#261 Which to Choose? Breaking Down On's Running Shoe Lineup

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 We're covering from an injury can take really intentional ways to return to your running

spk_0 and sometimes that means decreasing the amount of stress on your body.

spk_0 The lever movement system is something that I have used as a physical therapist with patients

spk_0 and also used personally when I have been returning for injuries or guiding people in

spk_0 the return back because it can offload some of the stress that the body takes with running,

spk_0 allowing you to do a really intentional and sequential return without overloading the

spk_0 tissues.

spk_0 One of the great parts about it is that it's completely mobile device and it can be

spk_0 connected to pretty much any treadmill and the affordability is so low I've had multiple

spk_0 patients be able to purchase it on their own where sometimes offloading systems can

spk_0 cost tens of thousands of dollars.

spk_0 The lever movement system actually starts under a thousand.

spk_0 And so if you are looking to try to find a way to continue to return back to running

spk_0 smart or just to manage some of the little niggles that come along with running but keep

spk_0 your running volume, I would take a look at the lever movement system.

spk_0 So if you want to learn more you can go to leveremovement.com and if you end up purchasing you can get 20% off

spk_0 using the code of DOR20.

spk_0 Hello everybody and welcome to the Doctor of Running podcast where we, a group of Doctor

spk_0 physical therapy discuss the art and science of running and the stuff that we put on our

spk_0 feet today at the round table we have the founder of Doctor of Running, Dr. Matthew Klein,

spk_0 Dr. David Salis and myself I'm Nathan Brown and we are going to be diving into a topic

spk_0 about a shoe company.

spk_0 We are going to be breaking down kind of the origin story of this shoe company going into

spk_0 some of the basic tenants of theirs looking at their foam compounds, looking at their general

spk_0 fit, looking at durability and just some metrics and after we talk about some of those questions

spk_0 and comparing where they're at compared to other brands then we're going to go into their

spk_0 specific lineup and try to give a way to break down what they offer in a cohesive way that

spk_0 can kind of organize where all of these shoes may fit and wait what you may look at one

spk_0 for versus another.

spk_0 So before we do that though we want to definitely talk about what we currently have in for testing.

spk_0 So this is our infertesting segment we're talking about what we've got on our feet right

spk_0 now.

spk_0 This is powered by scratch labs Matt what have you been testing lately and how's that been

spk_0 going?

spk_0 So the newest thing I've been testing right now has been the tier Maverick which I honestly

spk_0 thought this is going to be a gimmick and I'm at really enjoying it to be honest I've

spk_0 really enjoyed the miles have already got like 35 miles on my pair.

spk_0 Heal still intact surprisingly.

spk_0 I've got some people might hear me complain about this I've got some Achilles tendon issues

spk_0 right now that I'm actually doing really really well and I was very worried about going into

spk_0 a six millimeter drop and the rocker on this thing has been absolutely awesome it's great

spk_0 for long runs.

spk_0 It's great for up temple things it's not really good and I kind of have some experience

spk_0 where it's not really good for running fast but like up temple efforts long runs it's

spk_0 been really good so I'm excited to get more miles in these and get a review out so they've

spk_0 been solid I've been really impressed.

spk_0 Another shoe so we don't have a ton of new stuff right now I've been getting miles

spk_0 into other shoes trying to get 100 mile review on the sock and he hurt came 25.

spk_0 Mostly it's one of the only stability shoes that actually has a super full minute I've

spk_0 up to 75 miles right now should hopefully get that soon and the outsole is still intact

spk_0 for the most part but some other things with that and then the final thing that just

spk_0 came in today and I've gotten made fun of for be excited for this shoe.

spk_0 I'm very mad thank you excited about that people that might get excited for this and I will

spk_0 certainly be doing a comparison review with the Brooks ghost max is going to be the sock

spk_0 and the echelon 10 which actually already been out there for a while it's not a performance

spk_0 shoe is just one of the true stable neutral shoes out there and one of the few orthotic

spk_0 friendly shoes and so yeah this just came today and I'm very excited to get some miles

spk_0 on it because I'm a nerd and so that's what you think that line yeah you think that line's

spk_0 closer to the max like ghost max three stuff than it is to like the diet or something else.

spk_0 I version one of the ghost max no version three yes I think when I step in feel I would say this

spk_0 is it I wouldn't say it's close to the diet just because the diet had such a clunky heel

spk_0 and I never suggested as a running shoe whereas this came to run it can run yeah as well yeah

spk_0 I like the as well yeah so but ghost max could three can also run not they're not the fastest

spk_0 but they can run so that's what I'm wearing it's funny you bring up the as well on now but I'm

spk_0 thinking back to when I was working more often in the clinic versus teaching and when I was working

spk_0 in older population with balance difficulties I actually had a lot of people utilize the echelon

spk_0 because it's just a completely wide platform there's nothing that is pushing you anywhere

spk_0 very stable shoe that also allows you to operate on some rocker so I'd have a specific person in

spk_0 my mind that they ended up getting that shoe and it made a big difference for them but not for

spk_0 running by any means but it helped them stay functional yeah somebody needs yeah yeah

spk_0 well I'll go next because I also have been testing the well I'm gonna say it now I was saying

spk_0 TYR I've always said TYR for tier but it's tier and I just looked it up when you said that

spk_0 Matt and it's about like tiers of performance like upper tier is part of their is part of their

spk_0 thing yeah Matt what the only reason did I actually say it right uh huh yeah no wow let it be

spk_0 known to the listeners I said something named like they're they said the name right correct

spk_0 no taken how do you pronounce it kaiyano it's good is it right okay yeah yeah yeah

spk_0 so the old I was definitely calling it TYR uh one of my co-faculty members her daughter is

spk_0 sponsored by tier and so I heard her say it I'm like I'm assuming you know how to say it's

spk_0 it's really yeah summer yeah I think it more as a swimming brand so I got the box and Jan is like

spk_0 that's a that's a swimming company right now I was like well yeah so this is kind of their first

spk_0 foray and I think that my experience I've won running it so take it for what it's worth these are

spk_0 initial impressions fit wise I'm really excited about what they've chosen to do with their fit

spk_0 it is very topo like in its toe box it's got a very wide upper very snug though through the midfoot

spk_0 secure heel I really liked the fit maybe a little bit lower volume like a little short maybe

spk_0 but I I am not looking to size up I've got a size nine and it's fitting me really really well I think

spk_0 Andrea sized up yes sure she went up a half size so I think she'll get her miles on and give her

spk_0 review but for me I have loved what they're doing with fit I think the foam on first run feels

spk_0 solid for a first offering of a shoe that costs a hundred and fifty dollars it definitely like

spk_0 is going to level up itself in comparison to other shoes on the market like I could I'm not saying

spk_0 that these shoes run the same but in terms of performance quality your I would say it definitely

spk_0 lines up with a novo blast which I have loved that shoe but I think that the foam feel is there

spk_0 the overall geometry seems to be there the fit is definitely there and so I think that there you

spk_0 have a really good first offering and I'm excited to see what it feels like with more miles but

spk_0 I'm overall impressed and excited to see what they end up doing David what have you been testing

spk_0 yeah so I'll start off with the one that everyone's talking about this is here Maverick so

spk_0 yeah I've been very impressed by it as well from initial impressions and I feel like you

spk_0 had it spotted on with the fit it's very topo like wide toe box I didn't really have any

spk_0 vault like issues with the volume but I did you like the midfoot was more snug the heels decently

spk_0 accommodating like it's pretty wide but like it locks down really well I didn't have any issues with

spk_0 like movement of my foot and the rocker just feels really dialed in and I think I was telling

spk_0 client this in a personal message when I first got it but well at the group chat it reminded me a

spk_0 lot of in a different way not a racing shoe but like the evo pro one and that it relied a lot on

spk_0 its weight and it's really like compared to its competition where I felt like the foam it

spk_0 bottoms out a little bit at those top paces but it really feels nice I mean this is like a 44

spk_0 millimeter shoe and stack height and it's like in the high sevens from a weight standpoint which is

spk_0 crazy so it kind of just like you can kind of forget about it and just fall asleep and go into

spk_0 rhythm and it's really nice for that I feel like you don't get the bounciest ride out of it but

spk_0 it's really light and the cushion it's it falls right in the middle like it's just kind of like

spk_0 it's not overly firm it's not overly soft you just go to sleep and get into rhythm and that was

spk_0 the first thing I noticed and I was like this this could be a killer for like other shoes on

spk_0 the market especially being priced at 150 for the stack it has and the weight it has what's that

spk_0 uh I have my scale right here is eight at my size 10 is eight ounces so saw a little definitely

spk_0 very light size 10 eight points are yeah yeah I think their specs were like seven points seven or

spk_0 something which is close I'm a size nine and that's what it was for me too I was going to say in

spk_0 the boxes that they sent for people who they're like sending out for wear testing they included

spk_0 like a kitchen scale to weigh it on and my first gut is like well they fixed this scale to be

spk_0 whatever weight they want it to be so I'm using my own and it was it was the same so I was super

spk_0 it's a scale yeah everybody's is going to be seven point seven size twelve seven point seven

spk_0 that's your own scale yeah I was like like psych so like this thing is starting to get all the

spk_0 replace the batters times like I might need to update that I was kind of excited to get a new scale

spk_0 yeah that was that was cool anyway it provides good cushioning very lightweight not the most

spk_0 responsive but it's a good rocker with a good fit so initial impressions were very good

spk_0 cool the other shoe that I was surprised I had very good initial impressions I wasn't that

spk_0 surprised actually but the ultra Olympus 275 oh yeah very sure footed on very much but yeah this

spk_0 thing feels very stable for a trail shoe and trail shoes already normally feel a little bit more

spk_0 stable just because of the nature of what you're doing but it's got a very wide platform under foot

spk_0 the four foot feels good the rocker feels good especially for a zero drop shoe it doesn't

spk_0 feel like I'm slapping the ground very much I mean granted I'm used to having a drop so it did

spk_0 feel a little bit awkward at first I'm not normally someone that gravitates towards zero drop shoes

spk_0 but the second I got a couple miles into my run fell asleep it was good traction held up quite well

spk_0 we just had some rain you know rocks everything it was good the legs aren't super deep but the

spk_0 Vibram mega grip they performed quite well and then last but not least can I say one thing on that

spk_0 shoe yeah what's up yeah so on the Olympus 275 I've taken that on number hike something that I

spk_0 appreciated about well first it's very heavy it's not like a lightweight it's heavy trail

spk_0 shoes it's a it's a heavy it's a heavy shoe it's bulky but it's very sturdy and very reliable yes but yeah

spk_0 but the I've been really appreciating trail shoes that build in a little bit of a gator for you

spk_0 it just I've had with the trail running that I was doing the gators before yeah well because the

spk_0 tech the next three has one because it's just like a sock that goes a little higher but I've had

spk_0 a I've been doing a little bit more trail this year not a ton of trail because it's harder for me

spk_0 to get to but when I have I had more like rocks popping into my shoe because of the type of trails

spk_0 that we have and so that makes a huge difference to just have that and it becomes not a problem

spk_0 and I thought the upper was pretty comfortable in that shoe the Olympus 275 cool sorry go into your last

spk_0 shoe no you're good and the upper is nice it's I mean it's classic ultra you know very roomy

spk_0 in the toe box it's pretty wide throughout like but it locks down well yeah I had no issues and I

spk_0 took some pretty sharp turns on the trails that I was running and I mean it was solid the only thing

spk_0 was the weight like it's pretty heavy but for a long day out it's good and if you have to walk

spk_0 or hike it's it's smooth in that too it's not like you can only run it so definitely I actually

spk_0 like crossover yeah Hyperion 3 is the other one so I was I don't know I kind of had mixed feelings

spk_0 about but it's good it's nice it continues upon the Hyperion line so it's still a Hyperion

spk_0 but it's DNA flash lightweight trainer very neutral they took away the GTS this year which I know

spk_0 we're all sad about because the GTS has been on our awards list every year from its birth so we're

spk_0 sad about that but it's a lightweight neutral trainer gets the job done you can go a little bit fast

spk_0 you can go a little bit slow it's just kind of one of those versatile trainers sweet well that's

spk_0 what we've got on our feet this is again powered and fueled by scratch labs if you're wanting to

spk_0 get any of their stuff for hydration or nutrition they've got their fall line out right now so they

spk_0 have the apple cider stuff which again we like actually to drink like you would hot apple cider

spk_0 more so than on the run but it is delicious you can use our code doctor's running for 20% off your

spk_0 first order back you wanted to say something back would like to note and I have not tried this yet

spk_0 that the apple cider mix was sparkling water apparently is amazing I have not tried that but yeah

spk_0 he did he did do it supposedly that's the thing and I trust his culinary expertise so I'm just

spk_0 gonna put that out there you're actually right yeah culinary pieces yeah I think he would be too

spk_0 humble to say but I think he was kind of one of the leading food bloggers in yeah we

spk_0 South Carolina area and let a lot of neat initiatives of highlighting and elevating certain areas of

spk_0 food yeah he's a boss he's super cool all right well let's move on to what we are talking about

spk_0 tonight which is actually the company of on running so on running has been around for a while but

spk_0 we wanted to give a little bit of a background then we're going to dive into some of the kind of

spk_0 main things that define what is an on running shoe and then we'll break down the specific lineup

spk_0 so Matt do you want to give us a little bit of a history of on running and kind of where they came

spk_0 from and what they're doing now yeah so on obviously was a Swiss brand and it started back in 2010

spk_0 with the idea of coming out with a new type of cushioning so their idea was these this cloud

spk_0 tech and instead of having mid I mean obviously it's made of a midsole material but instead of having

spk_0 just the midsole be what provides the cushioning they were going to create these holes essentially the

spk_0 the cloud tech that was going to compress and move in different directions to provide this cushioning

spk_0 one of the things and I remember this because when they came out I was like oh that's interesting it's

spk_0 kind of like this but this is before doctors running but I was really interested in the brand

spk_0 and what they were doing they I think at FitRate or Foot Traffic we had carried one for a little bit

spk_0 and it was still in the early early early era their first running shoe they actually their first stuff

spk_0 actually they won an ISP award IPO by SP oh my gosh my best end it up that's fine keep it rolling

spk_0 they they won this award for like new design and what it on with the cloud tech and a prototype shoe

spk_0 but the first actual running shoe didn't come out until a little bit later called the on cloud

spk_0 racer so it was really started as performance racing shoe and I do remember that shoe and the

spk_0 the this is before they actually really integrated all the cloud tech together with how you see now

spk_0 where it's all connected but it was these separate little pods that gave the weirdest feeling because

spk_0 they would not only compress they'd actually come at so they would slide as well so very unique

spk_0 sensation the idea behind it remember the the reptelling is this was it is supposed to deal with

spk_0 not only horizontal ground reaction forces but also sorry deal with vertical and horizontal ground

spk_0 reaction forces and that was their claim as the clouds could move in additional directions so

spk_0 just fully compressing in more of that vertical direction which films also do it for any but

spk_0 it was a really weird sensation initially and then I honestly kind of moved on they continue

spk_0 developing stuff over the years until finally in I think 2020 2020 2019 they partnered with Roger

spk_0 Federer and did a whole bunch of like casual stuff and now ironically I feel like they're even though

spk_0 they do tons of performance stuff and they've got poor running teams and all this things I feel like

spk_0 they're known best as a casual running or as a casual brand like I see people walking in the lifestyle

spk_0 lifestyle everywhere and so they've done super well to the point that the company actually went

spk_0 public in 2021 and their US headquarters the national the world headquarters is in Switzerland

spk_0 but their US headquarters is in Portland right now down that not too far away from me about 30 minutes

spk_0 in the downtown area yeah so they've come a long way from a single shoe to now a fairly

spk_0 aggressive apparel lifestyle sport company they just put out a weightlifting shoe they've got

spk_0 all kinds of stuff so they've really grown an incredible amount from being this idea to really

spk_0 grabbing a very stronghold of the market in my opinion like again you walk outside in most cities

spk_0 you're gonna see a large number of on and they've it's really impressive to see that so

spk_0 it's a little easier I'll go ahead David the only thing I'll add is when they added Roger it wasn't

spk_0 just lifestyle they got some pretty hard-going court shoes and that's true pretty serious tennis

spk_0 pros winning grand slams as well you know not just what we see on the running side of like on the

spk_0 track and field in Olympic marathon but in grand slam at the highest level of tennis they've got

spk_0 people that are performing so here's my question for you I think the most

spk_0 distinguishing feature of on shoes through its history has been the cloud tech and kind of these

spk_0 pods that are present in the shoes I don't even want to talk about the development and changing of

spk_0 those pods over time yet but when we think about those original pods Matt that you were talking about

spk_0 yeah and even some of the integrated pods from years ago maybe five six I'm thinking of

spk_0 in 2017 when I ran the Chicago marathon they had a big booth and that's the first time I saw on shoes

spk_0 how much of that concept was real and how much is a gimmick in your mind oh gosh

spk_0 depends on when we're talking about and this is where early earlier stages

spk_0 oh it's never going to send me anything again um I yeah I think my challenge so are you talking then

spk_0 yeah yeah I think there was something to it I think they had this great idea but there were

spk_0 limitations because obviously make the thing too big it's not going to stay in the sagittal plane

spk_0 i.e. front to back it was going to wobble all over the place um they had mostly single pods at that

spk_0 point and it wasn't until later that they started integrating all them into a single midsole um

spk_0 yeah it was an interesting sensation I will say it wasn't the same as it is now it's a very

spk_0 it was a very different feel it was definitely firm and they were not as light as I would have

spk_0 ever hoped them to be for that technology like there's a lot of super life stuff and that's it

spk_0 wasn't even coming close but it did give a very unique sensation and the uppers were the probably the

spk_0 most unique part to be very honest because they were so light these thin see-through materials but

spk_0 again how much validity I think it was a cool idea I don't know how well it was actually like

spk_0 actually came through to be honest David do you have thoughts on that?

spk_0 yeah I think gone was an interesting situation because I've seen multiple interviews with their owner

spk_0 and like he actually like initially like proposed it to other companies and it was shot down left

spk_0 and right across the industry and then it got to the point where it's like all right I'll make

spk_0 my own company let's do this made it you know and just kind of worked their way up their

spk_0 ranks and now we're talking about them today so I give them a lot of credit for just staying with

spk_0 the idea and having like what client alluded to a novel experience on the foot right like it was

spk_0 different than the other stuff that was out there whether it was better you know I don't know but

spk_0 it was different what's that let me let me answer this to Nathan's thing I think from a running

spk_0 perspective I don't think it worked nearly as well as a walking perspective the on walking shoes to

spk_0 this day they are super comfortable it's got this nice rock right it really rolls really smoothly

spk_0 very very comfortable sign not surprised yes David mentioned this that across many sports they've

spk_0 really they've taken out especially in tennis but just from a lifestyle walking perspective they

spk_0 are super comfortable and I will say the running they're working on a little bit but the the

spk_0 multiple goals that are right fine yeah just spikes right no I'm just kidding but they they're

spk_0 doing they are doing really well but the initial concept I felt like to answer Nathan's question

spk_0 didn't work as well for the for the average runner to be honest and I include myself in that

spk_0 I think my perspective on them is there's a reason there's a reason why these pods have

spk_0 gone undergone significant changes that the pods have also decreased in significant size

spk_0 particularly when they look at some of the performance shoes there there are significant changes I

spk_0 think for a reason and part of it is there's an element where it is so distinguishable that that's

spk_0 a boon for the company but it did not perform how they need it to perform for running concept cool

spk_0 function not so cool and in my opinion the ability for these on shoes to be good which we're

spk_0 going to talk about how good we think they are in terms of performance in time I think depends more

spk_0 on the foam property than the cloud tech formation I think that those are pretty different from

spk_0 each other but let's stick on the cloud tech for a little bit longer and one of the things that I

spk_0 think people who haven't tried on or who have tried on start to talk about this idea of how

spk_0 durable are these pods and do they break down over time do they flatten out does it depend on which

spk_0 on shoe you're talking about how do these cloud pods behave over time David do you have thoughts on

spk_0 that yeah I mean like any other property it's going to give a little bit more over time but I

spk_0 think and I'm sure we'll talk about this later but when I look at on as a company and I look at

spk_0 the public viewing of on many people talk about on being a quote unquote firmer shoe those pods

spk_0 start to give and that shoe becomes softer and I actually feel like those pods break in pretty

spk_0 well maybe the shoe properties don't hold up in the same way that you would expect a traditional

spk_0 midsole to hold up like let's say you go and you buy an a6 nimbus and you have this high stack

spk_0 rocker shoe and it's all one piece and it kind of holds its right a little bit longer I almost feel

spk_0 like the on shoes are meant to break in a little bit because in my experience with a lot of their

spk_0 models as I get more miles on them I actually like them more and I've been experiencing that with

spk_0 the cloud surfer max especially which I already liked unboxing it I know there's polarizing

spk_0 opinions on that shoe specifically mix cloud surfer max superbowl boom max shoe I hate that shoe

spk_0 sorry yeah exactly no that's what I'm saying I think like Bach and I love that shoe but I've

spk_0 got it right here here's the cloud surfer max the place of the on cloud eclipse yeah but a lot of

spk_0 people gave it a lot of smack because it was marketed as this high cushioning shoe when it came out

spk_0 the box very firm and I will acknowledge it came out the box very firm it was a high stack rocker

spk_0 shoe that was firm I liked that but it broke in well and I feel like it's one of those shoes that's

spk_0 grown on me over time but there I think the midsill just it breaks in and I feel like it's almost

spk_0 meant to break in sure the way that it feels on foot with that said we live in a market where you go

spk_0 into a shoe store you try out a bunch of shoes you're gonna walk out with the one that feels the

spk_0 best on your foot and I think in the running world they haven't always struck the hottest on that

spk_0 initial step in feel and I think that's why you almost see a little bit of a dichotomy amongst the

spk_0 running I don't want to say the purists out there but like there's a lot of people out there that are

spk_0 like oh no those aren't running shoes right like those are lifestyle shoes those are people like

spk_0 I don't know I feel like they have this weird kind of connotation that like they blend in more with

spk_0 like you're like dress it up with your like Lulu lemon your Viori like your athletes your quote

spk_0 on quote kind of crowd but like this is a serious running company and I do think they're making good

spk_0 running shoes and I know out of the three of us I tend to be the one that likes on shoes more

spk_0 but I do feel like some of the shoes are designed pretty well and I do think they transition

spk_0 well for the most part I think for me I'm a strong buy on on the idea that on running makes legitimate

spk_0 running shoes I'm a huge buy on that I think that they have a very vast lineup of shoes shoes that

spk_0 are going to work for different kinds of runners and different preferences and they aren't just

spk_0 gimmicky so I know I called like the concept of these pods a little bit gimmicky especially the

spk_0 earlier end again good ideas that just didn't functionally come out and like play but they make

spk_0 legitimately good running shoes right now we talk about some of the athletes your side of

spk_0 things and part of the brand identity is a more premium brand so I think you get if you look at

spk_0 exact cost price comparison you probably get less of a shoe for the cost in terms of performance

spk_0 but if you want the on like brand and style you're gonna pay for the brand and style I think that's

spk_0 part of that's part of their reality when it comes to the durability I think that the newer pods

spk_0 are much better at durability than the older pods I think back again to like before 2020 a lot of

spk_0 those running shoes even like the guys who are in our running club who had them the pods would

spk_0 actually like break because the only thing distributing the force was the you see this happened to

spk_0 you Matt you should go you should talk about it because I was yeah with the club and I'll say

spk_0 different break did you ever bust a Nike AirPod uh I don't think I did I think I were mostly in

spk_0 the forefoot so for you it's yeah I would rip through the outsole but never busted but yeah I

spk_0 with the cloud racer and eventually cloud flash which is a later model um then I try to get and I

spk_0 ripped the uh outsole pods off and I saw I saw come off but I was in the middle of work outside

spk_0 it and stopped so somewhere there was a piece of a pod there's a piece of a small cloud racer pod

spk_0 sitting in Pomona California somewhere so yeah it would so because I'm so hard on shoes I'd

spk_0 rip through it and the pods would just like fully tear off eventually for me yeah and and even if

spk_0 they aren't falling off those earlier models because when when you would compress the shoe the pod

spk_0 goes from a space to closed you know those would go from the point where they would stay open when

spk_0 just standing and then do some compression whereas then you know a couple hundred miles in

spk_0 you're standing in the shoe and the the pod is all the way already collapsed and so I think that

spk_0 was a shortcoming of the earlier shoes as well even after they moved into the kind of integrated

spk_0 midsole but then you're seeing changes with smaller uh cloud pods with the phase tack

spk_0 even smaller when you get to some of their performance shoes you know like pretty much all

spk_0 their racing stuff you know the appearance of the pod is really aesthetic at this point and it's

spk_0 just off already off the foam so I think from a durability standpoint they're now in my opinion

spk_0 pretty much matching everything else fully knowing that our ability to really gauge durability as

spk_0 shoe testers is much less than people who actually bring these things to end of life because

spk_0 our end of life it looks a lot different because we are always testing new shoes so I think we have

spk_0 a huge limitation to really speak to this but the durability of these pods now that they have new

spk_0 designs they're smaller you're now you're seeing is the durability of the foam there not so much

spk_0 is this pod going to influence it but the older models and even some of the lifestyle stuff now

spk_0 which is not meant for running are going to probably break down earlier because you don't have

spk_0 distributed load it's only on those bridges between the pods Matt you're going to say something

spk_0 I actually have several on shoes that I've gotten to a hundred miles both both the recent not

spk_0 recent but not the on cloud boom max but the on cloud boom echo three and the on cloud boom strike

spk_0 the strike is one of my favorite racing shoes it's been for the foam here the geometry has been

spk_0 great and again hundred miles and this thing is held up really really well I also do that

spk_0 on a pair of cloud surfers so I can attest that some of the stuff is starting to handle pretty well

spk_0 the other piece that I think is contributing to this is that you know we honest typically

spk_0 stereotyped is being firm however they have several shoes that are definitely not firm and I would

spk_0 say the on cloud surfer line is definitely like their mainstream like the cloud surfer I think it was

spk_0 did they go from on cloud server server seven to all now on cloud surfer two or did I hallucinate

spk_0 and we can change the song cloud surfer yeah just the surfer and this surfer and then they

spk_0 would just surfer two got it I wasn't losing so the the cloud surfer there it be this one

spk_0 and the original they're actually very soft and I was really impressed I think that's when they

spk_0 started seeing them experiment a couple new forms but also the geometry of the clouds has changed so

spk_0 for me that really kind of slides in it compresses very very nicely for me because the the cloud

spk_0 tech is angled the right way with some of the forces so I think that's really helped and another

spk_0 insanely popular shoe not just for running but you'll see a lot of people standing in these I've

spk_0 seen a surprise number of retail individuals working like wearing these I'm like man I wish I had

spk_0 these back when I was standing for hours on in but competing very well with Brooks and Hoka is the

spk_0 on cloud cloud monster on cloud monster has been extremely good I got the original up to 100

spk_0 miles and I'm working on getting the second one of the year to know yeah the second one I'm having

spk_0 a little trouble with right now because my killies and it feels like a very negative drops or like

spk_0 it almost zero drop shoe for me because of the this actually compresses quite a bit but they do

spk_0 have some softer shoes so again it's so it's now becoming a little more variation of yes they

spk_0 typically tend to be a little bit firmer but you're starting to see they're they're figuring this

spk_0 out and you're getting that cloud experience so it's coming and it just takes some time to work

spk_0 on it but it's been impressive because they stuck with it and then adding some some of the new

spk_0 foams right have been phenomenal so little defense for them because they are they are making some

spk_0 strong pushes now that they yeah I think part of the reason why on has been firm is because they've

spk_0 needed the pods to stay intact and so they've used a firmer foam because they needed something

spk_0 that could hold its structure but now that they're changing now that they're changing how these

spk_0 pods look they can introduce softer foams so we have this diversified kind of portfolio that on

spk_0 has because they've changed their geometry of those pods so I and I'm excited about that because

spk_0 they have invested in good product in terms of the foam compounds that they can put into shoes and

spk_0 I think that was kind of where I wanted to go next is where do you all feel can someone define like

spk_0 what are their different foam off offerings and how do those foams compare to other brands and if

spk_0 they kind of stand up to it yeah I think with that one it's a tricky one because a lot of times

spk_0 they're integrated together so yeah what they call the quote unquote helion super foam is what

spk_0 they've always kind of called that base missile well that's helion hf what he's holding up

spk_0 that's the and they're super shoes and also the and all their racing models they use helion hf

spk_0 helion is a different foam and I don't remember what that is to be honest I don't know if

spk_0 do we know off top my head I mean we could just say it's a base midsole like an EVA or some kind of

spk_0 TPU or something but it feels pretty EVA to me but we'll just say the reason why because they say

spk_0 helion super fun but then they have the cloud tech as like the quote unquote like geometry and then

spk_0 as they move forward they have the cloud tech phase which is in the cloud surfer lineup

spk_0 but I view that more as a geometry but then when you look at the cloud monster hyper they say that

spk_0 they have the helion hf midsole with the cloud tech kind of casing yeah you're holding that up so

spk_0 I think the way you can view it is almost like helion is kind of the base regular foam and the helion

spk_0 hf is the performance foam and that's going to be kind of more your like traditional Peeba kind of

spk_0 lighter faster more compliant bouncy kind of foam which is consistent with the lineups of shoes

spk_0 that they have but they haven't been quite as public as far as like what is this actual foam

spk_0 construction made of to my knowledge yep what I'm looking at when looking it up the the thing

spk_0 that cues me and somebody who's a chemical engineer can probably correct me but it says it's a

spk_0 proprietary super foam that is temperature resistant which makes me think more of the day when you

spk_0 see like TPU TPU Pee Peeba yeah really the regular regular regular regular regular regular is an

spk_0 EDA kind of treated yeah a little bit but they've always they've always called it a super foam though

spk_0 that's where I think the confusion is yeah the noise of helion super foam even from the beginning the

spk_0 the hf is definitely some kind of like Peeba based thing that's awesome yeah yeah cool do you

spk_0 think that that foam is consistent with other brands like you think about what's going on with

spk_0 sockney's main lines or you know what you've got with flight foam in a6 like do they how do

spk_0 those compare with each other to me it totally depends on which shoe we're talking about just because

spk_0 I feel like the characteristics of each shoe are very different you know we for me I'm one of the

spk_0 few people that have run in the stability shoes and so the on cloud flyer and the on cloud runner

spk_0 are really firm like the on cloud flyers specially on cloud runner is actually fairly rockered and smooth

spk_0 out but it's still very firm but then you firm and then you compare it to something like the on

spk_0 cloud monster the on cloud surfer which are very soft shoes again like on cloud monster some some

spk_0 people might argue but there's a lot that that midsole compressive balance is quite a bit the on

spk_0 cloud surfer is really soft and then you have something like the out cloud monster hyper which kind

spk_0 of sits interestingly in the middle I have not try we have what's the we have not tried the on

spk_0 cloud boom zone so I don't know but I would say I would try that the super phones especially with

spk_0 the initially real little firm but now they're getting bouncy responsive and so it's yeah it's

spk_0 kind of hard to characterize just because everything has really distinct things you can stereotype on

spk_0 is being firm but they've got some solid variation among their models now anyway so yeah it's hard

spk_0 to put them in one category to me they're definitely in my you know somebody from on can come and

spk_0 correct me but yeah some companies say if something is healing on it's the exact same foam no matter

spk_0 the shoe it's in some companies like we've had Nike has said this and sockney has said this where

spk_0 they have power on PB for sockney but it's a different power on PB in the triumph and then it

spk_0 would be for the endorphin pro so I would venture to guess that the helion that on uses is different

spk_0 depending on the model and a great example is the cloud surfer line the cloud surfer and cloud

spk_0 surfer twos helion feels so different than the helion inside of the cloud surfer max very different

spk_0 feel much firmer as David already mentioned in the cloud surfer max and so like you said it's hard

spk_0 compared but I think from a daily trainer capability standpoint I think it for in my opinion it's not

spk_0 like it's this worser foam I think it no it's on the it's on there it's more of like hey what sort of

spk_0 level of softness do you like and if you're going to find variation in the brand you're going to find

spk_0 it between brands but it's not like they're sitting far behind there are definitely companies that we

spk_0 have tested that have tried to make running shoes and they just don't know what a foam needs to be

spk_0 nope on has a foam that works in my opinion and it's just if it lines up with what you want or not

spk_0 I think of it almost like a dichotomy like they have helion and then they have helion hf

spk_0 and then it's like your training models are pretty consistent with other training models

spk_0 their helion hf is pretty consistent with other performance models yeah could it be softer firmer

spk_0 yeah sure but I feel like it's pretty comparable from a performance standpoint on both ends

spk_0 yeah that's great okay so now what we want to do is transition into talking about the line of

spk_0 shoes that on has they have a lot of offerings so I'm excited to talk as a group and try to lay out

spk_0 how do you categorize on shoes what sort of buckets do you put them in and then how do you

spk_0 understand their their naming system and what shoes are going to be like what David are you up for

spk_0 giving our first shot at this and how you categorize on shoes yeah I think they are one of the

spk_0 companies that in some ways it's simple and other ways very confusing yeah and I would say on the

spk_0 simple end if you see a boom in the nomenclature so cloud is kind of the base model portion yeah that

spk_0 doesn't really say anything about the shoe so you would say on cloud whatever follows the easiest

spk_0 way to think about this is like on cloud boom if you see boom it's employing some level of performance

spk_0 on cloud boom echo super shoe on cloud boom strike super shoe on cloud boom max

spk_0 suposit super shoe for the masses you know kind of like recreational easy running shoe that can

spk_0 go 26.2 that's up for debate but it does use hili on hf that's like so you can pretty much

spk_0 bank on hili on hf being in the shoe from a nomenclature standpoint the only um

spk_0 um like shoe that doesn't fit that mold is the on cloud ultra pro that does use here on hf

spk_0 but that is in the trail lineup and so you kind of get the ultra in the name um that's kind of

spk_0 the one that breaks off from that from then like now if you look at it so now you have the on

spk_0 cloud and then you can insert the model name from that point forward so I will go to the surfer

spk_0 lineup next so the on cloud surfer when I think of the surfer lineup I think of a shoe

spk_0 when on first got started they used a lot of like these plastic plates that they called speedboard

spk_0 that was pretty much a given in almost every shoe that's not the case anymore when you look at

spk_0 the on cloud surfers I think of that as like your quote unquote flagship neutral shoe so the surfer

spk_0 is the regular kind of flagship neutral then you go down to the next the next is kind of meant to be

spk_0 the more the snappy a little bit stiffer so here's the cloud surfer next that I'm holding up for

spk_0 the viewers a little bit stiffer it's got a little bit more bounce to it but it's still kind of

spk_0 no speedboard surfer flagship neutral a little bit softer has a little bit more flexibility

spk_0 cloud surfer max kind of in the name max more of it and a little bit of a stiffer rocker profile now

spk_0 the phone properties people have felt differences between the cloud surfer and the cloud surfer

spk_0 max but I think the general ideology stays the same there where it's like no speedboard kind of your

spk_0 flagship neutral it gets more confusing when you go to the other models now cloud monster is

spk_0 going to be the high stack it's a monster that's kind of the idea right so a lot of shoe cloud

spk_0 monster hyper includes the helium hf is that hyper foam I don't actually know what the hf stands for

spk_0 that's a great question I don't know the answer yeah but anyways cloud monster hyper has the

spk_0 on hf with the cloud tech base the stability models are very confusing you have the cloud runner

spk_0 which is kind of like your moderate kind of light to moderate stability and your cloud flyer which

spk_0 is your more structured stability that I feel like just kind of comes with no end the names

spk_0 I don't really have any great mnemonic or anything from memorizing that but I kind of look at it

spk_0 that way I know that was a very long winded answer to break up I think it's good shoes but it's

spk_0 like boom performance surfer flagship neutral no speedboard everything else is kind of a wild west

spk_0 yeah from uh just just for the record from a very quick check with our resources hf stands for

spk_0 hyper foam according to our sources which will go unnamed that would make however somebody who

spk_0 actually knows can comment and tells what it is uh but don't blame us blame our sources I'm not

spk_0 gonna say what our sources were okay mad did you have any other ways that you categorize these

spk_0 mad or David I think you did a nice job with kind of different lines and kind of scaling them I

spk_0 think that's what a lot of companies have are these scalable lines mad do you have anything to add to

spk_0 it no I think that was perfect actually and it also is a really great example of the evolution

spk_0 that on is going through where I think in the past they were just throwing they had this name this

spk_0 name and now you're starting to see these categories what I really hope and on please don't leave these

spk_0 behind like a really a lot of other people are is that maybe the stability line might start getting

spk_0 its own name that might go forward just to organize things but I think David you hit down the head

spk_0 that it's it's actually if you look at that name it should give you some structure and understanding

spk_0 okay this is what I'm getting into cloud boom's gonna be more the performance lineup for a variety

spk_0 of people cloud monsters more of your monster rights the higher stack kind of softer foam bounce

spk_0 your larger shoe and then you have the cloud surfer lineup which is kind of your your standard

spk_0 series that they're really starting to lean into you have a couple others like the on cloud flow is

spk_0 a great example the trail lineup varies we have not tried the on cloud flow unless one of you has

spk_0 and I don't know David no nothing is one but cloud flow four is great yeah I haven't tried the cloud

spk_0 for flow five and then the trail lineup is a little bit mixed with the on cloud ultra pro the

spk_0 on cloud vista we are forgetting one for the road that I really wanted to try not the venture

spk_0 and then not the road there's a trail and a road version of it why am I forgetting the name of it

spk_0 it's supposed to be their maximum like taller max cushions you but it's really firm but it's

spk_0 really nicely rockered why am I forgetting this it might be the on cloud's stratus

spk_0 I think is another one but I prefer trail yeah I think the there's a surfer trail yeah which is

spk_0 actually pretty solid I've tried that before but I think David hit it on the head there's a lot

spk_0 of organization that's happened I think we're gonna start seeing a lot of these shoes kind of

spk_0 transition the example of this the on cloud surfer max which originally called the on cloud

spk_0 eclipse which was a great shoe and I really enjoyed that one but they're consolidating so I think

spk_0 and I can't speak for on it looks like they're working on consolidating some of the stuff into lines

spk_0 rather than having these random names so I think it makes more sense to be nice honestly yeah

spk_0 yeah know what to expect when you're looking at specific models Nathan was it on cloud

spk_0 stratus yes the third one is out and I remember I ran inversion one and I actually enjoyed it

spk_0 even though it was really firm the trail version was awesome yeah but yeah the cloud's stratus

spk_0 three I don't know if there's plans for a four what the what's going on there but yeah there

spk_0 or it seemed to be organizing their lineup which is really nice for consumers I think that that's

spk_0 also going to that's gonna change what the offerings look like in two years from now I think they're

spk_0 gonna continually take out because there there are too many one-offs right now and we're starting

spk_0 to have these defining features like David you said the boom is probably gonna have helium HF

spk_0 the surfer lacks a kind of a plastic plate in the shoe so I think those are nice

spk_0 things to be able to categorize them into different things I'm curious what they're gonna do

spk_0 with the monster because those are kind of like two one-off shoes that there's almost a crossover

spk_0 they don't well yeah but I think well the monsters are really well I totally agree I'm not

spk_0 suggesting they get rid of it but I'm just saying now you have you know the cloud boom max and you

spk_0 have the monster hyper they are different but they and you have surfer max they start to bleed into

spk_0 one another so I think we're in a transitional period where you're I look at these and I'm like well

spk_0 what do you want them to be do you want and they're probably like if you knew what we had three

spk_0 years from now they would all make sense because some of those are gonna go away we're gonna change blah blah blah

spk_0 but right now I think that there's some overlap which can be confusing when trying to figure what

spk_0 you want because right now you know the the functionality of the in my opinion of the cloud monster

spk_0 hyper and the on cloud boom max is very similar they run differently but they're both these heavier

spk_0 max stacked a little bit of pop they kind of soften up over time they roll pretty well that you

spk_0 get into rhythm handle long runs like that's what they both do they just do it a little differently

spk_0 like the the monster hyper is much more stable not that the cloud boom max is unstable but the the

spk_0 casing of that helion around the hf just really gives you a really stable ride it's even more stiff

spk_0 in my opinion than the max even though there's a plate in there so I don't know I think we're gonna

spk_0 see some further differentiation some clarity of what the shoes are supposed to do and we're kind of

spk_0 in this weird transitional period I think the thing that's maintained though is that there's

spk_0 clearly been a focus on performance Olivia I think I apologize the the creator's name was a gold

spk_0 metal Olympic medalist obviously there's been a performance standpoint and focus from this is

spk_0 why you're clearly seeing them do well at the track and field and like road surface is starting to

spk_0 show up with Helen O'Berry and then that group but like the on club who strike is phenomenal the

spk_0 on club who echo three was a great shoe is one of Andrea's favorites I am really excited to see

spk_0 version four which it's been you know it's been like two years since we reviewed this shoe yeah

spk_0 yeah the echo has been a minute yeah it's been a minute so I'm hoping version four is coming out

spk_0 but it was a solid shoe and then a lot of stuff because it is and the

spk_0 McConnell's ice cream 10k a couple years ago yeah really yeah yeah there's shout out McConnell's ice cream 10k

spk_0 I will say that a lot of the shoes still have a performance standpoint I have loved the on

spk_0 surfer necks it's a really snappy shoentre foot on cloud monster can become very responsive so

spk_0 it's definitely unique they don't have a lot of mushy shoes most of them are going to either be

spk_0 firm responsive and Dave was right they do tend to change and I'm wondering if maybe some of

spk_0 the clout where we as reviewers are not getting enough miles on them to really see what they feel

spk_0 like as the super extent although my experiences with the ones that I've gotten to 100 miles have been

spk_0 great so it's definitely a unique company but it's also really cool from a cultural standpoint which

spk_0 again to me is super interesting that they've taken such a strong hold at least throughout the

spk_0 United States I can't speak for early in min cities anyway I can't speak for the rest of the world

spk_0 but it's been very interesting when I went to Houston for CSM and last year it was same thing like

spk_0 wow I even Texas there's a good number of people wearing on that's really interesting

spk_0 Portland Seattle LA I'm mostly on the west coast but it's been the same thing every time I've

spk_0 gone around so that's a very unique shift that they've worked hard for.

spk_0 Let's say even in point a lot of the lot of the PT students have on shoes it's just kind of and

spk_0 they're not not running shoes but just their kind of casual kind of daily wear lifestyle shoes

spk_0 very very popular around here too. I am curious from you all or just one more thing you're saying Matt

spk_0 I think we get shoes to 100 miles and that's a lot for us people want to run in shoes for 500

spk_0 600 miles we get like a fifth of the way I'm curious from people who have been doing that in

spk_0 on shoes share your perspective in the comments on YouTube or whatever about your experience with

spk_0 durability of some of these flagship trainers thinking about the surfer line or if you're using

spk_0 the monster like what is durability been like for you because that is the feedback that's going to

spk_0 help people who really prioritize durability more so than what we can pull off so again comment

spk_0 below if you have thoughts on the durability side of things the last question I wanted to ask

spk_0 about on shoes and remember you can add in any other categorizations as you want but I think we

spk_0 hit that pretty decently how do you feel about the overall fit of these shoes and if you let's talk

spk_0 about fit but then also if you're going to recommend one on shoe to maybe try as your first forane

spk_0 to it as a daily trainer which one would you go with I'm going to jump in and say that yeah for the

spk_0 not all but for the most part I love on uppers it's among the group I again get get made fun of for

spk_0 how much I dislike the ride of the on cloud boom max and it was like one of the shoes I was looking

spk_0 forward to most and just and I shoot don't it was it was it's just two stiff and I'm hitting probably

spk_0 hit the playerly but man the fit is phenomenal it's like the most anatomic toe box from like

spk_0 from a non ultra topo company that I've seen a while though tears now might be taking that but

spk_0 their uppers man the fit is phenomenal I'll say the same thing about their peril they even though

spk_0 their peril is insanely expensive if you've seen me running you probably seen me in one of the many

spk_0 pairs of on cloud ultra tees that I bought on sale or bought on eBay because I love the fit is

spk_0 phenomenal and that's I think also why they're they've really taken off casual lifestyle because

spk_0 the fits are great they're usually a teeny not all of them but they're usually got some nice

spk_0 stretchy uproads that are just a teeny bit wider at least in the running in the more lifestyle

spk_0 shoes they tend to be a little bit more snug like that's something I like about the cloud surfer next

spk_0 because it's just a teeny bit more snug it's got that more performance feel but there's actually

spk_0 a surprising amount of room the on cloud monster definitely wide it's great and when I've talked to

spk_0 people like I think the most I've actually seen them is that Costco where when I go to Costco and I'm

spk_0 like I always comment on people shoes and like hey how do you like like everybody else wearing

spk_0 hookup rucks how do you like on like dude this was like one of the wider fits I love this so fit-wise

spk_0 absolutely phenomenal yeah I guess I could pick you back except for the on cloud surfer max I

spk_0 don't like that I like that you man I like it a lot actually but when I think I'm on to it's one

spk_0 of the few companies on our team that I feel like and we mentioned this with rabbit the other week

spk_0 that like we're fortunate enough to be seated some of these things but we've gone out of our way to

spk_0 actually purchase some things from this company as well and that's mostly in the apparel realm but

spk_0 they also have like a pre-owned section on their website that they call what is it it's like on

spk_0 forward or something like that but you can go to like a pre-owned section and I actually decided

spk_0 to try that out for the people that do kind of see like a price barrier because you can get some of

spk_0 the performance tees for like pretty cheap and like some of the other offerings yeah what's up

spk_0 Matt it's called onward by onward that's what it was I feel like that's a really solid like

spk_0 dad yeah no it's great yeah it's a great great tagline I don't know how I could forget that

spk_0 anyways it's actually pretty good I've used it myself I've purchased multiple pieces off of

spk_0 that and you can get nice pieces of apparel for pretty cheap or you can do an idea of

spk_0 just them on it yeah on it not off of that yeah well no onward onward onward yeah or if you do what

spk_0 I do where just onward guys onward I just hunt on eBay we don't need to stay here yeah this is

spk_0 getting worse as we keep going I'm sorry that's my fault no no but from the upper fit though I do

spk_0 think they have some good uppers I will say like when I think of companies that I really like

spk_0 uppers from I've really liked Newton I've really liked on oh gosh thank you for saying new

spk_0 yeah like there's certain companies like Topo always has good uppers like there's just certain

spk_0 companies you can almost rely on having a pretty good fit on the foot itself like who cares about

spk_0 the rest of the shoe like obviously that could be different for so many people but you can almost

spk_0 always rely on a good upper and I feel like on doesn't really take very many shortcuts and the

spk_0 fits usually pretty good it feels good the materials feel premium they feel like they'll hold up

spk_0 they don't stretch too much you know when you make turns or you do weird things like I feel like

spk_0 they all feel pretty dialed in whether it's meant to be more streamlined and performance or it's

spk_0 meant to be more cozy and accommodating I feel like they do you kind of hit it pretty well I don't

spk_0 know if there's really been an on upper in recent history that I could think of that I didn't like

spk_0 you know I'm looking at like a lot of on shoes on the floor right now and every single one of them

spk_0 I like to fit so yeah from an upper standpoint they they usually do pretty well they nail it

spk_0 I don't have anything to add phenomenal fit phenomenal fit so I know I pose that other question

spk_0 what would be the first on shoe you would maybe recommend people try out but I think I want to go

spk_0 a different direction instead because we haven't even started answering that question and one of

spk_0 the other things that's commonly talked about with on shoes because they have these pods is that

spk_0 they're just gonna get filled with rocks you're gonna run on it and the rocks gonna be like in the

spk_0 pod has that ever happened to either of you do you think that's a legitimate concern it hasn't

spk_0 happens to me where it's in the pod I feel like I've had it before where maybe it gets on the

spk_0 midline groove yes not on the surfer but like on the like the very first cloud monster there's a

spk_0 deep midline groove in there I definitely got a rock in there well that's the cloud boom max though right

spk_0 so I I'm sorry a cloud monster on you I do not have the monster me Matt does the midline

spk_0 groove is pretty deep oh this is on the first one the first one all the way to the speedboard this was

spk_0 this is the second one is filled in I think for that reason yeah but yeah because I would get it in

spk_0 the first one for sure I actually did have a rocket stuck and this is back when some of their

spk_0 trail models actually had the and I think the cloud vista still does but the actually on cloud

spk_0 stratus I think it was the trail version I actually had a rocket stuck in there and it was pretty

spk_0 easy to pull out didn't get stuck deeply but it just kind of lodged in the side randomly but for

spk_0 the most part ironically no I haven't had that be an issue I think I have original models that

spk_0 might have been a different story like I would never have taken the cloud racer on anything trail

spk_0 that was road only but I think they're trail stuff like the cloud all cloud all your pros like one

spk_0 of my favorite trail shoes and maybe my trail shoe of the year right now so yeah and those are

spk_0 those are really small pods tiny pods I think even trail did you end up doing that 50k no are you

spk_0 doing the lucky I got sick oh I am lucky I was maybe gonna give it a go I've literally been sweating

spk_0 bullets over this for the last couple weeks and I got a game time decision I don't know what the

spk_0 exact day is he's gonna tell me if he does it or not and that determines whether or not I do a 50k

spk_0 in the trails so for the people who don't know I know I should have said the people who didn't hear

spk_0 this conversation on a previous episode my friends were running a 50k I kind of was getting dragged

spk_0 into it and was gonna just give it a go my toe started bugging me so I was like full in if my toe

spk_0 was gonna handle it toe kind of got worse took a couple weeks off and I was like maybe I'm just

spk_0 gonna go for this and then I got sick and then it was just I'm not gonna not gonna go so the deal

spk_0 wasn't reminded of doing it David David was gonna have to do it as well last thing on the rocks for me I

spk_0 run on the green circle trail which is like crushed granite all the time and I that's where I do

spk_0 most of my training and testing miles never once have I had one of those small kind of granite rocks

spk_0 get into the side of a pod if the shoe has a groove on the bottom it's gonna get a rock in it no

spk_0 matter what brand it is if I like I've gotten rocks in the max and those don't bother me but

spk_0 otherwise I have I haven't had the issue where it goes in the side so is there anything you all

spk_0 want to add about on running or shoes or considerations for people with special conditions before we

spk_0 wrap things up I would say one of the things to pay attention to is most of their models are

spk_0 pretty rockered and so what that means is there's some exception to this like like the cloud

spk_0 X and things like that but a lot of the models including some of the walking ones as well they're

spk_0 gonna be highly rockered so that can feel really good like kind of rolling it that takes can take

spk_0 some load off the foot and ankle just know it's gonna put some more workload into your hip and knee

spk_0 that's not a bad thing it's just gonna shift the workload I think that's why people like that when

spk_0 I can attest that walking in a pair all day yeah feet usually feel fine it's just maybe some stuff

spk_0 up higher can get worked a little bit so just know that just based on the design that's not an

spk_0 common thing my other comment is that if you're interested in this brand I would honestly keep it

spk_0 simple and try the on cloud surfer or the on cloud monster series and just want like because those

spk_0 are well cushioned I think they're very competitive with the other running shoes on the market they've

spk_0 done a good job they're not nearly as firm as some of the more kind of unique models in the online

spk_0 up and I think those are the two really really start your game with the on cloud surfer is very

spk_0 neutral so if you need more stable right it's not not nearly the best so that's not as terrible as

spk_0 it kind of looks and the on cloud monster is definitely a great should just be careful the uppers

spk_0 a little bit lower volume through the mid foot so I had some irritation on top of my foot but I

spk_0 have enjoyed this so I think those two are the other flagship shoes that you should try and then

spk_0 if you decide hey this company's working for me or if you're also the person that wants a more

spk_0 moderate stack height shoe and we know that those are disappearing really quick they actually have a

spk_0 decent number from the on cloud surfer next the cloud runner is not a maximal stack

spk_0 at shoe they have a wide range where I feel like a lot of companies are really only in that max

spk_0 Christian area there there's a decent spread and especially if you like firmer shoes which

spk_0 isn't always a thing they they certainly have their firmer shoes so you know there's there's something

spk_0 I I would start there and then move outwards if you are more interested fantastic well thanks

spk_0 everybody for joining us for this conversation about on running and if you have any other thoughts

spk_0 about on or things we didn't talk about or things that you may disagree with please comment below

spk_0 reach out to us we love to hear your perspective on this stuff and if you want to check out more of

spk_0 what you're doing of what we're up to you can go to docksofrunning.com or if you want to reach out

spk_0 to us about something for a future podcast episode that you'd like us to talk about you can reach out

spk_0 to us at docksofrunning at gmail.com thanks everybody

#261 Which to Choose? Breaking Down On's Running Shoe Lineup

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