229. “I’m almost 50 and have nothing to show for my life”

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Okay, listen up, the schedule for the rest of my 2025 money coaching calls is out and

spk_0 we have an awesome lineup.

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spk_0 Plus I answer members questions.

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spk_0 That's IWT.com slash money coaching to join right now.

spk_0 I worry about our lack of retirement accounts and I worry about our lack of saving.

spk_0 Since my savings account is at $101, we know I'm not saving.

spk_0 I owe $125,000 to student loans on $17,000 principal.

spk_0 The rest is interest.

spk_0 We have been planning stuff.

spk_0 We're making it plan.

spk_0 Dad, you don't have a plan.

spk_0 I'm 57 years old.

spk_0 I'm only now on this point getting my finances and my stuff in order in life.

spk_0 I ask him the same thing why he gets cash out and I think it's so he can hide his spending

spk_0 so that it can't be trapped.

spk_0 Every dollar I have goes to this household except for the money that I waste it.

spk_0 This is not fair.

spk_0 You're not even married.

spk_0 I'm going to meet you if he's old in three years and it feels like I have nothing to

spk_0 show for my whole life.

spk_0 Is it too late?

spk_0 What if you didn't start saving or investing when you were in your 20s or 30s?

spk_0 Today we're about to get a look into this pressing question for tens of millions of Americans.

spk_0 In today's episode I speak with Christine and Fat.

spk_0 She's 47.

spk_0 He's 57 and they do not have nearly enough money saved or invested to retire on time.

spk_0 Each have six figure loans which creates a toxic mix of frustration and complacency and

spk_0 even hopelessness.

spk_0 They're also not married despite being together for over six years largely because they're afraid

spk_0 marriage would impact their debt payments.

spk_0 Watch as we unpeel layers of psychological fascinations especially when we see how their

spk_0 psychology affects their numbers.

spk_0 I'm about to preview a few items from Christine and Fat's conscious spending plan which breaks

spk_0 down their net worth income and where they spend their money.

spk_0 You can download and create your own conscious spending plan or CSP at iwt.com slash CSP assets

spk_0 zero dollars investments 136,496 dollars savings $2,612 debt $339,000 for a total net worth

spk_0 of negative $199,000.

spk_0 Their combined income is $167,625.

spk_0 Now this CSP is going to reveal a lot more in the episode but first tell me in the comments

spk_0 when did you start first managing your money in a serious way?

spk_0 What age?

spk_0 Why did you start then?

spk_0 And if you haven't yet started that's okay too.

spk_0 I want to hear from you.

spk_0 Okay now let's get into it with Christine and Fat.

spk_0 I want to give a shout out to our new Spotify viewers and listeners where we recently started

spk_0 releasing each Spotify episode in video format and I love seeing all of our new viewers coming

spk_0 in and watching these episodes with real people sharing real numbers from behind closed

spk_0 doors.

spk_0 Big thank you to Spotify for your partnership.

spk_0 If you already listen on Spotify click over to video.

spk_0 There is nothing like catching these subtle moments and facial expressions that you can't

spk_0 catch with audio alone.

spk_0 I understand you've been together for over six years.

spk_0 You've been living together for most of that time and you have spent that entire time

spk_0 in debt.

spk_0 Yes because I've spent my entire life in debt.

spk_0 Got it.

spk_0 But also my fixed costs are very high.

spk_0 So there isn't also a whole lot I can do about it in my half of the you know just living

spk_0 expenses are most of my paycheck.

spk_0 Since we've been together I don't think we've occurred any debt.

spk_0 We have both brought debt into the relationship through our big debts but once we started

spk_0 getting together and once we moved in together right then at that point we were like mashing

spk_0 bill for bill anything over that I didn't save.

spk_0 What do you mean you were matching what does that mean?

spk_0 So when we moved in together we split the right I would pay my half she pay her half

spk_0 you know when we first started getting together there was employment issues so we like one

spk_0 person has made more than the other a little bit and it's gone back and forth but it's

spk_0 also going up over that course of time.

spk_0 So over that course of time we've been working together on the finances and we really haven't

spk_0 acquired much any debt in the six years has it gotten better or worse in six years?

spk_0 It's getting better.

spk_0 Okay that's good meaning you've paid off debt.

spk_0 Well I think yes and no so we're responsible for like our own debts right now so I do have

spk_0 credit card debt and I paid it down but it's not going fast but like for example we have

spk_0 actually accumulated some debt but it's all been in the service of like paying down previous

spk_0 debts and we're just going to throw you under the bus dad.

spk_0 He got a masters degree and didn't finish paying the last bit of his tuition but we needed

spk_0 his transcript and they wouldn't release it without paying the last bit of tuition which

spk_0 was like $3,500 or something crazy.

spk_0 So we had to get a personal loan from our credit union in order to pay it because who

spk_0 has $3,500 just laying around?

spk_0 Has what the two of you've been doing with money been working?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Okay because I'm confused because we've only been talking a few minutes and I have gotten

spk_0 multiple contradictory answers.

spk_0 Do you have debt?

spk_0 Yeah well we haven't accumulated any but actually we have accumulated some.

spk_0 Is it getting better?

spk_0 It's getting better but it's also getting worse.

spk_0 I'm wondering what the pattern of your answer is reveals.

spk_0 Well I think that's sad often likes to put a very positive spin on things.

spk_0 I guess if do I do.

spk_0 I can tell you the big element that you know can you do it like I'll just figure it out

spk_0 myself whatever we need so that sort of.

spk_0 Avoid her.

spk_0 Yeah like try to do myself and then you know.

spk_0 But that you're 57 years old.

spk_0 I mean yes.

spk_0 I feel like if it was going to work it would have worked.

spk_0 I feel that like I understand the problem.

spk_0 I think that I'm doing the best that I can and addressing every issue of the problem.

spk_0 What does that mean specifically?

spk_0 Like we're doing everything that we should be doing but you're doing it right now

spk_0 if that you're you're presenting a positive spin like oh it's been good for the last few

spk_0 years.

spk_0 No it's so crap.

spk_0 They're so bad.

spk_0 But like I'm learning I've learned you know as we're you know like I open mail now as

spk_0 before I never open mail so that's a step.

spk_0 You know that's a step up and you know.

spk_0 We talk about this a lot our dynamic between that you know I feel that I attempt to I'm

spk_0 trying right I'm willing you're not you're not trying right now in this very answer.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 I'm getting lost.

spk_0 You got you guys get lost when you talk about money right?

spk_0 Is that yes.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's what I'm trying to tell you we don't really have a fight about money because mostly

spk_0 I'm just managing it all and I'm saying do this and it's not getting done.

spk_0 Okay let's talk about that.

spk_0 Yeah let's death are a big fight right there.

spk_0 You know like we talk about money on Sundays we talk about money a lot we're doing it

spk_0 now like right now we're talking about money right?

spk_0 We are always talking about money and I'm there so you know and you're thinking is rear

spk_0 We are really not talking about money that much and like we are set to have reoccurring

spk_0 conversations on Sundays during our set aside date time and it doesn't happen on most

spk_0 Sundays.

spk_0 I guess it's so frustrating because the money is like what we need to deal with.

spk_0 We can't be fighting about the stuff that we can't control and we are talking about

spk_0 it and we are doing it together.

spk_0 Accept it we can control these things and we're just not because we're not talking about

spk_0 them.

spk_0 But we have to be talking about it right now.

spk_0 We're talking about it right now.

spk_0 Can we do this?

spk_0 I'm actually going to flip the script.

spk_0 You've clearly thought about it so I'm actually going to turn it over to you.

spk_0 Oh geez.

spk_0 What do you think is the problem and what do you think is the solution?

spk_0 I'm a warrior and he's an avoider and so I worry a lot about our finances and I worry

spk_0 about our lack of retirement accounts and I worry about our lack of savings and he isn't

spk_0 avoid her although I mean sure to what he's saying he is getting better but it still is

spk_0 like why is this male unopened recently a medical bill sat under our kind of for $50

spk_0 sat there for I don't even know how long two weeks or something until it got passed

spk_0 due and only then was like like look we just pay it and any long didn't it was paid

spk_0 in three seconds flat you know and I was just so irritated that's like a really common

spk_0 I think example of how it goes.

spk_0 Then our normal conversation comes up on Sunday and he'll say well we already talked

spk_0 about money during the week we've already had our conversation.

spk_0 I asked you to describe the problem and then tell me what you think the solution is.

spk_0 Oh the solution.

spk_0 Seems you've got a bit lost in the story because we didn't get to the solution.

spk_0 What do you notice about my question in your response?

spk_0 That I'm both frustrated and I don't know the solution.

spk_0 Do you think your problem is a $50 medical bill on the counter?

spk_0 No I don't.

spk_0 I think that's probably a symptom of something much larger.

spk_0 I noticed that you are a cryer I know.

spk_0 You're crying now.

spk_0 Why is that?

spk_0 Because I just find it so frustrating.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 What part do you find frustrating?

spk_0 I'm going to be 50 years old in three years and it feels like I have nothing to show

spk_0 for my whole life.

spk_0 I can't get myself together enough and neither do that.

spk_0 It feels like we just keep doing the same thing where I have to micro manage all of our

spk_0 finances.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And that part can be really frustrating because I'm trying to get my own stuff together

spk_0 too.

spk_0 I'm trying to pay down my debt so that we can save more than I'm trying to.

spk_0 It'll put some extra money aside and stuff but it's not possible and then I have to

spk_0 micro manage his finances on top of mine and that can be very challenging.

spk_0 Sounds like a lot on your shoulders.

spk_0 Can I suggest a different approach?

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 You jumping in to solve the problems is actually part of the problem and you're even doing

spk_0 it with me.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 When I mention that she wants to control things, it's really to fight.

spk_0 She's not meant but she feels like she doesn't control.

spk_0 So we'll have a big fight if I'm saying if I mention control or that.

spk_0 I'll stipulate and I will be willing to go on on a limb that Christine will agree that

spk_0 maybe she sometimes has the need to be in control.

spk_0 Christine, would you agree with that?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 When we feel out of control, we will often try to control the smallest things to give

spk_0 us a sense of control in an otherwise uncontrollable world.

spk_0 Christine, how is this striking you?

spk_0 He gets what?

spk_0 That says all the time.

spk_0 I just try to control things.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Take your time.

spk_0 I want to jump in here because what Christine is feeling is a massive clue.

spk_0 Have you noticed how she communicates?

spk_0 It's frantic and I would describe it as controlling.

spk_0 Even here on this show, she seems to try to take over the room.

spk_0 Now that might seem odd until you realize what this moment means for my guests.

spk_0 To get here, they've gone through months of prep, applications, calls, filling out a

spk_0 CSP, AV checks, all kinds of stuff.

spk_0 They've carved out times from their lives.

spk_0 So for them, this is not just a casual Zoom call.

spk_0 To a lot of guests, they see this as their one shot.

spk_0 So when someone like Christine tries to steer the entire conversation, it's not random.

spk_0 It's kind of like walking into a surgeon's office and then telling them how to operate.

spk_0 So I flipped it.

spk_0 I handed her the reins.

spk_0 Okay, Christine, you tell me what the problem is and then tell me what the solution is.

spk_0 And did you see what happened?

spk_0 She floundered.

spk_0 She brought up an unpaid bill.

spk_0 Then jumped straight to, I'm going to be 50 and have nothing to show for my life.

spk_0 That's not a very satisfying answer, especially from someone who wanted to run this conversation.

spk_0 And I'm reminded of this classic psychology experiment called the invisible gorilla test.

spk_0 People were shown a video of players passing a basketball and asked to count how many times

spk_0 the ball is passed.

spk_0 Now while they are watching these players pass the ball, a person in a gorilla suit walks

spk_0 directly through the entire scene.

spk_0 But half of the people watching this never even noticed the gorilla.

spk_0 Their attention is so locked in that they miss what is obviously in front of their face.

spk_0 And that's what's happening here.

spk_0 She's so caught up in her story, her fear, her need for control that I'm not sure she

spk_0 can see what's right in front of her.

spk_0 And this happens to a lot of us, which is why it is so helpful to get a third party to

spk_0 talk to.

spk_0 If you find yourself stuck repeating the same painful story over and over, ask yourself

spk_0 a few questions.

spk_0 If this were happening to someone else, what would I say?

spk_0 When I react the way that I've been reacting for so long, am I actually solving anything?

spk_0 Am I trying to control this outcome?

spk_0 Why?

spk_0 And finally, what am I not seeing?

spk_0 Everyone has an invisible gorilla in our lives.

spk_0 Sometimes it takes someone else to point it out.

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spk_0 But, Dad, what about you?

spk_0 The problem is what in one sentence?

spk_0 Communication.

spk_0 What's the solution?

spk_0 Clear communication.

spk_0 Why does she have to ask you to pay the bills, your own bills?

spk_0 Well, those are my poor life skills.

spk_0 I'm 57 years old and only now on this point getting my finances and my stuff in order

spk_0 in life.

spk_0 Can I ask you the question again?

spk_0 What is the problem and what is the solution in two sentences, please?

spk_0 The problem is lack of clear communication between two of us and trust in each other.

spk_0 How do we do it?

spk_0 By going on a podcast and learning how to do it.

spk_0 I mean, I'm responsive to the things that we come in with plan and acting them.

spk_0 Not just paying bills, but you know, no.

spk_0 I think I'm doing this.

spk_0 Like, what am I not doing?

spk_0 I need to do better.

spk_0 Okay, so that's a problem.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Dad thinks he's doing everything that he can.

spk_0 Christine, do you agree or disagree with that?

spk_0 I disagree.

spk_0 How does that strike both of you that you may not even understand the problem much less the

spk_0 solution?

spk_0 Hey, well, I do think that is the problem.

spk_0 That you don't understand the problem?

spk_0 I guess, yes.

spk_0 Like, we have been working together, lock, stock, and barrels,

spk_0 as far as what our objectives are and how we choose those.

spk_0 Like, we have been planning stuff and we've been making it plan going forward.

spk_0 According to you, you have a plan and it's working.

spk_0 Christine, you think we have a plan and it's working?

spk_0 I'll be it not fast enough.

spk_0 I think we have a loose plan, but we have no clear idea how to get there and we're clearly not there.

spk_0 What about the debt?

spk_0 The only debt that I have is by student loans.

spk_0 What's the debt pay-off date?

spk_0 I mean, never.

spk_0 I mean, who knows?

spk_0 No, no.

spk_0 And what about retirement?

spk_0 How much do you need for retirement?

spk_0 I have nothing in retirement.

spk_0 How much do you need for retirement?

spk_0 Oh, I have no idea.

spk_0 How about how much do you need for an emergency fund?

spk_0 We talk about having like $400 minimum rights so we can get like a rug or this or that

spk_0 or things like that.

spk_0 No, that's not an emergency fund.

spk_0 That you don't have a plan.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Guys, I really want to help you, but it's going to be very difficult if you're not ready to learn.

spk_0 You obviously have some serious financial challenges because you're in your 50s, 40s and 50s.

spk_0 As you put it, broke.

spk_0 Oh no, anything about how much you need for retirement.

spk_0 And I want to help, but I can't help unless you are willing to accept the help.

spk_0 Trust me, you do not just need a budget and trust me, you do not just need a plan.

spk_0 The some magic plan that I'll come up with because if you needed that, you would have done it yourself.

spk_0 There's something much deeper going on here, but what I need from you is to accept that you need help.

spk_0 And right now it feels like every time I ask a question, you're both resisting me and telling me why

spk_0 actually it's not that bad.

spk_0 Let me explain why I'm pushing them so hard right now.

spk_0 Christine and that are living in an alternative financial reality and they don't even know it.

spk_0 They are in dire danger, but instead of acknowledging it, they're minimizing and justifying and spinning,

spk_0 they can't even answer basic questions like what's the problem or how much do you need to retire?

spk_0 But they're confident, confident and wrong.

spk_0 And that's a very dangerous combination, especially when you are older.

spk_0 It's like their house is burning down and they're arguing about the paint color in the hallway.

spk_0 You can probably hear it in my voice too.

spk_0 I'm getting less patient because I want them to take advantage of this opportunity and make a change.

spk_0 But first, they have to recognize that there's a major problem.

spk_0 Obviously, it's not working so far.

spk_0 So my job now is to play detective and find the angle that might have a chance of resonating with them.

spk_0 Let me try.

spk_0 Okay, I'm going to ask Dad to read off this first box that can you read off the word in bold

spk_0 and then the number in full next to it for this entire box, please.

spk_0 Asets is zero.

spk_0 Investments, $136,496.

spk_0 Savings is $2,612.

spk_0 debt is a total of $339,000.

spk_0 And the total net worth is a negative $199,000.

spk_0 All right. What do you both think of those numbers?

spk_0 The numbers in the surprise me because I didn't idea what they were.

spk_0 What can you add to them?

spk_0 It's surprising because it's not such a high negative number.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Christine, what about you?

spk_0 We have a combined quarter million dollars in student loans.

spk_0 I mean, if you were to pull that out because I don't think either of us will ever get our student

spk_0 loans paid out even before we die.

spk_0 I've been out of college 25 years and I saw $180,000.

spk_0 I'm never paying those off even if I tried really, really hard and put everything into it.

spk_0 It kind of feels like those two student loans are on our back burner a little bit.

spk_0 I'll pay the minimum and get that monthly payment made.

spk_0 But I'm not making any efforts to pay it off because I just won't get to $180,000

spk_0 before I die, I think.

spk_0 If you pulled those out, I think our numbers are exactly what I thought they were.

spk_0 It's not great.

spk_0 It's not a great picture.

spk_0 That's for sure.

spk_0 What does that mean?

spk_0 It's not great.

spk_0 I'm not surprised that our assets were zero.

spk_0 We have no car and we have no house and we have no business.

spk_0 So I do wish our savings was higher for sure.

spk_0 That's not even enough for an emergency fund.

spk_0 You know what I mean?

spk_0 Now you two are not married.

spk_0 But for the purposes of this CSP, we combine the numbers just for easy math.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 If we break those numbers apart, the $136,000 in investments,

spk_0 is that Christine?

spk_0 Yeah, I think my part of it is something like $127,000.

spk_0 No, $129,000 was mine.

spk_0 And of the savings, $2612?

spk_0 I only have about $150 in savings.

spk_0 And then the debt, $339,000, how's that broken out?

spk_0 It's like I said, it's primarily our student loans.

spk_0 He has about $120,000, $180,000.

spk_0 Let's look at the income.

spk_0 Christine, can you read off your combined gross monthly income, please?

spk_0 I can.

spk_0 It is $13,969.

spk_0 If we combine your income just for easy math,

spk_0 then your household makes $167,625 per year.

spk_0 Did you know that?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 We did.

spk_0 Really?

spk_0 Which is why it surprises us that we're in

spk_0 such a natural straits.

spk_0 It has a guess.

spk_0 Hold on, hold on.

spk_0 You're all about to start going off into story land.

spk_0 Just answer my question.

spk_0 Did you know that you make $167,000 a year combined?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 That's interesting because Christine, you told me at the beginning of this call,

spk_0 I'm broke and I don't make any money.

spk_0 I don't because only part of that's mine.

spk_0 Only $67,000 of it is mine.

spk_0 That doesn't sound broke to me.

spk_0 Yeah, it sure doesn't, but I don't ever seem to have any money.

spk_0 You make $70,000 a year.

spk_0 Not quite, but yeah.

spk_0 Wow, even I'm sorry, $69,465.

spk_0 You make that much.

spk_0 I think I make only like $67,000,

spk_0 which doesn't make a difference.

spk_0 Even in my example, you can't allow an approximation.

spk_0 That's fair.

spk_0 Have to make sure that I know it's less.

spk_0 Why?

spk_0

spk_0 What does that get you?

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Some sympathy, I think.

spk_0 It doesn't work for me.

spk_0 You're not getting any sympathy right now.

spk_0 People say this podcast will feel bad for me.

spk_0 Because they know how little it is.

spk_0 I don't think so, Christine.

spk_0 Believe me, I am way under the average for a person in Arlington.

spk_0 Would you consider $167,000 a lot of money?

spk_0 Not a lot, what do you think?

spk_0 A lot, I mean, a lot.

spk_0 Okay, Christine?

spk_0 Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much a lot.

spk_0 Yeah, that part of it is a little like,

spk_0 why do we feel painstall,

spk_0 although I can look at the numbers and kind of guess where the problems are.

spk_0 All right, let's do the rest.

spk_0 Let's look at the fixed costs here.

spk_0 Hold on.

spk_0 Fix, wow, I'm surprised.

spk_0 Fix costs are at 61%.

spk_0 I would not have expected that the way that the two of you talk about money.

spk_0 Well, right, but you can see the personal breakdowns of the fixed costs

spk_0 where I shoulder about 80% and hit is only about 50% of his income

spk_0 because we're paying exactly half of everything.

spk_0 Yeah, that's a major problem.

spk_0 So I feel very stressed.

spk_0 Let me explain what I'm seeing here.

spk_0 Christine is paying 78% of her take home pay to fixed costs,

spk_0 while that is paying 50% towards fixed costs.

spk_0 So considering that Christine is making a lot less than that,

spk_0 she's still paying 50% of their rent.

spk_0 Okay, so we're going to talk about that fixed costs,

spk_0 but let's just go through the rest of it.

spk_0 Investments, zero.

spk_0 Savings, what?

spk_0 Three percent combined, but I want to point out they're saving $175 for vacations,

spk_0 $100 for a sewing and improv class, but zero dollars for an emergency fund.

spk_0 Yes, but don't explain.

spk_0 Don't explain it.

spk_0 Okay, we're just looking at the numbers.

spk_0 Okay, there.

spk_0 36% combined for guilt-free spending.

spk_0 Christine's guilt-free spending is 17%.

spk_0 That's guilt-free spending.

spk_0 49%.

spk_0 So that is spending essentially half of his take home pay on guilt-free spending.

spk_0 What is that guilt-free spending money go towards?

spk_0 It's nothing in particular.

spk_0 It's a nickel and dime kind of situation.

spk_0 Just wasteful spending.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Oh, well, I do have a daughter, and so some of that goes towards that.

spk_0 Like her teeth and dentist and the costs for like school clothes and shoes and...

spk_0 Okay, well, let's talk about that then.

spk_0 Dad, take us through your spending.

spk_0 Suffice to say...

spk_0 No, no, no, I don't want to suffice it.

spk_0 I want to know what you are spending on.

spk_0 Closed shoes, food, and that's it.

spk_0 All right.

spk_0 How much are you spending on clothes?

spk_0 A hundred dollars a month.

spk_0 Okay, that's the first thing you're mentioning to me.

spk_0 Closed is a hundred dollars a month.

spk_0 You're spending...

spk_0 Is that right?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 40 bucks a month.

spk_0 Oh, we went down.

spk_0 And most...

spk_0 What's all that stuff in the background of the videos that I see?

spk_0 What's your background?

spk_0 Those are the board games, hobby.

spk_0 How much did all those cost?

spk_0 You're interested in that one, just...

spk_0 A lot, but...

spk_0 We haven't purchased any new games in the last like three years.

spk_0 We're doing the numbers, though.

spk_0 We have cut that off.

spk_0 You guys ready to give me a real answer instead of trying to deflect?

spk_0 It's 20 years worth of stuff, right?

spk_0 I mean, I don't know.

spk_0 $10,000?

spk_0 No, $10,000.

spk_0 I have no idea.

spk_0 In truth, I don't know.

spk_0 It could be $5,000.

spk_0 Yeah, I've bought $5,000 to the better number.

spk_0 $5,000.

spk_0 Because it's about 40 bucks, Bob.

spk_0 So it's about $5,000.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 $5,000 to $10,000 on games.

spk_0 What else do you spend any year, many of them?

spk_0 I'm wasting it.

spk_0 That's all.

spk_0 Like, you know what I'd say.

spk_0 On what?

spk_0 Food, cigars.

spk_0 How much on cigars?

spk_0 $15 every two days.

spk_0 So 30 bucks a week.

spk_0 You better redo that math.

spk_0 $15 every two days is not $30 a week.

spk_0 About 30 times, yeah.

spk_0 It's about 30, 40 bucks a week on cigars, honestly.

spk_0 How much is that per month?

spk_0 Let's say $200.

spk_0 $200 are a fine food.

spk_0 $300.

spk_0 $300 on food.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 What do you spend that money on?

spk_0 Eating out at school, eating out at different times.

spk_0 Eating out at school and what was the other one?

spk_0 Like, I'm a teacher and so I got for lunches

spk_0 about $12.

spk_0 Like a sandwich and a drink and chips.

spk_0 Tax?

spk_0 Tip?

spk_0 15 bucks.

spk_0 Oh, yeah.

spk_0 Of course, tip.

spk_0 Of course, I was waiting for many, many years.

spk_0 Yes, I do tip.

spk_0 So let's say 20 bucks.

spk_0 About 20 bucks.

spk_0 Do you notice what just happened?

spk_0 You said 12 bucks.

spk_0 The real answer is probably 20 or maybe even more.

spk_0

spk_0 People who are ashamed of money and who are in debt, they will often

spk_0 use ranges.

spk_0 They'll say something like, oh, it's like 12 to 15.

spk_0 It's actually more like 20 and they feel very, very uncomfortable

spk_0 being honest with how much it is.

spk_0 They always err on the side of

spk_0 less than they are actually spending.

spk_0 Yeah, I do.

spk_0 I do.

spk_0 You do?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 All right, so how much you spend per month on eating up?

spk_0 When I say $300, $300.

spk_0 Do you have it on your credit card?

spk_0 I do not.

spk_0 Where do you spend the money?

spk_0 I get cash.

spk_0 Why?

spk_0 It's just so bad.

spk_0 I don't believe that.

spk_0 Because I sometimes all lose the card.

spk_0 Like in the last couple of years, I've lost the card.

spk_0 I don't use it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 What the f*** is going on right now?

spk_0 This is not believable to me.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Well, I ask him the same thing

spk_0 why he gets cash out and I think it's so he can hide his spending

spk_0 so that it can't be trapped.

spk_0 I just don't believe it.

spk_0 I don't believe that you only spend $300 a month on eating out.

spk_0 I don't believe that you only spend $40 a month on clothes.

spk_0 The way you're presenting it, oh, me innocent,

spk_0 doe, I don't know where the money going.

spk_0 You keep telling me on one hand, I'm spending a bunch of money

spk_0 and I'm like trying to figure out where

spk_0 because it's almost $3,000 per month.

spk_0 How are we getting to $3,000?

spk_0 Okay, to be...

spk_0 Can I say be fair one thing?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 I just want to know the numbers.

spk_0 Where are you getting to $3,000 a month?

spk_0 I can't help you unless you tell me accurate numbers.

spk_0 The numbers you are telling me are not adding up.

spk_0 That's it.

spk_0 All right, can we take a little break for a second?

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 I'm going to be really honest.

spk_0 When that asked for a break, I thought he was about to shut this whole thing down and leave.

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spk_0 That the amount you have left at the end of each month with your income is 49% of

spk_0 take home pay, which is $2820. And we can't quite figure out where is the money going.

spk_0 Well, I love discussion and thought about it and sort of broke it down. And I think a lot of it

spk_0 was going to sort of going out and sort of drinking and maybe hanging out with friends and

spk_0 party and wasting money and that sort of line-like kind of situation. How much?

spk_0 Whatever was left. I mean, I'm being honest with you. I appreciate it. I've tried to,

spk_0 if I said this in the beginning, if I have money in my pocket, I'm spending it. As long as I pay

spk_0 my rent and my food and the bills I got to pay and I'm meeting my obligation and in relationship,

spk_0 then everything else is mine. That did you grow up poor? I grew up very, very poor.

spk_0 Yeah. What you just said is very typical of people who grew up poor.

spk_0 I know that we overtalk, but again, these are issues that we've talked about and they've been

spk_0 walking with for years. Maybe you're a little vague or that, but they are, I understand the

spk_0 relationship between my money and how it's taught and raised and how the habits I have now.

spk_0 And it's been a very long struggle to break those. And the difference between self-awareness and

spk_0 action is a mild part. It's hard to be completely open and honest when you can't be completely

spk_0 open and honest. About the drinking and alcohol and trussing. I have been talking about switching

spk_0 from living in the moment and having fun in the moment, which I will always do, as opposed to

spk_0 putting money aside and saving it for the future. That has always been a balance.

spk_0 And the latter has never been something that's been I thought about. And now I realize

spk_0 I'm going to reach retirement age. When do I hear another? I need to be prepared or not.

spk_0 That's why I'm willing to be honest like having with here.

spk_0 I appreciate the honesty. Without you sharing this, the rest of the picture is incomplete.

spk_0 It actually doesn't make any sense.

spk_0 I know. And I knew that. I'm so sorry. Because I was trying to fix the problem without telling

spk_0 you guys the whole truth. I appreciate that. And I would say the one thing that I was embarrassed

spk_0 about coming on the show for was the I owe $125,000 to student loans on $17,000 principal.

spk_0 The rest is interest. Because it just ignored it for 20 years. And you're like,

spk_0 if such a minor thing, at this stage of life, I could pay that.

spk_0 But they have $17,000 ballooned to 120.

spk_0 But isn't there some relief in being able to just shine a light on our deepest shame?

spk_0 Just to say like, yeah, I didn't know. And also, I was negligent and irresponsible.

spk_0 And here I am. What's done is done. I'm coming here because I want to understand why I behave

spk_0 the way I do. It's not okay anymore. I can tell my wife is not okay with it anymore. She's

spk_0 been crying for almost an hour. And I want something better for the next chapter of my life.

spk_0 So I put myself in your hands, show me some ways to get there. That's how I approach this.

spk_0 Like you tell me you have struggles with alcohol and student debt. Okay.

spk_0 Everybody's got struggles. I appreciate the honesty. I hope you can see.

spk_0 I'm not here to judge. It brings that fuller light. And now we can really start to talk about

spk_0 what is truly going on here and what can we do about it. So thank you. I was surprised to hear

spk_0 he was keeping a secret. And I don't mind secrets. I don't even mind being lied to on this show.

spk_0 It's part of my job. But usually people tell me the truth about the broad strokes. What I think we

spk_0 can see here is the powerful grip of shame. Like you and I can deal with being angry or sad or

spk_0 even resentful. But shame is a very, very powerful emotion. It's often like emotional quicksand.

spk_0 When we feel ashamed, it's difficult to even talk about it much less come up with a solution.

spk_0 That's why it's so important to get help. I also want to point out that I'm very sensitive to

spk_0 addiction issues. It's not my place to ask anything here nor am I qualified to. I don't know if he

spk_0 spent $1,500 or $150,000 on drinking in the last 10 years. I heard him. I acknowledged it. I filed it

spk_0 away and moved on. What matters is that he admitted it. And now we can move on to what's next.

spk_0 Because if he wants any shot at building a real financial future, this is where it's going to start.

spk_0 What do you remember your family saying about money? Well, it was an active

spk_0 situation. My mom was a single mother for a long time. It was really bad money. At a very young age,

spk_0 I realized that at the end of the week, it was going to be gone. I'll tell you, we would chase

spk_0 checks. We'd buy food, spend the money, go to a movie. And then for that, I would have to go

spk_0 to the grocery store to get cash and put in the bank to cover the check from the previous day.

spk_0 She would chase a check all week. And I realized we're sacrificing a moment of play,

spk_0 on a Sunday to have fun. But I see we don't have the money for it. We're doing a lot of work

spk_0 to cover that. How did you know you were poor? I knew I was poor because of friends and

spk_0 like expensive life. So I was babysitting. I see how other people lived. I also, my mom had

spk_0 a whole set of friends. And around eight or nine, they kind of said, hey, you have to start

spk_0 taking care of your kids more. You're son more. Be more responsible. So it was an ongoing

spk_0 kind of narrative throughout our neighborhood. In our very poor neighborhood, my house was the

spk_0 dirtiest of all the houses. I could never in my entire life have people over for, never had

spk_0 friends over. Never had girlfriends over. You know, have to hide that shame. And I will say the

spk_0 biggest thing that impacts me that I think impacts me the most is at the end of my grandmother's life,

spk_0 she had a whole internance. It was just an ugly scene to watch that play out. My mom,

spk_0 whose resentment is her whole life, doesn't want to spend a dime because it's detracting from

spk_0 her and her. And it's not telling people things, you know, and like I think in the end,

spk_0 uh, remember all past and she had like all this money didn't reveal it. And I did what I did when I was

spk_0 a kid. I said, you know, I, I need PlayStation 2 and I'm done. It's all I want. You have $200,000.

spk_0 What did your mom do with the $200,000? I mean, look, it's just she would buy $1,000 shares.

spk_0 Like we had these four chairs. They're $1,000 each. And we had a house that had dog poop in the kitchen,

spk_0 you know, and I'm like, you're going to buy chairs that cost $4,000 to put them in a house that has

spk_0 dog poop in it. It's that guy's size hole that you fill with things, you know, never gets filled.

spk_0 But you know, she just kept spending and spending and spending trying to fill it, you know.

spk_0 Do you see any similarities with your mom spending and you're spending? I mean, exactly. I

spk_0 did each station in my life. I would look at like where my mom was. You know, and see the mistakes

spk_0 that I've done that I'm falling in her path there. And like I don't want to go that path, but my path

spk_0 there's no other option out there, you know, even if we sit down here today and come up and I

spk_0 understand what the plan is, and we have a budget and I'm willing to work at all, you know, there's

spk_0 just the amount of time between now and then. Yeah. What lessons do you think you took away from your

spk_0 childhood as it relates to money? I don't value it much. It comes. It goes. I waste it. I spend it.

spk_0 I drop it. So you spend it. You waste it. You enjoy it. And go get more. Yeah. That's it. Right.

spk_0 Basically no big deal. Yeah. I think that's a pretty accurate lesson that you took away from

spk_0 your child. And look at your mom. Yeah. Yeah. She would spend it. Check chase. Do all this stuff. And

spk_0 and if we take an honest look at her situation right now, sexually. Okay.

spk_0 I also, I'm telling my childhood, I took away is I never expected to live past the age of 30,

spk_0 right? Your dad died at 30. My dad was never in the picture. No one into my family. I know it at

spk_0 30. I just know that everyone died. Like it was just an arbitrary number like in my neighborhood.

spk_0 Just many, many people died. Why they all died? Like in the 80s, like a lot of drugs, like crack hit

spk_0 in their neighborhood. Where did you grow up? Pittsburgh. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I went to college

spk_0 and came back and it was devastated by that epidemic. But even prior to that, like not having the

spk_0 you know, a community where your dad's were present, you know, the family structure wasn't there.

spk_0 You know, understanding that it existed. We just didn't have it. This is really opening my eyes to

spk_0 to your you today with money when you take me back. And I think it's a gift you're giving me.

spk_0 A lot of people cannot imagine what it is like to grow up in a neighborhood where you just don't

spk_0 see a lot of older men. They just not around. You know, how many people from the time you were young

spk_0 to the time you were 30, do you know in your neighborhood that died? I literally was telling my

spk_0 dad, talking to my daughter about this, you know, about this because I'm raising her and she's a teenager.

spk_0 I was going over and I think that two-thirds of the people I grow up, if not 85% or dead,

spk_0 or like in prison, but like, yeah, I want to see you that I know made out of there.

spk_0 I think it seems somewhat apparent like why he has the, you know, takes the actions he takes.

spk_0 I guess spends the money and doesn't save it. I too did not have a good role model for that. And

spk_0 when he's growing up with a single mom, you know, poor neighborhood, you know, if people around him

spk_0 are not living to an old age, why would you prepare for that? It's, you know, I've known these

spk_0 mistakes. I've been living with this and battling this lack of money, you know, my entire life.

spk_0 And, you know, I've made some tries, but just when you're aware of it, it's, you know, that makes the

spk_0 pressure. And I have to break that habit of, if I have it in my pocket, then I can spend

spk_0 or what? Or, or I'll continue to be dead. Have you ever thought about it? Like, really thought

spk_0 about it. If I keep going on the path that I'm going on, I'm already in my late 50s.

spk_0 I am homeless under a bridge. Are you being real? I'm being 100% honest. I would be homeless

spk_0 under bridge still trying to do stand-up comedy at the age of 70. And I'm a dreamer, so I still

spk_0 think for some reason, I'm going to make it big somehow. My job was on the floor listening to that.

spk_0 It's one thing to hear someone say that they grew up poor. It's another thing to hear the vivid

spk_0 details of what that really means, like never inviting a friend over or never expecting to live

spk_0 past 30. Most of us have no idea how deeply socioeconomic class shapes our life and even what we

spk_0 believe is possible. And this is what people mean when they use that word privilege. You know,

spk_0 that word that everybody's got set. Think about the privilege you have if you grew up in a family

spk_0 where someone said, of course, you're going to college. That's privilege. If your parents took

spk_0 you to visit a campus when you were a kid and say, hey, one day you can go here. That's privilege.

spk_0 In fact, that's what my parents did. They told my sisters, you can go here to UC Berkeley. They

spk_0 told me you can go to Stanford. And because they said it, because they showed it to us,

spk_0 it suddenly felt normal and possible. And that's actually where we went.

spk_0 Now imagine the opposite. Imagine growing up in a world where according to your eyes,

spk_0 nobody really lives past 30 where you literally don't see old people around you because they're either

spk_0 bedridden or they all died. How could you possibly even think of planning for retirement

spk_0 when you don't even believe you'll make it there? This is why models matter. It's what people

spk_0 mean when they say representation matters. If you don't see it, it doesn't even feel possible.

spk_0 And here's the takeaway, especially for parents watching this show right now. If you're raising kids,

spk_0 think about the possibilities that you can open up for them. It could be college. It could be money.

spk_0 It could be anything. I remember my sister once competed in a power lifting event and she brought

spk_0 her daughter to the competition. Imagine being a young girl and seeing your mom who's a doctor,

spk_0 lifting more weight than most people can imagine. What do you think that does for a young girl's

spk_0 sense of possibility? That is the gift you can give your loved ones, your kids, your family,

spk_0 even your friends, exposing them to new models, especially you living a rich life and being

spk_0 competent with money. Let them see what's possible. You've heard me say this with money before.

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spk_0 Yes. Take me back to your childhood. Oh boy. I'll thank God I have an art tissue right here.

spk_0 Okay. Tell me. I would say that we were lower middle class. I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland.

spk_0 So basically what happened when I was like 12-ish. My parents aside, we were going to move. So my mom says,

spk_0 oh, we drive into this new development. She wants to get a house in this development. And it's

spk_0 going to have to be constructed from scratch. Of course, it's a brand new development. And so they

spk_0 had some model homes there, but they couldn't afford the model home. So they literally had to make a

spk_0 smaller version of the model. It's been a while, but they had to make like a steeper roof because it

spk_0 was like somehow like less material. All the garages were supposed to be side facing. They had to get

spk_0 a waiver to make a front facing garage. So they had to pour less concrete and that cost us less.

spk_0 What happened? So basically the house took all our money and my dad still doesn't have money to

spk_0 this moment. He still hasn't paid off the house. It's been 35 years. What did you learn from that

spk_0 as a 12-year-old? That I wish my dad could have said no. Oh. Okay. I did find out years later,

spk_0 like kind of more recently actually, that my brother and I went to private school for like first grade

spk_0 through 12th grade. And they had to take out loans to pay for it. And so like those kind of things

spk_0 frustrate me when I'm so much in student loan debt where you're like couldn't do a save some of

spk_0 that money to help me pay for my school or something. You were talking to them about that?

spk_0 I have talked to them a lot about it and it just kind of was the decision they made. They felt

spk_0 very strongly that I have a Catholic school education. It's really interesting. I spoke into

spk_0 several parents on this podcast who insist on sending their kids to private school. That was

spk_0 their rich life, I guess, sending me to a private school and I had a younger brother too. So we both

spk_0 went. But there were other things too because, well you know how much I own student loans. So a lot of

spk_0 it was my undergrad. I had also gotten a half ride to Eastern Michigan. But I didn't want to go to

spk_0 Eastern Michigan. I didn't think it was like as great. I went to Dukane. I loved it. I want to go

spk_0 there. But it was like more expensive. How did you decide not to go to the school where you

spk_0 had a half tuition paid for? In truth, I was a stupid 18 year old. I didn't understand and everyone

spk_0 around me because you know this was almost 30 years ago and nobody was talking about student loans

spk_0 at that time like we are now. So my dad was like, oh yeah, it's fine. That's cool. But then I have

spk_0 been stuck with the burden of the student loan since then. You know what I mean? It's just very

spk_0 frustrating I think. Who are you frustrated at? I think. In truth, mostly my parents, they

spk_0 spent a lot of my childhood robbing Peter to pay Paul and you know electricity would get turned

spk_0 off. Our cars would break down inside it wrote all the time. It just, it was always like we were

spk_0 in debt and never could get out of it. So you know it just, I think my dad struggled to ask for help

spk_0 as well. And so would get himself into maybe a financial situation but didn't know how to get

spk_0 himself out and would think he had to do it. What lessons did you grow up with relating to money

spk_0 that you bring to this relationship? Oh, um, that is actually a really tough one because I have done

spk_0 everything I possibly can to be different than my parents. And I still feel like I'm in the exact

spk_0 same spot of like not being able to get ahead. I mean, despite my poetry savings account, it

spk_0 certainly is more than they have my investment account or more than they have. I'm aiming for

spk_0 finding it. I'm asking you to compare yourself to your parents. I don't know. I don't think I learned

spk_0 any lessons from them. Christine, I'm not asking you to compare yourself to your parents. I'm asking

spk_0 what lessons did you observe or absorb that you are now bringing to this relationship? I think

spk_0 that you have taken their lessons and internalized them into a fear of yours and sort of like

spk_0 operate from that. I mean, that's what I kind of think. I think that you see

spk_0 what they're like the choices they made and you prescribe your own feeling to that and then you

spk_0 that's fearful for you. You operate from fear. Do you agree Christine or disagree? Oh, I agree,

spk_0 100%. Okay, that's that's kind of profound. Good point that. I always say the partner knows best.

spk_0 If you are stuck, sometimes you just ask your partner. They they know they've been watching it for

spk_0 years. Christine, how come that didn't come up when I just asked you? Well, that is what I was saying.

spk_0 I was trying to be different from my parents because I'm afraid of being like them. But you're still

spk_0 afraid today. Well, right, because we're not financially stable. Ah, so if you were financially

spk_0 stable, you would not be afraid. Is that what you're saying? That's correct. Okay, and have you

spk_0 taken specific steps to become financially stable? I've tried. Oh, that it's not been successful,

spk_0 but I have tried. How do you feel about your student loan? In different, I don't think there's

spk_0 any hope of paying get off before I die. So I just am not making a very concerted effort. You have

spk_0 $180,000. Yeah, but what am I supposed to do about that? I only make $67,000 a year. Okay, I'm not

spk_0 talking about solution. I'm talking about how do you feel about that debt? I did not understand

spk_0 the ramifications of my decision. I think people had told me I would make enough money to pay it,

spk_0 but the truth was I didn't. And I do feel indifferent because I have no interest in really making any

spk_0 effort to pay this loan. I will pay the monthly payment. I'm not going to make extra payments.

spk_0 Okay, fine. When it's never going to get paid off. And that, how do you feel about your $120,000

spk_0 loan in a word or two? A shameful and overwhelmed. Yeah, that's more common. I mean, I get that,

spk_0 but what am I supposed to do? I mean, it's been around for 25 years. It's not getting paid. So

spk_0 I'm doing my best, but I have other debt that I can actually pay off and make like a difference in

spk_0 my life. The student loan, I just, but it's something that we talked about a lot. We feel overwhelmed.

spk_0 We're not going to be able to pay it. It's a constant hindrance in our lives. It's the reason why

spk_0 we can't get ahead. That's the kind of narrative that the student loans play in our conversations.

spk_0 I love that you use the word narrative. I love that because so much of the way that we treat our

spk_0 money is purely a narrative. How old is your daughter? 14. 14. Remember when she was like four,

spk_0 three, four, it's all like making up stories. I'm flying on a unicorn and that type of thing.

spk_0 Adults are actually not much different. So much of our relationship with money is essentially

spk_0 a fairy tale. Yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying. It's not making me more interested in paying them.

spk_0 Hearing how Christine grew up with her parents racking up debt, it's no surprise that she is caught

spk_0 in the same exact cycle today. And this is the unfortunate reality for millions of Americans.

spk_0 Compound interest can work for you or it can work against you. In this case, it works against them

spk_0 ballooning into something so overwhelming. They've basically just filed it away and they try not

spk_0 to think about it. But of course, what does that do? Ignoring it only makes it worse, which is one

spk_0 reason that so many people feel crushed by their loans. The weight is so heavy that they just give up.

spk_0 They stop opening statements. They stop imagining what life could look like without that debt.

spk_0 But on this show, we don't run from what's uncomfortable. We actually go straight through the

spk_0 fire. So if you are in a similar situation, buried under loans, not even sure how to start,

spk_0 you don't have to do it alone. In my money coaching program, I show you step by step how to take

spk_0 control of your money, build a plan, and then stick with that plan so you follow through. You can

spk_0 sign up at iwt.com slash money coaching. Now listen as I push Christine and Thad to face the

spk_0 consequences of years of inaction, see if we can finally create a plan. In the next 10 years,

spk_0 of course, I anticipate that that is going to retire. And I do worry because I certainly have more

spk_0 my retirement accounts, but it's not enough to support us both. What will happen? Well, we've

spk_0 talked about moving to a lower cost area once his daughter's out of high school. She's just going

spk_0 to be a freshman and starting it in two weeks. So we've got four or five years before that could

spk_0 even be a reality. We could go back to one of our two home towns, Pittsburgh or Cleveland,

spk_0 would I think be good choices for us and have family nearby. But I think we're going to have to live

spk_0 in, you know, maybe small cramped quarters, still no car. We were lying on public transportation

spk_0 in areas where that's not as possible as it is here. I definitely don't think we're going to be able

spk_0 to take any vacations. I enjoy to get a pedicure and I used to get one just once per year on my birthday.

spk_0 And we have increased that kind of recently in an effort to have a more rich life. I think that

spk_0 those kind of things obviously couldn't be a little splurged as any more. It just is, I think we'll

spk_0 just have to live a tiny cramped life. Yeah. That what about you? If nothing changes 10 years from now?

spk_0 I have a little bit of a different view. I'm more optimistic about it. I don't think that it's going

spk_0 to be cramped. I still think that somehow we know, like we'll move to places we want to live. So

spk_0 I mean, something like the main or the Northwest, you know, like I think that like in four years when

spk_0 we are out of the high school, then I think the future opens up then. You know, we can do it when we

spk_0 want. I don't necessarily think that that's going to be a downward trend. What about the money part

spk_0 of it? I'm not afraid of not having money. Just just to put another way of looking at it. Right now,

spk_0 the two of you have a savings of $2,612 total. You have $136,000 invested. You know, if we're,

spk_0 you know, being relatively conservative, you know, maybe you take, I don't know, $6,000 a year

spk_0 withdrawal from that amount. What are you going to do is $6,000 a year? Nobody can live on that.

spk_0 You don't own a house. So your housing costs, even if you go somewhere cheaper,

spk_0 Stogen exist. Now we're talking about social security. And if you know anyone who takes social

spk_0 security, it's not a lot of money. We're talking poverty line below poverty line. I guess what I'm

spk_0 trying to get at is like, let's get really specific here. If nothing changes, the way I see it,

spk_0 there's no vacations. You are forced to move to a place that you will probably not want to move

spk_0 to because it by definition will be undesirable. You don't eat out. You're literally getting the

spk_0 cheapest on sale bread. That's what we're talking about day to day. What do you guys think of that?

spk_0 Yeah. And how should I feel about that? I think you should feel extremely terrified.

spk_0 Okay. Are you all prepared to make some big changes or do we want to make little changes?

spk_0 I personally am prepared to make very big changes. Okay. Dad? Yes. I'm prepared to make big changes.

spk_0 Love it. Let's do it. Can we have the options for a little one suit? Just, so it's just getting

spk_0 your fixed cost for a 61% which again is striking to me. A couple of things I want to highlight here.

spk_0 Your car payment slash transportation is extremely low. So what are you taking the train?

spk_0 I ride my bike. You ride your bike. Great. We use Metro and bus in other times. I love public

spk_0 transportation. If you had a car, your numbers would be over 70. Great job. Keep it up. Let's look at the

spk_0 rest of it. Phone at 170, whatever. Subscriptions at 207. No way. Drop that. I don't know. Does

spk_0 NFL Sunday ticket go? If you're asking me, the answer is yes. That should have gone in the first

spk_0 place. No, I was talking about that. I'm sorry. You're not. You were me because it actually saves us

spk_0 money by him not going out to watch the game with friends and then eating food. No, no, no, no, no.

spk_0 That's not it. Yeah. NFL is gone. A family with $339,000 of debt does not have an

spk_0 NFL subscription. I'm sorry. It's gone. Out of there. All right. Thank you. It's because we're

spk_0 still on the Zoom call, I think. We're here to learn and like find this. Let's just do this.

spk_0 You're right. Thank you. Let me put it this way. If you guys are faking it for me, good luck.

spk_0 I am not. But I'm saying like I don't think I don't know. I'm being really. Christine. Yes.

spk_0 Your need to control is showing up right now. Okay. What is the new subscription number, please?

spk_0 I mean, yeah, it's like $0. Okay. I mean, geez. It does seem like extreme, but yeah, no,

spk_0 I we can cut. We can cut. Hold on. What seems extreme to me is having $339,000 of debt and almost

spk_0 no savings at age 57. I don't think you're prepared for the type of changes you need to make.

spk_0 This is the easiest thing we're going to do on our whole call. $207. Christine. Yes. What's the

spk_0 indecision here? I don't know. I actually don't know. But it's you. Yeah, this me. It's only me.

spk_0 I think that you are surprised that that is actually participating with money, that he is actually

spk_0 moving in a direction that would produce a healthier outcome. I think you don't believe it.

spk_0 I think you think it's too good to be true. In the minute we hang up this call, it's going to go

spk_0 back to what it is. You think that by decreasing the amount you have to cut, he might actually follow

spk_0 through, but that's not how it's going to work. Either he's going to do it or he's not.

spk_0 Right. I need you to understand that. You have to be willing to ask for what you need.

spk_0 Okay. And that you also need to be willing to ask for what you need because you're 57.

spk_0 In other words, you can't both be fighting each other on this. You actually both need to be a team

spk_0 and you need to be having an upward spiral. Otherwise, you're doomed. I believe in you, Christine.

spk_0 And you can believe that I will be there. How about that? If you believe that I will put my best

spk_0 forward effort into walking with you. That's hard because so many things I've asked him to do over

spk_0 the years that they don't get done and so I don't feel like this is going to get done. It's just

spk_0 hard. I get it. I get it. There's a lot of scars. When you ask your partner and they don't do it,

spk_0 they either outright refuse. They kick the can down the road. They let a piece of paper sit on

spk_0 the counter for six months. It really causes scars. And look at this. Christine can't even believe

spk_0 that that you will cut an NFL subscription. Do you see the effects that your behavior has had on

spk_0 Christine? I do. So I don't know if the two of you are going to stick with any plan that we come

spk_0 up with. I don't know. And actually, that's not really my responsibility. I can't control your

spk_0 finances. I'm not here to be the magical savior. It's your money. You all got yourself into this

spk_0 situation. And the only people who will pull you out will be the two of you. That's it. It's really

spk_0 as simple as that. Now, you might make it. I hope you do. I'll give you as much support as I can

spk_0 on this call. And my community will rally behind you watching, seeing how you follow up all of that.

spk_0 Thank you. But you might not. And I think that's important enough to know as well. And if

spk_0 note that now is the time to listen. If you don't change, then we are also going to talk about

spk_0 what steps you might take. Because right now, this is unsustainable. It simply cannot work.

spk_0 You can hear the scars in Christine's voice, years of asking, years of him not following through.

spk_0 And this isn't just about that. Christine says, I asked him, but she didn't actually ask for

spk_0 exactly what she wanted. Everyone listening needs to hear this. That skill of asking for what you

spk_0 want is one of the most important and underdeveloped skills to living a rich life. And I say that as

spk_0 someone who's working on this very thing in my own relationship, what Christine needs is competence,

spk_0 competence around money because competence is what builds confidence. And they also probably

spk_0 need a therapist. Christine is skeptical of that. Fine. I'm skeptical too. But if we both stay

spk_0 in skepticism forever, nothing changes. We could end the call right now. And they would walk away

spk_0 with nothing changing. Instead, we're going back to the numbers to find a different way to tackle this.

spk_0 Subscriptions, what number should I put in? Zero dollars. Thank you very much. That, do you agree?

spk_0 I agree. Zero it is. Let's watch what happens. Your fixed cost dropped to 59%.

spk_0 All of that work was not a waste, but I do want to point out we spent probably 10 minutes talking

spk_0 about that one number. It dropped your fixed cost by 2%. Not much. Do you all see that?

spk_0 Yes. We need to be playing big way bigger. I think our cable bill is two. I think it's this one,

spk_0 two 35 59s. Where is that part of the utilities? Oh, you want to drop that? Okay.

spk_0 Well, it's the only other big expense that we actually we can't control our rent right now. So

spk_0 Okay, you want to drop it? Yeah, I think it goes down to 200 then if it's 436 and this is

spk_0 235. Yeah, it drops down to 200. Watch this. Utilities going down. Whoa, we're at 56%. Guys,

spk_0 this is really impressive. Okay, I'm liking it. I'm loving it actually. Can we keep moving?

spk_0 Yeah, let's go. By the way, that nice TV you have on the wall, it's going to be a beautiful

spk_0 picture frame of just black. It's perfect. Like we call it darkness. Perfect. Never turn that thing on.

spk_0 Can I just point something out? Do you realize that you have $4,000 per month to spend wherever you

spk_0 like? I sure it doesn't feel like it, but I know it doesn't feel like it. That is what the chart says.

spk_0 I want to figure out where the best place to put it. I don't want to just say I'm actually asking to

spk_0 but like whatever we think is the best and most appropriate use of the money, that's where I want

spk_0 to go. Well, I think we do have to hear budget for both of our student loan payments. Neither

spk_0 one of us is making our student loan payments right now and they're coming back in October.

spk_0 Mine's like six, seven, thirty five a month. Yeah, mine's somewhere around 500 a month. So

spk_0 twelve hundred. Let's say 1300. Yeah, we do have to budget for that. Let's say 13 and that's

spk_0 minimums. Yeah, those are minimums. Do you know the interest rate on this? I want to think it's

spk_0 like six percent. It's outrageous. Okay. You're already paying $800 a month towards debt. That's

spk_0 for what the credit cards? Yes. So I'm going to add $1,300 to the amount of debt payments,

spk_0 which is going to take you to 2092. Okay. Okay. Your fixed cost jumped up to 70%. Okay. Sometimes

spk_0 debt payments artificially inflate that number. In this case, you're going to be paying that off

spk_0 for a long time. Yeah. So we're going to look at that in a minute. Uh-huh. But let's go down. You

spk_0 that's it. Yeah. Well, and towards savings. I said that to our savings and to our retirement account.

spk_0 So how much? I don't know. I'm well on this. How much would be a good number? Uh-half. Let's put a

spk_0 thousand dollars a month towards investments and let's put a thousand dollars a month towards long

spk_0 term emergency fund. I am going to realistically, you're all are not doing this sewing and photography

spk_0 class. No, there was one time. Vacations at 175. I'm sorry to say you have no vacations. Well,

spk_0 it's not vacations that was our savings. Like it will only up one savings the count is what it is.

spk_0 But it's literally labeled vacations. I mean, I have the idea of going on a Viking cruise. I really

spk_0 want to go very badly, but you know, it's not in our budget right now and that feels frustrating.

spk_0 I'm not going to be hard on you guys, but look, look at this. You guys cannot afford to take vacations.

spk_0 That's it. And we don't take vacations. It's not really for vacations. That's when you

spk_0 it's just our savings. Yeah. So you can zero that number out. It's for anything we need for our

spk_0 house in an emergency. No, so it's emergency fund. Stop. We don't put money in a vacation fund. That

spk_0 is not really for vacations. You're not respecting money when you put money for one thing, but you

spk_0 deep down you know you're going to tap into it when you need it. That is not how we respect money.

spk_0 We need to fill up an emergency fund and we need to be honest with each other. We are not taking

spk_0 a vacation in the near term. That's it. So there is no vacation fund. There is no vacation savings.

spk_0 None of it. It doesn't exist because it's not going to happen. Part of living a rich life is

spk_0 you need to be honest with yourself and honest with the people you love. Right now you're not doing

spk_0 either. That have you talked about college for your daughter other than like as throughout life,

spk_0 but no. I mean at this point like you know how she planning to pay for it. I would be paid for

spk_0 you know I mean like low and or something like that. I don't know. We haven't talked about it.

spk_0 I mean she's talking about it right now that you cannot afford to pay for your daughter.

spk_0 Okay. It's as simple as that. There is there's no possible way. That's it. That's really hard

spk_0 for parents to hear. You know my parents didn't pay for my college. They told us point blank.

spk_0 Like of course you're going to college. We expect that, but we don't have money for you.

spk_0 So you're going to have to find a way. You're going to get scholarships, etc.

spk_0 And we did. Sometimes some of my siblings took out loans. I'm not saying that everybody can do it.

spk_0 What I am saying is that my parents were very honest with us. And it actually didn't make us feel bad.

spk_0 We're just like, oh okay. That's what we knew. They laughed. We don't have any money. What do you

spk_0 think you're for telling me? This is the kind of honesty that I want with money. When I say

spk_0 you've got to be honest with the people we love and with ourselves, this is what I mean.

spk_0 Are we good to continue on with the numbers? Yes. First of all, these numbers have dramatically

spk_0 shifted. Your fixed costs have gone up. They've gone up from roughly 60% to 70%. That is

spk_0 primarily because you're paying a lot more towards debt. Okay. And we also did drop a little bit of

spk_0 the subscriptions and cable. So you actually blunted that number going up. Good job. I think that's

spk_0 really good. Your investments are at 10%. They are actually a little bit higher than that if we

spk_0 count all the pre-tax investments because that is making some pre-tax 403B. So it's at least 10%

spk_0 probably like 15% something like that. Your savings are at 12%. We have all of the money.

spk_0 $1,175 being directed towards a long-term emergency fund. It's going to take you

spk_0 six months to get one month of an emergency fund. So it's a little slower than I would like,

spk_0 but we're at least we're going in the right direction. And then guilt-free spending you have

spk_0 $735 left over total per month, 8%. Now normally I would say 8% is pretty low. You know,

spk_0 typically I like to see that number 20 to 35%. The fact is you have to start living on way less.

spk_0 Way less. 8% is fine. If I were being aggressive about it, I would do it on 3% to 5%. But I don't

spk_0 think right now you have the capabilities to do that. It's hard to go from 40% down to 8%. So I want

spk_0 to be realistic. How does it strike you so far? For me, I like it. I'm paying the bills, the

spk_0 soon loans. I think that makes me feel good. I feel more complete that way. So I like seeing the

spk_0 plant and letting it out in front of us. Okay. Christine. I mean, the numbers are stark, but I think

spk_0 it's going the right direction for sure. I'm on board with it. Where are we going to end up?

spk_0 That's what we need to know. Is it enough? I want to plug these into my investment calculator.

spk_0 You can just search, repeat calculators and you'll find a series of calculators. We'll use the

spk_0 investment one. So you are starting off with $136,000. You're going to invest $1,000 a month

spk_0 plus that's amount. So let's make it 1,500 just for easy math. How about that? Is that fair enough?

spk_0 Are we approximately 500 bucks a month pre-tax? Yes. How many years will you keep investing

spk_0 that you're 57? So why don't we say eight years just to see? Just the numbers.

spk_0 All right. So if we include both your investments, all together, you two will have $430,000.

spk_0 But you didn't include my contributions to that if that's our joint. Do you have more pre-tax

spk_0 that you're contributing? Wait, 401k, $200 a month. Okay. No, 230. I'm sorry, 230.

spk_0 All right. So you're going to $460,000. Okay. And let's take a look at what that means. You will

spk_0 be able to safely withdraw $18,000 per year for retirement. That is not enough.

spk_0 No. We would clearly be living in a cardboard box next to the ditch on the side of the road.

spk_0 Just saying I'm happy, I guess. I can please me. No, we wouldn't. We wouldn't even build for it

spk_0 anything. Yeah. What are your options? I mean, I can personally increase my investments,

spk_0 but I'll also be working longer. I probably have 20 years left of working. Okay. So I've got

spk_0 longer to invest than he does. I like what you're going with time. Time is one of your number one

spk_0 variables. Fad, I don't think you're going to retire at 65. I don't think so either. Shall we take a

spk_0 look at the numbers then? If we calculate this for not just eight years, but let's make it 13 years.

spk_0 Suddenly you have $776,000. You could withdraw $31,000 per year. I mean, it's still not a lot,

spk_0 but certainly more than it was. Yes. It's going in the right direction. Let's not forget

spk_0 social security. Again, not a lot, but at this point, we actually need to factor that in.

spk_0 And I'll still be working seven years past that. So yes, you will.

spk_0 You know, I'm hoping to get a hairpane either position at my company or a different job that

spk_0 pays more. Could you make that happen for sure? No, I will not at my company. I'd have to leave my

spk_0 company to get a higher bane job right now. Could you do it? Yeah, I could do it. Sure. If there's

spk_0 one available, I live in Washington, D.C. where basically all the federal employees just got laid

spk_0 off. So job markets a little stiff, but I'll have my eyes out looking. It is one of the most important

spk_0 things you can do is for you to increase your job salary. And so I know that it's very,

spk_0 very difficult right now in the federal government. But when it comes to where you are putting your

spk_0 energy, putting it towards finding a higher paying job will be one of the most important things you

spk_0 can do. Okay. That what about you? What about your income? I can increase my income considerably

spk_0 by getting the next five years or so like that. I don't care about five years. I care about five

spk_0 months at this stage. We don't have five years. And five, oh, in five months? Oh, no. How can you do it?

spk_0 Not know. How can you do it? You have to get a new job in five months. I don't know. That's one

spk_0 way to go. No. What else? Oh, I might say what saving now is I'm doing? Yeah. You do have

spk_0 things. You need more money. You need more income. How? In addition to working more than I could

spk_0 I could pick up more work. I mean, I can see that I could get more jobs. I mean, like the next

spk_0 semester, well, so when school starts, I do math. That's like extra $550 on the math coach for

spk_0 the team. Really? Yeah. $550 per what? Oh, no. That's like a once time thing. Yeah. So I do,

spk_0 like I do like the tradings and like the extra income stuff for teachers throughout the year.

spk_0 I need more than that. You need more than that. Not me. You need right tutoring.

spk_0 Tutoring. It's kind of hard. Life is hard. Having $339,000 of debt is hard. And being poor when

spk_0 your older is really hard. Yeah. No, but I said tutoring somebody else's kid. I'm going to tutor

spk_0 my own kid at a time. So I, you know, and that's a choice I'm going to have to make because she's

spk_0 struggling. I need to make sure you like I have energy. I understand you make that energy. But

spk_0 hard. I don't know the, I don't know what that word means when you have this much debt and you're

spk_0 going to retire in abject poverty. Right. Yeah. I guess we're speaking different languages.

spk_0 I don't know how much what job I could pick up now and how I can increase. Like

spk_0 salary in six months. If you had a gun to your head, could you do it? Uh,

spk_0 you know, wow. That's quite a telling response. Like who's going to give me a job? I mean,

spk_0 what am I going to do? That's, that's, I find this extremely fascinating. If somebody told me

spk_0 remit, you have no business, everything shut down and gun to the head, could you find a way to earn

spk_0 more money? I didn't even tell you how much money. I just said more. I'm planning to be,

spk_0 I don't need six months. Give me five days. Get out of my way. I'm done with this conversation.

spk_0 Come back to me on Friday. I'll find a way. What, what is the difference?

spk_0 And there is no difference. Why do I say it that way and you don't? You're asking me to get

spk_0 another revenue income stream, which is fine. Right. And I'm willing to do that in any manner

spk_0 that I can do. What that would look like and what that is. I don't know. Like a evening job,

spk_0 like to work it like subway after school, right? What I was saying before, there is that work

spk_0 life balance, right? As far as like if my daughter is, I'm taking care of her as well. I have to

spk_0 be part of her life as well. If I say I work until I come home at six and I take an evening

spk_0 job and I work over night, like how much work in this one job should I get, right? And be content

spk_0 with and say, Hey, I'm content. This is a stable pattern for the next 13 years, right? And being

spk_0 able to meet the obligations, I'm willing to do that. I just making sure that the priorities are

spk_0 there. If that's pushing back, I don't mean to push back, but you know, I'm just,

spk_0 well, I think right now you have $31,000 a year in retirement. Right. And that's if the two of you

spk_0 combine your income. Right. I don't personally really mind if it's subway or waidering or tutoring

spk_0 or a second, it doesn't matter to me. It's actually not my life where the money is going to

spk_0 affect it. It's yours. And that is why when you are asking me, what kind of job am I talking about?

spk_0 It's actually what you're trying to do unconsciously, although you don't realize it is you're trying

spk_0 to delegate the problem back to me. You're tossing me the ball and I'm actually tossing it right back

spk_0 to you. I don't know if you want to work at subway, you want to work at the mall. If you want a

spk_0 tutor, it's up to you because you and the two of you will be the ones who experience the after

spk_0 effects of your decisions right now. When school starts, we can pick up the weekend tutors.

spk_0 Uh-huh. Yeah. If there are some at your school, I'd prefer that because honestly, you know,

spk_0 I don't want to be at home with a 14 year old by myself like all evening. Sorry, man, not doing it.

spk_0 So the parenting is a tough job and it takes like all the dedication and ultimately she isn't my

spk_0 child. So like a lot of the decision making isn't mine. So if I'm the only one here all the time,

spk_0 it doesn't work that well. I'm sorry, but if you're in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt,

spk_0 you don't get to ponder the finer points of work life balance. I am genuinely mystified right now.

spk_0 All I can think about is all the immigrant parents I know who came to America and did whatever it took

spk_0 to be able to become financially stable. I remember recently I was in Atlanta doing the live event.

spk_0 My lift driver picked me up and he looked back. He goes, Ramiit's safety. He knew who I was. He

spk_0 recognized me. He was an economist in Ethiopia and he now drives a lift while listening to podcasts

spk_0 to learn how finance works in America. He was an economist. Now he drives a lift. I think about

spk_0 the Indian parents who work at a gas station or the Chinese family who runs a restaurant with their

spk_0 kids seven days a week. And if you asked them about work life balance, they would say, what?

spk_0 That's the world I grew up in. Our work ethic was insane because it had to be. That was the only

spk_0 way we could do it. Now I love balance. Life is different now, but it would only be possible

spk_0 because of what I learned from my parents and all the other people surrounding us as kids.

spk_0 I appreciate balance, but my definition of hard work is completely different. If you told me

spk_0 right now, Ramiit, you're going to die in poverty unless you make more money this week. My answer

spk_0 would be very simple. Get out of my way. I'm going to figure it out right now. Talking about

spk_0 work life balance when the stakes are this high, that doesn't have that urgency. And I don't think

spk_0 he truly understands the situation he's in. What's scarier is even if he did understand it,

spk_0 that doesn't mean he would be successful in changing. But in order to even have a shot at being

spk_0 successful, you have to recognize the severity of your situation. You have to be honest.

spk_0 The next difficult subject that we're going to tackle is something I have been waiting for a long time

spk_0 for hours to unpack with them. It's one of the major cracks in their financial foundation. Do you

spk_0 know what I'm referring to? Let's take a look. Look at the difference in income and look at the way

spk_0 that you have split your fixed costs. What do you notice? We just had a conversation about this,

spk_0 not too long ago, about like just tell me what you notice. It's not balanced. Exactly. It's equal

spk_0 like irrespecting equal, but they're not making the same amount of money. You make a lot more at that

spk_0 and you are paying 50% which is great for you, but very onerous and difficult for Christine.

spk_0 So you all talked about it. What was your conclusion? Well, we didn't. We just kind of noticed

spk_0 that as I say, since that disparity is kind of new with this year, now that we are a little bit

spk_0 of that, it had been lopsided before the other way, I think. You guys make decisions when you talk

spk_0 about money. We don't. You don't even make them right now. When you're faced with poverty in

spk_0 old age, you're still not me. You're just talking around it. The question is, what do you notice

spk_0 about how your expenses are related to how much your income is, which that answered, I appreciate it.

spk_0 And then he said, well, we had a conversation about this. We've been talking about this. Okay,

spk_0 what did you decide? Nothing. Yeah. Couples who are successful with money make

spk_0 decisions and they make them fast. Couples who are unsuccessful with money talk about it over

spk_0 and over and over again and they never make decisions. Which one are you? Well, clearly we're the

spk_0 latter, but like I don't feel like I have the power to drive this decision because I'm the one

spk_0 that makes the least amount of money. Oh, the person who makes less money has less power. Who said

spk_0 that? Or is that just a story? That's what that said because he used to make less than me and he

spk_0 refused to do a percentage split out of expenses. So now that we have disparate incomes the other

spk_0 direction, I surely can't ask for percentage breakouts. Why not? Why can't you? Because he refused

spk_0 to do it. So now like it doesn't feel fair. Let me make sure I understand this. That refused to

spk_0 do percentage-based breakouts when he was making less. Yes. Even though that would have been

spk_0 advantageous to him. And you have said, surely I cannot bring up proportional payments. Why?

spk_0 I said, hey, I noticed that I make a lot of this monthly venue and I'm still paying half of the

spk_0 everything. And he said, oh yeah, I noticed that too. That's not bringing it up. What is that?

spk_0 Hey, everybody, I noticed the sky is blue today. Yeah. That doesn't mean that I feel like eating soup

spk_0 that has nothing to do with it. When you bring it up, what do you want? Christine, I can tell that

spk_0 you often have trouble asking specifically for what you want. Right? I didn't think so, but I guess

spk_0 that might be true. What do you want when you bring that up? Why are you bringing it up?

spk_0 Well, because I noticed it was a reason that my credit cards can't get paid down faster because I

spk_0 don't have- it doesn't fully got the access money every month, every pay even. Yeah, that's correct.

spk_0 You're right. Your instinct is exactly right. This is not fair. You're not even married.

spk_0 I know. But that's more than the reason it should be half and half. We're not married. We have to

spk_0 shoulder the burdens of our own stuff. There is an argument to be made for the fact that you are

spk_0 not married. So there are certain differences that you might have. Whereas when you are married,

spk_0 at least in my opinion, you should combine as much as possible. But can I just say Christine,

spk_0 it is not fair or feasible to have one person with 78% fixed costs and the other person with 50%.

spk_0 But you still haven't asked that for what you want. Well, but I can't ask him for what I want.

spk_0 It's not my money. When I married my wife, my lifestyle was much more expensive than hers.

spk_0 Okay. Had a bigger apartment, spent more on food and that kind of thing.

spk_0 Right. If I had 50-50 with her, it would have financially drowned her. It wouldn't have been

spk_0 fair to her. That, I hope you're listening very carefully because you are me in this situation.

spk_0 Yeah, but I don't think it's fair. I did not wait for her to cry. Well, we're not married.

spk_0 The marriage part is irrelevant to this. I don't think it is.

spk_0 Okay, tell me. You believe Christine that because you're not married, you should have to pay 50-50?

spk_0 Yes. That's what we've agreed to. So like, I don't see how we change that because like, I can't say,

spk_0 well, it's not my money, but give it to me so I can pay my bills.

spk_0 Paying proportionally does not mean that he gives you money. That's not how it works.

spk_0 Christine, what I notice again is I'm trying to really, I'm actually trying to help you,

spk_0 Christine financially, and you are pushing back inexplicably. I don't think you even know why you're

spk_0 pushing back. I'm trying to help you right now. I know you are. And I appreciate that, but it's not

spk_0 my money to ask for. So I'm not going to. You're not asking for anybody to give you money.

spk_0 That is not going to write you a check. Well, then he would put more into the house with a count

spk_0 so that we would have more of my pay our bills. Yes. And you would put less because you earn less.

spk_0 Like, I pay a lot more taxes than you. I make a lot more. So I can afford to do that. Do you see that?

spk_0 I do. What do you think about that? I don't know what I think because in when this

spk_0 intuition was reversed, he said, no, and so it doesn't feel alike now that this intuition is the

spk_0 way it is now that I can ask. I've never flatly refused to say that. I wasn't going to do that.

spk_0 We brought this up. I didn't say I wasn't going to deportional that. I wasn't even asked.

spk_0 I just don't like being characterized as like on a responsive, refusing to do it.

spk_0 Like not sharing the money. Like every dollar I have goes to this household except for the money

spk_0 that I would waste it. And I messed up to that. I'm willing to do it now. Yeah. But I mean,

spk_0 I'm not the bag guy here. Christine, what do you take from that? I guess he's willing to split it

spk_0 proportionally. But I didn't in fairness. Honey, I never said that you wouldn't. I just didn't

spk_0 ask because you didn't do it when the situation was reversed. Well, yeah. No, that's yeah.

spk_0 I'm not refusing to do anything. Like I'm 100% supportive of you as much as I can with everything.

spk_0 Do you realize that that is offering to do this and you're refusing to take the help which would?

spk_0 I didn't refuse to take the help. I said it sounds like he'll do it. So. Christine, I understand that.

spk_0 But Christine, I want you to understand your own behavior right now. There have been several

spk_0 occasions where that has not pushed back. He's like, take the NFL. I don't care. You refused at first.

spk_0 Right. You're being drowned financially. It's not fair. And you never ask for it because of

spk_0 a story you created. Now he hears it. He goes, yeah, fine. Are you willing to take the help?

spk_0 No. Okay. Love it. Great. This is what making decisions is about. This is hard. But this is also

spk_0 what I meant by we have to walk through the fire. We have to do this stuff. There's no other way around

spk_0 it. Look at what happens when I change the numbers in the CSP. Christine's going to pay 40%. That is

spk_0 going to pay 60%. And you're going to see these numbers dramatically change. Take a look. Let's see

spk_0 here. 1290 for your portion of the rent. That's down from 1600 bucks. Right. What does that mean to

spk_0 you, Christine? That I might have more money to pay my credit cards. Exactly. You're going to have

spk_0 more money. That's proportionality. Look at these numbers starting to adjust already. In your fixed

spk_0 costs, each of your individual costs are becoming a lot more rational. Christine is your fixed cost,

spk_0 which used to be what? 78%. Yeah. They're down to 64%. What does that mean for you? I think it just

spk_0 feels that there's more money available. It was feeling really pinched. Yeah. Because the lifestyle

spk_0 the two of you have is unsustainable. That I want to check in with you. This means you're going to be

spk_0 paying a lot more. I mean, one of the money to pay for my daughter's stuff and give me 40 bucks

spk_0 of paycheck so I can have fun. That's all I'm going to do. I don't need any money for anything else.

spk_0 I don't do anything else. I don't have any other activities that I do that cost money.

spk_0 That's awesome. I'll take the win. And I think we can make proportionality work. What I actually

spk_0 want to hear and what I think Christine wants to hear is a deeper level of engagement.

spk_0 So this idea of like, whatever, as long as I have a bill, that's actually not the level that I

spk_0 need you to be operating out with your money. You actually need to understand, oh my god,

spk_0 this now means I'm going to be paying X $100 extra a month towards fixed costs,

spk_0 which means I'm not going to be able to have this much for guilt free spending, etc. That is

spk_0 the level of fluency that you need to have with your money at age 57 with almost nothing in retirement.

spk_0 That's where I just did though, right? Is that what we just did? No, that's not what you did.

spk_0 Okay. I did promise to talk about what would happen if things don't change. Because this is a lot

spk_0 of changes. Like a lot of things have to go right in order for this to work. Right. So what if it doesn't?

spk_0 I mean, clearly, I think we'd have to, when we already probably do have to move somewhere that's

spk_0 less expensive, a lot less expensive. Dad, what if you get laid off? And no, come on, you know,

spk_0 get another job as a teacher. Okay. Let's say that you can't get another job that pays what

spk_0 you're making. You only get, you know, two thirds of what you're making. I cost and try to survive.

spk_0 I mean, like, I mean, worst case scenario is homeless shelter, right? I mean, that's probably the

spk_0 worst case scenario. Have you been in a homeless shelter before? I have. Okay. You never talked about

spk_0 worst case. Did you? No. We talked about moving back and breaking it. And like, you have to move

spk_0 back to Cleveland. Then we can meet Pittsburgh. Yeah. I mean, we have discussed it just like kind of

spk_0 impassing, but, you know, of course, you hope it doesn't come true for whiffed. But, um, sure,

spk_0 I think that's just kind of what would happen. I would have to move back over with my dad and my

spk_0 brother. I mean, I've already been laid off a number of times and have consistently gotten jobs

spk_0 with lower pay. So I mean, we've made it, but it was tough. What about if we end this call and

spk_0 things look good for a week, you make some changes and then

spk_0 Fad you stop following up. Things kind of go back. Christine is chasing after you. You're avoiding

spk_0 what would you do then? I don't know what I would do. I think I would just keep pressing forward with

spk_0 doing what I could with my own finances, trying to increase my retirement account, trying to find

spk_0 some extra money for savings. Um, you're gonna just do the best I could. Fad, what would you do? If

spk_0 you weren't making progress on the things we talked about, Christine felt like she was trying to

spk_0 control you by asking every day, what would you do? If we weren't gonna make it, if we weren't

spk_0 making it together, if we decided that we weren't gonna be able to move forward with the shared

spk_0 dream, you know, we've talked about like breaking it up. You two are not married. You have

spk_0 different financial situations, although both are extremely concerning. And if I am each of you,

spk_0 I am saying, look, this is what I need in this relationship, financially speaking, in order to

spk_0 be comfortable, in order to be comfortable to stay, in order to be comfortable to be married.

spk_0 And it's cut and dry. It's decisive. If both of you really dedicated yourself to earning more,

spk_0 and I think it's extremely possible, not only could you save money, not only could you

spk_0 invest for retirement, I think you could make a pretty serious dent in your debt, but it would

spk_0 require extreme focus and it would require doing it as a team. So that becomes the overriding goal,

spk_0 less about work life balance, just being very honest. And every additional dollar that you make,

spk_0 you would have a plan for how much goes into it. In part, because I don't want you to end up

spk_0 in poverty in your old age. If you can do all of those things and you can both do it together,

spk_0 I think you have a pretty good shot. I feel nervous, really nervous because I know that you have

spk_0 a lot of changes to make and I know what your future could hold. Trust me, I want the absolute best

spk_0 for you. My dream for you is that the two of you actually do this as a team that you both see.

spk_0 We have a lot of changes to make with our money. We are going to do this as a mission.

spk_0 We're going to get our daughter involved. We are going to talk about this and this is actually

spk_0 going to become something that is fun. Yes, it's going to be hard. Yet, we have no cable anymore.

spk_0 That sucks. But we are doing this as a family unit and I am not sure if you two want that.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I do want that. Of course, I want to have financial stability. That's been

spk_0 my goal the whole time. Then I just am not sure. Just sure we're going to get there.

spk_0 I feel nervous about being able to remain committed to the things I've talked about that.

spk_0 I struggle with being honest. If I'm not 100% in, then no matter what's not going to work.

spk_0 I mean, I kind of know that. It's really hard. I have to come that I can conclude. I have to

spk_0 change that mentality. Do I want to walk this journey with my partner and end up in no

spk_0 age where we can live together? It's going to work. Then I'm willing to put that in.

spk_0 It's going to be hard though. But I'm willing to put that effort in.

spk_0 We're going to get to their follow-ups in just a second. But first, I'd like to share a couple

spk_0 of thoughts. Here's what I suspect will happen. I think Christine and Thad will be motivated for

spk_0 a couple of weeks. I think they'll cut the NFL spending and they'll make some small easy changes.

spk_0 But I suspect when it comes to the harder stuff, like redirecting guilt-free spending and

spk_0 consistently saving and investing, that's where most people find it much harder.

spk_0 It's easy to nibble at the edges. You can open up an account, transfer 50 bucks. But the moment

spk_0 that something gets hard, a lot of people find it easy for the entire thing to derail.

spk_0 Now, I hope I'm wrong. My real dream is that they follow up next week and next month,

spk_0 and they surprise all of us. They make massive changes. They build huge momentum. They realize they

spk_0 can actually go faster and they get into this upward spiral with higher paying jobs and attacking

spk_0 their debt. It's possible. I've seen it happen and I would love if it happened here. Now,

spk_0 let's take a look at their follow-ups. So it's been three weeks since we talked to Remy and I just

spk_0 wanted to check in and let you know how that and I are doing. I would say that one of the biggest

spk_0 changes I've seen is that that is more engaged with our finances and is taking on a lot of

spk_0 responsibility for improving his own financial situation, which has gone a long way. I think

spk_0 toward relieving some of this stress from me and also for making it seem like we're more

spk_0 equal partners in the finance conversation rather than me leading the way. 100% of the time.

spk_0 So we've been able to increase our emergency savings account by deferting money from cancelled

spk_0 subscriptions and adding 90% of any extra money we earn from jobs or bonuses or things like that

spk_0 to the account. Also, we have agreed to restart our money talks soon. So I think probably

spk_0 next weekend we'll have our first conversation in the new post-remeat world. So I'm looking forward

spk_0 to that and continuing our work through this financial journey together. So thank you, Remy. I

spk_0 appreciate all your help and it's looking up for us. So yay! My biggest takeaway from our interview

spk_0 with Remy is just how critical my retirement situation is in regards to lack of money that I've

spk_0 saved for that. I think the Remy turned it as a crisis situation because I'm inclined to believe

spk_0 him. I have changed my mentality and I realized that I have to go with intentionality moving forward

spk_0 saving for retirement saving for the future. Some of the action steps that we've taken since then

spk_0 or I've taken since then is that I have up my retirement funds in for a paycheck. I have

spk_0 created a savings fund for taxes and for house emergencies and I've increased the amount of savings

spk_0 I put into our house. Also in investigating my situation I was able to find a retirement fund

spk_0 from a previous job, my previous job of $45,000 so that added to what I currently have. So that's

spk_0 been a benefit. We've caught about $80 of subscriptions, about five subscriptions and that's been a

spk_0 proactive move and to this date we have not yet subscribed to the NFL package and then just going

spk_0 forward for C9 or having conversations that are positive. It's been a great experience and I

spk_0 want to continue. If you enjoyed this episode here's one of my personal favorites that you should

spk_0 check out next. Thanks for watching. You know travel is one of my top money dials or the area of life

spk_0 that I love to spend money on. Over the last few years some very memorable trips we've taken

spk_0 Italy. We took a design tour in Japan, Safari and Kenya and Tanzania. If travel is one of your

spk_0 money dials to I want to tell you about a podcast that I love. It's called All the Hacks and it teaches

spk_0 you the hacks, tips and tactics you need to upgrade your life, money and travel all while spending

spk_0 less and saving more. All the Hacks is an award-winning podcast trusted by more than a million listeners

spk_0 that turns big ideas into quick tactical moves you can start using today.

spk_0 The host is my friend Chris Hutchins, a financial optimizer who has sold two companies and racked

spk_0 up millions of rewards points. I call him sometimes when I have a really tricky question about travel

spk_0 or points, he knows the answer. A great place to start is with the episode where Chris shares his

spk_0 top 50 ways to upgrade your life, money and travel. I actually joined Chris recently on the show

spk_0 to share how to actually spend your money in a way that creates joy whether you're earning 40k

spk_0 or 400k. We talked about the four numbers you need to know why lifestyle creep is a myth and how to

spk_0 find your worry-free number including how to start living your rich life now. You can check it out

spk_0 it's episode 237 how to design a rich life at any income. On Chris's podcast every episode delivers

spk_0 at least one tactic you can plug right into your own life could be a money hack that increases your

spk_0 net worth or routine that boosts your productivity. Search for all the hacks that's all the hacks in

spk_0 your podcast app hit follow and start upgrading your life today.

229. “I’m almost 50 and have nothing to show for my life”

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