like,

spk_0 the you miss something. You just miss something in the setup. Yeah. That's fine. Just make sure you go back

spk_0 to that and go like really connect it to this is why I'm doing it. And they'll be like, oh, yeah. Okay.

spk_0 And they'll get on board. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little clearer about that. And it's, and like you said,

spk_0 I think sometimes short form can train you how to like be aware of that audience a little bit more.

spk_0 Yeah. And like communicate that a little bit more clearly. Not always, of course. And there's

spk_0 plenty of imporragis who have done no long, no short form in the absolute best. Right? That's

spk_0 what I was. And I also should say like I burnt out on short form. Yeah. And like I haven't done

spk_0 it in a long time. And like I'm like, and I, and even like the last several shows, I'd be like,

spk_0 I don't want to do this rhyming game. I don't want to sing this song. I don't like do this.

spk_0 I don't want to do these accents. Yeah. And I'm like, because that, because that long form of like,

spk_0 I just want to do scenes. Yeah. We find something fun. And maybe we'll sing. Maybe we'll rhyme.

spk_0 I don't want to be forced to do it like this. Yeah. And so like I definitely burnt out on it.

spk_0 Not that there's anything. And that happens to a lot of forms, a lot of things. But as much as I'm

spk_0 like short form, short form, I also like get it. Yeah. People, why people sometimes don't like it.

spk_0 And I get why people burn on it because I burnt out on it. I think the more time you spend doing

spk_0 comedy, the more you want to do it on your own terms. Yeah. And that's, I think maybe even that too,

spk_0 just to go back to something earlier is like, sometimes the hard part of like, you know, playing

spk_0 with people who are fresh out of three of one is like, they don't, they're like, ask like,

spk_0 when to edit. But the other part of it too is like, it's like, oh, our game is bad doctor. And

spk_0 you're like, I don't find bad doctor that money. Like I really don't know. And that's, and whereas like,

spk_0 you know, like to me, sometimes it'll just be very funny, you know, the smallest thing in the

spk_0 world that are like that somebody kind of just half says weird and like that. That's all I want to do.

spk_0 Yeah. And it's like, sometimes that's harder to do. Like you just want to do it more in your

spk_0 terms. I think that's what makes sometimes short form trickiest. Like, all right, go ahead and

spk_0 step out and do a funny voice on to me. They're like, yeah, I'm not a, I'm not your dancing.

spk_0 You're fucking. Yeah. Yeah. But you, I think you really are super accurate on that. Because like,

spk_0 like you can probably a test to this too. Like when we first started doing long form, I can

spk_0 remember saying I'm like, man, eight is the perfect number. Gosh, that's a great number for a

spk_0 herald. Oh, I love it. I bet this is the right number you got. Yeah. You know, for the beach,

spk_0 you know, for the games and this time went on, I'm like, oh, man, seven of us. Oh, this feels good.

spk_0 People's is really nice. Yeah. And then it was like six on like six. This is the best number for a

spk_0 show. I love this. And then it goes on so forth and so forth. And they're like down like a two

spk_0 person set. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Two person set. I just want it to be you, me and one

spk_0 other person. Yeah. It's a most time on stage. I'm the most greedy and the most selfish now. Yeah.

spk_0 To do most of my ideas. And I, so you gravitate toward that. I think that also is like part of like,

spk_0 I don't know if this is always a thing for standup. I don't know if that's really is. But I feel like

spk_0 when you see standups in the beginning of their career, it's a lot like joke, joke, joke, and

spk_0 they're amazing, right? Yeah. But I feel like a lot of standups as they go on through time, they

spk_0 delve more into this storytelling. Yeah. And more and it's like longer form. Right.

spk_0 Kind of like I feel like Mike Bribiglia has gone way more into just long form stories that are

spk_0 also super funny. But you're just like, I just want to kind of talk about what I want to talk about.

spk_0 How I want to talk about it. Yeah. Way I want to talk about it. I think that happens with

spk_0 them probably too. And that's why I think it's harder to go from one of the reasons why it's

spk_0 hard to go from long form to short form. Yeah. It's a short form to long form. Yeah. It's

spk_0 really get connection shackled on a few. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I buy that. Yeah. Wow.

spk_0 Well, I don't think we're going to cover any of this after this. This is really great. Yeah.

spk_0 Okay. Well, now, what did I want to? Oh, yeah. I'm so sorry if I do reel it right away when I was

spk_0 like, Hey, I got some questions for you. No, it's okay. This is again, literally nothing what I was

spk_0 thinking was going to happen today. But I'm ultimately okay with that.

spk_0 Okay. Okay. Okay. I want to just talk to you very, then I guess very briefly about one thing

spk_0 that I think of a lot and like your improv is I think you're like a super funny straight man

spk_0 character. And I think you also too, like you get cast a lot is that maybe that's not right? No,

spk_0 I do. Yeah. You do, right? A ton. And one, I mean, one for the casting part that's just your

spk_0 look in a way. Look, I'm a mustache. I'm an older. Why do the street man is mine? That's your pocket.

spk_0 Yeah. I get that. And I feel like I end up playing that a lot. And I'm like, I've even like,

spk_0 I've done a good bit of sketch. And when I do it, I'm like, just I don't need to be funny. I

spk_0 just I'll be like a frustrated straight man who goes like, is it, are you serious? Like, I'll be

spk_0 that. Yeah. That's me. Yeah. But I want to talk about that because that is actually sort of a tricky

spk_0 thing. And it is it's easy to shut it down and to not like things go progress. So I guess in a,

spk_0 and I don't have like a super brilliant question on that. But like, how do you, Dave, try to one,

spk_0 keep things going and show that frustration and keep it grounded and real, but at the same time,

spk_0 not destroy or, you know, pull apart games. Right. Right. Okay. So a couple of things about that.

spk_0 I think that I feel, you know, and I'm going to give two kind of different things here. One is

spk_0 I definitely play straight man a lot in just like the things that I act in. But also play a straight man

spk_0 a lot in improv scenes. And one of the reasons I think that it happens is because I'm going to,

spk_0 I'll say this. And this is, I think a weakness of mine and a strength of others is like, I could

spk_0 be unusual. And I, and I'll have a great time doing that. But I am, I don't know if I'm a distance

spk_0 runner crazy person. Yes. Right. I relate. I can, I could do it. But I feel like can I sustain it?

spk_0 I don't sustain it as well as say, I'll use another person for my team. I'll use Ryan Mayhary.

spk_0 Yeah. I feel like Ryan Mayhary, the longer you let him be the weirdo, the better he gets, the more he

spk_0 finds, yeah, the funnier it is, the crazier it and more of a monster, he becomes. Yeah. And you

spk_0 just have to like, let him go and just keep on giving it to him. And it only gets better. And

spk_0 that is a quality that I don't think a lot of people have. Yeah. But he can just maintain it.

spk_0 There is a huge heals in rare and special improvisers. Absolutely. And I don't necessarily think I

spk_0 have that. So maybe that's why I can lean toward a straight man a little bit more. Yeah. Because I

spk_0 don't have the endurance that some people have. Sometimes I do, but not always. Yeah.

spk_0 The other thing is I think that for me, a strength of my being a straight man is,

spk_0 I feel like I have a patience in my improv that I gravitate towards because it's something I like

spk_0 to see and I preach it a lot. Like I do like a silent soundtrack with sassy bluff or we just,

spk_0 it's all music, no talking right. And I like being in those silences. I like not saying anything.

spk_0 I like just giving a look and letting it breathe and then going back to some spacework and object

spk_0 work. I think it's fun. I think it's interesting and different. I think it's something a lot of

spk_0 improvisers don't necessarily do a lot of. And I think I just enjoy it. So I think just having

spk_0 that patience helps me a little bit. But as far as like not just like turning it in an argument

spk_0 or pulling it apart, I think there's that basic idea that we've been told a million times. Yeah.

spk_0 Is like I just constantly want to like make sure I love my scene partner. And never lose sight of

spk_0 the fact that no matter who they are, because we've said we've chosen to know each other at the

spk_0 top of the scene and probably like each other at the top of scene. Yeah. I'm going to always try to

spk_0 find a way to love them. And also the two other things about that. I guess love them. I think

spk_0 is what I'm constantly trying to do. Yeah. And the other thing is I'm actively trying to I just

spk_0 want to see me to keep being funny and stay in it. I don't want to leave the scene. I want it to

spk_0 keep being funny. If I'm in a scene with my Harry or Betsy, selfishly, I just want to live there

spk_0 forever with them. Yeah. And if that means me having to like just keep on straight manning them

spk_0 a little bit and try to keep the normalcy going, I will do that because I desperately want to stay

spk_0 there with them. And the other thing I want to try and do is, and I'm not great at this, maybe you're

spk_0 better at this than I am. If I can somehow find ways to set them up to be unusual again, or sometimes

spk_0 point out unusual things about them that they didn't know themselves. Like kind of the idea of

spk_0 gift giving. Yeah. If I can do that, I somehow feel like I'm taking more ownership of the scene,

spk_0 and I'm more invested somehow when I'm pointing these things out. I feel like I've somehow,

spk_0 whether it's true or not, given myself a little bit more control as a character of this world that

spk_0 I'm in, even though I don't have control because the unusual one is like dominating it. Yeah.

spk_0 But if I can find reasons to love them, give them some gifts, maybe even help them point out some

spk_0 usual unusual things. I somehow feel like I'm more invested and have more control. Yeah. And it

spk_0 allows me to not live things, just spiral out and just allows me to not just live in the

spk_0 what are you doing? What's happening? You're crazy. So if I can do those things, I can avoid just

spk_0 saying those things a lot. Yeah. And trust me, I say those things a lot too. Yeah. And I think

spk_0 that's so interesting. You said a lot of stuff there that I super agree with that is, I think

spk_0 harder to do as a straight man. Yeah. And I think a lot like I end up straight manning a lot and

spk_0 I even just go coaching and anything. I'm like, you got to care. You should just all

spk_0 care about everything and everyone. Yeah. Always. I don't think caring has ever been a bad thing

spk_0 in an improv. Never. I don't think it's very easy and common for people to be like, I mean,

spk_0 whatever man, like the stupid or like you know, like, you know, I don't care. Like I recently did a

spk_0 scene and I remember like I was two reporters. One guy, he was typing on an old typewriter,

spk_0 me and working on a computer. I'm like, Hey, man, you're going slow. Like that's just that's the

spk_0 game. Whatever. And I started to get frustrated at him about it. And I was like, well, like this

spk_0 frustration's funny and it's working. But I was like, no, care about him. And it's like, dude,

spk_0 I don't want you to get fired. We've been here for a long time together. We're butts. Like,

spk_0 but they're downsizing constantly. You can't do like then again, that keeps me engaged and not

spk_0 is like walk away and like fuck you or whatever. That caring matters so much in straight manning.

spk_0 And it's not usually the first instinct. Yeah. For sure. So as I care to you, you're finding

spk_0 that way to care, right? Yeah. If you know, that way to care. And it's not my always my first

spk_0 instinct either. Most people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing I'm doing then is like as an

spk_0 improviser, I use this phrase a lot when I'm teaching is the straight man is just putting a spotlight

spk_0 on the unusual person, right? Yes. So that's all we're doing. And that's your that's part of your

spk_0 job is just putting a spotlight on. And as an improviser as Steven's friend in this on this team,

spk_0 when you're being unusual, that's part of my job is like, I'm going to put the spotlight on you.

spk_0 And I want to just be behind that spotlight and smiling and being like, audience, look at him.

spk_0 Yeah. Being so funny right now, I'm just going to try to keep giving them these things and keep

spk_0 the light on him. And I just want to soak it in and enjoy it. Just like when I'm on my team,

spk_0 and I just want to see staying or be staying or want to see Adam be Adam, I want to see Ryan

spk_0 Mary be Ryan Mary. Yeah. And I how do I just keep the spotlight on and be a good teammate. And I

spk_0 know they'll do the same for me at some point. Yeah. Because like, because they're your teammate.

spk_0 There's people who really love you. But if I can just as an improviser put the spotlight on you,

spk_0 I get such a kick out of that. And I know that's like the job part of the job of the straight man,

spk_0 right? Yeah. I like that that spotlight analogy too. I almost think of it too. I tell people this

spk_0 and I think about this a lot is the same sort of thing is like, make sure as a straight man,

spk_0 you're telling your scene partner what's funny or interesting about them or reflecting it back.

spk_0 I'm like, to people who say lines, you'll have like crazy people or big characters go on a little

spk_0 rant. But if you kind of don't focus on the interesting thing or the funny thing or what they're

spk_0 being weird about and let it go, sometimes if you're like me, I'll wobble off course as it was a

spk_0 weird character. Yes. Because I'm not I'm not and one of those like improvisers like you pointed out,

spk_0 like who are locked into weirdness and like can rock it. But if like, somebody goes like, hey,

spk_0 Matt, so wait, you're saying the thing that you believe is this? I'm like, of course, I believe that.

spk_0 And I'm like, good, thank you. Thank you fucking God for saying that because I wouldn't have had it.

spk_0 I wouldn't have had it on my own. Yeah. And so like, yeah, I think that's the other. It's a great

spk_0 value of the straight man is like, you're in a way. Yeah, you're like a guiding light towards him.

spk_0 Like just remember this. This is funny. And yeah, don't like and even that whole like I said,

spk_0 that conversation about Johnny Swartz, it's fine. It doesn't always have to be like, here's the move,

spk_0 do it. But like, you know, sometimes yeah, you do need to do that. And other times is like,

spk_0 they got it. You told them a few times. They know it, whatever. Yeah. Get out of their way. They're

spk_0 like, I don't always have a good game move for the unusual person. Yeah. Sometimes I'm like,

spk_0 just letting them, I'm relying on them to come up with everything. Because I don't have anything.

spk_0 But in those moments, then I'm going back to, then I'm going back to week one of any improv

spk_0 school you go to. And that is like, I just got a yes and this. I just, I don't have anything from

spk_0 to do. But let me just, yes, or let me agree that what he's doing is unusual. Hey, I think what

spk_0 you're doing is crazy right now. And now let me and something. Let me add some information

spk_0 that may be helpful to him or her. It may not. I don't know. Let me just get back to this.

spk_0 All right. We just got to get back to making this cake for the party. All right. I've done like,

spk_0 I'm, we're doing a marble cake. I think it's fun to have the vanilla and the chocolate

spk_0 right there. Yeah. I'm not going to put all the candles on because they're a little sensitive

spk_0 about their age. I mean, just start adding stuff. And hopefully that'll trigger something for

spk_0 them to have a response. Right. I may not, it may not. But if I can just add that, not only

spk_0 does it give them maybe something to respond to my yes anding. But also, I'm just going back

spk_0 to building the world, yeah, having a sense of normalcy in the world so that they can look weird

spk_0 again. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think of that a lot. I mean, you know, again, that, like you said,

spk_0 it goes back to very old improv notes or, you know, yes, or I say, go to the environment or whatever.

spk_0 It's the same thing of like, you just sort of have to create some space for a move to happen

spk_0 again. Yeah. I like, like, you kind of just like, it's almost, I don't know, I don't know,

spk_0 we took a few shots. Let's get like, we let's clear the space. Let's make some space. Let's do

spk_0 some passes. Yes. We'll find it. We'll find a shot. But we got to make the space to do the shot

spk_0 first. Yeah. Instead of just like, instead of just giving, instead of just giving that,

spk_0 if you're using a basketball analogy, instead of just giving that unusual character the ball

spk_0 and just putting the ball there, if you can go, all right, do that again. Yeah. We're going to put

spk_0 you in isolation. We're going to isolate so ball here. We're not going to run any plays. We're

spk_0 not going to do it. Said any picks for you. Yeah. Just kind of do what you did again. I know you got

spk_0 five defenders on you. Don't worry. Good luck. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Set those

spk_0 paths. Yeah. Those plays. Yeah. Give them something to work with. Yeah. I think that's so huge.

spk_0 And then, yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to touch on that to write of it too. You saw a lot of good

spk_0 stuff about straight manning. But the other part too is I love having control of a scene in a way.

spk_0 And I don't mean like, I need to guide it. But I think all caring and a scene allows you to help

spk_0 steer it. Yeah. Whereas if you're a character who's disinvited, like really uninvested in the scene,

spk_0 I've seen something like, I've seen a scene somebody go like, I don't like just, I don't know why I

spk_0 married. You're possible to deal with it. Like, just stop caring. And it's like, great. You're

spk_0 basically checked out. You have no reason to help or guide or play or do anything fun of yourself

spk_0 or whatever. You're out. Like done. You got it. Like, I love, I or the same thing, you know,

spk_0 choose to know, right? We always hear that. If you don't know stuff, if you're not aware of it,

spk_0 if you're not, then again, it's hard for you to guide the scene to be a player to help them do

spk_0 stuff. Like I need those things in the scene. I need to be able to do things. I hate it when I

spk_0 like don't know anything and I don't give a fuck. And every now and then I'll make that choice.

spk_0 Or like, I don't care. And I'm like, why don't I care? And you could feel the scene like getting

spk_0 away from you right away and you're smarter and you're in the audience is like kind of checking

spk_0 out because you checked up. You have me that's hard. Yeah. It's hard. I like that you said you need

spk_0 to feel like a sense of control. I know we're getting running along here. So I won't go

spk_0 along into this. But I watch like I've listed your podcast. I've seen you in provides and

spk_0 and I can see there's some sense of like that. And I wish and I feel like you could exert. I feel

spk_0 like you are good at exerting some level of control in scenes. Of course, all scenes are in

spk_0 probably they get away from some time time or whatever. Yeah. Sometimes I wish I had that because

spk_0 sometimes I am not sometimes this is how it felt about me and probably all my whole career. I feel

spk_0 like it's a constant fly by the seat of my pants for 16 years now where it's like like you know how

spk_0 some people and I think you've talked about this in podcasts. And I feel like I feel like this

spk_0 Nick Mandernock who's a good and provides you here. Yeah. I feel like this is Will Hines. He's like

spk_0 a column of thinking man's and provider. Or maybe it's a writer's and provider.

spk_0 Where like you can kind of see a move or two ahead. Yeah. Three moves ahead. You can see where this goes.

spk_0 Maybe I can do that. Yeah. But I also feel like I can never do that. I feel like it's a constant.

spk_0 I feel like I it's a constant. I blinders on and I go towards going and I'm just like on it. Yeah.

spk_0 And so the fact that you like say you want to look control. I'm like, yeah, this seems right.

spk_0 And I wish I could do that a little bit more. I would love that. But it's a it's a roller coaster

spk_0 for me from the beginning to end. I feel like they're both double edge swords. I think. Yeah. I

spk_0 think so. You're right. There's a you know, I remember Billy way back when I think it was in my

spk_0 first 401 with all those guys. Yeah. It was like I was like, oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That move is

spk_0 right. But you skipped like four moves that you should have done to get there. And I was like,

spk_0 yeah, but like we know what it was. Right. And Billy's like, no, I don't think we all did.

spk_0 Why do that? And that's a thing that sometimes I do struggle with as I do think like this is too

spk_0 fucking obvious. Like, we'll talk talks about like just do like as a second move of the scene,

spk_0 it should be almost a lateral move. You don't really need to heighten just like lock it in. Like

spk_0 first unusual thing and then do something unusual again. That's not bigger. That's just like,

spk_0 it's just about the same. And I'm like, no, no, no, I want to go to about the fourth move.

spk_0 Yeah. I got it. Like whatever. I don't fucking care. But then on the same token, you do that.

spk_0 Or if you're set with playing with somebody who doesn't think like that there or like isn't

spk_0 as locked in as you feel like it is obvious to everybody, they're like, what the fuck are you doing?

spk_0 And then on the same, you know, and then I don't then I get lost. And I'm like, wait, what?

spk_0 I'm scared. Yeah. But then I think the same thing you're talking about, like that can be a gift in

spk_0 its own way. Because it's like, yeah, you just play the move that's in front of you and make it's

spk_0 there. Make it there. Yeah. Then the other side, I'm sure it gets frustrating when you're like,

spk_0 why can't I help plan this a little bit? Yeah. Like, why can't I guys? I don't know. What I play

spk_0 with, when I play with, there's an improviser here, you know, Casey Fey. Yeah. And I feel like

spk_0 Casey's great. He's awesome. He's a good teacher. He's a good performer. And I almost feel like I

spk_0 need to apologize and at two of them, like after every show, especially if it's a two person.

spk_0 Because I'm like, I know you can in your mind kind of map this out and you have that. And I know

spk_0 you have to deal with me in this show. So I'm sorry. But it's just going to be kind of a,

spk_0 so funny. It's going to be off the rails here a little bit.

spk_0 For a worse. Oh, that's the funniest thing in the world to me.

spk_0 Well, I don't know. I still think it's super great. I think I can need that.

spk_0 All right. Well, I'm going to do a quick speed round. Cool.

spk_0 And then you're, I guess I'll try to rapid fire the questions. You don't have to necessarily

spk_0 wrap it up. Fire the answers. And then we'll end it.

spk_0 Common bad habits and improv. Cool. So common bad habits are things I don't like to necessarily

spk_0 see in it. One is, I'm going to give them maybe two of them. Cool. One is getting meta in scenes.

spk_0 I think that, and I've done it. I've been in groups that don't have a million times.

spk_0 I've done it a million times. But as I've gone over the years now, I feel like when people like

spk_0 call out the improv scenes going, we have a half hour scene and doing, we're having it.

spk_0 And suddenly I'm like, Steven and I call you by a real name. What are you doing right now? The

spk_0 rest of us are trying to do this scene. Yeah. Right. And now we like break that fourth wall.

spk_0 Yeah. That could, I, that could definitely get a lap. And I've seen it get tons of laps. Yeah.

spk_0 But I feel like you've now broken the illusion of the show. Right. And I think it's hard to get back

spk_0 on track. And I think it's even hard to sustain that scene for any length of time. Yeah. I feel like

spk_0 also it can feel like and look like you're throwing that person under the bus in a way.

spk_0 Because they're not, because I don't know how they react. I've been in these two. I'm like,

spk_0 I'm not sure how you want me to react. Do you want me to react as me, Dave Tuney? Yeah.

spk_0 Or do you want me to act, do you want me to be acting right now? Like this is a scene still. Yeah.

spk_0 I don't know how to play those scenes very well. And I don't know if they ever look that great.

spk_0 And so when that happens, I'm like, all right, guys.

spk_0 Good luck getting this back on track. And something they definitely can.

spk_0 Some, yeah. That is a tight rope to walk. I think so. Yeah.

spk_0 And it could be super funny because it's so different. And we're in the audience is like,

spk_0 they're being themselves. Yeah. But I think it could be hard to get back into it. Yeah.

spk_0 It's true. Yeah. You have to really, I've only had it ever happen maybe successfully one or two

spk_0 times. And it's like you really, really, really have to redouble your efforts to like

spk_0 establish a reality or whatever. Like you got to be like, no, no, we're still good.

spk_0 Everything's fine. We can still do this. But it's fucking hard. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. The second thing I was going to say real quick. The second thing is is, I'm a laugher in shows.

spk_0 I laugh a ton too much. It's a problem I have. And I've always had it. I don't want it, but I have it.

spk_0 I laugh a lot at what other people are saying. I definitely find joy in the show or whatever.

spk_0 But I'm definitely laughing at my teammates when they're doing funny things. I don't want to be,

spk_0 but I can't help it sometimes. I got to like shield my face. But one thing I don't think that I do.

spk_0 And maybe I do it. If I look back, I may do this all the time. But one thing I don't think I do

spk_0 is I don't think I laugh when I'm delivering my lines. I'm not, I think I'm laughing at the absurdity

spk_0 of the situation or the thing that my teammate is specifically doing that I can't keep it together.

spk_0 It's cracking me up. But I don't necessarily like it when I see people laughing at the lines that

spk_0 they're saying to other people. Because I'm like, I just don't know if that's just it looks

spk_0 to me, it looks weird to me when you're like laughing at your own lines. That's fair. Yeah.

spk_0 But more so, I think it takes the power away from the line you're delivering. And it makes me,

spk_0 takes me out of it. Yeah. So if you're angry or upset or happy, like try to deliver the line

spk_0 with being on your voice. Yeah.

spk_0 Giving it just like a normal read without that laughing tone, whatever that sounds like when you're

spk_0 laughing, talking. If I'm responding, laughing, hopefully it's only because I just can't keep

spk_0 it in because you're so funny. And it's telling me. But like, hopefully that's the other thing.

spk_0 That's the thing is like just when you're delivering a line, try not to be laughing on your own line.

spk_0 Yeah. Because I think it sounds weird and it takes me as an audience out of it. And I think I just

spk_0 think you're losing last. I think you're losing power. And I think it's only it's only for the better

spk_0 moment if you can avoid that. Yeah. For your own scene, for your own lines. Yeah. I think you'll

spk_0 be better off with your show and you'll get more laughs if you can avoid that. I super agree with that.

spk_0 That's a problem that I do have to sometimes. Like, and I fully admit it and I hate it every time I do

spk_0 it. But I'm like, every now and then I'll like surprise myself with a line. Yes. And it's so,

spk_0 I just tickle myself. Like, I can't believe you said, like, I remember one that's coming to my

spk_0 head right away as somebody at like, we were, we were all playing girls or whatever. I said,

spk_0 I got my period. And then one girl, a actual girl on her team said, like, what was that? Like,

spk_0 can I just win scary? Yeah. I was surprised. But that's just my first thought. And I'm like,

spk_0 I don't know. Maybe that's right. And that's fine. And I was so, I was just so tickled. But I,

spk_0 no, but I put that, but I totally get what you mean is there is a part of that where you're like,

spk_0 ah, that if you would just said scary, like if you would just really deliver that is frightened

spk_0 and like that would have worked better. Sure. Would have worked better for the audience. But

spk_0 and it's hard. I don't know. That's a hard space to be in. And I think that's something that,

spk_0 for me personally, I'm always like trying to redouble my efforts on like just say this line.

spk_0 Like you fucking mean it. Yeah. Oh, me too. Me. I mean, I was like, just look at, just look at

spk_0 Jacob Reed and don't laugh. Just just take it in. He's funny. Very funny. Very funny. Very funny.

spk_0 Very funny. Don't laugh at him. Just yeah. But I can't that's a thing that I is a is a

spk_0 trademark and not trademark of mine. But like a black mark on me is like, yeah, they laughed a lot.

spk_0 Yeah. And I do. That's fair. What about something you love to see? Someone

spk_0 I love to see you. Here's someone I love to see. And I've talked about this in other with

spk_0 other people too. I love seeing the support. I love seeing. I'm fine calling out the unusual.

spk_0 I want that to happen. And I don't want it just to be everyone takes on that unusual thing.

spk_0 Right. I like seeing one person be unusual. And then we're all straight men and making him or

spk_0 her the best and funniest unusual person you can make. Yeah. But I want there. I love it when I see

spk_0 groups supporting moves like you could tell when someone's like, I'm not sure about this line or

spk_0 I didn't have anything. And I love it when like everyone comes out and like supports that move and

spk_0 makes that move the best thing possible. Yeah. I love it when the scene is going on a little too

spk_0 long and it's not maybe that funny. Yeah. And we can all feel it. And someone on your team comes in

spk_0 and helps makes helps to make you fun or funny and gives you more joy in the scene. Yeah.

spk_0 Doesn't try to like take it in a different place or necessarily even just like take you out just

spk_0 to get you out there. Although that could be super helpful too. But like keep you in it and make it

spk_0 great and make you feel good. Make the audience go that was a great move. That was awesome. Yeah.

spk_0 I love seeing. And this is happening mostly in private business. It's this team play team support.

spk_0 But I just love it when years like that is an awesome team. And not just a group of individuals,

spk_0 but I got the head each other's backs. Yeah. And I think that is it feels so good to do to

spk_0 serve to another teammate. It feels so good to be on the receiving end of it. And I think the

spk_0 audience feels it. Yeah. And I just want to see that all the time. Yeah. That the going in and

spk_0 helping a scene is one of the most generous things you can do. Jake I still remember Jake

spk_0 she boarded it to one scene that meet between me and Kyle Peralski. Fucking saved our ass as

spk_0 you were two minutes of just like, Oh, this is sucking. And then he came in and helped. And I

spk_0 remember one of the greatest moments I've ever felt an improv was like we had a tag run going at

spk_0 a UCB long hard jam. We had a tag run going. It was perfectly clear what was going on. Some guy

spk_0 tagged in and they just started having a conversation off the game. They were lost. It like asked

spk_0 her for like a minute and a half. And it was like, there's like good improvisers there. And I was

spk_0 like, what the fuck is going on? And then I like walked on made a move to make it be like the same

spk_0 thing that we had been doing the whole time. The audience exploded. We got an edit. And I was like,

spk_0 Oh, that was that was super good. Thank you. I felt like a fucking hero. Yeah.

spk_0 Like you feel like a fucking hero. It's amazing. It's the best feeling. And I have a

spk_0 a quick little anecdote in over running along. A guy by name Brian Alman who lives out here in L.A.

spk_0 But I did it in probably with him back in Milwaukee. I remember him telling a story once where he

spk_0 goes, we're at the show at this college. And the show is tanking. And the audience is hating the

spk_0 two people on stage. And he goes, uh, he goes, I remember he goes, I, and he goes more,

spk_0 I just can't remember the specifics now, but he can't, he can. Yeah. The just of it was he goes,

spk_0 they're hating the two people on stage. And I, and uh, he goes, I remember I don't have anything he

spk_0 thought. Brian was like Brian said he goes, I don't have anything. But I just got to get out there

spk_0 anyways and make sure that the audience hates me more than they hate these two people. Sure.

spk_0 So I went out and did something and got the heat off of them. Yeah. And on me. And I,

spk_0 I was like, Oh, that's great. I mean, I really wanted to be fun for everybody. But that's for me,

spk_0 that felt super generous at the time. I love that philosophy. I would like that. So great.

spk_0 Somebody, uh, some fuck, I don't remember who said this on this podcast. I think like if somebody's

spk_0 eating a shit sandwich on stage, you go out there and take a bite too. Like yeah, I like that. And, uh,

spk_0 yeah, there is, you know, because that the other side of it, which is again, one of the worst

spk_0 things is or you could have been that person who edits the scene and like goes like these fucking

spk_0 guys to the audience, right? It tries to be the one who survives. It's like a fuck you. No, yeah.

spk_0 And it also doesn't work. It doesn't even kind. You can't be the one person they like on an improv team.

spk_0 No one feels good after that. No one. No one. No one. I like that phrase. The one survives. Yeah.

spk_0 That why I know part of this. Well, I didn't do. Yeah. I'm like, I'll start something new. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Lockbroke. Oh my god. That's great. Okay. So sorry. Uh, no, do you have some more? Nope. Okay. Cool. Uh, then, uh,

spk_0 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, uh, side coaching, yay or nay? Uh, side coaching, your name. Uh, uh, uh, I,

spk_0 I know you ask this every time. Um, I, I could go to, I, I, I know running too long. I want to,

spk_0 I want to know the background of why you asked this. I'm just interested. I, when I side coach,

spk_0 I feel like half the time. So I'm like, this is a really good choice to do it. And half the time,

spk_0 I'm like, that's not the right choice. Yep. I'm with you on that. I fall, I fall in the middle with you.

spk_0 Um, uh, I know that like, uh, Farley says no, fall on your face. Yeah. Jake, I think we'll like,

spk_0 give some notes. I fall in that middle where I'm like, I want, sometimes I wanted to give him a

spk_0 note so then the scene can go well and they can see it in action. Yeah. Um, but then sometimes I

spk_0 talk too long. It ruins the moment of the scene. You can't do anything. So it depends on the moment.

spk_0 It depends on the improvisation. Depends on the teacher. Yeah. Um, that's how I feel about it. I don't

spk_0 know. Yeah. Well, you're a good coach. I mean, who you, you got this? Uh, okay. What about last?

spk_0 Then I think this is it last, last bit. Pearl and wisdom. Cool. No piece of advice. Great.

spk_0 Wisdom on improv. Here's the thing. I'll give you something more that's specific about, I think,

spk_0 game or improv and then something maybe we'll work so more out there. Um, one is, uh, you did

spk_0 improv at the improv space for a long time, right? improv space. Do you know JD Walsh? Uh, I met, yeah,

spk_0 I met him very briefly. Very briefly. I wanted to, I got to tell a story because it's so funny.

spk_0 I was doing 101 at the time and they had the first like one of the, like my first iOS

spk_0 improv comedy festival that they had and you can take workshops for like 20 bucks or whatever.

spk_0 Yep. And I so just signed up for a bunch of them. Didn't know. JD Walsh was the teacher of

spk_0 one of them. I did a couple scenes. I'm like four weeks into my first 101 or whatever.

spk_0 And JD Walsh, like, like stops me and he goes like, all right, you're very funny. But you,

spk_0 you want the audience to like you and it's making you not funny. And I, and he said that and I was

spk_0 like, this all sounds accurate. I like the compliment and I also believe you, I do want them like me.

spk_0 And like, it was like a very hard note and I was like, I've been doing this for four weeks.

spk_0 It devastated me. And I still, and I still think maybe that's essentially the only note that

spk_0 I've ever needed in my life and I'm still working on it to this day. Anyway, sorry. Okay. JD

spk_0 Walsh. I love that. I love that. So very much. JD Walsh started the improv space. Yeah. Right.

spk_0 And at the time it was called, yeah. JD Walsh, you should do comedy sports. I think in Madison maybe.

spk_0 Oh, okay. And he ran the execution. The thing I did at IO, this improv competition was like an

spk_0 American Idol title. Yeah. American. I'd be like one winner of one of my sorata for like, oh, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. And JD Walsh, I love him. And he's been nothing but great to me. But I realized that maybe

spk_0 he could be a little polarizing to some people in this little improv world. Yeah.

spk_0 Anyways, JD Walsh would warm us up every week before the execution. So that was like, I don't

spk_0 know where it was like 12 to 15 weeks. It warm us up every time we just do warm up scenes. And he

spk_0 would, you know how we UCB has gained. Right. And we're looking for you find the usual thing.

spk_0 You make a pattern out of it. You rest it. Right. He would say the way he would he would never say

spk_0 game. But he his thing was always relationship reveal be affected. Maybe we've heard this from him.

spk_0 Relationship relationship reveal. Yeah. React. We heard that. Yeah. But he ours would make better sense.

spk_0 Those they be affected. And so I try to think about that. And that really sticks with me. And I

spk_0 feel like that's what game is. And I think they can make it sometimes a little easier to process

spk_0 game is like relationship. Let's get the world out there. Or I think relationship in this scenario

spk_0 is resting the game. I think reveal that unusual moment. Right. And then have a have a reaction.

spk_0 Yeah. If you don't react, the audience doesn't react. Right. They get invested in your scene.

spk_0 And he's like, just do that over and over and over and over. And over. And fun. That to be super

spk_0 helpful relationship reveal. React. Re-machial reveal be affected. And I think doing remember

spk_0 in that my scenes helped me as I was trying to understand game better in my early days. Even now

spk_0 sometimes. Yeah. But it was just a slightly different way of phrasing it. That bound helpful to me.

spk_0 How about that? Yeah. Yeah. And then the second thing is and this is something that I've kind of

spk_0 that I've always believed. But I don't say it. But our we both know KCFA. He's an improviser. I

spk_0 really know in many circles as the King of comments on Facebook. I think he's a self-proclaimed

spk_0 King of comments. Anyways. Thanks for plugging his weird Facebook. But early on, I don't know if

spk_0 he's I don't think he says so much now. But early on when he used to rumble the indie shows

spk_0 called Crash Bar out here. And he would do like a ton of shows too, right? And he would push shows.

spk_0 He would always like do a hashtag at the end of it. Or you just say at the end, he would say get

spk_0 involved. I think he did as a hashtag maybe. Yeah. Get involved. He's plugging a show or asking you

spk_0 to come see a show or whatever. So been to a show. And that's how I feel about a lot about improv

spk_0 is like get involved. Get involved in your scene. Get involved in your group. Get involved in

spk_0 the community, whichever improv you're community, community you're in or the comedy community.

spk_0 Get involved if it's something you want to be doing. And there is a if you want to be dating

spk_0 someone more, if you want to find more dates, get involved. Find out place to go and things to do

spk_0 to get you to date more. If you want to climb in your the the ladder at your job, get involved,

spk_0 figure out a way to get in there and get seen and become part of this thing that you that you say

spk_0 you want to be a part of. And just do it, do it, do it, do it, do it. If it's something you want.

spk_0 And maybe we won't get you the exact thing you want, but it'll get you to some other place you

spk_0 never knew existed. But you don't know if that'll work, if you or if that'll ever happen,

spk_0 if you don't get involved in the first place. So in this world of like when I tell when people

spk_0 come to I've had friends that want to move out here from other places and like maybe get involved

spk_0 in UCB. And I always say the same thing. And that is like if you're going to get out here,

spk_0 they might take a while. Get involved. Like just get involved. And that may be for six months,

spk_0 maybe for six years. Right. You want to act, get involved, start taking workshops, send

spk_0 mailers out to get an agent, whatever it's going to be, do all go to all the places where people

spk_0 go to try to get acting jobs or whatever. Yeah. Take voice over classes, take scene study class,

spk_0 take commercial acting classes, get involved in the things that you want to be a part of,

spk_0 rather than just like sitting on that sideline. And in case you just say that a lot and I

spk_0 always remember that. Yeah. I like that one a lot. Yep. Very good.

spk_0 Well, I think that'll do it for this episode. Great. Sorry to rinse along. No, this is the listeners.

spk_0 They love this. They're sitting there. They're like, give me more. Give me more. They're going to

spk_0 they're going to be tweeting there, but like do more. And I'll be like, well, no, you do a good

spk_0 job. I just want to say you do a good podcast. Hey, thanks man. And you've been doing it for a long

spk_0 time. And you're not doing it to nobody. So keep doing what you're doing. Hey, I'll try.

spk_0 If it's something you want to keep doing, I like doing it. I came to this conclusion that I

spk_0 might like talking about improv as of right now. Morph and doing it, which is weird. Also,

spk_0 wonder if I just like talking about improv more than I like doing it. I remember like it's,

spk_0 you know, I'm sure you've had those moments where you stay late after a show on the corner. And

spk_0 you're just talking about the set for like an hour and a half, a 15 minute set. Did that all the

spk_0 time? Loved it. Loved every moment. Yep. It's always the best. Well, is there anything that you

spk_0 do want to plug or share with the listening audience? Well, improv heads out there. I guess if you

spk_0 want to see me do improv, you can see my group bangering every Friday night at 8 p.m. at UCB Franklin

spk_0 in Hollywood. And then if you want to see me do something on somewhere else, me and a bunch of

spk_0 people from my group bangering, lenter voices to a teenage mutant ninja turtle short. Yeah,

spk_0 Nickelodeon put out. And you can search for I think it's like TMNT summer shorts on YouTube.

spk_0 And you can find a bunch of different ones that they made and by different artists and they're

spk_0 need to see different people's takes on the turtles. Who I think are great. Dave Christiansen tweeted

spk_0 that out like a screenshot of that. And I was like, oh, that'd be cool. Too bad I don't have whatever

spk_0 channel this is on. But I guess it's out there. So it's on YouTube. Okay, great. So I'm going to

spk_0 watch that. Yep. All right, listeners. Well, check out all that stuff. Until next time, happy

spk_0 improvising. All right, dear listeners. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. If you guys want

spk_0 to follow Dave Tuney online, maybe tell him, hey, great job on that podcast. You can find him at

spk_0 Dave Tuney. I'm sure you'd love to hear that he was, you know, awesome in this podcast or at

spk_0 least maybe I would. If you want to follow me, I'm at Pearlstein. And if you want to reach out to me

spk_0 for improv coaching, you know, I don't know if I sounded great after all that. But if you wanted

spk_0 to, I'm out there on that improv coaches website. I'm doing it. I'm enjoying it.

spk_0 Yeah, I also have another podcast called I love you and I like you. It's a Parks and Recreation

spk_0 podcast. You can check that out. Nighttunes or your favorite podcasting app or my other podcasts.

spk_0 It's all about wrestling, professional wrestling. I hate professional wrestling. Some of my friends do

spk_0 and I make fun of it. I do comedy in my terms in that way. I think that's all the things for now.

spk_0 I guess that's it guys. All right. And if again, if you're from the theater of UCB, just

spk_0 forget all of that. I had a fake, I had a stand in it today. It was not that everybody you just heard

spk_0 that guy you just heard was not Steven Pearlstein. Someone else is making up stuff. All right, here we go.

76. Dave Theune & Doing Comedy On Your Own Terms

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