Health
Why Can't They Just Get Over It
In this episode of 'Why Can't They Just Get Over It', we explore how unresolved trauma from the past can impact present relationships. By understanding the emotional triggers and reacti...
Why Can't They Just Get Over It
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It's a Friday night and Mia and James are sitting in the car after dinner. The silence between
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them feels heavier than the air outside. James finally blirts out, why can't you just let it go?
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I forgot to text. I didn't mean anything by it. Mia stares out the window, her arms crossed
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tight against her chest. What James can't see is that his small forgetfulness scraped against
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an old scar. As a kid, Mia often felt invisible. Her birthday forgotten, her needs overlooked,
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her feelings brushed aside. When James doesn't follow through, her body reacts as though she's
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right back in that childhood living room alone, unimportant, bracing herself, her heart races,
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her throat, heightens, and the anger comes up hot. Mia tried to explain herself. It just really
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hurts and it seems like you don't care. James is aware of Mia's history, but he's a pretty
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attentive partner. He feels like he's always trying to make up for the shortcomings of her
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parents, so he decides to let her know. I am not your parents. I love you and I forgot to text you,
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and that's all it was. James thinks he's dealing with tonight. Mia's body thinks it's dealing with
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years of not being seen. And this is what trauma does in our relationships. It makes the present
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feel like the past. It hijacks the nervous system and it pushes partners into protection mode,
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whether that looks like anger, withdrawal, or suspicion. And the most frustrating part,
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you can't just reason your way out of it. Trauma doesn't respond to logic or just get over it.
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It responds to safety, to being understood, to someone saying, it makes sense that it hurts.
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I want to stay with you. So when we ask, well, why can't my partner just get over it? The real
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question is, are we willing to be curious about the scar underneath the reaction?
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Wow. The trauma therapist and Mia is so proud of that interest.
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I'm nervous though. I was like, I'm making some bold claims here and so we're going to see
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how this lands with Lauren. I'm impressed. Yeah. I think you hit on so many of the themes that I
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want to talk about as we get into this topic today about how trauma or some of the past wounds
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that our nervous systems hold really can show up in our relationships. And it can be a really,
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really tricky thing between us in a relationship to understand, why do I see my partner reacting
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in this way that's seemingly unreasonable or disproportionate to what I see happened here,
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or irrational in some way. And we can get so stuck in this like, okay, I'm sorry. Like,
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it wasn't that big of a deal. Let's move on. But I think you did such a good job naming.
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There's so many activating things happening. Like I loved when you were describing like my throat
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tightens and I'm feeling sensation in my chest and my body and my mind is racing. And it's like
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my partner thinks we're talking about something that's just here and now. But I maybe all of a
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sudden feel like a five year old who just felt really let down or neglected. Yeah. I think I just
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want to commend the James in this scenario because he was really kind. And while he doesn't quite
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understand it because it's not happening to him, right? It's not happening in his body. He does have
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some awareness of what has happened to Mia. And so he's able to somewhat hold some understanding
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for her. Yeah. I like that you're naming that that like there's still a kindness there. But there's
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also a frustration and like I think it's important for people to recognize. Like you can be kind
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of doing both at the same time or feeling both at the same time. Like he's not saying just get over
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it. You know, obviously there's levels to dismissiveness. And so you might be the partner that you're
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like I'm kind, I'm attentive. Like I get it to some degree. And it's still landing a certain way
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for your partner. Yeah. And I will say as a couples therapist who often works with couples who
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have their own histories of trauma and honestly often on both sides of the relationship, it can go
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way faster than this. The cycle can come in so quick. And you know, it also sounds like Mia has
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some awareness of her own trauma history and doesn't maybe think it's just this time in the moment,
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right? She's like, well, yeah, this is reminding me of this that have happened before. But what I'll
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see in my office is just this complete unawareness of what this is connected back to. And so in these
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present moments where James forgets to text, it actually does feel that big and intense. And there's
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like a lack of understanding even about, you know, why this feels so big for me. I just know it does.
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Yeah, I would say I see the same thing, especially working with couples, but even if I just have one
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of the partners sitting in my office, you know, maybe venting or trying to regulate through like,
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oh, my partner didn't show up for me in this way or they hit this wound, you know, and generally
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the mind is just focused on like my partners a bad guy in this moment, you know, like my partner did
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something hurtful. If they really cared about me, they wouldn't do this. And it actually is really
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challenging, I think, for people to go a few layers deeper and look at like this isn't just about
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what my partner did. It's actually like touching this narrative or this belief that goes way,
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way back to a younger experience. Yeah, I think that's often something that we have to discover
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through therapy and just wanted to show our listeners that it can look very different for all
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kinds of relationships. And while we're talking today about an intimate relationship, I'm sure we'll
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touch to on even friends that have intense reactions on our parents, whom I react in big ways.
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And just having some clarity around maybe the why that this happens this way. Yeah. The last thing I
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just wanted to highlight from that intro story culture is I think you did lay it out in a really
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generous organized way where, you know, Mia is bringing some of this awareness and James is able
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to acknowledge like, I know that this is in your history and I'm not your parents. But there is
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this real thing that can happen even if we have done some of that work to have the awareness
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where there's the frustration that you name can still be there at the end. And I hear a lot of people
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ask this question in my office, like, how do I find that line between like it feels like I'm just
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enabling this like my partner just wants me to never trigger them, but I'm human too. And I can't
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always avoid hitting their triggers. I'm not intentionally trying to do it. Or maybe, you know,
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the trauma that's sitting with the partner is preventing them from being as close to me as I'm
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desiring. And so there's this frustration of like, I can understand it and I can care, but also
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it can't just stay this way. Like this is not working relationally. Yeah. And how human of that partner
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who wants this connection and can see that this, you know, trauma history, this intensity is a
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block for that. And it is frustrating, but that is frustrating because it's out of your control too,
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which is the other hard part, right? I mean, that's some of it is, you know, related to how much
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safety you can bring to the relationship. But also, I know we're going to talk about this, but
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really like a long process. Yeah. So I mean, we're already kind of discussing some of the examples
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of like how trauma can impact our relationships, but I want to even just start with like two categories
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that we really will see. And then I'll define trauma in a moment. So everybody knows explicitly
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what we're talking about. But when there is something that's like really unresolved from our past,
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that can still get activated in our body. So that increased sensitivity could result in more of a
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reactivity where we see somebody getting big and kind of going into like a fight mode, like pushing back
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to get away from that feeling. So maybe I'm defending or I'm shifting the blame to you.
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I'm thinking of that increased sensitivity is something that maybe feels kind of like disproportionate
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to you that it's as the other partner. It is like, okay, like this thing happened and it
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seemed like a really big deal to you. Like this feels like a three out of 10 to me, but you're
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reacting like an eight out of 10. That's kind of what that increased sensitivity looks like.
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Yeah. I also think that it feels like if I'm on the other side of it, it feels like you're fighting me.
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Like you're coming at me. And now I'm getting really defensive. Like why are you putting all this
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blame on? Like why are you coming at me with this like fight energy? When really for the other
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person, they're fighting against like, I don't want this feeling to get touched. Okay. So just to make
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this part clear, if the reaction feels like it's dialed up and it's really intense compared to
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what the action or inaction was, that could be an indicator that somebody is responding from like a
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fight response. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I call it like a when we think of like our fighter flight
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impulse, it's like a fight impulse. And what happens when that gets activated for us is we really
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shift out of the ability to stay socially engaged. You know, like to stay in connection that feels
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really like safe and curious and caring. We have to have enough sense of safety that it's like,
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oh, wait, that didn't make sense. Let's get curious about that. Let me take another pass at that.
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Let me ask you another question. And when a really intense feeling gets hit, it can put our brain
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into this like self preservation mode where it's like, I no longer care about the connection here.
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And again, this is where it's like, it looks like I'm fighting you because really I'm trying to
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defend against something internally that's coming up. Yeah, because you activated a trauma trigger.
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And so now my body is sort of, I was used as like metaphor of like these like sunglasses flip on
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the eyes. And now I'm like seeing you as the Trump initial trauma. And I don't see you as my partner
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anymore. I see you as this thing that really hurt me and scared me. Yeah. Okay. So increased sensitivity
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sounds like there's other ways that this can impact or show up in our relationships.
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Yeah. Well, I said there's kind of two general paths. And when we have that increased sensitivity,
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one path is that reactivity that we'll see. So it's like the fight mode. But the other thing that we
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can see is just in general, like a lower capacity to engage in vulnerability. So I'm thinking about
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we didn't episode not too long ago about the fear of intimacy. And I think this is also where
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trauma can come into play where you know, my partner might want just like more emotional depth
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and closeness. Like I want to know how you're feeling. I want to know how something impacted you.
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I want you to be able to hold space for my really deep feelings. And something that can happen
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with trauma is it's like these feelings are too intense. So I actually can't hold space for them.
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I can't tolerate my noriars. Okay. So a low capacity for vulnerability. And you're we're kind of
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talking around a little bit like I'm wondering if we could get to some sort of like example of like
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what does that look like for me to be sitting in front of my partner and you know and recognize that
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they're having a low capacity for vulnerability. Like how is that going to be shown? Can we use Mia and James
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as like the example for we do whatever we want. Okay, but cool. Like there was something that stood out to
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you from their. Well, I just wonder like if let's say Jane or Mia, since she's the one that was
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experiencing the history of trauma, if she was in a low capacity and James gave her feedback about
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maybe like what that was like to get this reaction from her for the text message,
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what would like a low capacity response look like for me? Because she seemed to be pretty
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regulated and like able to communicate. I mean, I think it can be on either side of the spectrum.
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I think it could be like a withdrawn shutdown answer just like, okay, like whatever.
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Yeah, the thing I think that my mind thinks about is lower capacity is like I just want to keep
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things surface level. You know, like I want to talk about the weather. I want to talk about sports.
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I want to talk about where we're going for dinner. But as soon as you start asking or poking at
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something that feels more emotionally charged, I don't want to go there. Okay, so let's maybe like
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because of the way the vignette was set up, Mia probably is on that like if anything if she was
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maybe not as regulated, she might have been in more of that fight mode of like, why don't you
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have her text me back? Yeah. What's wrong with you? Don't you know the rules of relationships or
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something like that? And if James maybe was in a lower capacity place, his response would look
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sort of more like flippant. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you want
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for me. Yeah, this is not a big deal. Why do you always have to make things such a big deal?
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Yeah, I think that's actually as you're saying that Kayla and like the way that the story was
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brought across made me feel like Mia probably actually is going to go more of the reactive route
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because she protested that she didn't like how this felt. Right? You didn't text me and I felt
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something and I want to not feel that. So I'm bringing that to you. And then maybe James on the
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other side, if he had his own like low capacity for deep emotion, would maybe just blame that?
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Like, well, why are you always so reactive? Like, this is not a big deal. If he would just not
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make a big deal out of it. If you would just not have feelings that get activated, then I wouldn't
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have to connect with hard feelings. So it's like, let's just not. Yeah.
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The vibe. Yeah, that just makes me think of so many couples that I work with and how it can
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just be such a big miss because we don't have enough context to understand the why behind the
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big reaction or the why behind the more just like passive response that's connected to something
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deeper. Yeah. I'd like for us to take a detour to what is trauma because sometimes I think people
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can start to listen to these conversations. And the word trauma just feels like such a broad brush
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stroke. Just like everything is trauma or like my partner doesn't have trauma. Like,
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their parents were fine. Like, you know, they're just boomers. So, you know, they didn't know as much
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as we do now. And so let's get a little bit of a working definition here. Okay. So trauma
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is defined as anything that overwhelms our capacity to cope. And the way I even kind of break that
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down is like, if I have an intense feeling that starts coming up. So let's say it's a feeling of
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fear or a feeling of disappointment, like intense loss. Like, I really wanted something and I didn't
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have access to that or maybe helplessness. Like, I want to be able to protect myself here. I want
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to be able to have a boundary here. But I don't have any options to do that. And so I'm feeling really
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helpless and maybe really scared. Like, there's a big feeling that comes up and our feelings are meant
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to point us to a need, right? So maybe the need is safety or the need is some agency in control or
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the need is comfort and support. And so when we have an experience that overwhelms our capacity to
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cope, we have this really intense emotion that comes up and we're not able to get the need met
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that goes with it. And so the way that our brain then has to cope with that is by being like, well,
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let's just like put that really intense feeling. Like, let's just hit freeze and put that in a box
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and put that box in a closet and lock the closet higher guards to stand outside of it. And as long
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as nothing, pokes at that feeling, and I don't have to like remember it outside of the moment where
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it happened, then I can just kind of keep functioning with my other day-to-day tasks. Like, I can still,
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you know, once the moment has passed where maybe somebody was, you know, when we think about trauma,
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it's like it could be something really overt where people think like, oh, somebody was physically
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hitting me or violating my physical body in some way. Or I watched something really tragic,
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like the death of one of my witness to something. Yeah, maybe I'm even witnessing our overhearing
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violence in my home. There's some of these things that are like more obvious, I think, that people
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are able to recognize like that was clear trauma. But there's also things that we don't necessarily
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recognize. It's like there was a need almost like instead of a bad thing that happened, it's like
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there was a good thing that didn't happen. Or like there was like a resource or support that didn't
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happen in this moment. And it's like once the moment has passed, then our body's like, okay, great,
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like we're out of that moment. And even though the need didn't get met, I can just kind of like
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brush my teeth and go to bed and go to school tomorrow. But then the brain has to work really hard
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to make sure nothing like reminds us of what that feeling is because anytime we get reminded of it,
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it comes back up with the same intensity and reminds us that we can't cope with it. And that's
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really overwhelming. I imagine there might be people listening here that are having a hard time
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differentiating like cycles that couples get into and then cycles that are activated by trauma.
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And like, you know, is it, and like maybe even this like internal debate, like culture was
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highlighting of like, is it really trauma? Like, you know, and just kind of like, come on,
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like, is it really that bad? Yeah, my partners weren't able to meet my needs, but they didn't
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know any better. And so like, you know, like, oh, well, like, right? So how, I guess I'm wondering
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like how we can help those people navigate those thoughts that might be coming up or like that
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confusion about what makes it trauma and is it really that bad? Yeah, it feels like a complex
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question. And I think it's one that I hear come up time and time again. I mean, in my trauma groups,
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in my individual office, you know, where people are like, is this trauma? Is this my personality?
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Is this neurodivergence? Is this, you know, there's so many different factors that contribute to it.
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But I think that the thing I generally want to help people look at is, am I getting pushed
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outside of my window of tolerance or, you know, a more layman's way to say that is like, am I losing
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control of how I'm acting? You know, like, because really when something overwhelms my capacity to
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cope or I like, go outside of my ability to tolerate emotion, the front part of our brain that
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is in charge of thinking and strategizing and choosing something that's maybe aligned with our
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values, it literally goes offline. And so we go into full blown like, you know, instinct, survival,
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only mode, where now I'm just reacting. And the ways that I'm reacting often are not cute
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in relationships. And they can be harmful. They can be incredibly frustrating if we're like,
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just disengaging or shutting down. And so it's like, if you're losing control and you're having
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a really hard time like getting back into connection with like, what is happening? There's a good
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chance that it could be trauma or something, trauma adjacent that you need help figuring out how,
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how do I look at this and stay in my window while I'm looking at it?
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And I think it's also like being aware of maybe your tendency to judge other people's experience
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and how their mind and body reacted to a situation that they were in as a young person. And just
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because maybe that didn't impact you in the same way, that doesn't mean that it doesn't impact
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another person in a really strong, harmful way. And I think that's the piece that we really just have
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to take a look at is that it's so unique to each individual person. And if two people are in the
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same exact scenario, one person's body might interpret that scenario as traumatic and another person
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wouldn't. And that's not for us to decide if it should or shouldn't be classified as trauma.
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Totally. Yeah. And the last thing I'll say on this definition of trauma is that, you know, I can't
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tell you how many people, whether it's people who have like listened to a previous podcast episode
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or we've talked about trauma and then they reach out to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I
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listened to that. And I actually didn't realize how much trauma I do have in my life or in my trauma
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101 group when I'm giving the definition of trauma and people are like, I was actually confused
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why my therapist referred me to this group because I didn't have any like big overt traumas. But now
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hearing the definition of, you know, being a child who needed comfort or education about something
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or guidance and like didn't get that, I'm recognizing how that impacts me. So I want to move us into,
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you know, where are some of the places that trauma comes from? How can we start to explore that?
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And we're back. So as we've been talking a little bit about what trauma is,
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you know, when we're starting to explore like where does this come from, some of the obvious
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places we're looking at in childhood are going to be our family of origin, like what was going
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on in our family dynamics. But even outside of family, you know, looking at our peers, some of
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the extracurricular communities we might be part of having, you know, coaches, sports, dance,
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gymnastics, church, culture, groups, you know, things like that, yeah, school, sports.
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Yep. So there's a lot of places that we want to be able to kind of look back to to think about
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like where did this intense feeling originate from. Yeah. And I think like the thing that's coming
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up for me is like maybe the person who's listening and is like, okay, yeah, Lauren, that happened,
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but it happened in the past. So like shouldn't matter anymore. Now I'm James and I'm safe. And like,
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I'm, I've proven to you that I'm a good partner. So like why is it still happening?
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Well, and I even think before we get into that, like let's talk about what are some of the other
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variations of that that we hear because I cannot tell you how many times I've heard that exact
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statement of like, well, I'm not, I mean, you even said it culture in the, yeah, like I'm not your
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parents. Right. Right. Like why are you reacting to me? Like I am when you know that I'm not.
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If you really trusted me, if you knew that I'm safe, then you should be able to not be triggered
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here. I like the one that says like, well, my love should be enough to fix it. Should he, my love
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should heal you. So condescending as you're saying, my love should be enough. So how you talk to
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your couples, do you hear yourself right now? No. It's valid to wish that. But that's a myth.
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Yeah. That sounds like a hallmark movie to me. Yeah. Yeah. No shade. But
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well, it's probably why people think that because they watch film movies and they're like, you know,
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totally. Yeah. And that Christmas Carol story. Yeah. Yeah. Just fell in love and they were fine.
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Canvas cameras love healed him. So DJ Tanner reference full house.
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And I was oh my gosh. Throw back. I think another one like if they really cared about me, you know,
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they would heal this. They would just talk to me more about it or they would just be more open
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and more vulnerable. They would run to therapy. I was going to say or they would go to therapy.
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Right. If they really cared about me, then they would go work on their own stuff. Yeah. Yep.
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I didn't feel that one in my own body. Right. Like that one feels that one feels true.
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Like if they really loved me and cared about me, they would go they would go work on this.
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They can see that it's impacting our relationships. So why, you know, right? I can just
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feel that with with maybe the listener who feels that way. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that
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I'm thinking is, you know, kind of reshaping the goal of like when that response happens, like our
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goal is kind of like to make it through this moment. Like we're here now. I don't think we can
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prevent the moment ever coming up again. You're saying like the moment of like being triggered or
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yeah, being triggered or like the conversation James and Mia have like it's that's going to happen
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again. You know, even if they have a really beautiful repair, they go see Kayla and Lauren for
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a couple's intensive, like it's going to happen again. And I'm not trying to say that, you know,
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all hope is lost or something, but reframing the goal of like this is going to happen again. And
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we have to be able to access tools to make it through. That's what doesn't blow up into something
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bigger. Yeah. I have a number of thoughts that I want to like dig into on that. I think before I
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lose it, the the the last thing that I was thinking of that sometimes I see partners do is like
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almost have this story about their partner who has trauma where it's like, well, this is just how
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they are. Like they're just always reactive to this. And because that's just how they are, it's like
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I don't even try to engage or understand. It's like, oh, they're acting up again. Like I just
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got to ride this out and wait for them to stop acting crazy. Yeah. I've definitely seen that one
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in my my office, my life, right? Like I think that's a relevant one is like, oh, they're just this like,
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you know, Yeller. And this is what they do. That's what I hear a lot in my offices. Like this is
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just what they do. And you're right. And there's just sort of like making this character judgment
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about the person versus seeing it maybe as this is how they're reacting to trauma.
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Mm-hmm. Yeah. And usually, I mean, you had said this earlier, Kayla, where it's like oftentimes both
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partners have some trauma that's being hit in different ways. So usually the partner who's like,
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well, that's just how they are. I'm not going to like engage with it or get curious about it or,
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you know, look for it to change. Like usually that's a partner who's like avoiding some of the vulnerable
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more emotionally charged things. It's like, oh, I can actually avoid that by just being like, well,
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I'm just going to wait it out and wait till we're back to status quo. So, Kult, I think going back to
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where you were just saying, you know, if there's trauma play, like this is going to happen again,
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right? Like we could have a repair conversation. I'm so sorry that I didn't text you and that that
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triggered your trauma. I'm so sorry. Gosh, my brain's not thinking of like, what are all the ways
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that trauma can get triggered? You know, I think about when somebody has felt really not prioritized
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or not important as a kid where it's like, you didn't celebrate my birthday. You didn't get me
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flowers for Valentine's Day. You didn't tell me that I looked nice. I wanted to do something
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together and you prioritized work or plans with your friends instead of the thing that I wanted to do
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when there's been maybe like a history of betrayal in somebody's life. Like even if the partner
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has never betrayed them directly, there could be this like chronic suspicion or mistrust or
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vigilance around like, well, where are you and where are you going and what are you doing and
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are you sure that you're not hurting me or blindsiding me in some way? Yeah. Yeah.
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I'm also thinking about like the partner who's so desperate for affection or vulnerability
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from their partner and they just keep like keep asking for like, I need you to talk to me in this
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way. I need you to say these types of things to me to make me feel special. I need you to flirt with me
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and the other partner really wants to do those things even but like, can't, right? It keeps finding
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themselves unable to meet these needs and it's this like this. Maybe that's part of the more shut down
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lower capacity side. One of the things that I'm thinking of is just like how big of a whole
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we dig ourselves in when we make our partner quote unquote prove to us that it hurts or prove to us
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that there's trauma. I think I know what you mean by that but can you kind of give an example
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of what you're saying? Yeah. I'm just saying, you know, we're kind of discussing a little bit like how
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like quote unquote believe your partner that this is actually how it feels for them. And I don't know
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if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here because it almost feels like I would be telling
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the partner like you just kind of believe him. You know, like I'm kind of doing the like just
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get over it. Like they can't get over so you just have to believe them and that's not necessarily
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what I'm trying to say because you're having your own experience as well and there's room for
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the emotional experience that you're having there. But like if you are with a partner who has been
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betrayed in the past and you have been nothing but the most loyal partner. If you make them fight
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for why they feel the way that they do, I just think you're just going to dig yourself into a really
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bad spot versus kind of accepting that I have become attached with this person who has this trauma
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and it is something I'm going to care for for the duration of that this relationship.
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You're reminding me of something that Hillary McBride describes which is shooting the second
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arrow. She says that usually when we're talking to ourselves about something hard that we're
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experiencing, but essentially what you're describing culture is like this person has a trauma
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response to something in the relationship that's hitting something from the past. And then that's
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the first arrow that already feels painful that already is a shot with an arrow. That's already a shot
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right in the heart or in the gut. And then my partner says to me like gosh like why can't you just
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get over it right? And so now I have the second arrow of shame or you know helplessness or just like
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fear right that maybe this person's now going to leave me because my trauma is here right? So
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I think in a way what you're saying is we've got to learn to stop shooting the second arrow.
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Yeah that's a good way to put it. Yeah and you know this is where some of the complexity
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about relationship comes in. I heard you you know being generous with this culture where it's like
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there has to be room that you're also going to have an emotional experience when your partner has
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a trauma trigger and they react like that's going to impact you likely as well like it doesn't feel
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good to feel mistrusted or it doesn't feel good to feel like your partner thinks you're a bad
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partner because their trigger got hit. Yeah they didn't text back. Yeah and so that you know there's
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work on that side too like can I regulate what comes up for me when my partner has this reaction
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that of course feels really bad for me and in the relationship. And so I think on the side of like
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if I'm the partner you know seeing my my person has just gotten really triggered can I regulate
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what happens for me can I stay safe can I stay curious can I be like hey I see that something's
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getting touched here and I want to understand more about this and there is still space I think
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this goes back to Kayla where you said like this one feels true like there is still space to be like
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and this impacts me and it impacts our connection and it's not about saying like okay we're just
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going to for the rest of our lives have to like walk on egg shells around this trigger like there
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is actually real healing that can take place around trauma and so that's where we want to
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understand that we can get there. Okay so Lauren I love that you mentioned you know that there is
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a path to healing and you know to validate my concern earlier which is like yeah it does actually
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feel really bad to be that partner who just feels like they have to be in limbo forever and today
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we're not going to really focus on what the plan is and how to heal trauma but more so something
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to anchor to as far as clarity for why it does feel this big why it does feel this distressing
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and so if you could just kind of help maybe land at that point of why can't they just get over it.
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Yeah I love that you're framing the question that way because the reality is that we tend to
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think this is an issue between the two of us if you just believed that I'm safe if you just
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believe that I love you you should not be this triggered and what's really happening when there's
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trauma that's unhealed in the body is there's internally an emotion that feels too intense to tolerate
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you know and I mean I think think about like physical pain if somebody was like okay we're
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going to have this conversation and I'm going to stab you with a really sharp deep needle like
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that's going to be fine right it's like oh like can I tolerate that okay what if it's not a needle
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what if it's a knife you know like there's something really intense that the body is like I cannot
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handle or tolerate feeling this and so the reason they can't just get over it the reason that when
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this trigger comes up it still looks this raw and this big every time is because there's an
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internal feeling that we don't presently have the capacity to to regulate through.
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Okay so I suspect our listeners maybe could take that in and believe that emotional pain and
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trauma does impact the mind and body as intensely as physical pain does and that there is something
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real happening here and then I also suspect they're wondering okay so then what am I supposed to do
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like if this is happening in my relationship you know what am I supposed to do as the partner on the
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end of the traumatized relationship. Yeah and the short answer is you know if we can start to
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recognize that my partner has some trauma that's getting hit how can I be really really safe and
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gentle and curious around that instead of getting triggered I probably will get triggered by whatever
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their reaction is but instead of like going into my own reactivity can I try to regulate and
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remind myself like okay this is about their trauma like this it can I stay curious can I stay
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connected instead of going into my own self preservation. So I'm inquiring to this is about their
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trauma and I'm trying to stay out of personalizing this is about me. Yep this is something this is my
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fault this is something I didn't even judging them making a story about them. Yeah and I mean I just
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want to name this is really hard to do right just last night I was in one of my boundaries groups and
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we were role-playing and the role play was literally just like share about what it's like to be you
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to like bring up something that feels hard in conversation and the thing that everybody was
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reflecting on in the group is like oh we all came in thinking like there's a certain script that
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we're supposed to use to like do this communication well but there's actually no script that's going
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to prevent me from feeling triggered when you don't respond perfectly and so it's looking at like
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so much of this work is how do I know I'm going to be triggered when my partner shuts down or blows up
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and how do I regulate like oh don't personalize that pause don't react take a breath like stay
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curious stay with them instead of immediately going into my own self defense. Okay so why don't the
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two of you give us a couple role play examples so our listeners can maybe see what this looks like
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okay I think the first one let's do what it generally looks like without this awareness and without
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you know the conversation probably goes yeah how it usually goes exactly yeah okay so let's set up
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a context of culture and I are going to role play and in this scenario culture let's have you be
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the partner with some unresolved trauma and I'm gonna say something to you that I think is just
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part of like our normal day-to-day conversation connection it's gonna trigger you and then we'll
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see how that plays out so round one I'm not gonna be therapeutic or using skills I'm just gonna
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or save while you're crazy okay okay okay great okay so let's say that you just got home I've
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been home for the day you just came in the door hey how was your day oh it's good how about you um
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I mean it was okay it was just really really busy and I noticed that I was feeling a little
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bit extra stressed and frustrated because I had asked you to make sure that you cleaned up the kitchen
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before you left this morning and you didn't get to it and so it just like added some extra stress
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onto my day yeah I this morning was just crazy and I like I just had to get out the door okay well
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I'm just wondering if in the future like is there a better way that I could ask about this or how
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like when I need you to help me with something it kind of feels like you just don't if it's not
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convenient for you honestly I just like I don't really know what you want like I feel like
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you have like such a standard for what you want the kitchen to be like and it is it's just like
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so high that I just can't like ever get to that I mean it don't understand you saying you don't
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know what I want like I pretty explicitly say I will I feel like what you want is something that like
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I just like can't do like I don't think I don't know how anyone would ever do this so when I ask
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then you just are gonna avoid it altogether and never do it feels like I just like I know that
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like whatever even if I put the effort in like I'll go away about the counters and like
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put some dishes ways like I know the dishwasher right I didn't like clean the counters right
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because apparently there's like a right way to clean the counters well there's like a yeah there's
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like a normal way to clean counters I guess exactly and I'm not normal right okay so how it is
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you apparently yeah I can't ask my own partner to help clean up like an adult then I don't
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really understand how we're supposed to function yeah yeah it's gotta be so hard being married to
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such a juvenile idiot it is actually so I'm okay I'm not on the same page here okay how are you
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feeling I hate her yeah I actually expected you to be way more dysregulated with me like I think I
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was expecting in the beginning for you to come out you like oh he's like I could have dialed it up
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I mean you like presented it fairly softly you know you weren't just like you know
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the that's fair yeah and I think I did that because sometimes it's like it can be something soft I
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guess that comes across that can still hit a trigger where I'm like whoa like I have no idea that
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it was gonna hit that well I think that's a better way for us to present it to people because
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if you just said like like hey dumbass why didn't you clean up the kitchen like people are
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going to be like well yeah she's coming at him yeah she's coming at him like of course he's
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gonna respond that way or you know the recognition like yeah like I you know if I'm snappy with
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my partner I get why I get that reaction so it's a little bit more of the like I just kind of
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kindly asked you to do something and now yeah and look where Lauren and I got to I think I you know
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I liked that it didn't start off that way it was like you know it was a quick ramp up to there but
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there were still a few steps yeah yeah right well and I think you know what I noticed right away from
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you culture in response to Lauren it it Lauren's request or curiosity was deflection right so I'm
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immediately saying well you know I don't know your standards might be too high there's something
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kind of along those lines of like well can anybody even really do that and Lauren's then kind of
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bring some passive aggression and as she does you know what are you just gonna avoid it then right
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and then it can start you know and this is what cycles typically will look like they'll start kind
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of like a little sneaky and then they can get ramp up ramp up ramp up until we're now named
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calling back and forth I'm just an idiot right I'm not normal no you're not right and it can get
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more intense yeah and to your point Lauren sometimes it can start off that way right it can just
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jump into intensity so it they actually definitely can build this way yeah yeah all right we got to
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give this another pass we got to say you know what's maybe a more effective way to have this
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conversation let's take a quick break so Lauren and I can both regulate ourselves and then we will
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come back and show everybody a more effective way to have this conversation
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okay so in this next pass with the same scenario cold air is still gonna get triggered
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and respond in a triggered way but I am going to try to stay more curious and see if I can bring
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us to a more productive place instead of getting triggered and reacting based on your reaction
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okay okay okay so you just got home he called her how's your day it was good how about you um
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it was okay it was it was like pretty stressful to be honest and I just had wanted to bring
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up with you I know that I had asked you before you left this morning to clean up the kitchen and
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you didn't get to that before you left and so it just kind of added to my plate today and I was
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curious why you didn't get to that yeah I just the morning like was crazy and so I just I just
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got out of the house I didn't get to it okay um I guess I'm just finding myself wondering because
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it's like I I feel like it's often that it happens that I don't I don't know if I can trust if
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you're gonna be able to follow through on something that I ask so I guess I just want to understand
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more like was it something particular about like how stressful this morning was I just I guess I
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don't even really know like what you want with this because it like it feels like you have such a
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high standard for what the kitchen is supposed to look like and like I clearly can't do it and so
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like even if I try it's like I've done it the wrong way but the dish way wrong like a clean up the
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there's like a something coming up for you that like if you do try to do it I'm gonna end up
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saying it wasn't good enough like that it was what you do is like that I first of all I'm like
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exhausted from the day and it's like I yeah come home and I have to like dive in and do stuff and
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it's like I still don't do it enough so it's like I know that you're just gonna be frustrated and
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you're just gonna redo it so it's like kind of a waste of my time so you end up just giving up
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because it doesn't want to feel like I'm gonna end up in this position where I can't do it well
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enough and yeah it just feels like easier to not yeah okay I hear that and I know that I do have
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you know some particularities about like the ways that I like things done so like I can understand
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why that's getting hit for you I guess I'm just I'm wondering because I know that we've we've
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talked about in the past that that's been like a theme that's come up for you before around feeling
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like if I can't do something good enough like if I think the expectations are too high I just like
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start to shut down and it's not like I just want to make sure that I'm understanding like that's
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what's happening yeah I I don't know if like that's the language I would have put too up but that
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does kind of feel feel like what it is like the expectation is too high and I'm just like not
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going to meet it so yeah yeah okay yeah I mean I guess like I do want us to be able to like
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workshop this a little bit so that you know I know how I can bring something to you and have
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that trust there but I also understand that like it makes sense that if this is getting hit for you
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that like well why would I even try if it's not going to be enough anyway like I can understand why
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that would feel frustrating and so maybe this is something we need to like come back to outside of
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this thing around the kitchen and just kind of process more like what happens in our dynamic here
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okay let's let's stop and just kind of name what maybe feels different about this round
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so I think the things that I saw is you know learn you approached it pretty much in the same way
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initially and cultures still gave you that same response initially and when what I like to call
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like dodging the bullets is what I saw you doing right so he's still coming at you with like some
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like blame shifting or deflection and like you know I just think your standards are too high and he's
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dodging that bullet and you introduce curiosity right then you're dodging another bullet and
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you're still trying to get some more clarity then you're dodging another bullet he's still throwing
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them yeah and then you're owning right how your standards might be different than his and validating
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the impact of how he's receiving these requests and the thing I wanted to bring some curiosity just
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for my listeners that I noticed at the end was what I would call it's like it's not the time
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to negotiate this it's not the time for us to come up with a plan here and for you to express your
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needs and I'm curious if we could highlight that and just can you state why why did you choose like
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that kind of approach of like right now is not the time to problem solve this well I don't know
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that we like made it super explicit in the role play that like there's a trauma trigger here you
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know and sometimes with our partners like we we might know and we might not know but the thing
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that I was hearing him say was like there's something coming up for me this message that like I'm
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not good enough I cannot get it right and so when I recognize like oh that's coming up and there's
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some kind of like big emotion tied to that where we're not able to get into problem solving I wanted
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to be able to create enough safety to just like I see that and I believe that and I believe that
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there's something I did that's hitting that and so if I try to go right into problem solving it
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it's like we're probably not going to be able to get there because this is too charged
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of a thing like my goal right now is to actually just create some safety for us to be able to
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name this thing without it getting overwhelming yeah and I think just to validate being on that
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side of this dynamic that would mean that I have to then let go of my agenda my need to have
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you know the kitchen clean and prioritize what's happening with my partner because
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there is some vulnerability that's coming across the table and that that's going to be really hard
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it is really hard and I mean transparently I felt myself over here like okay don't go into therapist
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mode like I'm so aware of that and I hear my clients say that too you know like Lauren I come to
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therapy and I learn all this therapist language and then I try to go and be safe for my partner but
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they end up feeling like I'm just trying to therapist them you know and so there is something
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rail about like how do I slow this down enough where I'm not like well where do you think that came
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from in your child and where do you know like I didn't ask that I'm just trying to understand like
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okay what did I do that hit this what's the story that's coming up okay how does that make sense
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like I believe you trying to just really slow it down and keep it there for a little bit
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I am wanting to defend the fake story in my head of like a listener hearing this and just
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thinking like this guy just sounds like a jerk and like now it's her job to take care of all of
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this like she made a pretty reasonable request and he's just like you know Kayla said like she's
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dodging bullets over here it's like why is it her job to dodge bullets you know and that's exactly
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what will come into my office is like well that puts me in this caretaking position and that
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doesn't feel fair right and I think the reality when we have a partner with trauma is that there's
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going to be some moments that don't feel fair yes because it's not the same experience
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Lauren's talking about the dishes and cultures having this experience of being a young guy who was
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shamed because he couldn't get anything right ever right whether that was in sports or at his
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home or what have you and so that's it's not the same in that moment yeah right it's two different
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experiences actually and so yeah it won't feel fair and that is a part where I guess like I know
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we won't have enough time probably to go into this today but maybe on a future episode like that
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is something that you're going to then have to start to discern within yourself of like can I be
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patient here can I put some of my needs for the dishes and the clubliness of the house aside
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given that my partner is having this kind of experience or and or what do we do how long do we
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wait like I'm sure those are some of the things that probably come up at the end of this yeah yeah
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well and you said like if you have a partner with trauma and I'm gonna almost go as far to say like
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you probably do like you know no one's making it out of childhood unscathed or out of this place
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without some wounds and some scars and so could that be disproportionate you know of course it
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probably is but like to I think we're going to have to take turns yeah doing this like we could do
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another example where I bring up something totally different you know maybe in you know maybe I
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I tell Lauren like hey like you know as you're trying to clean up the kitchen and that's no big deal
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for her again I write it didn't get to it but maybe there's just something else that I bring up
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that hits on her trigger and I'm like I don't understand why this is triggering you well the last
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thing I want to add to this is you know we can get stuck in this like well it's not fair that I
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have to do that but what if your partner has never seen that done like if they've never seen it done
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yeah somebody to dodge bullets and stay curious and not get reactive chances are they don't know
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how to do it for you and so if you could be the one to like I'm in a model this I'm gonna be safe for
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you I'm gonna show you how it's done that actually is gonna increase your chances that they'll be
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able to learn how to do this for you yeah in other moments it and I would say also decrease the
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chances of it coming to the same intensity the next time yeah okay so I as you both know could talk
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about trauma all day all week forever but I'm gonna wrap us up here hoping that the takeaways for
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our listeners from this episode really can be about understanding if I see a disproportionate reaction
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from my partner or something that it's like this just keeps coming up and it feels so unreasonable
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or maybe I'm the one that that's happening for can I bring some understanding to believing like
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there is a reason internally in the nervous system that this keeps happening if there is some
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unprocessed unresolved trauma maybe around a narrative that like I'm not safe I'm not in control
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I'm not lovable I'm not good enough like those things can get activated and really impact our
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relationships being able to bring more safety by not reacting to the reaction is a really really
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good first step in trying to slow this down and even just exploring like what kind of bandwidth
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do we have here to to work on this and change the cycle but a lot of that self regulation to stay
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curious and then also just knowing that therapy is a really helpful option you know trauma can be
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healed can be processed through that might be a request that we really want to bring to our partner
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like hey I see this happening for you I see it impacting me is this something that you'd be
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willing to get some additional support for yeah and on that note I would say you know if you're
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needing help having your partner see this a couple's intensive can be a really great place to
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get some support for outlining what's happening in the relationship and Lauren and I are both
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trained to help couples navigate relational trauma and so we'd love to have you come in and do
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some of that work in real time with us thanks for listening
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thanks so much for tuning into today's episode if you enjoyed it we love it if you could leave
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us review on iTunes or Spotify or even send it to a friend as always all the links will be in the
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show notes where you can find any additional information on our website at idodcast.com and while
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you're there if you haven't checked out our free 14 day couple challenge we really hope you do it's
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a free email challenge that we send to you with fun easy doable challenges to help strengthen and
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improve your relationships and if you're looking for a little bit more help in your relationship whether
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it's improving intimacy or communication with your partner or just bringing the spark back we'd
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love for you to check out our online course spark my relationship we offer a hundred dollars
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off to all of our listeners that you go to sparkmyrelationship.com slash unlock there are over 15
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psychologists and therapists who have collaborated to create this course include all of the real
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love tools and tricks that they are teaching to their clients on a weekly basis and as a therapist I
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will tell you that this is how about all of therapy begins learning new tools and techniques and so
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this course is a really great supplement or booster to couples there so that sparkmyrelationship.com
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slash unlock we'll see you at the next episode and have a great day
Topics Covered
relationship connection
strengthening relationships
communication tools
trauma in relationships
emotional intimacy
mindful awareness
couples therapy
overcoming past wounds
reactivity in relationships
vulnerability in intimacy
Spark My Relationship course
relationship improvement strategies
understanding partner's trauma
healthy communication
couples counseling