330: Trump & Hegseth Blew It with Leon Panetta

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello and welcome to Politics World Rommet James Carville and I am Alheim.

spk_0 This week our guest is the former Secretary of Defense, the former Director of the Central

spk_0 Intelligence Agency, the former White House Chief of SAF and Director of the Office of

spk_0 Management and Budget, the Great Leon Peneva.

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spk_0 James, there are humongous stories this week.

spk_0 Trump and Hicks says so many top American flag officers from around the world to Quantico

spk_0 in an unprecedented act, the Justice Department under orders from the President and Dates,

spk_0 the former FBI Director, and now the government is shut down.

spk_0 Leon Panetta is a former defense secretary and CIA director, a former White House budget

spk_0 director and House Budget Committee Chair and work at the Justice Department as well

spk_0 as White House chief of state.

spk_0 There is no one, no one has qualified to talk about all this as Leon's and that Leon.

spk_0 We are honored to have you here.

spk_0 Let me start with that extraordinary meeting earlier this week.

spk_0 I thought that Trump has some 800 top military officers from around the globe to hear a

spk_0 rambling partisan offensive, 70-minute diet drug from the President was an insult to the

spk_0 flag officers and an embarrassment for the country.

spk_0 Tell me what I'm missing.

spk_0 Well, you know, Al, first of all, good to be with you and James as always.

spk_0 And, you know, I can imagine that you're talking about a room full of what, about 800

spk_0 of the best military commanders, admirals and generals, who have come from around the world.

spk_0 And all have been tested in battle.

spk_0 They know how to fight.

spk_0 They don't have to be told how to fight.

spk_0 They've got battle ribbons.

spk_0 They've got combat badges.

spk_0 And I'm sure they travel thousands of miles because they wanted to hear about our national

spk_0 defense.

spk_0 We live in a dangerous world or confronting Russia and China, North Korea, Iran, terrorists.

spk_0 They wanted to hear what is our national defense approach to protecting our country.

spk_0 And instead, as you said, what they heard were a bunch of old political talking points

spk_0 on culture wars, on threats from Brooklyn to Michigan Avenue, and how our troops can somehow be

spk_0 tested in our cities.

spk_0 They were told that we have to throw away the rules of engagement.

spk_0 They were told that somehow we need a male standard in order to judge

spk_0 whether or not men and women are entitled to be in combat.

spk_0 You know, it was, like as a former president's chief of staff,

spk_0 you know, and knowing that the president is the commander in chief,

spk_0 this was a real missed opportunity to do the right thing in dealing with a bunch of

spk_0 respected and battle-tested commanders. They just blew it, frankly. They blew it.

spk_0 Let me pick up on one or two things. Trump said that the military is trained, trained to go

spk_0 into American cities. You were defense secretary. Is that what those men and women officers

spk_0 trained for? Like, you know, the most important thing about our military

spk_0 is that we have tried and made clear that they should not be politicized. That their main job

spk_0 is to fight our foreign adversaries that threaten our country. That's what it's about. It's not

spk_0 about law enforcement. It's not about being cops in the street. You know, we have laws that make

spk_0 clear that our military is there to protect us from foreign enemies. And that's what it's about.

spk_0 And so, to suddenly talk about our primary mission being deployed into the cities of this country.

spk_0 And doing basically law enforcement is to really, in many ways, undermine the real purpose of our

spk_0 military. We, you know, look, we have the strongest military on the face of the earth.

spk_0 We've got the best fighting men and women on the face of the earth. And the purpose of that is to

spk_0 defend us and protect our national security. It's not to deploy these people to the cities in

spk_0 this country. And it's not to certainly have them train in the cities of this country. They need

spk_0 training and they get training on how to conduct wars, how to deal with drones, how to deal with

spk_0 technology, how to deal with some of the weapon systems that we're seeing today. That's what they

spk_0 need to be trained on. Not trained on the streets of America. That is just undermining the real

spk_0 purpose of having a military. Well, and that context, the administration said, hexas said, that

spk_0 they're reshaping priorities to focus more on the homeland threats and downplaying America's

spk_0 role in places like Africa and Europe. What are the consequences of that, Leon?

spk_0 Well, the consequences is that we're going to be a weaker country as a result.

spk_0 Because, you know, the real strength of our country is that we've been a world leader.

spk_0 And that goes back to World War II for 80 years. And by the way, whether you're a Republican

spk_0 president or a Democratic president, they may have had their differences on policies, but the

spk_0 reality is that when it came to national defense, they all took the same role of world leadership,

spk_0 recognized that the United States had to be a world leader, recognized that the United States had

spk_0 to build alliances, recognized that the United States had to have the strongest military in the world.

spk_0 And they were willing to stand up to dictators and to tyrants.

spk_0 Republicans and Democrats for 80 years all followed pretty much those same principles.

spk_0 And now we're being told that the main threat is on the streets of America.

spk_0 You know, if the, look, there's no question we have threats in this country. There's no question we

spk_0 have to deal with crime. But we have ways to deal with crime. It's called police. It's called law

spk_0 enforcement. It's called the FBI. Those are the ways we deal with enforcing the law here in

spk_0 this country. But when it comes to threats abroad, that's a role for the United States military.

spk_0 And that's why having 800 military commanders come to a meeting from across the world.

spk_0 And then not talk about what they're concerned about, what they're out there fighting against.

spk_0 I was just, you know, irresponsible leadership.

spk_0 Yeah, I, I'm one more than I'm going to turn over to James.

spk_0 The fence secretary Hegseth railed against woke military personnel and policies.

spk_0 By his standards, I suspect he would have called the appointment of Colin Powell woke.

spk_0 But he also, he suggested women really aren't up to being a fighting force. He did say you have

spk_0 to be fit, not fat. You know, maybe he ought to give a lecture to his commander in chief. But in any

spk_0 event, I mean, you know more about the military than almost anyone. Is it too woke and are women unfit

spk_0 for combat? You know, it really concerns me that a secretary of defense does not even begin to

spk_0 understand why we have the strongest military in the world. We have the strongest military in

spk_0 the world because we allow people to serve in the military men and women and others who want to serve

spk_0 in the United States of America. And I have to tell you I've looked into the eyes of our men and

spk_0 women in uniform. They're prepared to fight and die for our country. That's what our military is all

spk_0 about. And I've seen women be able to perform in combat. They've been, they've died in combat.

spk_0 They're out there now 200,000 women are part of our military. And they're watching each other's

spk_0 back and they're serving together. My grandson just came back from five years in the Navy.

spk_0 He was working with women every day who were serving on the same

spk_0 same carrier. So they're doing the job. They're protecting our country. And they respond to the

spk_0 mission. Look, when the president wants to go into Iran, our military comes together and does

spk_0 the mission and did it effectively. When he wants them to do other things, they do it effectively.

spk_0 So I don't know what the hell they're talking about. The fact is we have the very best military

spk_0 on the face of the earth. What they ought to be doing is trying to make sure that we maintain

spk_0 that strength in the future. And they said nothing about that.

spk_0 I'm going to turn over to James. As he says, talk to you since he's been defense secretary.

spk_0 Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. That's what I thought James.

spk_0 I want to go back to another part of your experience in your life. There's so many. But it's a

spk_0 little more mundane, but I think it's really important. Is I'll call you at a chairman of the House

spk_0 Budget Committee at one time and you would O.M.B. Director. So your fiscal talks is probably more

spk_0 than one day. But should we worry about $40 trillion in debt and that this is just not going

spk_0 to stop. It's just going to get worse. How does this, I'm hardly a deficit scold, but

spk_0 doesn't this strike you as getting a little bit out of hand?

spk_0 Well, James, you and I have been through it going back to the Clinton administration.

spk_0 And the reality was, you know, I've often said that I've seen Washington at its best and I've

spk_0 seen Washington at its worst. The good news is I've seen Washington work. I've seen Republicans

spk_0 and Democrats willing to work together to try to deal with the problems facing this country.

spk_0 And, you know, when I was a chairman of the Budget Committee, we worked with Republicans.

spk_0 And when I was in the Clinton administration, we worked together on issues.

spk_0 And it was critical at that time. We were worried about deficits. I think that we're going to run

spk_0 somewhere around $400 to $600 billion. Now we've got deficits that are approaching almost $2 trillion

spk_0 and a national debt that is somewhere around, I think the last number I saw is close to $40 trillion.

spk_0 $40 trillion national debt. And it's undermining our economy. It's undermining our strength.

spk_0 But the real problem is that neither party wants to deal with the issues that you have to deal with.

spk_0 I mean, as James know, we had to, we came up with 500 billion in deficit reduction in the Clinton

spk_0 administration. We came up with 500 billion in deficit reduction in the Bushman administration.

spk_0 Because of that, we were able to balance the federal budget and not only balance it, but have a surplus.

spk_0 Today, neither party wants to deal with the spending issues, with raising revenues,

spk_0 with the decisions that you have to make if you want to be physically responsible.

spk_0 And so both parties have walked away from discipline. We're now in a shutdown. They can't talk to

spk_0 each other. They can't work together. They are failing our democracy. I tell the kids here at

spk_0 the Panetta Institute that in a democracy, we govern either by leadership or crisis.

spk_0 If leadership is there and willing to make tough decisions and work together, you can avoid crisis.

spk_0 But if that leadership isn't there, we'll govern by crisis. And the problem today is the

spk_0 United States of America is largely being governed by crisis.

spk_0 So let's go ahead to 2028. All right. And you know, it's early, but what kind of qualities are you

spk_0 hoping that we see in the democratic nominee? I don't think I think we know pretty much where

spk_0 Republican code is going, but when a democratic party goes, is not a settled question.

spk_0 And so just talk about some of the qualities that you'll be looking for in potential

spk_0 presidential candidates. James, I think the problem we've had is that recent presidents have not

spk_0 really confronted the issue of the divisions in this country. Joe Biden talked about unifying

spk_0 the country. He really didn't do it. And Trump certainly hasn't done it. This country is badly

spk_0 divided. It's badly divided. But deep down, I don't care whether you're from a red state or a

spk_0 blue state. There are basic values that all Americans have. They want to raise their family. They

spk_0 want to educate their kids. They want to deal with the healthcare problems in their family.

spk_0 They want to have a house. They want to have a job. Those are the basic values of all Americans.

spk_0 We need a candidate who can speak to those basic values and who cares about bringing this country

spk_0 together, whether you're in a red state or a blue state. If this is all about political base,

spk_0 if it's all about playing to the old base that we've had, then we'll continue to be divided.

spk_0 We need somebody that's going to stand up and really try to unify this country and speaks to

spk_0 the values that we care about. Look, to put it very simply, we probably need a Bill Clinton type,

spk_0 who kind of understands what this country is all about, understands what people need,

spk_0 and can speak to their issues in a way that they understand. That's the kind of leader we need.

spk_0 I have one question. What makes you think the country wants to be unified?

spk_0 Maybe we assume that everybody wants to be part of the team. But I'm not

spk_0 I mean, in order to unify people that got them warned, they got to be preachers supposed to do it.

spk_0 I hope you're right, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid.

spk_0 No, I don't disagree with you James, because this is a power game right now.

spk_0 It's a power game between two parties. We've got a small margin of difference in the Congress.

spk_0 They're both fighting for power. It's been about fighting for power for the last few years.

spk_0 They haven't really tried to focus on the major issues confronting this country.

spk_0 Trump certainly hasn't done it. I don't think the Democrats have done a good job trying to

spk_0 address the problems in this country and come up with a vision about where we need to go as a country.

spk_0 And so it's a hell of a lot easier to kind of be divided. It's a hell of a lot easier to just

spk_0 have a safe seat, whether it's Democrat or Republican, and just sit on it and not take any chances,

spk_0 not take any risks, just basically protect your seat.

spk_0 And that's what politics is about these days. And frankly, we need desperately to have leadership

spk_0 that's willing to take risks. And I'll tell you why, because you know, I know what's going on.

spk_0 Washington is horrible. It's going in Washington. Washington's totally dysfunction. This is dysfunctional.

spk_0 They can't sit down, you know, and decide what the hell they're going to do for lunch. Much less

spk_0 deal with the problems of the country. And so it's very divided. And yet I got to tell you something.

spk_0 When you go out into the country, and I've been out in the country and red states and blue states,

spk_0 and I go to communities, those communities still have the concern about how do they work together to

spk_0 deal with the problems that are facing their community. It's not about Democrat or Republican.

spk_0 It's about trying to solve problems. And that's where the strength of this country is. It's not in

spk_0 Washington. It's in the spirit and the kind of caring that Detokfield talked about when he came

spk_0 to this country. He said, you know, the one thing I saw in American communities is that they cared

spk_0 for one another. And they were willing to work together. Well, that's still real. And that's still

spk_0 what people care about. And what we need are leaders who speak to that strength, not speak to

spk_0 further dividing this country. So if you take a position on the California proposition about

spk_0 Gary mandering yet, I haven't really, but you know, I'm not sure we have any other choice, but to do

spk_0 what has to be done out here. You know, if Texas is going to redistrict in a way that favors

spk_0 Republicans and the president is pushing them to do it and Missouri is going to do that, I don't

spk_0 know that we can just sit on our hands and do nothing. So, you know, I understand that you got to

spk_0 fight back. It's three and only this program. We have exactly the same position you did in a vacuum.

spk_0 I wouldn't be fine. But we don't live in a vacuum. That's it. That's it. Yeah.

spk_0 Let me go to the short short. We're in a shutdown right now. I mean, you lived through shutdowns.

spk_0 It used to be short when you were in Congress. Then, Genghis made them big. And right now, the danger,

spk_0 some people say for the Democrats, if this goes on for one, it looks like it may is that it'll

spk_0 Nate Naval Trump and his budget director to slash further programs and people even more than

spk_0 they're doing. Is that a danger? It's a hell of a danger. Because you've got an administration that

spk_0 doesn't abide by the rule of law. It doesn't abide by the rules that used to guide spending in this

spk_0 country. They don't believe in the power of the purse. They don't believe Congress has a role.

spk_0 And very frankly, Congress doesn't have a role. They're not playing any role. That's meaningful

spk_0 with regards to this. So, they basically have a free hand to do any damn thing they want. And

spk_0 they're going to take advantage of this and basically use it to break all of the rules. They'll fire

spk_0 people. They'll shut down programs. They'll do what Doge did at the beginning of this administration.

spk_0 They'll basically operate on that basis and we'll pay a hell of a price for that.

spk_0 So, you know, again, I mean, I understand, you know, that the Democrats feel like they've,

spk_0 you know, they've got to, they got to hang tough. But you have to know when to hang tough.

spk_0 And you have to know what you want as the price. And I just get the sense that they kind of through

spk_0 healthcare out there. And look, healthcare is a great issue. I think Democrats need to support

spk_0 healthcare. But they also need to have what is a deal here? They're not in charge. The Republicans

spk_0 are in charge. What kind of deal can they make in order to try to make this happen? I mean,

spk_0 those are the days when I was there. That's what Tom Follies, that's what Tip O'Neil's,

spk_0 that's what George Mitchell's, that's what Bob Dole did. Everybody sat down and figured out,

spk_0 okay, how do we cut a deal here and try to keep the government running? That process doesn't take

spk_0 place now. And so, you've got people, you've got people who are in the trenches. They're throwing

spk_0 grenades at one another and nobody's willing to get out of their trench in a no man's land

spk_0 and try to see if they can cut some kind of deal. And we're going to pay the price for it.

spk_0 The America people are going to pay the price for it. Look, I think we've got a shaky economy

spk_0 right now as a result of tariffs, as a result of inflation, as a result of trade problems,

spk_0 as a result, frankly, of people not being, not feeling confident about where our economy is going.

spk_0 Everybody is nervous about where it's going. We're now in a shutdown. It's going to cost us.

spk_0 And I think it's going to help, it's going to undermine our economy even more.

spk_0 We're playing with fire right now. And I think there's a real possibility we could have an

spk_0 economic crisis in this country within the next few months. You mentioned the rule of law a

spk_0 moment ago. The Justice Department indicted the former FBI director, James Comey, at the

spk_0 instruction of President Trump, the acting U.S. Attorney there said there's no basis for it.

spk_0 He was fired. They brought in a Trump lack. He would know experience. Is this renderscent

spk_0 or worse than the Watergate crises that you live through?

spk_0 I think it's worse because I went through Watergate. But even at that time,

spk_0 although the President did what he did, I think the reality is that there was at least some respect

spk_0 for the rule of law. And there was a recognition that, you know, presidents, no matter

spk_0 what party you come from, have some basic values that they stand by. That's all out the window

spk_0 right now. That's all out the window. I don't know that anybody is willing to stand by the rule

spk_0 of law, stand by the Constitution. Now, the courts are trying to do what they can. They'll continue to

spk_0 do it. God bless them that there are judges out there who are strong enough to make the right

spk_0 decisions. That's probably the one institution in our democracy that's still working.

spk_0 But as we know, it takes time. And a lot of damage can occur in the meantime.

spk_0 And so, you know, when you have a president who basically is, you know, he's not enforcing the law,

spk_0 he's abusing the law in order to go after political enemies. I mean, that is something that we've,

spk_0 I don't think we've ever seen, at least in my lifetime, in terms of the role of the Justice Department.

spk_0 Leon, you, I used to think that only crazy conspiracy nuts talked about a police state.

spk_0 But when you go picking up on some of what you just said, sending troops in the cities,

spk_0 attacking perceived enemies, it really doesn't seem as crazy to worry that America is turning into

spk_0 a police state. Yeah, no, I think I think a lot of Americans are concerned because, you know,

spk_0 we've all believed deeply in the Constitution. I mean, you know, people that are elected,

spk_0 including Trump, swear an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

spk_0 And yet they don't, they're not abiding by that Constitution. And they're not abiding by the rule

spk_0 of law. And very frankly, the rule of law is critical to our democracy. The only way we survive

spk_0 as a democracy, the only way we're able to have a voice and to be able to be out there and work

spk_0 together is because we have a democracy, we have a Constitution that respects our right of free

spk_0 speech and our right of participation. And when, when we start to weaken those institutions,

spk_0 and when you have somebody who's prepared to take advantage of that as president of the United

spk_0 States, then your damn rights we have to worry. We have to worry. And it's a time when we have

spk_0 to stand up. And I look, I still believe that most Americans in this country really believe in the

spk_0 United States of America and love our country for what it is and love our Constitution and do abide

spk_0 by the rule of law. And I think most Americans are concerned about what they see happening in

spk_0 Washington. And what we need to do is to now become a voice. We need to have voices out there.

spk_0 We need to have leaders out there that are willing to say this is not what America is about.

spk_0 This is not what America is about. It's not the America that we fought for. It's not the America

spk_0 that are that are founding fathers built for the future. It's not the America that we fought

spk_0 in the Civil War and in World Wars. It's an America that's changing our fundamental values.

spk_0 People have got to have the guts now to stand up and say that. And instead, everybody's running

spk_0 for cover. And that, I think, is what worries me more than anything. As I ask myself, where in the

spk_0 hell are the leaders who used to stand up and say, this is not going to happen on my watch?

spk_0 James.

spk_0 Don't let me end up, obviously, it was out at your places in Monterey County and you talked about

spk_0 all the challenges that the economy faces and it's pretty daunting. But one I like to speak to

spk_0 because it's an issue that you live with, you know, all of your life and still do and that's the

spk_0 issue of immigration. And just you live it in a place that anybody's been that part of the world

spk_0 knows it immigration. It plays an essential part in the economy, but not just our all over the country.

spk_0 Tell us about your experience of immigration and how you think what the best way to kind of

spk_0 how this is going to follow. Well, as you know, James, I'm the son of Italian immigrants.

spk_0 My parents came to this company like millions of years.

spk_0 But I look at I'm a believer that that we are the land of immigrants and that that's what the

spk_0 Statue of Liberty is all about. I mean, you know, I found it a little interesting that that yesterday

spk_0 at that meeting, they're talking about, you know, not pushing diversity and you look out at that

spk_0 audience and it is diversity because America is a diverse country. It's a cross section of America.

spk_0 We are diverse and it's our strength. It's not our weakness. It's our strength.

spk_0 And you know, look, I understand the concern about the border. I think Biden failed to deal with

spk_0 controlling the border and deal with immigration. But I don't think we should walk away

spk_0 from what is one of the core strengths of America, which is that we have opened up our doors to people

spk_0 from across the world to come here and be able to succeed at the American dream. I'm going to

spk_0 tell you know, I'm the son of Italian immigrants. I live the American dream. That's what people want

spk_0 is to be able to have a piece of the American dream. And I don't I think that yeah, sure, we need to be

spk_0 strong on the border, but you know what? We also need to have a process for dealing with people

spk_0 that want to come to this country. We still need comprehensive immigration reform. And for the

spk_0 life of me, I don't know why the Democrats haven't stood up and said, we need comprehensive

spk_0 immigration reform. It's not just about the board. It's about how do we treat people? How do we

spk_0 how do we deal with people that want to come into this country in the right way? And in a way that

spk_0 that obviously respects their their individual rights. So I think we've lost our way

spk_0 when it comes to immigration. And you know what? Is it? Whatever Trump thinks, this country isn't

spk_0 going to change. I mean, it isn't just going into California, going to the Midwest, going to the

spk_0 Northeast. These are diverse communities. They're made up of immigrants from across the world.

spk_0 That's our strength. That's not going to go away. And somehow we've got to get back to the human

spk_0 side of immigration in the sense of doing it right. Agreed. Afro-foutly, Alibut. No, I just want to

spk_0 tell you, this is as interesting a conversation as we've had in a long time. I can't say it's uplifting

spk_0 because the the the the message by definition is depressing because what's happening is depressing.

spk_0 But I certainly think you've laid out some roadmaps and also talked about some really, really,

spk_0 serious problems. And I said to begin with, there was no one, no one, more burst, better qualified,

spk_0 more knowledgeable to talk about the issues we especially than Leon Panetta. And I don't know,

spk_0 maybe your son would argue Leon that, but but you are and you've been a great guest and we just

spk_0 can't thank you enough. Yeah, great friend. Well, friendship goes back. Our friendship goes back

spk_0 a long way. As I said, we saw, you know, we've seen Washington work. We've seen Washington when

spk_0 it doesn't work. And I think we all have to do is remember that somehow we got to get back

spk_0 to the principles that represent governing our democracy and try to inspire people to

spk_0 provide the right kind of leadership in this country. Look, I don't I'm not going to give up on

spk_0 America. I want to make change. I'm sure that we have a future. Everybody hates alternative

spk_0 history. If Al Gore would have taken my recommendation in 2000, picked you to be vice president,

spk_0 we'd have won the election and we wouldn't have any other shit that you would have been president

spk_0 from 8 to 60. But all right. So, but anyway, you really have been terrific. Thank you very

spk_0 much. We just I mean, I really I'm just enormously grateful and appreciate for you doing

spk_0 well. We are. We are. James good to be with you. And then we'll see we'll see you down the road, pal.

spk_0 Style yourself with quips. You know, when you look at the quality of that stuff and how well

spk_0 this design and put together what it means, I'll just say there's I'm in Rome right now in Italy.

spk_0 The Italians, they don't they were good watches and they were good clothes. I'm about that's

spk_0 just part of their culture. But that amount of income that they spend on clothes and accessories

spk_0 has got to be some of the highest in the world. And you can get to stuff for I don't say next to

spk_0 nothing, but you can get really good stuff. And it's just really well done. When everybody in the

spk_0 world knows that to mark up in textiles and clothes is six, they in percent and these people

spk_0 have just cut it down to almost nothing and clothing can be a really affordable and good part of

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spk_0 our show notes. James, the honest political story, at least outside of Washington this week,

spk_0 is a jersey where Republicans are putting out an unauthorized leak that Mikey Sheryl didn't

spk_0 walk with her naval academy graduation class some 30 years ago because she didn't turn in some

spk_0 classmates who had cheated on an exam. Now, Sheryl graduated with that class. She was commissioned

spk_0 as an officer then. She served almost 10 years as a Navy helicopter pilot received two

spk_0 commendations for her heroism. And certainly if she didn't turn in people, which apparently did not,

spk_0 who were cheating, that was a violation of the honor code and I think the punishment was just,

spk_0 but her record is exactly her. And Jack Chikarelli, the Republican candidate, may want to say away

spk_0 from this is someone who didn't serve attacking someone who served honorably. They're also going

spk_0 after her last couple days because her two children were admitted to the naval academy.

spk_0 I would think that's something that people in the jersey would be very proud of. But instead,

spk_0 they're screaming that somehow they got favoritism. That's not the way the academies were. So James,

spk_0 I think this is a blip. I think that come November, Sheryl wins by high, single digits.

spk_0 That's more than Phil Murphy won by last time a lot more.

spk_0 Well, at first of all, would you say it's unsuscrutable and true, she has not been a great candidate.

spk_0 I mean, she's a great person. She has a great resume. But remember, they had a pretty good,

spk_0 she did very well in, but they had a pretty split Democratic primary. And she, I agree with you,

spk_0 I think she'll win, I think she'll win in her single digits. But you know, they got to do a better

spk_0 job. And too many people have told me that her campaigns so far don't get high marks. Now,

spk_0 the good news is they have time to adjust, okay, and I hope they do. And I think they will.

spk_0 But since, actually, he's not governed by anything. He'll say anything. He'll, he'll, you know,

spk_0 start a fight. And it's going to take some cleverness to win like you should win. I think they will.

spk_0 But you got to run more than you're resume. And I've heard that critique from too many people

spk_0 not to take it seriously. I remember John McCain telling me that he gave John Kerry advice

spk_0 when Kerry was running in 04. He said, John, let me tell you something. Man, no, nothing better

spk_0 than to be a hero, nothing better than to have a great resume. You know what that does, John,

spk_0 that gets you in the door. But once you get inside that door, you have to have something to say.

spk_0 I think watching her as a member of Congress, I don't disagree with your analysis of her campaign,

spk_0 but watching her as a member of Congress, I think in these final five weeks, you will have something

spk_0 to say. I think she's going to win. But I agree with you, but for a record, she's not there yet.

spk_0 She probably won if she doesn't get there, but she can do a lot better in her campaign,

spk_0 and get a lot better. Yeah. New York City, Eric Adams, the mayor dropped out. You know,

spk_0 Eric Adams, four years ago, came in with promise. He beat some left wing candidates then. He was a

spk_0 black former police officer. He talked about reform. He's leaving disgraced. He was not a good mayor.

spk_0 He got out of an indictment because it was a sleazy deal that he cut with Donald Trump.

spk_0 He was only getting seven percent in the polls. And I'm sorry, establishment. This isn't going to

spk_0 matter. Andrew Cuomo is not going to win the New York mayority race. The guy you don't like is

spk_0 going to win it. And that's just the reality. Well, okay. I will give us some credit. I remember

spk_0 this distinctly when that mayor's race four years ago was going on, we talk and we often do.

spk_0 And we both sort of things. I would vote for Eric Adams, but this is not going to end well.

spk_0 All right. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 The problem is to this day, and I'm wondering if people think that Andrew was about a government

spk_0 and didn't even give him credit for him. That's not the issue here.

spk_0 He doesn't give anybody a reason to vote for him after all of this.

spk_0 I don't see him bragging through on anything other than I'm qualified. And we know that

spk_0 who is ever more qualified presidential candidate than George H. W. Bush in 92.

spk_0 Maybe it is never. I mean, for qualifications, qualifications don't win elections.

spk_0 And Mandani is in giving him credit. He sees and repeats the issue today.

spk_0 It's cost of living. And he's got a fresh new look to it. I agree he's going to win.

spk_0 And he might be. He might turn out to be a pretty good mayor. We were right about Eric Adams.

spk_0 Maybe I hope I'll hopefully write about Mandani. Yeah. He also is the one thing he is,

spk_0 which Andrew Cuomo is not. He's an upbeat guy. I mean, you know, I may think some of the stuff he's

spk_0 saying I do as a matter of fact, is naive. He's not going to be able to get it done. But he

spk_0 conveys a optimism, a can-do optimism. Andrew Cuomo conveys a darkness. And I think it would

spk_0 have been uphill under any circumstance. But my guess is that 7% of the vote that Eric Adams

spk_0 got a number of them will say home. Some of them will vote for Andrews. Some of them will

spk_0 vote for Mdabi. It won't make any difference at all. And I'm sure the Republicans will try to

spk_0 pressure the Republican Trump will try to pressure the Republican candidate out who's getting

spk_0 15%. That's not going to matter either. Yeah, I don't. Again,

spk_0 from what I can see and I've got probably read about it, you know,

spk_0 valid diligently. He's the only guy that's given a reason to vote for him.

spk_0 And so it's hard for me to see how he loses. And I think people in New York feel like

spk_0 only the guys got some energies, got some youth around him. Maybe

spk_0 who knows? He had some bad ideas before. Maybe he'll have some good ideas going forward.

spk_0 We can hope. Yeah. Well, he seems like a skilled guy. I hope he turned out to be a bit

spk_0 mailed. New York's most important city in the world. I love going to have my daughter with

spk_0 this. I want him to have a good mayor. Yeah, I do too. And I just final word about Adams.

spk_0 We ought to remember that Adams, I mentioned in passing that sleazy deal, Adams was under

spk_0 indictment. And what happened? The now clearly corrupt Trump justice department came and they

spk_0 said, we're going to drop it if you agree to do X, Y and Z and support us on immigration and a

spk_0 whole lot of other issues. The US attorney up there who was a federal society member, a woman

spk_0 is a bonafide conservative said, I'm not going to do that kind of a deal. That's corrupt.

spk_0 And of course, the what was his aim? And you know, both who's now on the on the New Jersey court

spk_0 or the US court of appeals fired her and he cut the deal. So it was really, really sleazy. And

spk_0 Eric Adams, Eric Adams is going out. Is it really discredited? Sad figure.

spk_0 Well, they've thrown out in handcuffs. So he's ahead of the game. Where he should be.

spk_0 Yeah, I suppose I don't know. Anyway, we'll see what happens to him.

spk_0 Virginia, not much. I think the only impact in Virginia, which is the other race, is going to be held

spk_0 in November, is that I, I suspect Northern Virginia will be very much affected by this government shutdown.

spk_0 And my guess is this is just a guess because it kind of plays into the larger picture. I think if

spk_0 anything, it's going to help Spamberger who's already headed to a double, did you win?

spk_0 Because when he comes to the question of do you want, you know, some kind of active government,

spk_0 certainly people are going to identify more with her than with her opponent.

spk_0 May not have much impact at all, but it's not going to slow Spamberger. Let me put it that way.

spk_0 Right. So, Sears, so the candidates of Abigail's,

spk_0 and Winsom, Earl Sears, are open. They go on all in on trains.

spk_0 Now, you say they're doing that because they're demagogues or that there's only six

spk_0 tenths of one percent of the people in trains. Why should we attack these people?

spk_0 It's our example. The reason they're doing that, because they have nothing else.

spk_0 Right. Right. If you're hitting around trying to come up well,

spk_0 you're part of the incumbent administration in Richmond. You're part of the incumbent administration.

spk_0 In Washington, you're at all kind of different people in your ticket. You have nothing.

spk_0 The only thing we can talk about are trans people. It's not that, of course, they're willing to use

spk_0 anybody or anything to win a election, but they don't have anything else. That's their default position.

spk_0 And she doesn't have... Yolk and Bailey doesn't say anything. She doesn't depend him.

spk_0 She can't say anything about Trump. She's getting slaughtered by... By the way,

spk_0 we know that Fairfax in Loudon are going to really come in strong Democrats and the layoff as

spk_0 don't forget the tidewater that Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Newport.

spk_0 With the whole house raised down there next year too, so a lot of energy.

spk_0 And remember the Democrats carried a scam, you county Florida, first of all, in I don't know,

spk_0 60 years, which along with Hampton roads are two biggest Navy populations in a country.

spk_0 Watch that number coming out of Hampton roads. The Democrats are going to do very well.

spk_0 We'll do. I think the only race there that really is in any doubt is the race for attorney general,

spk_0 which is really, really important. But again, I think that if Bamberger wins by double digits,

spk_0 they're going to win a turn. I'll say that something. If we think she's going to win by double digits,

spk_0 at what number could the numbers not at most three? I don't even think it's that.

spk_0 But it's hard to rationalize that she's going to win big, but we could lose a G's race.

spk_0 I can't see that happening. I really can't.

spk_0 Well, it's happened before, but it's not very likely to happen. And I think that

spk_0 the AG County, it's apparently pretty good County, running against an incumbent.

spk_0 But that's where all that's where all the Republican efforts are now because that's what they

spk_0 have to have a whole lot of money in it. Right.

spk_0 Right. They got to have a talking.

spk_0 In politics, it's impossible to say nothing. So you said, well, you look you're down by X in the

spk_0 latest Rorno college, you know, Christopher Newport College or whatever times a spat. Oh,

spk_0 and you go, aha, with the attorney general, you watch that. Because it's always they got

spk_0 left to say there's nothing else to say. I mean, we got a great attorney general's candidate.

spk_0 You know, overcom that kind of lead.

spk_0 That's for sure. You would be the greatest candidate that ever lived.

spk_0 It's Fran Merkel, one five, 13 and he went into the AG.

spk_0 Well, I would just add the one thing we don't want to forget, there also is a critically important

spk_0 ballot initiative in the state of California. Because the Republicans are cheating everywhere,

spk_0 to try to fix it. They got Missouri this week. They got a couple more they're going to get.

spk_0 It's absolutely essential to win that ballot initiative in California, which I think they will.

spk_0 Everything. A great Democratic talking point. Nothing to public would get this. It's not inside.

spk_0 They're doing everything they can not dissuade and this woman from Tucson.

spk_0 All right. They go, well, the house is not inside because she's to vote to subpoena the Epstein stuff.

spk_0 They literally slow walk in a person that won an election. I think about 50 fucking points.

spk_0 Right. Well, we hadn't got the paperwork yet. Now, I get the official certification.

spk_0 And they're doing it right in front of you. And they point now that some,

spk_0 you know, a Republican one of race and Florida's earlier this year.

spk_0 And put the person in 36 hours.

spk_0 We're gonna think about that.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 And I mean, there's no dispute over who won.

spk_0 It's unbelievable.

spk_0 Yeah, it really is. It really is.

spk_0 All right.

spk_0 Oh, necked him from Jeffrey Epstein.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Okay. We got a lot more to discuss in these next six weeks.

spk_0 Hey, now for the outrage of the week.

spk_0 James, as you so well know, one of the great stains, shams in American history was the lost cause,

spk_0 which for almost a century perpetrated the lie that the Civil War was not about slavery,

spk_0 which of course it was. And the South and his general Robert E. Lee were noble while the Yankee

spk_0 General Elysses as Grant was a disgraceful drunk. Grant actually was a brilliant general and Lee

spk_0 was a traitor to his country. Donald Trump and a brand of his contemporary bandits are replaying

spk_0 this now about January the 6th, the violent insurrection on the Capitol. The law they are

spk_0 spain spending is that these were just on his Trump protesters up there to talk about an election.

spk_0 And the violence was fueled by there was violence. We all saw it. You know, it was fueled by

spk_0 Cornington James FBI agents and other undercover operatives. You know, we saw the horror with

spk_0 our own eyes. Their hero, the late Ashley Babitt, was shot because she illegally tried to force

spk_0 her way into the house chamber amid all the violence. We know what happened. These Trump people think

spk_0 they can fool you because you are fools. You are not. This is not going to work.

spk_0 So I'm here. I've been in Italy and Rome and I go back to Scotland. You remember they tried

spk_0 Galileo because he said, they're moving around the Sun and they convicted him. And upon conviction,

spk_0 his statement was, yet it still moves. Okay, it's got to be a great quote. Yes. Okay.

spk_0 It didn't matter. You can. Reading this story from, it's actually a hoved in post for the

spk_0 period is about a woman named Baptiste. So I'm pretty sure it has family history in your arms.

spk_0 But I'm going to read this to you. Schools across the country banned 6,870 books between July 2024

spk_0 in June 2025 says the report from Penn, P-E-N, all up the case America. A non-profit organization that

spk_0 advocates a free expression. The 2023, 2024 academic years are 200% increase in school bookbans

spk_0 bringing the total instances of bookbans since 2021 to nearly 23,000. Never before in the life of

spk_0 any living American. We had so many books systematic removed from school libraries across the

spk_0 country. Casey Mehan, the director of Penn America's Freedom to Read program. This is what we do

spk_0 in we're like banning books. We're like advocating for goddamn stupidity. And boy, if you want to

spk_0 lost costs to take hold again, ban the books. They're literally burning books in the United States

spk_0 today. And Florida is at the epicenter of bookburning. And we ought to resolve that any time that we

spk_0 have a chance, we should call them bookburnas because that's what they are. Bookburnas. Well James,

spk_0 I have a question because I've been told by all those conservative pundits and the Trump people

spk_0 that the real that it's the left that's the greatest danger to free speech. So are all these

spk_0 books being banned by left wingers? You know, I doubted any of them out of the 23,000

spk_0 whatever it is. I doubt it's five. I mean, it's all so absurd. But you know, if we could buy,

spk_0 we could get it back if we, you know, get a good president next time, you know, and people

spk_0 can't get through this, but you can't get through an alliterate population. And that's what they

spk_0 want. That's at the core of their fundamental breed. If you teach people to read and you teach

spk_0 people to think, and if they think they're going to find out how much we're fucking over them. So

spk_0 if we just stop them reading and stopping them thinking we can continue to steal all we want.

spk_0 And yeah, that's what the people, that's what Tom Holman who took 50 grand in a paper bag,

spk_0 where's the money? Somebody can we sell me the money? You don't want people reading about that.

spk_0 And I knew you. It's unbelievable. I mean, one thing you think about it, but going after books,

spk_0 and you know, and this year, books banning books, I can't imagine. And then they will,

spk_0 so if you read a, please allow them to select what you read.

spk_0 I just got into that loser day I was going through and I saw his old shit.

spk_0 Many times. They're not 10 America. I know them. They're a little shit organization.

spk_0 Oh, they're good. Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm very honest and very, you know, but it is, you know,

spk_0 it has become commonplace for these right winners to claim that the greatest threat to free speech

spk_0 is coming from the left. And I saw Dave Urban on television spending that bullshit the other night.

spk_0 It is so untrue. I mean, yes, there have been some from the left, some of the crazies,

spk_0 but man, it's 90% from the right book banning. I'm going to Democrat. Okay. That wants to ban books.

spk_0 All right. And when I did, I said, get, just give me a name as well. I saw this on side. Okay.

spk_0 You saw it all right. Who I haven't heard of a LC want to ban books. I hadn't heard a billion

spk_0 home wall want to ban books. I'm frank. I know I haven't heard of it. Maybe there is. But I don't know

spk_0 of any book banning is being advocated here. That's a question they do not like James. That's

spk_0 a question really makes them very uncomfortable. Right. Okay. Keep on the police. Name one.

spk_0 The single one right now. Can't do it. Okay. Now we're going to our listener questions. This is one of

spk_0 my favorite segments and James is two. Really, they are so good. And the first I'm going to combine two

spk_0 questions for the first of James because one our friend Steve is cheating a little bit. Steve says

spk_0 he's Steve is from the declining USA. Steve we're going to get let you get by this week. But next week

spk_0 tell us where you're from. And he's combined with Rob and Rosemond Pennsylvania, which is the area I

spk_0 grew up in. Steve asked from your perspective, James, what are the most effective divisions or

spk_0 types of organizations within the Democratic Party structure for someone like me to support if my

spk_0 goal is to make the greatest impact. And sort of as a corollary, Rob says could a strategy of

spk_0 focusing on the economy and governing for all Americans be the most effective strategy in 2026.

spk_0 Okay. So let's back up the first question. What's the most effective? Get involved in the campaign.

spk_0 Donate to the campaign is big house race in Bucks County. That's not very far from Rosemond. You

spk_0 don't know where declining USA. I don't know where Steve is from. But I'll tell you something.

spk_0 There's some race near declining USA wherever the hell it is. My advice is to most important thing

spk_0 that we can do is wind the election because that's 90% of the game. And I would be more into

spk_0 getting involved in campaigns. Or you know, if the question is not always true if the

spk_0 state party is confident and good, you might want to get involved with that. But the biggest thing,

spk_0 if you wind the election, good things will happen every way. If you lose, if we learned out, bad

spk_0 things happen every way. Yeah. Yeah. No. You know, that's true. When the fucking election, you know,

spk_0 uh, uh, Don in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina says, uh, I am worried that my grandchildren's grandchildren

spk_0 will not see the repairs of the norms, Trump is destroyed. Is this an irrational fear? Please talk

spk_0 me off the ledge. Well, I can, I can, I can back you up a little bit, but I can't talk you off it.

spk_0 There's some things that will take generations. I mean, the scientists, for instance, that we

spk_0 are losing by these crazy cuts to NIH and American University. Just going to take an awful long time

spk_0 to recover from that. The contempt for the rule of law that they have shown is something that you

spk_0 just don't turn around overnight, particularly with public opinion. And I think some of the economic

spk_0 damage is going to be real. So Don, um, don't give up. You know, your grandchildren can help correct

spk_0 some of the things that have occurred and their grandchildren are even more so, but the damage is

spk_0 not going to be short. Well, I have a grandchild of two years, almost seven months to the day.

spk_0 I'm not worried about his grandchildren. I'm worried about him. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not even

spk_0 worried about his children. I'm just worried about him because I think the damage is being done

spk_0 across the country is the repair work that's going to have to be done here. It's going to require

spk_0 some extraordinary people and extraordinary outfit. So I mean, I appreciate your question, but

spk_0 just worry about your own grandchild. If your grandchild gets to it, you might get through it.

spk_0 That's not a given they will. No, it's going to be very tough. Steve in Burbank, California, James,

spk_0 has does Trump really have a chance in hell of winning the Nobel Prize prize? I'd love to see him

spk_0 denied. Okay, but I know what I know about the Nobel Prize. I had a friend one at one at one time,

spk_0 but no, I mean, he's short-hands, no, did I go to the Nobel Prize and no way shape?

spk_0 I mean, even though he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he was, he stopped seven

spk_0 wars. We may be up to eight now. I don't know. We're going to double digits by, by October when

spk_0 they decide. I mean, he'll, he'll stop wars and we didn't even know existed. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. I mean, it's, anybody that's not panicked about the situation we in as a fool.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. This is a very tough question, which I'll take and then you can join.

spk_0 Tory embossed the Massachusetts. Tory, Tory is a liberal and has not figured out how to have a

spk_0 conversation with Trump supporters who get all their information from White Wing media outlets.

spk_0 How do you recommend those of us who would like to see more unity have a conversation with?

spk_0 I, I've tried several times and it is very, it is very, very difficult. It's not like it was,

spk_0 you know, 10, 20, 30 years ago when you might have a discussion and argument about tax cuts or

spk_0 Vietnam or healthcare. I mean, I did a show with Robert Novak, the Prince of Darkness for 17 years

spk_0 and we had, you know, sometimes it got a little bit shrill, but usually, you know, we had really

spk_0 serious debates and conversations about some of this. It's much harder today because the assumption

spk_0 is there's a conspiracy. The assumption is you're part of this conspiracy. The assumption is that

spk_0 basically all these people are evil and then you get things like, you know, I'm sorry, January

spk_0 6 was a FBI insurrection. When I do have the couple conversations I have, I try to start sort of

spk_0 with a generic, you know, how do you feel about, you know, should we have a government and what is

spk_0 its basic purpose? Or do you, you know, we know you believe in truth. How important is that? And how

spk_0 do we try to find some common ground on that? But I haven't gotten very far to worry. I'm sorry.

spk_0 I hope you come up with some better ideas. Maybe James will have some. There is no better. If you're

spk_0 right now, October 1st, 2025, you've watched Trump be present for four years. You watch him run,

spk_0 you watch him now be present for six and a half months or whatever it is seven months. And you still

spk_0 find it's hopeless. Look, I hope you're well. I hope you leave a long life. I don't have, there's

spk_0 nothing for me to say for you. If I, how in the world could I convince you if you've watched all the

spk_0 reality, all the criminality, all the institutional destruction, the just documented, I don't know, 35, 40,000

spk_0 lives, one after another. And if that's what you want, I can't do a thing for you. I'm just

spk_0 not going to waste time on you. Go find a young, impressionable person to find somebody.

spk_0 You try to get them or find somebody or anything to get them out to vote, but I'm going to tell you,

spk_0 it's a total waste of time. These fucking people, I'm not telling you they're stupid. They choose

spk_0 to be really stupid. And I think most of them just make the choice.

spk_0 I fear you're right. Jay and Dallas, Texas, by the way, we had dinner last night with this wonderful

spk_0 woman from Dallas, Texas, very involved in the arts and everything. Dallas is a happening place.

spk_0 Dallas is a good thing's are happening down there. Jay will ask, how are we going to make sure

spk_0 the elections take place? I'm, I'm, we're talking about 2026 and our fair, James.

spk_0 So I think this is going to happen. And I think people feel this.

spk_0 The, they're going to try something. Okay. That, that, they're going to try something.

spk_0 The first attempt. There has to be a massive pushback.

spk_0 All right. And if it's wild, it's just one little thing here. And I think people are kind of

spk_0 prime for this. And I think people that have some influence and public opinion of what people

spk_0 here are going to say, look, they're going to try this. And in any, anybody will tell you, in

spk_0 any general, any political strategist, any business person will say to you, the first skirmish is

spk_0 always the most important one. Yep. And no matter what it is, there has to be a vehement.

spk_0 I'm in when I, I mean, vehement reaction to it. And I think there's some chance that they will

spk_0 be. But we got a warn. We have a duty to warn. And watch out because if you let it get in,

spk_0 it's hard to undo it. You got to have a vehement in, not just robust, I mean, beyond robust reaction.

spk_0 Yeah. I totally agree. And I just hope, I hope these groups get even more organized. And I hope

spk_0 some of these people who have resources dip a little bit more in their pocket to help these

spk_0 groups get organized because they haven't done enough so far. No. Victoria and Davis, California,

spk_0 says, what are your thoughts on California's Prop 50? I am a strong proponent. This is Victoria,

spk_0 Prop 50 to counter Trump's egregious and possibly illegal and unconstitutional co-op scene of

spk_0 discriminatory. But understand why so many good people are hesitant. Victoria, the only reason

spk_0 that there hasn't is because the idea of blatant gerrymandering is a bad idea, but there is a worse

spk_0 idea. And that's called unilateral disarmament. If you want to sit back and you want to let them

spk_0 cheat as they are doing in Texas, as they're doing in Missouri, as they're planning in Ohio, as they're

spk_0 planning in Florida. If you want to sit back and say, fine, we'll let them cheat and maybe they'll

spk_0 then take the house illicitly. You know what? I would much rather go and say, I'm sorry, we have

spk_0 to play that game too. We have to do it because it's self-defense, but it's for the country. And

spk_0 the Mr. Munger and Mr. Schwarzenegger just don't seem to get that. So I am all for Prop 50.

spk_0 I mean, I grew up to say one thing about Davis, the University of California Davis is one great

spk_0 university. Yeah. There was a foremost place in the world. I'm talking about France, Italy,

spk_0 anyway, else. I guess you could call it a meology to study the academic study of wine.

spk_0 That means they are very ahead of everything. That's a great university. I've been there.

spk_0 They're a very nice place. It's a very nice place to do that.

spk_0 Okay, Victoria, we love your channel and we love Prop 50. So go round up some of your citizens to

spk_0 vote for it. James, our final question I like this is from George in Lake Wales, Florida. You

spk_0 know where Lake Wales, Florida is? No, but there's some million lakes in Florida. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 It's in central Florida, but that's just yeah. It's an educated or not educated guess, just a guess.

spk_0 Well, you know, our crack research staff will probably have that answer, you know,

spk_0 before the show's that or by next week. Anyway, George asks, why has no nickname stuck on Trump? He

spk_0 slanders everyone else, but nothing in on him. That's a good question. It is.

spk_0 And you know, by the way, just I think the best nickname can I've heard is that guy,

spk_0 Cal Raleigh at the 60 home runs for Seattle, the big dog. Oh, yeah, that's a great answer.

spk_0 I just looked at stats briefly. I hadn't looked at them in about a week or so. And suddenly I saw 60.

spk_0 And I this is just this is amazing. And since we're taught, you know, this is Wednesday and

spk_0 of it, but the red socks beating the Yankees in that opening, I thought of, you know, two of my

spk_0 very dearest friends of all time, Dick Flavin and Mark Shields are dancing in heaven and Roger

spk_0 Altman is dancing down here. Go socks. You know, this is just a question I get based probably.

spk_0 I've thought about this and it is. Has they ever been a, initially in an American

spk_0 leaf player simultaneously that have done what O'Connie and Judge have done?

spk_0 Now you said Ruth and Gary, but they played on the same team. You know, right?

spk_0 Wait, wait, wait, you had the in by way Jason Stark, who, we're going to get this guy to show

spk_0 sometimes. Yeah, Judge ought to be at not Cal Robert and he makes a very compelling case.

spk_0 Well, I'm thinking about that. Maybe Henry Aaron and Mickey Mantle. I mean, but it's a great question.

spk_0 And usual and in Ted Williams, I'd have to look at somebody here said, but at the 2005

spk_0 that O'Connie and Judge had just I'd like to look it up and just like OPS and you know,

spk_0 home, I've home runs of some like that. I don't know. I it. Yeah.

spk_0 Mantle yarn. But no, but let's get Jason Stark on and we'll ask him.

spk_0 James last night, I was going through some files and ran across some things. My friend Dick

spk_0 Flavin used to write about the Red Soxilla. A wonderful, wonderful Ted, where he was very close

spk_0 to Ted Williams. 1960, the way the Red Sox and I think it was the Indians were doing their

spk_0 spring training and Phoenix and they agreed. This is 60. They agreed to play an exhibition

spk_0 game in New Orleans, which was then segregated. And so there were two black players, I think, on

spk_0 each team. One of them was Mudcat Grant. And so they they they come in and they get off the plane

spk_0 and the luggage, you know, the blacks are going to say at a black hotel and the rest is say at a

spk_0 regular hotel, by mistake, all the luggage from the black players is sent to the white hotel.

spk_0 So they sent Mudcat over to get it. And Mudcat gets to the front door and the door man says,

spk_0 we ain't gonna let any in person in this hotel. I said, I'm just coming to get my back. You ain't

spk_0 getting in this hotel. Get the hell out of here. At that point, Ted Williams is walking around the

spk_0 block, which he would do every night on the road. And he says Mudcat, how are you? And Mudcat says,

spk_0 well, I'm fine Ted, except we are luggage. The black players were sent here by mistake.

spk_0 And this guy won't let me get it at which point Williams gets this guy and says, not only are you

spk_0 going to get their goddamn luggage? You're going to get a quick eye, expect you back here within

spk_0 60 seconds. You understand, Mr. that guy, my sister, he goes, you never seen anybody move so fast.

spk_0 And Mudcat, the players got back their luggage.

spk_0 You know, about that time in my event in 1960, Mr. B. State made the

spk_0 NCAA tournament and a Mississippi legislature passed a law that they couldn't leave the state.

spk_0 Yeah. I'm a dark state leftist. I think Bailey Howell was a star basketball player.

spk_0 I mean, it's been a long time ago. They actually had to leave the state. They had to go on cover

spk_0 a darkness to go play a basketball game. And you know, that happened in our lifetime.

spk_0 I mean, easy to remember that. You know, Ted Williams was very conservative, except on race.

spk_0 He was a real liberal on race. He welcomed Jackie Robinson. He was a lot, blobby, the red socks,

spk_0 they were very late in integrating. And there were only two things. He only had two soft spots

spk_0 for non-conservatives. And that were race and John Glenn, who he flew with in the war. And other

spk_0 than that, he was an unbridled right when you're, but God, he was one hell of a hitter.

spk_0 You know what? If you're the greatest kid, I have a, and you have a tolerant attitude to the people

spk_0 of the football team politics. Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I think he may have been,

spk_0 as liberal as he was in race, that he didn't tell a lot of people about this, but he was part of

spk_0 Hispanic. And, uh, uh, you know, I've been brand new sport. Get a 800 page. Yeah. Something.

spk_0 I really like Ben Bradley Jr., but man, it's hard to, and I, I'm a big Ted Williams fan,

spk_0 but it's hard to get through 800 pages. There's a lot of people, you know, our friend Ron

spk_0 Turner, some of these people when they saw it right now just can't stop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 And I'd rather have a read a book about a guy that knew too much and not enough. That's true.

spk_0 And you always can skim. Uh, so listen, these letters were great. If we didn't get to yours

spk_0 this week, get, I promise we'll try to get to it next week, but Steve, uh, from declining USA,

spk_0 that won't cut anymore. You got to tell us where you're from. So thank you a lot. We love those

spk_0 letters. I'm, uh, and I'll come back. I'm gonna, I don't know if you remember this, but

spk_0 2030 years ago, the big thing with the saying to was so bad, people who have paper bag over their

spk_0 heads. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The paper bag thing. I think when I should do a paper bag for

spk_0 Americans traveling abroad because I can't tell you another people I come over to me in Europe

spk_0 and say, Oh, James God's so embarrassed to be. I mean, people really feel, people really feel

spk_0 embarrassed. I mean, it's, it's a very common reaction. You get abroad. No, we, we saw the same

spk_0 thing London. We saw it in Paris. It was just, uh, you know, I mean, it really was, uh, you can't,

spk_0 you can't escape it. And people, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's really frightening. It's,

spk_0 and it's just getting worse. Yeah. It's kind of good. Oh, um, I'll tell you going back to baseball,

spk_0 I was so happy. The meds did not make the playoffs, even though I love one so though. But that

spk_0 owner is, you know, a bad guy. They spent a fortune and they got cut out. I mean, it's just that,

spk_0 you know, it has to make you feel good. Terry Friend Cona. So, two things, Terry Friend Cona,

spk_0 his got to be as soon as he's eligible in the hall of fame. I mean, he won the first round.

spk_0 So he was the Red Sox. Yeah. Yeah. Managed Cleveland way, way, much the way above it,

spk_0 way, by the way, to have one of those interesting stories from baseball, what they did this year.

spk_0 And then he's got Cincinnati who's horrifically cheap and bad in the goddamn playoffs. I mean,

spk_0 yeah. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. He is great. I'll tell you else. This is a great manager.

spk_0 Is the Red, this is from Roger Altman, but he's so right. That Red Sox manager is, uh, is a genius.

spk_0 He really was. Yeah. It's cool. And now, yeah, he got caught in the Houston. Uh, you want to see

spk_0 something funny. Watch the Warren Morris home run. And Alice Cora was the shark stock,

spk_0 University of Miami. Yeah. Just bleeping on the ground, beating his hand. A guy to confess,

spk_0 I'll say that. And he does. He's just more, I mean, the socks aren't loaded this year. I mean,

spk_0 they got a pretty good pitching staff. They got a great closer. But, uh, you know, they really

spk_0 unloaded and, uh, you know, obvets cans and Houston. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

spk_0 Hey, thanks for listening to politics world room of James Carbill and I'm Al Hunt.

spk_0 As always, send your questions to for us by email to politics worldroom at gmail.com

spk_0 or tweet them for next week's show at pleticon. Following this episode, we'd really appreciate it if

spk_0 you check out the link to our sponsor, Quince and our episode show notes. We thank you for supporting

spk_0 them because when you do, you help make this podcast happen. To keep up with us, subscribe to

spk_0 politics world room on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and check out our

spk_0 substack at politics world room dot com. James and I are constantly adding new content. So go and

spk_0 take a look. Now, you also can find other shows you might enjoy on the pleticon YouTube channel or

spk_0 when you search pleticon on your favorite podcast sites. And remember, please rate the show with

spk_0 a five star review. We'll be back next week with another program as we continue our world room plan.

spk_0 And

330: Trump & Hegseth Blew It with Leon Panetta

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