Technology
5 Best Podcast SEO Practices to Rank at the Top of Apple and Spotify Search | Irène Picco, Ausha
In this episode, host Courtney Elmer and guest Irène Picco from Ausha discuss the top five SEO practices for podcasters to improve their visibility on platforms like Apple and Spotify. They share ins...
5 Best Podcast SEO Practices to Rank at the Top of Apple and Spotify Search | Irène Picco, Ausha
Technology •
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Interactive Transcript
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The podcast landscape is one of the fastest evolving digital landscapes that we have today.
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So much so that in the course over the past five years or so we have seen listener behavior
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change dramatically.
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And now one in two podcast listeners discover new shows to listen to through the search
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bar inside of Apple and Spotify, which means that if your show isn't showing up in
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those search results, then in reality you are handing half of your audience to someone
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else.
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And in this episode we are fixing that.
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I am back in the studio with Irene Pico from OSHA to share the five best podcast SEO
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practices that will get your show ranking where listeners are already looking for content
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like yours so that every episode you create becomes a shortcut that helps your ideal listeners
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find you faster and so that your show can be the one that they see first when searching
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for what you teach.
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Welcome to insider secrets to a top 100 podcast.
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I'm your host Courtney Elmer.
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Let's make your business binge worthy.
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Irene, welcome back.
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Hi Courtney.
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Happy to have you here.
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You know, in the episode before this and we were unpacking the results that we saw on
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this podcast from using podcast SEO as a marketing strategy and a discoverability strategy
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for the show.
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In case you didn't catch that episode just to give you the highlight reel, we actually
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saw a 41% increase in downloads in a 30 day period from this strategy alone.
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No other marketing strategies and 155.3% increase in overall growth of the show over the
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five month period that we would diligently tested this strategy as a standalone strategy
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to really be able to see the impact that podcast SEO or PSO can have on a podcast.
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And so now for the question that everyone wants to know which is okay, how do I use a strategy
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like this for my show to get those kind of results.
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So Irene, before we jump into best practices, I want to pretend someone's finding this
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episode in search for the first time.
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And they didn't hear the episode right before this.
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We're broke down all the results of using this strategy.
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So I'd love to help you fill in this blank.
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Podcast SEO is the most powerful marketing tool we have right now for podcast discoverability
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because why?
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I would say because two main reasons.
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The first one would be research.
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Research has shown that we know that one into podcast listeners actually discover new shows
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directly inside podcast apps and more specifically through the search bar on those apps.
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So this is where your audience is and this is the first way to actually make sure that you get
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discovered.
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The second reason because it's important and more specifically important now is because this
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is a relatively new discipline.
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And I think now would be a very good time and opportunity for you to start working on
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your whole podcast search strategy before everyone else starts doing the same.
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So I would say just competitive advantage.
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I agree 100% because as more and more people start to develop this discipline, it will
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be harder to compete.
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So for those podcasters that are jumping on this now, they're seeing results.
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They are able to optimize not just their show for search, but every single one of their
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episodes.
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So if you have five episodes or 50 episodes or 500 episodes, that's that many more opportunities
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for listeners to find you.
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And to your point, Irene, it's really just getting ahead of the competition because once
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more people know how to utilize this strategy once this is more mainstream now that we have
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ways to track it.
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More people are going to be doing this for their podcast.
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So the sooner you start, the sooner you'll be able to take advantage.
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I want to jump in here to with a question that comes up a lot when I'm talking with
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podcasters about podcast SEO, which is, well, how do I know if a keyword is worth optimizing
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for what makes a good keyword?
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Can you break that down a little bit for us?
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Sure.
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I would say two main factors here as well.
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What we call at OSHA search volume on a specific keyword and what we call difficulty
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on a specific keyword.
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Search volume basically is how popular a keyword is, how often it gets searched by people
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in the search bar.
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Obviously, you want to be ranking on such keywords that are very popular.
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The second one would be difficulty.
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Difficulty that's how competitive a keyword is.
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Maybe how many people are already ranking on that specific word.
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Maybe how big the podcasts ranking are.
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So in a nutshell, that's how difficult it might be for you to outrank the shows that
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are already present in the search.
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At OSHA, we help measure actually like search volume and difficulty.
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And I would say the important thing is to make a trade off and to prioritize between
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keywords using both indicators.
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The sweet spot would be a keyword with the higher search volume as possible.
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And the lowest difficulty is possible.
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And I think that's also what you did, Courtney, when you started optimizing on your show, right?
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Yes, there are a few keywords that I knew I wanted to go after like podcasting, which
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is high search volume, but also very high difficulty.
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And if you listening have any working knowledge of traditional SEO, this is typically what
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we're looking for.
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Similarly, where we want to see a lot of people searching for that keyword, but where it's
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not so difficult to rank for, because if it is very difficult in terms of the difficulty
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score, you're going to have to utilize that keyword a lot more in order to have a competitive
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advantage in order to be able to rank for it.
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So there were a couple of keywords like that that I was just determined to rank for no
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matter what, which we did make it to the top of search results and podcasting, but there
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were also other more niche keywords that were still very relevant to what one of my listeners
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might potentially be searching for if they were looking for a podcast like this.
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But that were easier to rank for because they weren't as competitive.
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So actually, Irene, this is a great point here that I would love to have you dig into
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and break down for us, which is the difference between broad keywords or more generic keywords
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versus niche keywords.
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Should you be optimizing for as many keywords as possible?
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Is it better to optimize for more narrow or niche keywords, having a mix between the two?
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What do you typically recommend?
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Yes, this is a great question and one that we definitely get asked a lot.
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I would say you have to get a mix of both.
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And I would say you can't work on everything at the same time.
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You have to select and usually that's what we recommend.
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515 to 20 keywords to start working on.
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Define maybe five core ones, the ones that you absolutely want to be visible on.
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And then maybe 10 to 15 broader ones that are secondary but still important.
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Within those 15 to 20 keywords, you can have and you have to have broad ones.
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So that would be as you were saying, very popular ones that are like related to your content,
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but not very, very specific because obviously this is where you would get the most
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agents from because they're popular.
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But it's also very important to be optimizing some more niche keywords, more
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narrowly related to your content just to make sure that like, even if fewer people are looking
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for those keywords, then the people that are looking for them will be sure that they've found you.
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And these will be even more loyal listeners than the ones that search maybe for broader keywords.
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So I would say a mix of both and five core ones 10 to 15 secondary keywords.
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Yes, I agree 100%. And I think having that mix is really important because the broader ones are
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going to be the ones that people are more likely to look for. And ideally that those keywords are
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matching you with the right listeners and some of those people will convert. But to your point,
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those niche keywords where it is more narrow, where even though fewer people might be searching for it,
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the people who are searching for it, they want content on that. And if you provide that content,
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well, then we definitely want you in those search results because those listeners are going to be
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even more likely to click in in order to get the answer to whatever the question is that they might
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be asking and why they're searching in the first place, which brings me to another important point,
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Irene, which is a question we get all the time. And I'm sure you do too, which is,
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okay, where should I be using keywords? Where do I put keywords? How do I use them? Once I've
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figured out kind of what my five core keywords are, maybe the 15 other ones that I want to be
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optimizing for. Now, where do I put them? Yes, this is also very important. And there are actually
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different places where you could implement and use keywords and not all of them have the same
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importance. So it's important for you listeners to know where to put them and in what order of
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importance. Keywords are implemented in what we call overall podcasts metadata. It's a big word,
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it just means basically your show name, your show notes, your author name could be important as
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well, especially on Apple podcasts. And then on the episode level titles and descriptions,
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in order of importance, the show level metadata definitely is the most impactful and has the more
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leverage on your ranking. So the show name is the most important one, the show notes and then the
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episode titles and then the episode descriptions, I would say. So obviously my recommendation will
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also be maybe try and include the first two more important keywords for all of your shows in
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the title if that's possible. And I think that's what you did Courtney with like the tagline.
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But yeah, that's what keywords, how they can be implemented. So helpful to know that hierarchy,
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because like I always say, you know, and you mentioned it too, like the written messaging of your
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podcast, basically all of it is what we want to optimize for. We want to be using those keywords
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as naturally as possible throughout all the written messaging, but some of the written messaging of
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your podcast carries more weight in terms of how that keyword becomes visible in Apple and Spotify.
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So like you said, the show name, we absolutely want to have it there. And this is where I was like,
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how can I use these keywords without changing the name of my podcast? And we have this question
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come in from clients too. And where in some cases, the podcast does need an overall rebrand. And in
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those cases, I always say, let's work the keywords naturally into the name of the podcast. And when
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that happens, it's really so beautiful when it all comes together that way, because truly the name
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of the podcast is keyword optimized. But then you have those scenarios where maybe it's an established
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podcast, maybe it's a podcast that's a longstanding podcast like mine where people know the name.
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I didn't want to change the name of the show. But we're adding a very strategic keyword rich tagline
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in the name field of the podcast, Ken signal to Apple and to Spotify, hey, that's what this podcast
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is about. So you'll see the tagline we have right now, it has the title of the podcast. It has
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my name as the host's name and your name as the host should always be in that field as well. And then
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it also has a keyword rich tagline that even though that gets cut off if a listener is kind of looking
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at this in search, it doesn't really matter because my name also clearly communicates what the show
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is about. I don't need the tagline to explain the name of the show. And that's really important.
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But the tagline is there for keyword optimization and just simply putting that in the name field,
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we have seen higher reach higher rankings in search for those particular keywords. And it's been
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really amazing just to see how that one simple tweak had a really big impact. Yes.
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And I love recommending to use that tagline if that's possible. I know it's always a touchy subject,
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the name of a show. When you're starting from fresh and you have like a brand new show,
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obviously, you can make some tweaks. But otherwise, if you've had like a podcast for a long time and
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people also identify you with that specific title, then the tagline is an amazing option. As you're
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saying, people will see the first few words or the first sentence of your title and they won't
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really mind the tagline. That's also a concern that I see a lot and that I get asked a lot. So, yes,
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always a good idea. Yes. Yeah. Because the Apple name field as far as I know is still about 60
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characters, give or take before it gets truncated. This might be slightly different on Spotify, but usually
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my recommendation for a podcast name is less than 60 characters. So in most cases, the tagline is
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going to exceed that character limit, which means it will get cut off visibility-wise. Like, you won't
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actually be able to see the full tagline in the player, but that's okay because your podcast name
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should clearly communicate what your show is about. Listener should immediately know what that
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show is about just by looking at your name. And therefore, in these cases where, you know,
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if you have a longstanding podcast and you don't want to change the name of your show, adding that
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tagline in that name field on the back end of your hosting provider can still signal to Apple
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and Spotify. Hey, that's what this show is about. So it's a really beautiful thing. And then I like
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to also look at the episode titles almost as many name fields because even though they take second
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priority to the show name when Apple and Spotify are crawling, all the written messaging to see what
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that show is about, it's still very important because now this kind of becomes the next most important
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thing that Apple and Spotify will look for to say, hey, what is this episode about? Most important
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rule of thumb to remember is make sure you're naturally using these keywords in the text.
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You never want it to look like you're just stuffing those keywords in very unnaturally or like
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they're just there because you're trying to optimize it. It's obvious when that happens and
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it won't bode well for you in terms of Apple and Spotify putting you at the top of search results.
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In fact, they'll put you lower. So don't do that. Use it naturally throughout your text. But this
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Irene is where people typically ask, okay, once I've optimized my show for these keywords.
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Number one, how quickly can I expect to see results? And number two, how do I know if these
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keywords are working? And how do I know if I ever need to change anything or tweak anything?
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Can you speak to that a little bit? Sure. And we have seen this in the past in just like a couple
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days, if you're working on keywords with like very low difficulty, for example, or very niche keywords.
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So you could see the results overnight. But I would say in most cases, this is something that you
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see in the medium to long run. Usually we say 90 days. This is no magic tool. You have to have like
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processes implemented. You have to be able to streamline to go back to past episodes to make
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sure that you have like methodology that you will regularly and consistently implement
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on all of your new and past episodes. So usually we say a few months up to 90 days.
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Obviously also PSO is in something that like you implement once and then just never touch again.
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As you were saying, and as we were mentioning earlier during this episode, people also start
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optimizing their own shows and their own episodes. So the results are always moving. And I think
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some results that we saw you and I like two months ago maybe changed again. Maybe you've moved
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up some positions. Maybe you lost like one or two ranks. So it's always on the move. You always have
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to be implementing new things, trying out new things to see the results not only growing within
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just a few months, but also remaining in a stable way across time. It's so true where it's easy
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to get excited about this strategy and just say, okay, I've built my keywords and now I'm using
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them in my podcast and I'm seeing some results and then to kind of then not use those key words
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as often anymore. And then you start to fall down and search, right? So that's something you do
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have to stay on top of and just know what those keywords are for you as podcasting evolves.
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Like we mentioned, there's going to be more and more people who start to utilize this strategy.
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So there will be more people to compete against. You want to be the top competitor. You want to be
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the one they have to compete against. And on the flip side, your niche is going to evolve too as new
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podcasts into your niche that are covering the same or similar topics as you. And so in order to
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really dominate those keywords, it's important to stay on top of your strategy. But the beautiful
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thing that I love about podcast SEO is that if you are a solo podcaster, if you are someone with a
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very small team or very limited capacity or you're the one who's out there putting your content
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out there and you know you need to market it, but maybe you just don't have a lot of time
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to market it or maybe you don't have a huge budget to run ads for your podcast. This is a
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strategy that you do see results relatively quickly and that over the long term, doesn't take a
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whole lot of time to maintain. So it's a relatively light lift in that sense compared to a lot of
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other organic strategies that we have such as podcast casting, which does take a lot of time.
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It is a bit of a heavier lift. So Irene, we've covered so much today about why podcasts SEO is so
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powerful. And particularly why is podcasting continues to evolve. A strategy like this is more
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important to jump on right now sooner than later because at the end of the day, all podcasters
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want to grow their shows. And more importantly, they want to know that the time and effort they're
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putting into any marketing strategy is actually paying off. So for those who want a highly effective
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way to cut through the noise out there in the podcasting landscape and actually get their show seen,
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how does OSHA's visibility tool make that easier than ever for them? So at OSHA, our technology
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is called PSO control panel. Basically, this technology helps you and or your team analyze,
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adjust and monitor your performance in terms of podcast SEO day after day. So we're here basically
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every step of the way we're here to assist. We help identify the right keywords for a show. We
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help you estimate how popular a keyword is, how competitive it is with search volume and difficulty.
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We also provide benchmarking tools just to understand, okay, who's out there, how are they
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optimizing their shows already, their metadata already. The last step would be of course the monitoring.
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So just an ascending for all the keywords that you are working on, how are you ranking,
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how has your position changed in the last week or the last months, all of that you can track as well.
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And yes, the idea is just to provide you with as many insights as possible whether or not you're
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hosted with OSHA. We'd love to assist you in all of that. And I just have to say I am so so grateful
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for the work that you've put into building this dashboard, particularly around the visibility. I mean,
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all the marketing tools you have are wonderful. This one in particular gives us eyes to see how a
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marketing strategy is paying off. This one being podcast SEO. And it's so powerful to be able to
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log in and with a few clicks of a button see exactly where you're ranking in search in whatever
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country that you are tracking your show in or countries. You can track within multiple countries to
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see where you're ranking. You can see who you're ranking against and who your top competitors are.
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And what your show's position is against those competitors and so many other tools that are just
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right there at your fingertips to be able to say, okay, I know exactly what I need to do to optimize
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my strategy even further so that I can stay at the top of search and it just makes it so incredibly
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easy. So I mean, thank you for being here today to help us break down podcast SEO. Why podcasters
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need to be taking advantage of this and especially for all the ways in which you've made it so
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easy for podcasters to take advantage of this strategy. I really appreciate you being here today.
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Thank you for having me, Courtney. It has been amazing working with you. It has been amazing
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collaborating on PSO together. And yes, I'm excited about what's to come.
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And if you've been following along in this podcast SEO episode series, well, by now you know
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why podcast SEO is quickly becoming one of the most effective visibility strategies for niche
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podcasters. And you also know how quickly it can deliver and the type of results that you can see
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for your show. And we just walked through some of the best practices for getting started with
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podcast SEO. But remember, if this feels overwhelming or if you're just like, oh my gosh, I don't even
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want to touch this with a 10 foot pole, but I would really like to see those results for my podcast.
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Then just head to the show notes, click one of the links where you've got multiple options
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available to you in terms of learning this strategy, building this strategy for your podcast in a
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way that you can master and or pass off to a team member. We can handle it for you. My team would
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love to step in and build a keyword strategy for you so that you don't even have to think about it
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and hand you the keywords that you need to be using in your episode titles and in your descriptions.
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Or if you're more of the DIY type, I strongly recommend checking out OSHA's platform
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because it's going to allow you to see any podcast SEO efforts that you're putting toward your
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podcast, how those are actually performing for you. And that is really important because when it
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comes to podcast SEO, there is still one big problem we need to solve together because most
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podcasters, they have no idea if their podcast SEO is actually paying off. And I don't know about
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you, but I don't know anyone who wants to spend hours working on something, optimizing something
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only to stay invisible in search. The good news is that podcast SEO can give you the thrill of a
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quick win and the payoff of long term podcast growth when you know how to track it. And that is
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why in the next episode, we're going to break down to three metrics that you need to be looking at
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so that you can know without a doubt that your show is showing up in search, getting clicked
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and converting new listeners. That's all coming up next to help you make your business binge-worthy.