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286: Prince Darling
In this episode of Classical Stuff, the hosts explore the fairy tale 'Prince Darling' from Andrew Lang's Blue Fairy Book. They discuss the themes of virtue, the consequences of one'...
286: Prince Darling
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Interactive Transcript
Speaker A
Hi, welcome to Classical Stuff.
Speaker B
You should know.
Speaker A
A podcast about classical education, old books, philosophy, stories, narratives, poetry, some art, all sorts of fun things. My name is Graham Donaldson and I am joined by. With. I cannot remember that. A.J. hanneberg.
Speaker C
Oh, that's me.
Speaker A
And Thomas Fletcher Magby.
Speaker B
Hello. I always got uncomfortable when you include the middle name in there.
Speaker A
I was delighted when Thomas came in and when he was talking about what he was going to talk about today, it was clearly an episode about me.
Speaker B
There it is. And it's so flattering.
Speaker A
So this is like. What's that called when you do, like something in honor of the. Of the long career of somebody?
Speaker B
Fest shrift.
Speaker A
Fest shrift. So when maybe came and said he.
Speaker B
Was going to jump Rose.
Speaker A
A fest. Shift about me.
Speaker B
About.
Speaker A
You know what? I was honored. I was touched. So maybe take it away.
Speaker C
Makes sense why you want to do the intro.
Speaker B
That makes a lot more sense now.
Speaker A
Well, it's, you know, it's got to be properly framed.
Speaker B
I'm glad to hear it. So, yeah, our story. We're going to continue on in the Blue Fairy Book, compiled by Andrew Lang. Prince Darling is the name of our story this time, which I assume, gentlemen. Good, thank you. I think last time you were the beauty of Beauty and the Beast, and now you're the Prince of Prince Darling. So this Graham really is the main character. This is good, I think.
Speaker A
Beautiful boy.
Speaker B
Okay, no, keep going.
Speaker A
Beautiful, beautiful beauty.
Speaker B
This is great. No, keep going. I had it pointed out last time. I don't think I said when these stories were compiled. So Lang puts together this Blue Fairy Book, the one we're going through in 1889. So it counts as a classic now, right? It's old enough, sure. Okay, I'll take it. These stories come from a myriad different sources. He will in his preface. This comes from one that's the. I'm going to butcher French this entire episode. The Cabinet de Fe. Do you want to guess what that means? Spell. Spell. F, E with a little accent. Mark. Es fe. Okay, cool. Cabinet de Fe. Do you want to guess what that means?
Speaker A
The Closet of Assuming Fairies.
Speaker B
Fairies, yeah. Fairy Cabinet. Fairy Library. You'll see different translations of that. But the stories from the Cabinet du Fe and from Madame d', Alniot, you like that. Are translated or Rather adapted by Ms. Minnie Wright, who also translated a few of the other stories. So there's this collection of stories. Sorry, I'm having, like. We're just pivoting so hard. We went through, like, the degradation of society with this book. Eight of Plato's Republic. We did an hour long in between episode. It rules. You should go listen to it. Patreon.com classical stuff. And now I'm gonna talk about a fairy tale. So this is cool.
Speaker C
It's a hard left. This is the world we live.
Speaker A
This is the classical world. We got it. We have hard pivots. We go from the sublime to the phoretical. No, what's fairy? What's the adjective for fairies?
Speaker B
Phoretical sounds too close to Pharisee, and I don't love that. So I am leading the episode, though, so maybe it's appropriate. So there's this collection of French stories that's called the Cabinet Da Fe. It's put together. I'm not gonna go into it. We don't have a lot. So there's a collection of stories. Andrew Lang picks up some of them, includes them in his Blue Fairy book. This is one of the stories that comes from that. The author of the story is someone who did an adaptation of Beauty and the Beast. So that is, if I were better prepared, I would have all this here. I don't have it, but it's one of the names that we covered last. It's Jean Marie Le Prince de Beaumont is where this story of Prince Darling comes from. Her story is brought into eventually the fairy Cabinet and then eventually brought into Andrew Lang.
Speaker A
Any relation to Prince Charming? Like, are they cousins?
Speaker B
You tell me. You are Prince Darling. So you tell me. So tell me the opening lines of this story. What are the first four words?
Speaker A
Once upon a time.
Speaker B
Once upon a time, there lived a king who was so just and kind that his subjects called him the good king. It happened one day. So he goes out hunting. He sees this little rabbit, and he doesn't want to hurt the rabbit because he's a good king. So he kind of saves the rabbit, brings it with him, and eventually finds out this is not just any rabbit. This is actually a fairy. So the rabbit transforms into.
Speaker C
It is the rabbit. I can't help but think of the Monty Python.
Speaker B
Anyway, a lot of the story, Teddy.
Speaker C
Rabbit was a fairy rabbit. That had to be one of them.
Speaker B
No, this is good. It's. There are a lot of turns throughout the story as well, where it's kind of like. And then this happened. And it really is with as much transition as I'm giving it. So goes hunting, finds a rabbit, doesn't kill it, takes it home. This rabbit turns out to be the fairy Truth. Fairy Truth says, I was passing through the woods. What are the odds? Pretty low. As A matter of fact, when you were out hunting and I wished to find out if you were really good, as everybody said you were. So I took the shape of a little rabbit. And then, sure enough, you proved yourself to be good. The king is given a wish. The King can ask for anything. Gentlemen, you're given a single wish. You can ask for anything. What do you go for?
Speaker A
To be able to correctly and accurately give the love of virtue to my child.
Speaker B
That's exactly what his answer was. Wow. Sorry. I was going to ask AJ Your answer too, but Graham just nailed it. So do you even want to try.
Speaker C
It?
Speaker B
It's not even worth it.
Speaker C
Just touched it.
Speaker B
Just kind of give up and just.
Speaker C
I'm out.
Speaker A
I was making a joke from our last episode. That was City's problem was they couldn't raise virtuous children.
Speaker B
They clearly just need more fairies. And then they could be. They could pass this on to their kids.
Speaker A
These rabbits.
Speaker B
Maybe this story is actually connected to yours. Let's see what you think by the end of the story. Okay.
Speaker A
Prince Darling.
Speaker B
Prince Darling, who he is.
Speaker A
He maybe cares about his honor more than he cares about his virtue.
Speaker B
But let's see why he cares about it. Because it's kind of funny. So, madam said the good king, since you are a fairy, you no doubt know all my wishes. I have but one son whom I love very dearly. That is why he is called Prince Darling. If you are really good enough to wish to do me a favor, I beg that you will become his friend. So that's the request. And the fairy agrees to this?
Speaker C
Oh, man. I don't want no fairies near my kids.
Speaker B
Well, because wouldn't you be worried about this?
Speaker C
Oh, I've read enough stories.
Speaker B
You know how this goes.
Speaker C
Fae are whimsical. They are not good parents. So I'd be like, make my kids stay far away from my kids.
Speaker B
Well, so the fairy says, you know, hey, you want me to be friends with them? I can give him something too. I can make him the richest. I can make him the most powerful. I can make him handsomest. Like, what do you want me to do? And the king says, I don't want any of those things. I want you to make him the best of princes. What good would it do him to be rich or handsome or to possess all the kingdoms of the world if he were wicked, you know? Well, he would still be unhappy. Only a good man can really be contented.
Speaker C
Oh, okay, that's good.
Speaker B
The fairy completely agrees. And I'm just gonna. This is the entire Sentence where all of this plot development happens. Just get, get, get ready. The good king was quite satisfied with this promise semicolon. And very soon afterwards, he died.
Speaker A
What more do you need? The apotheosis of dadhood.
Speaker B
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker C
I mean, he's not only wished good for his kid, but he met a fairy.
Speaker B
He met a fairy, and his wish was for his kid to get the benefit of it. Not, you know, the king could have asked to live forever, and instead, he.
Speaker A
Is the good king.
Speaker B
He is a good king. Awesome. So Prince Darling is understandably bummed he loved his dad. And he then meets the fairy. Fairy says, I promised your father that I would be your friend and to keep my word, I've come to bring you a present. So I'm going to tell you about this present. It's a little gold ring. Yeah. You're nervous about what's going to happen.
Speaker C
No fairy or bad news.
Speaker B
But I want to be clear. This is the fairy truth. Does that make you feel any better?
Speaker C
No. They'll say anything.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker C
I don't trust a fairy.
Speaker B
Take care of this ring. She said it is more precious than diamonds. Every time you do a bad deed, it will prick your finger. But if in spite of its pricking, you go on your own evil way, you will lose my friendship and I shall become your enemy. How you feeling about this ring?
Speaker C
I have a bad, bad feeling about this.
Speaker B
That's funny. I think this is a great ring. Like, if you. If you had the chance to get this ring as well, would you take this ring?
Speaker C
I don't take anything from fairies.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker A
I wouldn't have eaten that pizza like, a little while ago.
Speaker B
It would have just, like, destroyed your finger. Correct.
Speaker A
My finger. Be like you. Really? You want all that, like, processed like enriched wheat garbage in you?
Speaker B
I don't think it's quite like a eat well ring, but maybe it isn't it.
Speaker A
You didn't say it was an evil thing.
Speaker B
The ring is or no.
Speaker A
If you do a wicked thing, every.
Speaker B
Time you do a bad thing, prick your finger.
Speaker A
Isn't like eating. Eating? Isn't like eating bad food a bad deed?
Speaker B
You tell me.
Speaker A
I don't know.
Speaker B
How does that hot dog feel right now? Yeah. Where does this.
Speaker C
This is why I don't take things from fairies.
Speaker B
What is a bad feel?
Speaker C
The fine print is sometimes too small.
Speaker B
How are you not an attorney? Like, you're wanting to go, like, through the contract to see, like, what have I signed up for?
Speaker C
Do I reason with it?
Speaker A
He's. He's in fairy law.
Speaker B
Who wouldn't? He is. In fairy law, the only.
Speaker C
You put down your finger, it's going to clamp down. You're never getting it off.
Speaker B
I know.
Speaker C
Fairies.
Speaker B
Didn't we have. There was fairy court in Beauty and the Beast. Fairy court in one of the older versions of it. So they actually got the evil fairy sent to jail or whatever. Not in this story.
Speaker C
So after the damage had been done.
Speaker B
That poor man, right, so Prince Darling gets the ring. He puts on the ring. So he. For a long time, it's just a ring, right? He's a good kid, does his best, like, things are fine. Until one day he goes out hunting and he does really poorly at hunting. He's not, you know, I don't know, getting. Catching the animals that he wants to. And so he's. He's mad. He comes home and his dog just like running up to him and wants to be nice, wants to be kind. And the prince kicks the dog.
Speaker C
What?
Speaker B
That's messed up.
Speaker C
Only in line.
Speaker B
Yeah, that's exactly right. Instantly. Hope that ring sliced it off instantly. His ring pricked him sharply as if it had been a pin.
Speaker A
I've lost all charity towards Prince Darling.
Speaker B
As you should. I mean, it's messed up. It's not a good thing that he did. He gets pricked and he kind of tries to blame the fairy because it's kind of what AJ's saying. He thinks the fairy's playing a trick on him and the fairies, like, I'm not making fun of you. You have committed. You've committed three faults. First of all, you were out of temper because you could not have what you wanted. And you thought all men and animals were only made to do your pleasure. Then you were really angry, which is very naughty indeed. And last, lastly, you were cruel to a poor little animal who did not in the least deserve to be ill treated. And she goes on, you know, you're in a position of authority, but, like, you need to be good to those who are. Like, just because he's your dog doesn't mean you can mistreat him like that. And how does the prince respond? What do you think he does after that?
Speaker A
He's Prince Darling.
Speaker B
He's probably like, he's probably contrite, right?
Speaker A
I feel bad. He's contrite.
Speaker B
That's exactly.
Speaker A
You're always contrite on the first sin.
Speaker B
It's like you've read the story before. You literally are pretty.
Speaker A
We've lived this story. This folks, these. These stories are us.
Speaker B
Maybe I feel that way. That's where I want to get to. The prince saw how naughty he had been and promised to try to do better in the future. But he did not keep his word. The fact was that he had been brought up by a foolish nurse. So, remember, his dad dies, so he kind of has someone else who had spoiled him when he was little. If he wanted anything, he only had to cry and fret and stamp his feet, and she would give him whatever he asked for. Didn't you say that the. In the last episode, aristocrats can't pass on the values to the next because of their glaucon?
Speaker A
Said it was because of their moms.
Speaker B
Well, this is tough. This is because of the nurses. So is he going to go through.
Speaker A
Like, elaborate lengths, try to, like, lessen the pain that the ring gives him over time, or is he just going to take it off?
Speaker B
Yeah, he just takes it off. Eventually, his ring pricked him very often. Sometimes he left off what he was doing at once, but at other times, he would not attend to it. Strangely enough, it gave him only a slight prick for a trifling fault. But when he was really naughty, it made his finger actually bleed. At last, he got tired of being constantly reminded and wanted to be able to do as he liked. So he threw his ring aside and thought himself to. And thought himself the happiest of men to have got rid of its teasing pricks.
Speaker C
Now he's in it with the fairy.
Speaker B
Well, he's not. Oh, that's interesting. Why do you say that?
Speaker C
Because he's throwing vengeful folk.
Speaker B
He's throwing the ring away. But the fairy.
Speaker C
Oh, she's not done with him.
Speaker B
That's exactly right. Look, y' all are again, you. You've read the story, You've read.
Speaker C
Never trust the fairy tale.
Speaker B
Read fairy tales before. So he. He throws his ring away, and he thinks he's living the best life now. So he's walking around and he sees a beautiful girl. Her name is Celia. And Celia, I believe, is a shepherdess.
Speaker A
You're breaking my heart.
Speaker C
I was just gonna say he sees.
Speaker B
Is it Celia or Cecilia?
Speaker C
It's Cecilia.
Speaker B
Cecilia. Thank you, Cecilia.
Speaker A
I'm down on my knees.
Speaker B
No, keep going. This is great. I mean, we have to, like, wrap this episode up, but no. Yeah, there it is. Cool. Oh, okay. So.
Speaker A
Come on, Thomas. Smart enough.
Speaker C
You can easily.
Speaker B
I started singing along. I started singing along as you all. Stop.
Speaker C
He sees Celia, right? So then you can. He sees Celia.
Speaker B
Yeah. No, you're right. Make it the song. And in fact, she does break his Heart, buddy.
Speaker A
It's always the beautiful farmers.
Speaker C
Did he give her the ring?
Speaker B
That would be nice. That would be really good. We'll be together forever, babe. So Prince Darling fancied that Celia would think herself only too happy if he offered to make her a great queen. But she said fearlessly, sire, I am only a shepherdess and a poor girl, but nevertheless, I will not marry you.
Speaker A
Dang.
Speaker C
Yikes.
Speaker A
That's like, ultimate reject.
Speaker B
You know, Celia's telling him, you know, I cannot help thinking you very handsome, but what good would riches be to me and all the grand dresses and splendid carriages that you would give me if the bad deeds which I should see you do every day made me hate and despise you?
Speaker A
Dang. So Prince Darling is.
Speaker B
He's getting a bit of a prince. Dirtbag is probably right. The people of his kingdom are starting to see the fault lines. They're starting to see what's wrong in his character. And they remember his father. They remember how good he had been.
Speaker A
And they're disappointed to pull him back from the brink. So, Darling, can you go back to the aristocratic? Is he doomed to live a life.
Speaker B
Of democratic pleasure only through magic, you know, and we're still unfortunately not done with his wicked deeds. So he also has a foster brother, Celia. Yeah, I know. Cecilia shoots him down, which is a bummer. And he has a foster brother. He also has some advisors who do not have his best interest in mind. They basically all want. They want to take over the kingdom. They want to take it from Prince Darling. And so they are encouraging him to kind of like, use and abuse his power. So he goes to his foster brother, he goes to his advisors, he tells them. They.
Speaker A
He.
Speaker B
Prince Darling tells them about his Celia situation, and they are like, you are king. You can have whatever you want to. You can throw her in prison, and if she won't marry you, cut her head off. Like, just. Yeah, like, whatever you want.
Speaker C
Nothing wins a girl like the threat of death.
Speaker B
That's exactly right. But Prince Darling is not totally given to this. Prince Darling says, would it not be a shame if I had an innocent girl put to death? For Celia really has done nothing to deserve punishment. And then they're like, oh, yeah, if you let people walk all over you, then, like, you have this coming. Like, that's on you for not standing up for yourself.
Speaker A
Dang.
Speaker C
King Doormat.
Speaker B
King doormat. How many Ds can we. This is good, Prince. I like this. So the Prince Darling is kind of persuaded by this because he's like, yeah, I Don't want to lose my power. I do want to be in control. So kind of the foster brother is getting him convinced that he should just kind of lord his authority over Celia separately. Darling doesn't really want to do that. And so what they do, what these advisors do, what his foster brother does, is they convince. They're like, okay, if he won't go against Celia the way that we want him to, can we get another one of our political enemies? Like, can we get someone else killed? Basically by Prince Darling being worked up and mad. They give him a. I think they give him a little bit of wine. They kind of start. They try to get his rational faculties down. And so they talk him into imprisoning his old tutor, who is a man named Suleiman. And they say, hey, you should get Suleiman in here. And he's been talking trash about you, like, he's been talking behind your back. He thinks he should be king instead of you. It's all made up. They bribe some witnesses to say that they also saw Suleiman say these things. It's all fake. None of it's real. And Prince Darling also has this kind of harbored resentment against Suleiman because Suleiman does not suck up to him. Suleiman tells him, you're being a little punk. Like, you need to be like your dad. And for a time, Prince Darling liked that, but now he resents it. He wants to be in control.
Speaker A
Our episodes fit together well.
Speaker B
They fit together very well. I did not expect this. So Prince Darling says, you're right. The Celia thing, not really crazy about that. But the Suleiman guy, we gotta kill him. Like, he is the enemy. So Seea, Socrates. Yeah. So he calls in, or he tells his advisors to go get, you know, get an army together. Go get Suleiman, bring him here in chains. I'm gonna kill this guy. An army.
Speaker C
Isn't the guy a tutor?
Speaker B
It's like some soldiers, like, go get some people with.
Speaker C
Okay, I was gonna say, like, what is he really good shot?
Speaker B
He is really not. And this is when. So then. So Prince Darling gives this command, goes back to his room, and there is a thunderbolt in his room. Right? So it's like a bright flash and the fairy truth.
Speaker A
I was going to say a really pissed off rabbit.
Speaker B
That's exactly right. And she says, go for it.
Speaker C
No, I was just gonna say, no wonder that rabbit's so mad in the Holy Grail.
Speaker B
Killing everybody, lightning and stuff.
Speaker C
One Prince show you guys.
Speaker B
And that's right. So she Shows up suddenly before him, and she says, I promised your father to give you good advice and to punish you if you refuse to follow it. You have despised my counsel and have gone your own evil way until you are only outwardly a man. Really, you are a monster. The horror of everyone who knows you. It is time that I should fulfill my promise and begin your punishment.
Speaker A
Spank that kid.
Speaker B
I condemn you to resemble the animals whose ways you have imitated. You have made yourself like the lion by your anger, like the wolf, by your greediness, like a snake, you have ungratefully turned upon one who is second father to you. Your churlishness has made you like a bull. Therefore, in your new form, take the appearance of all these animals. Sounds awesome.
Speaker A
I want to say this is kind of dope.
Speaker B
Wait, you want to turn into this guy?
Speaker A
Is he going to be like a snake, lion, wolf, bull?
Speaker B
Yeah. Let me tell you.
Speaker C
So you could have pick worst animals.
Speaker A
Yeah. So like you for being lazy. You're a slug for being like, you know, gross, you're an amoeba. But no, you're, like, freaking.
Speaker B
Let me run through it. So here's what he looks like. He had a lion's head.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
A bull's horns.
Speaker C
Sick.
Speaker B
A wolf's feet. And a snake's body. Is this cool?
Speaker A
Kind of still kind of the snake's.
Speaker C
Body a little bit less so. But that.
Speaker B
The snake body's not great.
Speaker A
Although it's like if you don't have the. The. Like this. The. The neck strength. You're like heads blank.
Speaker B
Falling over.
Speaker C
No, it depends on how thick the snake body is. I think that's the real cl. If it's a little thin, skinny one and he just sort of like flops around on the ground, that's a bummer.
Speaker B
I mean, is it.
Speaker A
I mean, Celia's not marrying you for sure.
Speaker B
Celia's not marrying you for sure. And as you might imagine, if anyone sees you, they're going to kill you.
Speaker A
Yeah, fair point.
Speaker B
Which is the other punishment?
Speaker A
Wretched monster.
Speaker C
Oh, no, not in a capitalist society. They would capture you and then show.
Speaker B
You to the public.
Speaker A
King Kong for a while.
Speaker B
This guy over here again, you've read the story.
Speaker A
So really, he gets captured and paraded around.
Speaker B
Kind of cool.
Speaker C
I'm smart.
Speaker B
He. Congrats. Hey, you did it. So he gets transformed and he gets, like, teleported away out of the castle. So he gets. He's moved next to a lake. That's when he looks down, he sees himself and he's despairing of how he looks. I look amazing. Yeah. So he's like, I now need to. I need to go somewhere. Like, if I stay here, I'm going to get killed. So he starts walking and immediately falls into a hunter's trap. So he gets caught immediately. And they don't kill him. They do. It's kind of a parading thing. They. They capture him. They.
Speaker A
Pundus comes up to Travis like, what the good Lord.
Speaker B
No one comments on it. Like, that's the weird part. Got him. Yeah.
Speaker C
This is not indigenous.
Speaker B
Yeah. No one's like, what is this thing? They're just like another monster, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker C
How common were monsters back in the day? Because people seem pretty non affected by it.
Speaker B
Pretty okay with this. So, yeah. So he gets captured. What eventually happens is he's sold off to like a collector of rare animals. So maybe that's the reason they're not asking a lot of questions, because they're like, this is a major payday. This rules. So he gets captured. They're taking him along. But he's hearing, as they're marching him around, he hears all this celebration. There's all these parties going on. And he's like, it's not a holiday. It's not a birthday. What's going on?
Speaker C
Because he's gone.
Speaker B
It's because he's dead. All the people in the land are celebrating his death.
Speaker A
His Darling is gone.
Speaker B
Yes. So the story is that this thunderbolt, like a judgment from God has killed him. And they're all celebrating. It's like they're so thankful that he's dead. And what immediately happened is he dies. His main advisors try and take over the kingdom. They all get killed. And what has happened is that Suleiman. Suleiman becomes king.
Speaker C
Oh, sweet.
Speaker B
And so. And everyone's like, suleiman rules. Like, he is like, much more like Prince Darling's father than Prince Darling was like, we are in for a time of prosperity. Like, let's go. This rules. And Prince Darling hears this and he is like, really cut to the core of. He didn't realize that his people hated him for what he was. He was doing. He thought he was just getting whatever was his. And he hadn't thought about the impact on his kingdom, on how they suffered because of his moral failings. Right. So he's realizing this. He's like, that was wrong of me. I shouldn't have done that. And then he's so. But he's still a beast and can't really do anything about it. He's sold off. He gets taken to this. Come on.
Speaker C
He's a lion, bull snake.
Speaker B
So things are going okay. He.
Speaker C
As a lion, bull, snake, something, man, you got options.
Speaker B
Like wolf. He gets sold off to this collector of rare animals. He's, you know, he's. He's mistreated. He gets. He gets beaten as a part of being there. And he's tied up to something in the house. Like he can't get out and attack the guy who's. Who's. Who's hurting him. So, like it. It's not a great life that he has right now, but while he's there, Eustace the dragon. That's right. That's right. Not far off from where we'll go in just a little bit. So the Prince Darling as a beast is in this traitor's house. And there are other animals in there too, including a tiger. And this tiger, one night, escapes from its chains and is about to go and kill the. The traitor. So tiger in the house gonna kill the traitor who has been beating, hurting Prince Darling as a beast. And something has really changed in Prince Darling's heart where he's like, I have done wrong, and I need to make right for the evils I've brought into the world. And so he resolves in that moment, he says, I would return good for evil, he said to himself, and save the unhappy man's life if he were able to. Right. He's still chained to whatever it is in the house. And he had hardly wished this when his iron cage flew open. That's a cage instead. Sorry. And he rushed to the side of the keeper, who was awake and defending himself against the tiger. When he saw the monster had got out and gave him. He, the hunter, gave himself up for lost. But his fear was soon changed into joy. For the kind monster threw himself upon the tiger and very soon killed it. And then came and crouched at the feet of the man it had saved. Overcome with gratitude, the keeper stooped to caress the strange creature which had done him such a great service. But suddenly a voice said in Prince Darling's ear, a good action.
Speaker A
Kill that man.
Speaker B
He's next. A good action should never go unrewarded. And at the same, she killed the trainer. She killed the. I think she kind of let the tiger out. Honestly, like, it was kind of like.
Speaker C
She definitely let him out and then.
Speaker B
Let the monster out. But the Prince Darling does not kill the keeper. Yeah. So what happens is.
Speaker C
Does truth kill the keeper?
Speaker B
So the fairy is saying to Prince Darling, a good deed should not go unrewarded. You're Going to get a reward for this good thing you did of saving the keeper. And the reward is the monster disappeared and the keeper saw at his feet only a pretty little dog. So Prince Darling, he's now a cute little dog. Now a cute little dog.
Speaker C
He's leveling up.
Speaker B
Used to be a monster. You think that's a level up? Like, is that the monster was pretty good?
Speaker C
Depends on how this guy treats you. It could be like.
Speaker A
If he gets.
Speaker C
The dog, but if he gets kicked. Yeah, it's bad news.
Speaker B
He does not. So Prince Darling is delighted by this change. So he's feeling pretty good about himself. The man is like, what just happened? He has seen this transformation happen in front of him. I gotta quit drinking. That's right. And because of this, he takes the dog to the king, to Suleiman, and tells this whole story of what's going on. So the king, they want to keep this dog in the castle. And so the dog gets to run around. And so it's this kind of. But they give him to someone in the castle. I'm not going to go into all this, but basically it's kind of nice because he gets a better life. He's not getting kicked all the time. But the royal family doesn't want the dog to get too fat, so he doesn't get to eat as much as he wants to. So he's like. It's still kind of purgatory, right? He's still getting starved and, like. So he's not super happy.
Speaker A
He's living a dog life.
Speaker B
He's living a dog life.
Speaker A
Great. But it's not awesome.
Speaker B
But it's not the best. So he's out in the palace. He gets this, like, one loaf of bread every day for breakfast. He's walking around with it. Is that right? Is bread bad? Does it expand in their stomach or something? I'll make sure to tell them. Put him on a paleo diet. So. But, you know, he knows the castle, so he's like, I want to go look around and see what's there. He takes his loaf of bread, walks around. He wants to go see this brook that he was a big fan of. So he wants to see this body of water. He has to walk a little ways to get there. But once he gets there, he was surprised to find that the brook was gone. And where it had been stood a great house that seemed to be built of gold and precious stones. Numbers of people, splendidly dressed, were going into it. And sounds of music and dancing and feasting could be heard from the windows? No, the Kingdom's cult. It was cold. Was it the Kingdom's cult? It kind of feels like that, but it's also the. Like, it's the club, right? Like, it's the witch retreat. Yeah. Like all these, like, fancy people are going into this, like, gold and, like, ruby and emerald studded building. And it's the Illuminati, I guess.
Speaker A
So good times in Suleimani's Kingdom.
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker B
But what seemed very strange was that those people who came out of the house were pale and thin and their clothes were torn and hanging in rags about them. Some fell down dead as they came out, before they had time to get away.
Speaker A
Those are the best raves.
Speaker B
Others crawled farther. Others lay on the ground fainting with hunger and begged a morsel of bread from those who were going into the house. But they would not so much as look at the poor creatures. So Prince Darling, as a dog, has his loaf in his mouth, sees this poor person who's starving, and he gives his bread away. He, the dog, Prince Darling realizes he's hungry, but he's not starving. And these people are, like, dying, so he might as well give away what he has to one of these people. So gives it away. But this other weird thing is happening that out of this gold and, like precious stone encrusted out of this club, they're, like, throwing food out. So, like, they're all starving, but food is available anywhere. And so the Prince is thinking, I'm a dog. I'll just go eat some of that food on the ground. Kingdom. Yes, it is. But as soon as Prince Darling gets close to it, he's warned by this person who he gave bread to, don't eat it. All of this food is poisoned. And the reason that all of these people are dying is because they think that they are feeding. They think that they're going to enjoy this food, have a good time, but they're killing themselves as they do this.
Speaker A
Like the pizza I had earlier.
Speaker B
The pizza that you had earlier will also lead to your death and destruction. In the Andrew Lang version, this building is not named. But in the original version, I believe it's called the House of Pleasure. And the original story, as I understand it, is more of a morality tale than the Lang version.
Speaker A
This seems pretty morality tale, this Lang version.
Speaker B
Well, what's weird is that this thing happens with, again, the House of Pleasure, but it's like an aside, and then the story keeps going as opposed to like. It does not make the clear point. That's like, hey, your insatiable receipt of pleasure is going to kill you.
Speaker A
The dog just goes for a walk in the woods and like bumps into a heavy handed metaphor and then continues on.
Speaker B
I mean honestly is exactly what happened. So the he as a dog, he also. He catches a glimpse of Celia who.
Speaker A
I believe is in like married and happy or she now's a pleasure.
Speaker B
I believe she's in the house. Oh, Celia. She has been.
Speaker C
What road have you gone down?
Speaker B
Let me make sure. I think she has been kidnapped at this point to rescue you. Yeah.
Speaker A
Should have married the prince.
Speaker B
Should have married the prince. Yeah. He determined not to quit the place till he knew what had become of Celia and blamed himself for what had befallen her. So she's kidnapped. She's in the house of pleasure. But I don't like not to partake. It looks like. I think she might be the one throwing the food out the window. Honestly. So he has a glimpse of Celia, sees these dying people outside this house of pleasure and is warned by the girl that he gave his loaf of bread to. Hey, don't eat any of this food because you're gonna die if that happens. So we have the next time that the fairy speaks to him. So Prince Darling has done another good deed. He has given away his food. When it wasn't like he didn't have to do that. He chose to save someone else instead of comfort for himself. And also the girl has helped him. So like they're the good deeds of Prince Darling are the main point of the story. But there is this like help back and forth between them. So Prince Darling hears the voice again. You see, a good action always brings its reward. And the prince found himself changed into. What's the next one? What do you think? The next. Give me another animal.
Speaker A
You'd want to be something better than a dog. But not Prince. He's not going to be like the Prince Darling.
Speaker B
Yet.
Speaker C
Eagle.
Speaker B
He turns into a bird. Found himself changed into a beautiful white dove. Do I need to give cookie cakes? Like what's the. No, I think you all are tied. I'm not really keeping track. So he gets turned into a dove. He remembered that white was the favorite color of the fairy truth and began to hope that he might at last win back her favor. So he's like, it's that leveling up idea.
Speaker A
We're getting there.
Speaker B
But just now his first care was for Celia. And rising into the air, he flew round and round the house until he saw an open window. But he searched through every room in vain. No trace of Celia was to be seen. And the prince, in despair, determined to search through the world till he found her. He flew on for several days till he came to a great desert where he saw a caravan. And to his delight, there sat Celia. So there's your plot device of, you know, he looked. He just looked really hard and found her. And found her.
Speaker A
Sometimes you find what you're looking for.
Speaker B
Which is what happens here. So I guess it is a fairy tale, right? So he's very happy to have found her. He flies into the cave where they're hanging out, and Celia kind of offhandedly makes a statement. I accept the gift that you make. So the again bird flies in, lands on her shoulder. Celia turns and just kind of makes a offhand statement. She's surprised and delighted. She says, I accept the gift that you make me of yourself, and I will love you always. Now, Celia is with this kind of. What looks like this older person who's sitting in a robe, like. Looks like the person who has kidnapped Celia. Right? So it's Celia's captor plus Celia, now a bird on her shoulder. The captor says, take care what you are saying, Celia. Are you prepared to keep that promise? Indeed, I hope so, my sweet shepherdess, cried the prince, who was at that moment restored to his natural shape. You promised to love me always. Tell me that you really mean. Is he still on her shoulder? I guess he's like hopped off. You promised to love me always. Tell me that you really mean what you said. Or I shall have to ask the fairy to give me back the form of the dove which pleased you so much. Celia says you need not be afraid. I'm sorry. The dove, the person who looks like the captor is actually the fairy. You need not be afraid that she will change her mind, said the fairy, throwing off the hermit's robes in which she had been disguised and appearing before them. Celia had loved you ever since she first saw you, only she would not tell you while you were so obstinate and naughty. Now you have repented and mean to be good, so you deserve to be happy, and so she may love you as much as she likes. Celia and Prince Darling threw themselves at the fairy's feet, and the prince was never tired of thanking her for her kindness. Celia was delighted to hear how sorry he was for all his past follies and misdeeds, and promised to love him as long as she lived.
Speaker A
It's good that she liked him beforehand, because if she didn't, if she didn't, and then all of a sudden, she's like, oh, this bird. I'm gonna love you forever. And he's like, it's me, the boy you rejected. She'd be like, oh, gosh, you remember.
Speaker C
The one that everyone cheered when he died.
Speaker B
That's me.
Speaker C
I'm here. I'm back.
Speaker B
That's right.
Speaker A
So, want to go out?
Speaker B
But she says yes. And so the fairy teleports them back to the castle. They go up to Suleiman. Suleman had this because he's good and noble. He had said before he was just holding the throne until the prince returned.
Speaker A
But they all thought he was dead.
Speaker B
Suleiman knew because the fairy told him. So Suleiman is more than happy to give up the throne, hand it back to the prince, who I guess becomes King Darling. I don't know. And then Celia and Prince Darling get married. They reign for many years, but he was so determined to govern worthily and to do his duty that his ring, which he took to wearing again, never once pricked him severely. So he puts the ring back on and lives a good life.
Speaker A
That's good.
Speaker B
And so the answer to what to do about moral degradation in the person is either magic rings or getting called out by someone you respect. Right? Yeah.
Speaker A
Are. You need. You need fairies, right?
Speaker B
You need.
Speaker A
It's like. So if we do want to start intellectualizing it, like, there does need to be some sort. These fairy stories say that there does need to be some sort of appeal to the transcendence. Like, there needs to be the fairy, the. The Whatever that comes in and says, like, I. As the embodiment of the standard, I'm here to remind you that you're not living up to the standard, and I'm gonna punish you if you don't. And. And that. That sense that needs to exist in the hearts of people for them to. To be able to write the ship.
Speaker B
Sure.
Speaker A
So. But. So I. Aj I want you to take back all the mean things you said about the fairies, because they ended up good, right? They ferry.
Speaker B
Did good. This fairy's all right, but it's a little risky, right? Like, you never knew what they were gonna do. And he did get turned into a monster, so.
Speaker C
And then she was all like, trixie with the girl. And I don't know.
Speaker A
That's true. That was a little strange.
Speaker C
And it could have totally gone sideways. And at the end, she's like, you've been naughty. And so I'm going to rule your kingdom, and you're going to stay, like, in a hole in the ground. You never know with fairies.
Speaker B
But he deserved it. Like, I guess that's the. But they can't be whimsical.
Speaker A
Did the dad get what he. The dad got what he wanted in the end. He did, but through a lot of pain and misery for the child.
Speaker B
That's actually. Maybe this is to AJ's point because the fairy could have like been more direct and been like at any point could have intervened and said, you are on a path where I will turn you into a monster. And instead she kind of swoops in at the end.
Speaker A
I guess it's just maybe like the true. You need to learn it yourself.
Speaker B
Right.
Speaker A
This is also even ties into what we were talking about in the in between is like, how do you influence people? Like individual part change or like big movements. Yeah, it's, you know, and the story is wise enough to know that like unless the will won't move, nothing will force it. Right. Like the individual heart needs to change and be oriented towards the. The good.
Speaker B
Maybe that is like a response also to the Plato degradation of society. Or the person is assuming that people are not learning any lessons along the way.
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure.
Speaker B
That they're just wanting the next value. That again, from being good to being honorable.
Speaker A
Yes. Without rehashing last week's Playo episode. He makes lots of assumptions that he did. That doesn't necessarily need to be the case. And that's one of them. Is that like. Like he assumes that you're going to be corrupted by money. He assumes that you're never going to sort of like morally improve yourself in many ways. Plato has that kind of like, what's the noonday sin? He kind of assumes that's built into the heart of people. So he doesn't. He doesn't think that.
Speaker C
Well, wasn't it him that claimed that you could not become more righteous, you could only become less righteous?
Speaker A
Maybe that sounds like a thing Plato would say.
Speaker C
Aristotle said that you can like learn virtue and you can recover it. Plato pretty much said, nah, I think you're right.
Speaker A
And hey, Plato did see like the city murdering his favorite teacher.
Speaker B
So it's not great. That's a cool story to be pulled back from the brink. You know, you can be pulled back.
Speaker A
From the brink, but you need fairies.
Speaker B
You need. I mean, it's. It. It's parents. Right. Like, you need someone who is in. It doesn't have to be a parent. Because I appreciate in this example it is not literally the father or mother. Mother does not show up. Right.
Speaker C
My big disappointment is Suleiman Yeah. Why wasn't he doing this?
Speaker B
I skipped over. See, he has parts where he's, like, a very good person. Again, talks about he's only a temporary king will happily give up his authority when the prince comes back. He also does not get killed, which is what Prince Darling would have done to him.
Speaker C
Well, my disappointment is that he wasn't a better guide to the prince. Right. Like, he should have been doing what the fairy was doing.
Speaker A
Yeah. This is, like, the tension of tutors.
Speaker B
Right.
Speaker A
Like, to me, this is also just the paradox of parenthood. Like, parents, guides, tutors, we can only do so much. But, like, some kids are going to learn the hard way, Right.
Speaker B
And he chose the hard way.
Speaker A
And the mystery is, like, some kids don't. Like, some kids just really take to heart when you tell them that the life of virtue is worth it, and they, like, believe it and do it, and some don't. And they have to learn the hard way or they never learn the hard way. It's kind of just like you. You plant seeds, and there's no telling which ones will kind of be healthy. Yeah.
Speaker C
I guess Prince Darling did have every opportunity.
Speaker B
It was like, yes.
Speaker C
Kind of like that comedian that points out that everyone is like, Achilles, you had everything. You're. You're the. Like, why didn't she dip in?
Speaker A
Who points out things about Achilles?
Speaker C
Yeah. So he said, like, everyone points out. Why didn't the mom just, like, grab his other heel and then dip? That other healing would have been totally impervious. And he's like, yeah, but does your mom have to do everything for you? Like, you're impervious everywhere except your heel. And you don't cover it. You don't. Like, just one little step that's yours. And the mother did everything else for you. And I was like, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. It's not Thetus. It's not all Thetus's fault, Right?
Speaker A
Yeah, but she's got the shining ankles. Maybe she doesn't want to dip those ankles.
Speaker C
Right? And. Well, there's two different versions. Like, one is he's dipped in the river. The other is he's held over the fire. Right? And so, like, he's like, if she's burning up her hands, like, I get it. Second dip is tough.
Speaker A
He's, like, toasted.
Speaker B
Yeah, he is toasty. Except for on the heel. Right.
Speaker C
Except for on the heel. And she's still got them nice ankles.
Speaker B
And Achilles had siblings who just. They got killed in that process. Right. Like, is he.
Speaker C
I can't remember.
Speaker B
I thought it was the fire version had that, but I don't know about the water one.
Speaker C
And he was, like, the only one that survived.
Speaker B
I thought that was. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. I mean, this is a story about a kid who has to reckon with the fact that people are happy when he dies. Right. And, like, that's. So. I just think the.
Speaker A
Like, It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker B
Yeah. So it's not. It has a cheery ending, but it is pretty dark of.
Speaker C
It's like the Tom Sawyer funeral, but worse.
Speaker B
Yeah. Right. And. But it's too. But it's too. But it's too as good, right, that he realizes that he is far afield of what his father wanted for him, what this fairy wanted for him, and he turns his life around.
Speaker A
So do you think we get to, like, sit at the pew on our own funeral and see what's going down?
Speaker B
I don't know.
Speaker C
I hope.
Speaker B
I don't know.
Speaker A
It'd be fun.
Speaker C
Would I want that?
Speaker B
I don't think so.
Speaker A
Although everyone's gonna be sad, and I would want to comfort them, but I kind of want to hear what AJ says that my eulogy.
Speaker C
Would I be allowed to talk?
Speaker A
You might be dead already.
Speaker C
That's fair.
Speaker A
I'm older than you, though.
Speaker C
Yeah, but I live a wilder life. I'm out there biking and swimming and.
Speaker A
That's fair. It's true. Like, I'm, like, wrapped my. Myself in bubble wrap while I read and.
Speaker C
Yeah, and take, like, a leisurely walk with your dog around the neighborhood, and I'm, like, careening down a path downtown.
Speaker A
Fair point.
Speaker B
Right. Your eulogies early so that you can hear them. Right. I would.
Speaker C
I would give a killer eulogy, I think, at your funeral.
Speaker B
Good. Well, let's do an in between, because I got to get going.
Speaker A
You got to go.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You got to boogie.
Speaker B
All right.
Speaker A
This has been classical stuff. You should know. You should live moral lives. You should listen to the rabbits, and you should contemplate how people will feel when you're dead as something to orient how you live.
Speaker C
And I need to dig into why I hate fairies so much. Like, this is a racist issue.
Speaker A
This is the thing.
Speaker C
I gotta figure I gotta sort that out.
Speaker A
Too much Dungeons and Dragons or something.
Speaker B
I don't know, man. Something. Bye, Sa.