Lifestyle
#454 Sex, Pleasure, and Porn - with Jessica Drake
In this episode of the Shameless Sex podcast, hosts Amy and April dive deep into the world of sex, pleasure, and pornography with renowned sex educator Jessica Drake. They explore the intersections of...
#454 Sex, Pleasure, and Porn - with Jessica Drake
Lifestyle •
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Interactive Transcript
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When we think about how society can dictate what the beauty standards are,
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we also have to consider how porn plays into that,
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and what mainstream media's representation of what porn might look like.
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Like it's all together, right? Like it's all connected.
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I'm Amy. I'm April. Certified sex educators,
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sex birds of the year and best-selling authors.
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And we're on a mission to help you have more spicy, connected, and amazing shameless sex.
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Welcome to the shameless sex revolution.
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To learn more, go to shamelesssex.com.
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And for 15% off, some of our favorite sex toys use code shamelesssex at purepleasureshop.com.
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You were listening to a pleasure podcast.
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For more from our sex podcast collective, visit PleasurePodcast.com.
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Well, hello, everyone. Hey, everybody.
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Welcome back to the shameless sex podcast. When this is coming out, it's October.
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Isn't it like, fucktober?
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Fucktober. I've heard kinktober. Is it thing? Cocktober?
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Actually, is it thing? Cocktober.
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Or, uh, I don't know, get your fuck on in October. It's a good month.
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Yeah, it's a, I mean, it's, it's, it's fall. It's getting darker.
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It's a little colder. It's a good time to snuggle up a masturbate.
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I love sex. It's actually a weird weather right now.
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Here it is in Santa Cruz. Yeah, it feels like Santa Cruz is, we're not dry,
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but we're not completely human. It's a little more on the human side right now.
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Yeah, it's, it's my panties or is it the weather?
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I'm ready for, I'm ready for fall.
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Me too. I love fall.
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Yeah, sipping cocoa and, yeah.
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And pumpkin spiced whatever.
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I love pumpkin spiced, all the things. I'm wearing a, like, a lot of people like fall for,
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like, fashion, split season. I'm more like, I just like when it gets darker early,
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I want to get in my bed at like seven or eight.
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I did that yesterday. So nice.
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I just want to sleep.
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That's what this one thing about summer.
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You said really just like summer when I was a kid, because I was really alone
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as only child. And, and so I was like, I was sorry, it's a love summer.
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And now I'm like, summer's almost my least favorite season, because I can't get in bed.
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It's still like, yeah, and if you live north, like,
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northern parts of the US, especially other parts of the world, I couldn't do it.
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It gets really dark, really late.
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Yeah. It's so, I can do it for like a vacation.
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Yeah, I remember it being back home in the Midwest, and it being like 10 o'clock and
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the light out.
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Bees, I was so confused. My brain was like, I'm not tired, because it's light out.
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So, mess up my sleep cycles, which is already messed up.
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For all of you, get cozy.
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Yeah.
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Bang it out with yourself or your partner partners or, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's consensual.
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Yeah, so as long as it's consensual.
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So if you want to do sluttober or kinktober or what do you say?
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Foktober.
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We got all the things for you watching the sex.
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This episode is with the amazing, incredible world renowned Jessica Drake.
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This was such a great episode, and it's going to be a two-parter, because we could not stop
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listening to what she was saying, and we could not, I was like, we're not cutting this in.
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We are.
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So good.
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This is going to be a two-parter.
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So it's worth listening to this first episode, because we went on a lot of different,
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not even tangents, but a lot of different paths with her about.
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It was like getting deeper and deeper into all the topics.
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She's a dancer.
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She's also so smart.
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More rector.
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She's like, it's a joy to a fan girl, a bunch.
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Yeah.
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And she's also, look, she's gorgeous.
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And inside and out, she's just a gorgeous human.
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And then she, spoiler alert, I'm not going to spoil it though.
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Listen, if it's not in this episode, because I'll be next week.
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Second par will be next week.
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Yeah, so she talks about one of her favorite scenes, which was very unexpected.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I thought about that.
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I don't know.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, we'll figure it out soon, which one's on what part of the episode is.
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Trial of Bread comes for you.
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I'll just listen.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You get the inside sneak peek in the porn world and so much more than that.
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And also, if you're in New York for spoiler alert, she's going to be dancing in December,
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I believe.
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She'll announce it.
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But if you whisper, if you see her, if you're in New York, we have a lot of New York
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listeners.
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Yeah, you can whisper something in her ear when you see her.
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Is whispered shameless.
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I heard about you.
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Yeah, she said shameless.
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And she will give you some purite.
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Like, she'll give you some goodies.
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I don't know what it is.
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Yes.
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She told us we get a private lap dance.
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That's not for everyone else.
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No, everyone else you get a goodie of some sort.
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Yes, yes.
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Don't know what it is.
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Because they may be in our, like, maybe we should fly out to New York while she's dancing.
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Well, she's also touring with Adam and Eve.
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Adam Eve's stories doing education too.
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So she does so many things.
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You're going to learn a lot.
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You'll be very entertained.
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All the, all the place, all the things.
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Yeah.
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You remember a sex question?
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I'm ready.
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All right, cool.
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This is from someone who wrote a sex question that we answered.
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I think a month ago.
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And so they are, it's a follow up.
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Thank you for answering my sex question about
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dipping our toes into three sums.
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My fiance and I instantly signed up for that porn site you recommended and we love it.
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The Lust Three Sum series felt so authentic and we loved how they interviewed everyone.
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So you get to hear their real life perspective.
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So here's my next question.
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Are there more interactive ways to have the experience of a three sum without actually doing it,
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specifically with toys?
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Oh, that's a good question.
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And the lust that they're talking about.
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Erica Lust.
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With a K.
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Erica with a K.
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Which we have been advocates for.
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We started, we interviewed her.
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Remember back.
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We were at the porn awards years ago.
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This is like pre-COVID and we watched Erica Lust weren't,
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weren't earning awards.
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She's won a lot.
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She's won a lot.
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But I got to, I was like, this is so cool.
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And then she's not my show.
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We're like, she's not our show.
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We're like friends with her now.
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And the fact we get us so many questions about porn.
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We get questions about improving your relationships.
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Three sums.
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And two sums.
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Yeah, so many.
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It's cool because when we were talking to Jessica Drake,
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we were talking about porn.
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And she's been an actor and director.
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And for all of the things producer.
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For years in the porn industry.
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And we, I think she loves Erica Lust too.
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She loves Erica Lust too.
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We woven something because we love Erica Lust so much.
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And with all the age verification stuff that's going on,
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I think your porn makes sense.
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Totally.
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And so Erica Lust, if you haven't heard us talk about Erica Lust,
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is Erica with a K.
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Lust.com.
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We have a special discount code for you.
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But if you go to the website, you will see.
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It's very tasteful.
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It's beautiful.
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It's ethical, which you probably don't necessarily see.
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You'd read where it's real people who have
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in real connections, but it's still super fucking hot.
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Like it's still porn.
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And they're paid.
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They're paid well.
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They're taken care of.
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And so great way to explore ethical,
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threesome porn or just porn in general.
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I've loved everything I've watched there.
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And I actually watched one of the threesome things.
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There's a multiple threesome, I guess, videos, I'd say.
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There's nothing.
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It's a series.
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Well, there's a series.
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And then you can watch the whole series in one run.
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And then they have these different ones.
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And I only watched one.
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And it's called Lust Threesome's with Cherry, Dave,
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and Ann.
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So it's two let'sies and one, two poses and one, one, do you know?
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And I loved it.
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And it's really cool.
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Actually, that's what this person had said.
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They're like showing the clips.
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But then you also get these interviews.
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So they're like, here's what I love about having
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through some's where I'm the third or watching my partner
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have engaged with someone else.
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And here's what I loved about that experience.
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You get the turn on.
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And it doesn't feel like the sleazy creepy.
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And it just, again, feels very, very real and inspirational.
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And turns you on a lot.
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Do you think that the turn on part is cool?
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I'm wondering if people could apply some of the things
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that they watch in real life.
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If they are in a situation where they want to put
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three thumbs into action, they could probably use some
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of what they're watching that's turning them on
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in real life.
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Well, so I actually was going to say, yes to that.
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And I have an idea of how you can link that to the sex
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choice.
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Oh, perfect.
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So the sex to a part.
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Yeah.
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OK.
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So if you want to check out Erica, less than I highly
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suggested, you get 45% off with code sex45 at Erica with the
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k, Erica less calm.
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The link will be in the show notes, but definitely go
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check that out.
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OK.
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So the sex toy park.
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Oh, yeah.
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Let's see.
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So one idea, so I have a couple ideas for toys.
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And I know that you probably have the same idea as Chip.
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One is whatever you're doing, you're using these toys.
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And so you're either role playing with your partner
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that that toy is the third or you're just fantasizing about it.
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You can put Erica less porn on the background.
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So it says a threesome porn.
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And then the sex toy that you are having sex with is
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stimulating you with your externally or internally, you're
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pretending like that's the third person in while you're
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watching that on the background.
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Well, OK.
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So let me bring it back to also if you're a penis owner, there's
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masturbators that have vulva shapes or butt shapes where you
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could actually incorporate that too.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Like pipe dream, we make some that are what puts these are
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called what puts you just water.
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You could put that on a coffee.
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You just do water.
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And you put that in a cock and be like, yeah, this is that third
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you're getting it or a butt or what that's a great.
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I love because we talk about a lot of vulva toys because we're
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vulva.
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And this person's a vulva person.
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OK.
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So but we don't I don't know if this person
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to having sex with another woman or another man, like what kind
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of three Sims are you into?
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And so we're just talking about about pleasure and fantasy.
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And all of these things are talking about you can get at pure
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pleasure shop.com use coupon code shameless sex get 15% off
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all these and everything on the site.
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OK, one, the company liberator and they make the bond bond.
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And it's like a sex pillow that you can put a dildo or a magic
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wand in.
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And so you say this is for your pussy, you're the one grinding
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on this either with the dildo inside of you or the magic wand
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vibrator on externally, which is magic wand.
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You can ride on it.
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You can ride on it.
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So you can ride on it while maybe you're sucking your partner's
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cock or there may be is there's an anal going on.
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Maybe there's making out with you or there's something going on.
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And then you're pretending like that thing, whether you're just
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grinding on it or it's inside of you is the other human doing
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the thing and then your partner is your partner.
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So that's one another one section cup dildos.
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Yeah, that's a thing.
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We have harnesses.
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There's like harnesses available to that really stick like
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suction cup dildos on the like the base of them.
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So you can wear kind of a strappy harness with a suction cup
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dildo on it or suction into a wall too.
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Yes.
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Yeah, I don't know if the harness is going to work for imaginary
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three some though, because someone's going to have to wear it.
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Well, yeah, that's true.
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So we're talking about like suction cup like on like you say on the wall
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or on the ground or something like that.
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And so then you're either, but this is only if you want internal stimulation
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or maybe it's your partner who wants to experience something in their
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ass. And so that you know, his ass is is grinding onto this.
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Like you could very good for shower sex.
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There's some good section cup dildos out there.
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Again, all of your pleasure.
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The avant is one of them.
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The colors with it with you is that like old English.
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That's a British way of.
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It's kind of colors.
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It's like catalog.
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Yeah, clothes.
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Yes, yes.
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Yes.
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And there's plenty of other ones as like pipe your same pipe
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dream has a suction to yeah, they have a really good.
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It's the extensions too.
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So if you are a penis owner that orgasm and you want your
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cock to get hardy and you put your softcock into a hard extension.
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Uh-huh.
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And I love it because it's so inclusive.
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Yeah.
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So if they're soft cop play or you could take it off with the softcock.
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Yeah.
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It's just fine.
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Yeah.
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And then the last one I had, I think you were with was a there's
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sex machines right.
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A lot of people know of like the original Sibian love them.
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Love that company.
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Quite, you know, bulky and pricey and awesome.
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Not very there's that you need a like a room for it's totally.
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And so there's this brand is called cow girl and they make actually
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there's a couple of different sizes and price options.
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So it's the cow go premium sex machines and you can ride them.
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And I believe it has both an internal and maybe the ability to just have
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external stimulation on there too.
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But I'm not 100% sure I know that for sure has internal.
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So you can ride.
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Maybe your partner's in another hole or doing whatever else with you or your
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body or maybe your partner's writing on to on the cow girl.
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And then again, you can role play and fantasize as if there's another
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person and or put Erica last on and then just pretend like you don't you
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can even do that and just like not if you're not into role play and stuff.
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You because you can role play and actually act it out.
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You can fantasize just keep it in your brains.
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And that's totally fine in this or you can have the Erica less there.
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And you can just kind of do some of the things that are happening or just
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with the movements and mones without it having to feel like you're role playing.
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And this is all great information.
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And I will say to anyone listening that is curious or has a question mark
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for how to execute this.
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It does take intention.
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You need to set the stage.
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You need to plan have the things laid out have the toys that you want to try
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laid out. So it's not some spontaneity.
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It's great.
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Yeah.
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But you want to make sure that you are setting the stage to see what works well
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for you.
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And it does take intention and creativity.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Obviously consent boundaries on super like.
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But yeah, there's this like we're going to work.
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Let's talk about this.
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Let's try this thing.
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And also April and I like the three tries rule.
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But it doesn't mean if you're a hard no when you try something, then just go
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with your hard no.
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Sometimes we're like, I don't know if I like that.
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So it can be good to try a second or third time.
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So if you want to check out any of these things, I said this before.
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Go to purepleasureshop.com.
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I don't know if my mom, hey, mom, what's up?
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I use coupon code.
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Shameless sex get 15% off.
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And you always all shame a sex listeners get 15% off there all the time.
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Forever.
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Forever for live.
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Okay.
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So are you ready for the bio?
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Jessica Drake is an award winning sex educator, porn performer, sex worker,
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and advocate, challenging stigma and bringing bold, inclusive, consent based
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insight to global audiences.
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As brand strategist for wicked, sensual care, she helps develop products
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with a purpose while destigmatizing conversations around
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lube and sex.
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To learn more, click the link in the show notes or go and follow her on IG
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at Jessica Drake or on Twitter at the Jessica Drake.
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All right, everyone is interview time.
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And we are so excited because we have been wanting to this podcast for years.
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This episode with the amazing, the incredible world renowned Jessica
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Drake.
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This has been a conversation back and forth with Jessica.
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It's very, very, very busy and you will hear all the many hats that Jessica
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wears, do incredible things in the human sexuality world.
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And so it took a while, but we're finally here.
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We wanted to be a person and a part of here, but we're going to settle for online.
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And someday we'll do in person because Jessica could come on our show again and again.
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Has so much to share.
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You already heard a little bit about Jessica Drake in the intro in the bio,
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but Jessica, we always start each episode with the same prompt.
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Can you please tell us and our listeners a little bit more about how you got to
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where you are in the field of sexuality?
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Well, yeah, I can start with the origin story.
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I'm going to take you back way back.
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The things that brought me to where I am today, it had a lot to do with the way
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I grew up in Texas.
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So I was raised, Jehovah's Witness.
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I come from a conservative ish upbringing, my family's from East Texas and also
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a bit of Louisiana.
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And I got abstinence only education in school.
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I got a lot of year-based sex ed don't have sex.
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You're going to have a baby and nobody's going to like you anymore.
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Don't have sex or you're going to get AIDS and die.
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It was very cut and dry and pleasure wasn't mentioned.
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I wasn't taught things like consent or anything like that.
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I grew up very uncomfortable in my body.
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So fast forward some years and I was living in El Paso and I was stripping my way
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through college.
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And when I tell this story, people are like, yeah, but that really does happen.
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Like that's really a thing sometimes.
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And I was a psychology major.
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And so I'm dancing.
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I'm learning about people and their brains and a bit about their sexuality,
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although not nearly enough.
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And at the same time, school got really hard and dancing got very lucrative.
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And when I hit statistic of psych, I was like, oh, yeah, no, I'm out of here.
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Oh, thank you.
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So, so I took a pause on all of that and around the same time,
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I met some people that were involved in the adult industry,
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although I didn't understand back then to what extent they were covering a
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misnued El Paso or a misnued West Texas or something.
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And I would do those contests on a regular basis as a stripper.
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And they said things like, oh, you should come check out L.A.
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Oh, you should come to porn.
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Come and see how it is out in California.
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And I would always laugh them off and just stay things like, yeah,
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I know that's not for me.
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I could never, you know, all of the things I think that people hold in their
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head about what this industry, what sex work might look like.
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You know, I was definitely one of those people who harbored a lot of the bias,
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the stereotype about what it looks like.
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But one day after I had known him for maybe a year or so, I did come out to
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L.A.
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And they took me onto the first adult movie set that I had ever been on.
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And I was blown away.
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Not only were there people having sex right in front of me and guess what?
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As it turns out, I'm quite the boy.
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But it was seriously run like a business because it is.
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It was on schedule.
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There was a a shot log, a shoot schedule.
spk_0
There was wardrobe.
spk_0
There was hair.
spk_0
There was makeup.
spk_0
People had jobs.
spk_0
It wasn't just to free for all.
spk_0
And I really asked myself, because I didn't come into the industry as young
spk_0
as some people.
spk_0
I was like 26-ish.
spk_0
And I was asking myself, like, wow, what did I really think this was going to look
spk_0
like that I am so surprised about what I'm seeing today?
spk_0
I did not start making movies at that time, but it definitely opened up my mind
spk_0
to the possibility.
spk_0
And for the next year, so I would go back and forth and I would dance in L.A.
spk_0
And I would go back to Texas and dance and didn't go back to school.
spk_0
And one day, I called these people up.
spk_0
And as it turns out, they were a director, his wife who was a performer,
spk_0
some people on his crew, a cameraman, a lighting person, a makeup artist.
spk_0
And I got to be really good friends with them.
spk_0
And I said, you know what?
spk_0
I really do want to give this a try.
spk_0
So I came out.
spk_0
I did my first movie.
spk_0
It was something that felt very natural to me.
spk_0
I fell in love with it.
spk_0
And decided that since I had taken the plunge,
spk_0
that I wanted to make it a career.
spk_0
And so I did.
spk_0
I was independent for a little bit.
spk_0
Then I signed a contract with a smaller company that we don't need to talk about.
spk_0
And then I spent almost 16 years with the biggest company in the adult industry
spk_0
that always used to put out the highest quality in adult entertainment,
spk_0
really like plot driven big budget storylines,
spk_0
like not cheesy porn or acting.
spk_0
But you know, stories that made sense and stories about like real situations.
spk_0
They weren't always happy love stories.
spk_0
It was a lot of drama like life.
spk_0
But I did that.
spk_0
And about I would say 10, not quite 10 years in with that company,
spk_0
maybe six or seven years in with that company.
spk_0
I started to do appearances where people were coming to me,
spk_0
asking me for sex advice.
spk_0
And these questions were things that I sort of had taken for granted that people knew
spk_0
because to me, it was almost like remedial sex ed.
spk_0
And it became very clear to me that people were watching porn
spk_0
and literally trying to go home and replicate whatever they saw.
spk_0
And they weren't really discerning about the things that they were trying to put into practice.
spk_0
We had people who had never had anal sex before,
spk_0
seeing it for the first time in a movie.
spk_0
And like that was their expectation to be able to go home and achieve anal penetration,
spk_0
just like that.
spk_0
And you know, it made a big impact on me and it made me reconsider the way that I was showcasing sex.
spk_0
For me and my movies, but it also was the thing that sort of sparked the line of educational movies that I created.
spk_0
I did a series called Jessica Drey's Guide to Wicked Sex.
spk_0
And they're very, I mean, they're explicit.
spk_0
They are absolutely hardcore, but we talk about ways to communicate about sex, different types of sex.
spk_0
And I started this series with people who had never been on camera before or had been real life couples,
spk_0
but that proves to be very, very difficult.
spk_0
But but the last one that I created right before COVID, right before everything shut down.
spk_0
I had co-collaborated with a senior sex educator that I love with all my heart, name Joan Price.
spk_0
And it was almost like we came full circle because none of those people, none of our seniors had ever been on camera before.
spk_0
And certainly they had not had sex on camera before.
spk_0
So I mean, that sort of shows you the trajectory of me being a stripper in Texas to where I'm at now.
spk_0
And currently I hold a bigger role at Wicked Central Care as head of marketing and product development.
spk_0
And I've been in this position for about four years now.
spk_0
A lot of people don't know that.
spk_0
I did a lot of my work very much behind the scenes because I feel like with such a long pass as an adult star,
spk_0
people kind of maybe don't think it's me doing the work or maybe I'm just putting my name on stuff or they underestimate my ability.
spk_0
So I just wanted to be really established here behind my desk before I started talking about it.
spk_0
And I still dance.
spk_0
I still create content.
spk_0
As a matter of fact, I'm doing some on my birthday in a few weeks.
spk_0
I still do appearances.
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I do events.
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I was speaking at a university yesterday.
spk_0
And yeah, I'm just spreading the message with a big side of Loub.
spk_0
Love that.
spk_0
I do.
spk_0
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spk_0
The fact that you're on our show is remarkable because I've been a huge fan.
spk_0
I've watched, I don't remember how many.
spk_0
You feel ungirling right now?
spk_0
Well, I, yes, it me or her.
spk_0
Yeah, I like it.
spk_0
You, I watch that, that education series he did.
spk_0
I think I watched at least four of them.
spk_0
I don't know how many there are in the series, but they were so good.
spk_0
They were, they were done so well.
spk_0
It was real sex, but where it didn't feel produced or over.
spk_0
And then it was with bits of education that were tastefully woven in.
spk_0
And I don't know where people can get that.
spk_0
Hopefully you tell them at the end.
spk_0
I love where you went with that because you're right.
spk_0
We get people all the time saying porn looks like this.
spk_0
I tried it.
spk_0
It hurts or it didn't work out that way.
spk_0
And it's hard because porn, we love it as entertainment.
spk_0
And I love that it exists in the world, but there's rarely porn that is educational
spk_0
and you nailed it.
spk_0
And let me tell you just because the whole package you all, yes, I'll fan out.
spk_0
And also as a human, like as a woman and business, like she is a boss.
spk_0
Next level, I just, the respect, I had no idea until we kind of worked with you a little bit
spk_0
on some things.
spk_0
And I was like, holy shit, she's a boss queen of all boss queens.
spk_0
She's the whole package.
spk_0
I did not know that you were a dancer.
spk_0
And I love, I talked to, when I go to school, I talk to the dancers.
spk_0
So I'm like, so what are your life goals?
spk_0
Like I want to talk to you about what are you, what are your passions?
spk_0
And people always like, are you, are you a dancer?
spk_0
I'm like, no, I love that women can, well, and dudes can too.
spk_0
But I'm speaking to the clubs featuring vulva owners more than the dude clubs,
spk_0
right?
spk_0
That flopping cock in my face.
spk_0
I'm like, I already got one of those at home.
spk_0
That's what I'm like, yes.
spk_0
And I had some really wonderful experiences with super smart dancers that are putting
spk_0
them themselves, they're putting themselves through college, or they're coming out of a situation
spk_0
that they didn't want to be in and they're making their own way.
spk_0
And I just, I love that we have that power within ourselves so everybody can make their own path.
spk_0
Like you didn't want to, you chose not to finish college.
spk_0
You were like, no, this is where I want to spend my money or my time.
spk_0
And look at it, you turned your whole entire life into educating people on this
spk_0
really dynamic and beautiful level that I've never seen.
spk_0
No one else is like Jessica Drake, everyone.
spk_0
Just not one single human.
spk_0
She is in her own class of humans.
spk_0
And thank God you exist.
spk_0
Thank the goddesses, the dancers.
spk_0
Thank everyone that you exist.
spk_0
Because it's an honor to talk to you.
spk_0
And so, so thank you for sharing your story because I've really loved hearing that.
spk_0
And I want to talk to you a little bit about how, so okay.
spk_0
So you went from being a porn performer and then sex worker, which I feel like with that,
spk_0
I never considered dancing sex work.
spk_0
Is that not, is it considered sex work?
spk_0
I think it's a really personal decision on whether or not to identify as a sex worker.
spk_0
I've definitely met dancers that get a little put off if the just like general net of sex work is cast on them.
spk_0
But for me, especially working in some of the clubs that I was working in to some degree,
spk_0
were full service.
spk_0
And, you know, I'm not talking badly about any clubs that are out there, VIP rooms or who's doing what where.
spk_0
But for me, as a stripper, I would have and do classify dancing as sex work.
spk_0
I know many other dancers that feel the same, even if they aren't engaging in full service sex work within the club.
spk_0
I know that many of them very much feel the same way because if things like the mental toll,
spk_0
the emotional labor that they're doing, the therapy that they're doing with their customers and their
spk_0
clients and the clubs, the time that they're giving them and just that they're naked.
spk_0
But they're naked and they're vulnerable with people.
spk_0
So they become their therapist.
spk_0
They're naked therapists.
spk_0
Yeah, absolutely.
spk_0
That was a great question.
spk_0
I feel bad because I was really wanting to make sure that I honor sex workers and I get,
spk_0
but I guess it's a matter of what the person prefers.
spk_0
That's really.
spk_0
And that makes sense.
spk_0
And yeah, and okay, so there's nothing wrong with sex work everyone.
spk_0
We're so glad that sex work exists when it's consensual and people make the choices that they do to be in that field.
spk_0
And so okay, so we're talking about sex work and then porn performer.
spk_0
I want to give you a pro tip really.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
spk_0
spk_0
But I think this is so important.
spk_0
You'd mention that you like going to strip clubs and you like talking to dancers and,
spk_0
you know, getting to know them and learning more about them.
spk_0
Listen, this is my favorite thing to do when I'm in a strip club.
spk_0
When I'm in a strip club to feature, obviously everybody's going to know who I am.
spk_0
So I can't like fly under the radar or go in Cognito at all.
spk_0
So when I am performing at a strip club, I'll go in a day early or maybe a couple of hours early
spk_0
and spend that time like you were talking about, like talking to the dancers and throwing money on the stage.
spk_0
But here's the other thing I do.
spk_0
I find out either through the dancers themselves or like the house mom or maybe some of the management.
spk_0
I find out which ones have side hustles and I will promote them on my Instagram.
spk_0
I will spend money on them because so many, look, it's really hard to make it in the world right now for everyone.
spk_0
Everybody's got side hustles at one of the last clubs that I was at in Philly, shout out to Pixie.
spk_0
I met a dancer who has an amazing line of dancewear that she makes herself.
spk_0
It's phenomenal. So I supported her that way, you know, and I think I think stuff like that is
spk_0
really important. Obviously, I'll have a massive platform.
spk_0
Just go out and watch their side hustle is.
spk_0
Yeah, I will.
spk_0
And when I'm in a strip club, if I see dude sitting there and they haven't thrown any money,
spk_0
I go up to them. I'm like, what are you doing?
spk_0
Yeah, it's your bills. I've seen her do this.
spk_0
And every, every, every club I've been at because I get angry.
spk_0
I'm like, you know, they are working hard and I'm making it rain and usually that's why the
spk_0
women will come to me and be like, are you like, are you a dancer? I'm like, no, but you deserve as much
spk_0
money as I can get out of these motherfuckers that are sitting here right now.
spk_0
Totally.
spk_0
He's spending money not sitting here just staring.
spk_0
So anyway, that's that's by journey.
spk_0
Which is excellent.
spk_0
I'm too guy.
spk_0
I come up to a guy if I'm not working.
spk_0
I come up to a guy that maybe a group of guys, they have money on the table and I'm like,
spk_0
do you want me to teach you how to tip?
spk_0
Come with me.
spk_0
Come with me. Let's go tip them.
spk_0
And so we all get some money and then we all go over and I'm like, do it like this.
spk_0
And yeah, well, that's much more gentle. I might take that advice and use that next time.
spk_0
See the way you do a book is it works half the time.
spk_0
I'll do it.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
I've built that, but I kind of make them see how you spend some money.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Thank you.
spk_0
Okay. So one more tangent before, because that my question, have you been to the vegan
spk_0
strip clubs in Portland, where they only allow $2 bills and no dollars to be thrown?
spk_0
No, but why tell you two things?
spk_0
I'm a vegetarian, sometimes vegan.
spk_0
So that's perfect for me.
spk_0
Also, my best friend just moved up to Vancouver, Washington.
spk_0
So it's super close and also randomly, I happen to have a collection of $2 bills.
spk_0
Oh, perfect.
spk_0
Okay. So this is meant to be massive.
spk_0
I kind of wish that you and I could go on a date to the vegan strip club because I love that place.
spk_0
I get sucked in.
spk_0
I'll stay until the wee hours.
spk_0
And you can't touch them, which I love to like in less, but I got accosted by one of the dancers
spk_0
because I was like not touching and then she just took my head and put it in her boobs and was like,
spk_0
I was like, that's not gonna stretch.
spk_0
I'm gonna get a sticker.
spk_0
I'm gonna give you more money.
spk_0
I'll give you more money, though, for that.
spk_0
I'll wear a tag that says you have consent.
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
Nice.
spk_0
Nice.
spk_0
I needed to get to know her more before that.
spk_0
But it was sure.
spk_0
I'm still in here.
spk_0
So okay, so my question is so sorry.
spk_0
I just, it's so exciting talking to you.
spk_0
So okay, so how does, you kind of mentioned how you went to that space of becoming a sex educator.
spk_0
How does that area of your life now take into account the previous journeys that you experience?
spk_0
Like becoming a sex educator and using the sex work and the porn performance to help change
spk_0
the world and help people have more pleasure.
spk_0
How do you go from that and how did you do it?
spk_0
That's a really good question.
spk_0
So I think it's kind of two answers within this.
spk_0
How I, how I did the mental gymnastics that took me from one place to the next was
spk_0
I saw a need that needed to be filled, no pun intended.
spk_0
People needed this education.
spk_0
I played the card, like I played the porn star card, like,
spk_0
oh, people are gonna come to these appearances to see the porn star.
spk_0
But essentially what's happening is they're getting some very factual information that they can
spk_0
apply for their sex life with great success.
spk_0
And some of them would kind of leave surprise.
spk_0
And it's like, you know, it's the microaggressions that I mean, I'm sure even you all deal with,
spk_0
right?
spk_0
Oh, you're so smart for a porn star or how did you get to do all this before, you know,
spk_0
you were just a porn star.
spk_0
Well, I got all that and I just sort of powered through it and I realized that if people had expectations
spk_0
of me that didn't reflect who I am as a person, a human being, an educator, a sex worker, whatever,
spk_0
that was on them, not me.
spk_0
So mentally, that's sort of the way I got from A to B.
spk_0
But technically, here's how I did it.
spk_0
We could sensual care has been around for 13 years now.
spk_0
At the same time, we could pictures still existed.
spk_0
I was a contract performer for wicked pictures before they were sold during COVID.
spk_0
And as wicked sensual care was created, I sort of had my hands in all of that.
spk_0
Like, my opinion was asked, I made recommendations based on certain things.
spk_0
Like, we wanted to create products and we were defining our brand.
spk_0
So I got to be in the imagination portion of that process to determine what this brand looks like,
spk_0
what are our ethics? What do we stand for? What are our goals?
spk_0
So then came my opportunity to be the Enhoussex educator here at the company, which I did for a few
spk_0
years. And then we realized that my influence was more that of a brand strategist.
spk_0
So I became the brand strategist for the company and like I was mentioning for maybe a little bit
spk_0
longer five years ago, I really started to do things in marketing and product development
spk_0
that were having an impact on the company as a whole.
spk_0
And so I got a lot more interested in that.
spk_0
And I sort of honed those skills.
spk_0
And I'm still like the resident sex educator, you know,
spk_0
when a consumer or a retailer or distributor has a question about a line or a product or even
spk_0
an ingredient, I'm there go to my work wife, which is more than my work wife.
spk_0
She's wifey and my phone.
spk_0
My coworker Cassie is literally the other house with my brain.
spk_0
So so much of what I'm talking about, we share these responsibilities.
spk_0
So whether it's brand strategy, marketing, product development, creating new products,
spk_0
like we share in this and it is by far one of the greatest relationships.
spk_0
And certainly is the best work relationship that I've ever had.
spk_0
And I still have my toes dabbling in content creation because it's for me, it's an artistic
spk_0
expression. And I love sex.
spk_0
Absolutely. Just love being really experimental.
spk_0
So I would say that at this point in my life, I'm probably 70%
spk_0
marketing product development, public speaking brand strategy and still 30% performer.
spk_0
I'll actually be in New York in December doing a series of dance bookings.
spk_0
No, still a stripper at heart.
spk_0
But just all these extra hats.
spk_0
But no pants.
spk_0
Yeah, no, but no, yeah, sometimes no top.
spk_0
This depends.
spk_0
Yeah, you never know.
spk_0
Yeah, or maybe like minimal pants.
spk_0
We're certain people.
spk_0
I think there's a Ted talk about this.
spk_0
There's certain people who do really well just doing one thing.
spk_0
And then there's a lot of people such as myself.
spk_0
I know April as well.
spk_0
And you, I think April would agree, do really well.
spk_0
Or enjoy our careers or life for the most when we wear all these different hats.
spk_0
And also I think it's just really safe.
spk_0
I've done how heavy some of the hats.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
spk_0
It's true.
spk_0
All ones.
spk_0
Like, yeah, little tiny hats.
spk_0
Party hats.
spk_0
Yeah, like little small ones.
spk_0
And then and also it's just kind of wise, right?
spk_0
Like if one, one, one job or something doesn't go well, you got all these other ones.
spk_0
So I appreciate that.
spk_0
And I'm, obviously you have the field of human sexuality.
spk_0
But we've discovered so many different avenues, right?
spk_0
I used to, I thought it was going to be a sex therapist.
spk_0
I became a coach.
spk_0
I own a sex shop with my mom.
spk_0
We still own purepullishershop.com online.
spk_0
We have the podcast.
spk_0
We wrote a book.
spk_0
You know, I work with clients.
spk_0
This is all these things.
spk_0
So I love what you all that you wear.
spk_0
All these little party hats.
spk_0
Fact.
spk_0
Most pussy owners need some sort of clitorial stimulation to orgasm.
spk_0
And many are not having orgasms from penetrative sex.
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They call it OMG, yes, for a reason.
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I have a question though, so you've been in the industry for almost 25 years, I believe.
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Yes, I came in in 99.
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99, all right.
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Oh, yeah, at the end of 99.
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And so, okay, yes, and so.
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End of 99, yes, so coming up on 25 years, so I'm curious what kinds of changes or challenges
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you've seen over the years in the industry.
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Well, how much time do we have?
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I know, maybe the top ones.
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Yes, we'll do the condensed version for this show.
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I think the ones that I will speak to in the beginning, not in the beginning of porn,
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but like in the beginning of my time in porn.
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The business was just so male-driven.
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Men were in control, men were calling the shots, men were the studio owners, the company owners,
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men were making the decisions.
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Man, it's just men, men, men, men, men.
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And when we think about how society can dictate what the beauty standards are for that period of time,
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we also have to consider how porn plays into that.
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And what mainstream media's representation of what porn might look like, it's all together,
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right? Like it's all connected.
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So, one of the first things that I noticed when I was new, 99, 2000, 2001,
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if there were any women, and there are exceptions to this, Tristan Terramino being one of them,
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Nina Hartley being another one. But if there were any women who had things to do with porn,
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or our industry, it was sort of like what I was afraid of when I took on a bigger role at
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with Essential Care. I thought people would think that, oh, someone's just putting my name on this,
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and I'm not really doing the work.
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But back then, they would say, oh, so and so directed this movie, a performer,
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but they didn't really. It was just men's way to make more money off of a performer's name.
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So that has been a very big change because now I'm fast forward to today.
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And I've done so many things in the industry, but I know so many other performers that have done
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really amazing things. There are so many more women-owned companies, trans-owned companies,
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black women-owned content creator platforms. Like there are so many different opportunities
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for so many different people in the industry now that they're never were back then.
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And now I'll say, I'll speak to three. When the internet got really big,
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and I received basically took us out, that was another really bad time for our industry.
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Many studios didn't survive. Many studios didn't survive.
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And Horn was no longer a product that anyone felt like they had to pay for.
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So what this did was not just take money out of the studio's pockets.
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It did do that. But it took money out of performers' pockets.
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But beyond the performers that people would see when they watched the porn,
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what a lot of people never realized was that it was the crew. It was all the people that I had
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mentioned that were on the very first set that I was on. And it was also putting all of those people
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out of business too. So I think Horn scrambled very quickly to figure out other ways to make money.
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I think that porn piracy was by far the worst thing to happen to our industry.
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When I go into colleges today and I speak, I'm talking to people who would never imagine in a
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million years that porn is something to pay for. I've literally had them ask me, but why?
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Why? Why would I pay for that? Getting really interesting right now with the age
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verification laws. So that's something that is sort of changing things. But the last difference
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that I'll speak on today. So men in charge being the first one, porn piracy being the second one.
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And the third one is what happened during COVID. So I'll never forget that COVID, that time and part
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of my life was by far the some of the hardest shit that I've ever been through. And it's been
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only recently as like I've come out of it that I've started to talk about it. But at the beginning of COVID,
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wicked pictures was sold to another company who kept me on for a year as a consultant.
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When people started shooting again, when it became safer for people to shoot again,
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I was told by this new company that they refused to shoot me because I'm a condom performer.
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Oh god. Okay. I use condoms for... Yes.
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Oh my god. That's ridiculous. Yeah. For 15 years, I only shot with condoms on penises for
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wicked pictures. I've got shelves of awards. Despite the fact that I only shot
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condoms for wicked pictures. But when that happened, when they said that to me,
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I was like sort of... It was my life's work. You know, I passed on a lot of other opportunities to
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establish a career with that company and to build a brand of myself. But you know, join it with that brand.
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And so beginning of COVID, totally shocked, companies sold, come to find out they don't want me
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after all. I came out of a 16 year relationship very unexpectedly. I was completely dumped at the
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beginning of COVID. Someone very close to me passed away eight days before we went into lockdown.
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One of my implants ruptured. Oh my god. Oh my god.
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Yeah, everything everything everything. So my first month or two of COVID was
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seriously spent in my ex's house because I was facing all kinds of housing discrimination
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because I'm a sex worker. And I was basically laying on the floor, wailing and crying for the
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first month or two of COVID. And then what happened was not just me, but performers in general
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realized that we had to figure out what we were doing because the studios weren't shooting.
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Only fans said, already been a thing before COVID. But all of a sudden, we were stuck inside,
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not shooting with other people and studios weren't shooting. So I got on only fans and
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I don't even remember maybe April or May. Once I stopped crying long enough to get up off the floor
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and do my makeup. I'm telling you if it was, I would have ruled it like a banked, completely
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banked. And I'm sure that is a thing. But once that started to happen, I very quickly realized how
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much people wanted connection, how much they wanted a very meaningful one-on-one connection with
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their favorite performers. I had come from a big budget studio. I had never shot custom videos for
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fans. And wow, were they hungry for that type of attention. So the first two months, I took
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what I had made from only fans. And I donated every bit of the money, except for what the
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percentage I was paying to only fans. I donated the rest of it in its entirety to sex workers
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impacted by COVID, to the street-based sex workers who were not able to leave their houses,
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to strippers who were having to pivot to online platforms. But they didn't have a following.
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So it wasn't really translating. I took the name that I had and jumped on only fans. So I was
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immediately successful on only fans. It didn't feel ethical to keep all that money at least the
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first two months. So it was my goal. And it was kind of a game, right? I was like, yeah, for the first
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two months, I'm going to do this. And when I went to go and donate that money, I was like, oh, this
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is massive. Like, this is a really big platform. This is a really big deal. I continued to make
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great money on the platform. And I watched as other platforms sprung up. I also watched as
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studios came to the realization that performers don't need studios. Studios need performers.
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Ah, fine. So yeah. And I think that we also saw this great thing where people that maybe didn't
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match the aesthetic of what these big mainstream studios thought their customer base wanted to see.
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Their viewers wanted to see. It was all wrong. Like, the studios were wrong about that. And
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performers were able to create their own fan bases, be their own bosses, work with exactly who
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they wanted to work with, choose their own hours. We didn't have to go get yelled at by a shitty
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director on a porn set. We didn't have to do that anymore. We got to take absolute control
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in our own hands. And people ask me all the time what I returned to studio shooting.
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The short answer is yes. I do miss being on bigger productions where I'm not calling all the shots
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because it is hard to be the writer, the director, the producer, the camera person, the lighting
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person. Do my own hair and makeup. Choose what I'm wearing. Like, it's such a, y'all know about how
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hard it is to self-produce. Like, it's such a headache. But it would have to be the right fit,
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the right studio and the right people, you know, in order for me to return to studio porn.
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But I think those are the biggest changes that I have seen in my 25 years in this industry,
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just to say it out loud. It's like, it's so wild to me. And I don't want to gloss over everything
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and be like, oh my god, my time in porn has been absolute perfection. Because no, it is a job
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and like all jobs, there are good things and there are bad things. But there's really nothing
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in the 25 years that I wished, well, maybe one or two things, people, things, whatever.
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But you know, it's all part of the growth and like my own personal growth and it's the evolution
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of an industry who absolutely had their me to a moment and continues to have it's me to a moment.
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And so these are, you know, things are evolving and changing as they always do. So it'll be really
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interesting to me five years, 10 years, 20 years down the line. Even if I'm not actively performing
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or shaking my ass on stage anymore, I am sure that I will always have something to do with
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this business. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens in the future. Please don't
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ever leave. I don't care if you're 99 years old and you know, you got a bad hip. I'll care.
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You will give the people what they want. And that is I'm a lifer. Yeah, I'm a lifer for sure.
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Nina Hartley told me that. But she was like, all right, you're going to be a lifer like me.
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Nina's amazing. I love Nina. Nina starting to do some stuff again to
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some shout out. She's on her show in person. It was really fun. It was so cool. And she hadn't been,
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she hadn't been like recorded, recorded, yeah, recorded for a long time. She had chosen to
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kind of step back for a bit, which was awesome. And she's also just such a pivotal human in this
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industry. So it's great to see her back out in action. Right. It was a role model for me.
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Big time. Yeah. And Tristan, both of them. Yeah. Tristan on the show too. We were like, we're so
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then they all knew you look at us. I know. We could close the show down. We're good.
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It's okay for people to take breaks. That's one thing I think, like no matter what career, whether
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you're a performer or podcaster or a sex worker or an accountant. Yeah. Sometimes you
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burn out is a real thing. And we got to honor ourselves. The US is so interesting. And this is
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a tangent. But we're so like, you could live to work. You don't work to live. Which if you go other
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places, it's people have more quality of life. And I invite and encourage everyone to think about
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that and do more for yourself. I'm talking to myself too. Because I've been burning the candle
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up. Both ends. And thank you. She spoke to me too. Thank you for the reminder. Yeah. Yeah. Me too.
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Yeah. So it's and this doesn't feel like work though. Having these conversations. That's why I
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love podcasting because we get we get to really have these real conversations with Jessica Drake.
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