Health
The Wildlife Health Team—Crucial to Conservation
In this episode of Amazing Wildlife, hosts Rick Schwartz and Marco Wentz dive into the vital role of the Wildlife Health Team at the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance. Joined by Hendrik Hendrik-Nallins,...
The Wildlife Health Team—Crucial to Conservation
Health •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
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Buenos dias, world.
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I'm Marco Wentz.
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And this is Amazing Wildlife.
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The podcast where we explore unique stories of wildlife from around the world and uncovered
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fascinating animal facts.
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This podcast is in production with I Heart Radio's Ruby Studio and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance,
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and International Nonprofit Conservation Organization, which oversees the San Diego Zoo and the San
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Diego Zoo Safari Park, which is kind of where we sort of are right now.
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I just love that courtyard, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, right man.
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It's good to be back by the way.
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It's good to have you back.
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Thank you, me.
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Last episode, we covered California condors.
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I knew it was really, really good, but it just lacked something and it was lacking you,
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buddy.
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I appreciate that, I appreciate that.
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I heard it sounded really, really great.
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Yeah.
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You know, I learned a little bit extra that I didn't know about condors, Sue, which is wonderful.
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And actually, I spent some time in Mexico and saw the Chipotle Pazoo, which was great.
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How was it?
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Oh, it was wonderful.
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I saw their new oxalato habitat.
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I'm very impressive and Spanish, but you know, it made me think of it.
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I let us watch.
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I mean, the Mexican food too.
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You can't beat that Mexican food at a Mexico.
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It's just really called food by the way, but it's great.
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It's just food down there.
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It's just food down there.
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It's just food.
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No, but hey, we're getting distracted.
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But you know, what I was thinking was all the great work that specialists do from
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different species like the condor episode that we talked about, right?
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We've both been in the organization for a while.
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We know the story, but to really hear the numbers, you know, she was saying that there
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was 250 have been hatched over that now.
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Right.
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But the one that was number 250 is going to be released soon.
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And goodness, there's over 500 in the population, half of that flying free in a while.
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Yep.
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So the whole idea of the work that was done with just the initial 22 that were brought
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in and all the efforts for making sure we're doing right by the partnerships, right,
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by breeding and then reintroductions in the wild is so cool.
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Yeah, no, and I know a lot of our guests are familiar with that project.
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But sometimes I think that most of our guests don't really realize all the behind the scenes
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work, the science space work that's being done here at the Safari Park.
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For instance, we're at the beautiful Beckman Center.
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Yeah.
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The public's not aware.
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You know, it's an 1800 acre conservation park.
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Guests can access a good portion of this conservation area.
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But this particular section is super unique.
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A lot of really important work is being done, right?
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Well, and I appreciate your bringing that up because it's what this episode is about.
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I was just trying to give you the segue, right?
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Well, wow.
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Is that what that was?
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So our members already know because they got the same as wild life,
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a land general in the mail.
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There's an article about all the conservation work done by wild life health.
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Yes.
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In other words, sometimes when animals go out to the wild,
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they still need some support from our wild life health staff.
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Or sometimes the conservation act itself is wild life health.
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Right.
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So we thought it'd be fun to maybe talk to the guy who knows a lot about this stuff.
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I think it's a good idea, friend.
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So our guest, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us your title.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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My name is Hendrik Hendrik-Nallins and I am the VP of the Vice President of Wildlife Health
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for the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance.
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So I lead those teams that you're talking about.
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And I'm really glad that you're actually telling that part of the story too,
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you know, that overlook part a lot of times.
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And the health support that goes into these programs
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or that's needed for these programs or for the species recovery.
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So really cool you're doing that.
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So the VP of Wildlife Health tells me that it's a pretty important department
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that you have to have somebody at your level
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overseeing all the work that's being done.
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So, yeah, he's like, where do I begin?
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I'm not going to make you name everybody on the team.
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No, I don't know about important necessarily,
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but it's definitely a big department and a very core department.
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So the waterfield teams consists of the animal hospital at the zoo,
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the animal hospital at the park,
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but then also our pathology team, disease investigations, epidemiology,
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toxicology, our diagnostic labs.
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We have in-house labs that perform diagnostic tests on these animals
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that are not available elsewhere,
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because the species we take care of are not dog cats horses.
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Right, yeah.
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And then also the entire nutrition science and the food supply chain,
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getting all the animals fed.
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Which makes sense, right?
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Because it's health.
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Everything, everything about it.
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From nutrition to disease prevention, I think you were saying as well, right?
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I mean, there were some issues in the past.
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I remember California,
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that was part of the article.
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It's still part of the article, right?
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So clearly, it's a very large umbrella from nutrition to disease
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to testing for things, everything else.
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But the article did mention that we participated
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or were part of creating a bird flu vaccine.
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So the condors in the wild could receive an inoculation.
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What was your departments, hand in all that?
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Yeah, yeah.
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So very close.
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This was really a precedent-setting project, the or initiative.
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It was not led by us, but we were one of the key contributors.
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And so even influenza has been circulating in North America
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for the last three, four years has been causing damage at population level
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and species level in South America and elsewhere in the world.
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And also some years ago now, the California Condor Publications,
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which you mentioned earlier, is on the track to recovery
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because of our and other people's efforts.
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But they got hit by even influenza.
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And at some point in time, over the course of a couple of months,
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over 20 California Condors were lost to even influenza.
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Which if you look at it, it's fortunately at scale
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that effectively meant that it set the conservation breeding program
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back by 10 years.
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Oh my gosh.
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Accomplishments, 10 years worth of accomplishments
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that were just lost due to the virus.
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And so there is no vaccine available in the United States
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against the even influenza.
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Yeah.
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For reasons that I have to do with poultry trade,
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international poultry trade,
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multibillion dollar industry, it's a vaccine that's not legal.
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They exist.
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These vaccines are not allowed in the United States.
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And actually the US Fashion Wildlife, USDA,
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worked together to get an exception,
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create permission to actually use
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an experimental even influenza vaccine in California Condors.
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And then ourselves and two other zoos were chosen
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to test the safety and the efficacy of the vaccine
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on some of the condors that were still on our care,
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but that were in that pipeline towards release reintroduction.
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What a great way to get involved in some so big.
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I mean, maybe some guests don't realize,
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you know, avian influenza and quote me from wrong,
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please correct me.
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But it's been around for a while,
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but it's been increasing in its exposure in different areas.
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Is that kind of a good way to think about it?
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Yeah, it's a virus that comes from wild birds.
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It's a natural thing to occur,
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but this particular strain,
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usually an even influenza outbreak is a one winter kind of thing,
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comes with the migrating birds when they come south and fall.
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And then the next year it's eradicated spontaneously.
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This outbreak has been around for three, four, five years.
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And it's global too.
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It's really unique.
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It has also been introduced into dairy cows,
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strangely.
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So now there's a...
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I did it down the current.
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Dairy cow, even influenza outbreak.
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Right, and it's effects all corners of the world.
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And for some of you guys maybe brought some eggs in the past,
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you know, maybe one of our prices have been so high as an example.
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But there are certain species that you mentioned poultry.
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I believe raptors species,
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which also include,
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there are like eagles and hawks and falcons for, yes, etc.
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But it also included the California calendar.
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And to me, it makes it feel really good that we at the Safari Park,
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the Alliance as a whole can really help out in this need to protect wildlife.
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And especially avian wildlife.
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Yeah, and it was a tough project and a very unique initiative.
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But our organization is so vested in the recovery of California,
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called for when a program then comes back and say,
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can you help us with this?
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It was a no brainer.
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And I was like, yeah, we're going to put one of veterinarians on it
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and enroll our birds.
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Assist these other zoos that did the same thing.
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Yeah, I was the great impactful, meaningful,
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and fulfilling initiative and effective.
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And what I appreciate what you shared was the fact that it's not as simple as just going,
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oh, we should come up with some sort of vaccine.
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There's more at play.
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There's government issues involved.
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There's other industries involved.
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There's so many other things at play when it comes to figuring this out.
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And I know as a dad,
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I heard about avian flu and the increase of eggs and other groceries
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that have eggs and how it was affecting us there.
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And I think it was very much in the populace's mindset.
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But to kind of step back in the wait a minute,
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this also set back the California Condor Project by 10 years.
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It really, for me, myself, it kind of repaints the picture of how these different viruses
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and diseases affect everything, not just the price of our groceries necessarily or affect our lives.
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And so what a great example of how our organization is a part of these bigger projects,
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these bigger pictures, and being able to help solve that riddle if you want.
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Yeah, I know, kidding.
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It is a great example.
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It's a very clear example of your first bits of disease threats to an endangered species
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that is recovering, almost setting it back to declining.
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So yeah, it's a great example of helping cure health hurdle in the recovery of some of these species.
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Yeah, well, that's excellent.
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Hopefully, guests can read that article and learn a little more about that California Condor initiative.
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That's really great.
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Speaking of the article, another thing that's brought up was Kichard fungus.
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That's a, as people who work with reptiles and amphibians, especially over the years,
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have really had a hard time getting ahead of that you can put a population out there,
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that you've done a breeding program with and all of a sudden you lose an entire area because
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of the Kichard fungus and how aggressively horrible this for these animals.
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What have we done as part of our initiative for wildlife health to try and get ahead of that to figure that out?
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Yeah, so again, as an organization, as a whole, has been very heavily invested in mountaineal,
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legged frog recovery.
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It's one of the species we do on-site here, conservation breeding for.
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This is not guest-facing.
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It's not in public-facing habitats.
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It's all happening behind the scenes.
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Right.
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But the key threat there is this fungus, right?
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And so, frogs get bred and released every year into three or four different areas.
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But then the threat of the Kichard fungus continues to exist.
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And so what the team trial this past year, if we could expose some of the frogs that we have here
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in our care, but then also treat them.
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So, exposing such a immune system are primed,
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they've been exposed to this pathogen.
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Right.
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But then let them become infected to the point where they become sick or potentially die.
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And so they were exposed and treated at the same time.
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And the idea here is to give them some immunity before they get released into the wild.
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And so that's an experience of us conducted here,
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between our conservation biologists and at the hospital, close supervision and management
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from the hospital teams.
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It's a very unique study because our hospitals used to having livestock and primates.
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And suddenly we have frogs and little aquariums.
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And it's a unique frog, too.
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It's really it.
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If our viewers are aware, this is our only native frog species in those high alpine areas.
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Right.
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And then this is the high alpine tube frog.
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Right.
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Exactly.
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So it's pine forest areas and cold water creeks are being released into.
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And so it is such a unique species for us here in Southern California.
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And one being a unique species, too, just being a unique habitat, I think, for California.
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No, or a stand-eo county, I should say.
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But also just being on it, and fibbing it alone, man, you get hit with all sorts of things, right?
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In the wild.
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I mean, if something unknown,
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something new on happens in an environment,
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generally it's an amphibian, a salamander frog that gets hit first, you know.
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I was going to ask you though, maybe some guests, like a little kid, especially not
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familiar with Kichard fungus.
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Could you talk about that a little bit to your knowledge of it?
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Good thoughts.
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Just one of you.
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I'm like, I know what it is.
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I know what you're going to say.
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That's one here for it.
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Kichard fungus is a fungus, right?
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It's I think everybody probably will know what a fungus is.
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But it's specific kind of fungus that causes high rates of disease and death in amphibians,
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specifically frog.
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And it has been introduced spread all around the world.
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And it's actually been, I believe, the leading cause of the client of amphibians worldwide.
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If it's not de-leading, it's one of the leading.
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And so it's a universal problem for frog conservation and amphibian conservation.
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And also to your point, our unique niche, high altitude, alpine,
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and southern California.
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It's again, hit left and right, you know.
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Can I ask you, I don't know if you can hypothesize or maybe see the future,
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but do you think this part, I know, I like to bring it super common.
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Let me bring it here.
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Right.
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Right.
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So I'm pretending to have a crystal ball for those of you who are not seeing the YouTube episode.
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That's going to happen out to you in the future.
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There you go.
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What I was curious about, do you see this particular project
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as possibly being effective for other amphibians?
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It could be susceptible to this one.
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It could be a, the idea could certainly be replicated, right?
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Other institutions that are involved with some of these species
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that are equally under threat of the Kitter-Defungers could do the same thing.
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Because we've shown you can do it.
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We can do it effectively or safely for the frogs.
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We're still waiting to see what, you know, the efficacy of the process.
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Yeah, exactly.
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We don't know yet how much protection it conveyed for the frogs when they go out into the wild.
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Time will tell soon.
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But if it works for sure, I would hope that people would replicate this approach.
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Even if it doesn't prove to be effective to first go around,
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I think it's worthwhile trying again in other species,
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different dosages, different protocols, longer exposures.
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You know, there's so many things that you could tweak and adjust.
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We could not try, right?
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Sure.
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Give it a go.
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Please.
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Yeah, how do we set it?
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We've kind of talked about that before and heard about it from other people in conservation.
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That sometimes your first try on something you don't necessarily get your results.
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Right.
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But you learn something you're going to apply to your next try.
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Yes.
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And that's what I love about this concept.
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Is it, yeah, we don't know for sure if it'll be effective,
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but it's worth finding out.
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And then making adjustments to see what we can do to make more effective.
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Yeah, and you know, it's an innovative thought.
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It's an out-of-the-box thought.
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It's something we have not done before.
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It's not just tweaking and adjusting a little bit.
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It's actually a completely different approach to how we go about this.
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So, yeah, we certainly should embrace those sort of thoughts.
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I love it.
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It's encouraging.
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It's exciting to sort of like all the unknown that you guys have to sort of address out here in
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Beckman.
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It's really inspiring.
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I got to say to see the good work you're doing.
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So kudos on that frog project.
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It's saying you good frog vibes.
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Or hopefully you can get out there in the future.
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Thank you.
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I feel them.
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But, yeah, man, I'm thinking now you guys like the variability of already what we talked about,
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right?
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And we were talking California condor.
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The largest flying bird in North America to the cutest little frog.
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If you guys haven't seen it, check out our website and check out Mountain Yellow,
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like it frog.
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There's other species, even what I do.
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So even a little bit smaller.
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So, the article mentioned something about the project mount.
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Yeah.
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And some work we're doing with them.
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I think it was something on about doing fecal studies on them.
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I understand.
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So, like, when it comes to wildlife health,
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yeah, it comes out the other end is important to know.
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You know, we're both former zookeepers.
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We understand that it's important to know what's going on there.
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From a sign.
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It's more than something you have to clean up.
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Exactly.
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There's a few book that we sell by the way.
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Yeah.
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Everyone poops, I think it's called.
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Yeah, exactly.
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What is it that your team is specifically looking at
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or trying to learn from that from the Pacific Puck amounts?
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So, in general, actually, VCs or, you know, poop.
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College you want.
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Whatever you want to call it, I can just find it.
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Good, good.
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Experiment, excrement.
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There we go.
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It is actually a very interesting biological sample for us to sample and study.
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Because it's a biological sample.
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You can most easily get from a wild animal.
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Yeah.
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So, there's actually a lot that we do in our hospitals
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and here in our research labs with fecal samples
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because it's something you can get non-invasively
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after the animals are left.
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It's all right.
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So, we try to maximize as much we can learn from a fecal sample.
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Now, in this specific case, I think what you're referencing is that
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there is a, I guess, a step back a little bit.
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Similar to the frogs, similar to the condor, similar to
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burying owls and a number of other species.
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We have a population of Pacific pocket mice here on grounds.
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That's Safari Park.
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Again, this is not guest-facing.
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We may have Pacific pocket mice on this place.
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I don't think so.
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I don't know.
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I was going to reference during the frog sound
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that there are particular tours.
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So, if I guess, visit our website at stzsafaripark.org.
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You click to tours and there's a lot of different safaris.
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And one or two, if not mistaken, include a tour through Beckman
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and also harder, which I highly recommend.
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Especially this year we're celebrating the 50th anniversary
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of the Frozen Zoo, yeah.
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So, check out the website and you can learn a lot more.
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Okay, that was my point.
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And next year is the 25th anniversary of our harder
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winner.
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25th anniversary, right?
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Harder, wonderful hospital here for guest listening.
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So, yeah, check it out.
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Yeah.
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Anyway, we got site traffic.
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Oh, I know.
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But I was going to say there is a tour though of Pacific pocket
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mouse at the moment.
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Right, because they're moving out there.
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Yeah, so there is a part of our park, our bird conservation center,
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our Cheetah Conservation Center, and also a center
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for our Pacific pocket mouse is out there as well.
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Correct, correct.
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And so, this population of mice is here as a source population
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for reintroducing Pacific pocket mice into their original habitat.
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Right?
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And so, either establishing new populations
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or for amplifying the existing breeding that's happening out there,
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these mice, like probably most other wild animals,
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do have nematose parasites, worms, and their
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testinal tract.
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And we have some people might be surprised to know that every
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animal that passes away at the zoo or park
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round gets a full post mortem by a border patrol
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just full right up and whatnot.
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And so, with that, we've learned that sometimes,
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not all the time, but these parasites,
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these worms can be harmful.
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They can lead to poor body condition, poor survival,
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the sort of general weakening.
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Doesn't often cause a direct disease.
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It's sort of normal for a wild animal.
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It's an extra burden.
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And so, before these tiny little mice that were,
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what, you know, 30 grams and they have tiny little
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fecal palates.
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They lay about a penny.
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Yeah, they're going to be around it.
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A couple pennies, two, three pennies.
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Right, yeah.
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Either way, you know, it can be difficult to do
spk_0
parasite monitoring in the feces.
spk_0
So, the team here is then a great job.
spk_0
And I'm sure it's put a lot of smiles on a lot of people's faces.
spk_0
The fecal samples so small that we actually have to pull them.
spk_0
We have to grab a whole bunch of Pacific pocket mouse feces.
spk_0
I'll imagine I'll smile at woodpeaks.
spk_0
And then you sort of triage back to,
spk_0
if you have a positive, if you triage back to,
spk_0
you know, which mouse it came from.
spk_0
spk_0
And then you don't treat that individual.
spk_0
But the point is that those mice that have a parasite burden
spk_0
does either too large or a burden that they are handling
spk_0
while it can be taxing on them.
spk_0
And it makes them less ideal to release candidates.
spk_0
May I ask you, is this something that they would normally
spk_0
be exposed to in the wild?
spk_0
And maybe it's a little more extreme?
spk_0
Yeah, parasites are, you know, I think there are very few wild
spk_0
animals that don't have parasites.
spk_0
Right. Yeah. My brain went to like,
spk_0
thick-pill parrots an example.
spk_0
But what I understand of it is,
spk_0
they're getting exposed a little more obstacles in nature
spk_0
than way normally they'd be interacting with.
spk_0
And some of it has to do with climate change
spk_0
and higher temperatures.
spk_0
So my brain started going like,
spk_0
is this something that could be attributed to that possibly?
spk_0
spk_0
Paracetic diseases,
spk_0
parasitic infections are,
spk_0
a lot of times, are still drivers of population trends.
spk_0
And while parasites can really take down
spk_0
whole populations of animals.
spk_0
And the thick-pill parrots are a great example.
spk_0
It's not in the testicle parasite.
spk_0
We get actual parasites.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
So, lice and fleas and like,
spk_0
external you're saying.
spk_0
Exactly. Yeah.
spk_0
Living on the skin and the feathers
spk_0
that might live on the feathers.
spk_0
And but again, they can be, they're normal.
spk_0
You know, they're parasites that are
spk_0
from thick-pill parasites and fourth-pill parasites.
spk_0
But sometimes when the conditions change,
spk_0
balance is upset.
spk_0
The balance is upset and you get too many
spk_0
of those parasites and you could be taxing again
spk_0
on the system and affect survival,
spk_0
especially of young animals.
spk_0
You know, they're,
spk_0
we're really a rough time.
spk_0
Yeah. Yeah.
spk_0
They're a team shot.
spk_0
True for humans, right?
spk_0
Yeah. Yeah.
spk_0
It's fun, but it's also a rough time.
spk_0
Right. Yeah.
spk_0
And that population is so small, right?
spk_0
I mean, you guys know,
spk_0
but maybe you're guests.
spk_0
I mean, what, their normal range was, let's say,
spk_0
Los Angeles County, although we're down in Baja California,
spk_0
if I'm not mistaken.
spk_0
Originally, yeah.
spk_0
Originally, now, as you see,
spk_0
little slivers.
spk_0
Yeah, and this is a postal species.
spk_0
So guests aren't aware, they really thrive in those areas
spk_0
that we like to put our houses on the beach, you know?
spk_0
So, the actual parasites like that
spk_0
are also a challenge for the burying house
spk_0
that we are working here in our county.
spk_0
The Aga Recovery Program and on the Mariana,
spk_0
islands that we work on are involved in.
spk_0
Again, Chick Fledgling Survival,
spk_0
that age where they have to leave the nest
spk_0
and go find their own way.
spk_0
If there are too many parasites,
spk_0
we know that it affects survival.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yeah, because it's challenging enough to hunt
spk_0
when you're a new kid on the block
spk_0
and figure things out.
spk_0
And then if you're dealing with the other sites.
spk_0
And you're imagining doing that when you have a poor code.
spk_0
And you're imagining, right?
spk_0
I was going to make a talk about middle school.
spk_0
We on the hot rock now, right?
spk_0
Is he now?
spk_0
Now, it's a parasite.
spk_0
And that makes me,
spk_0
and I don't know if I could have survived that.
spk_0
Some people I went to middle school with
spk_0
would call for a parasite.
spk_0
I'm just saying that.
spk_0
After hours episode, we'll talk about that.
spk_0
Yeah, that's a family background.
spk_0
You'll be surprised where it's where we go here.
spk_0
But when you were talking,
spk_0
friend, I was thinking,
spk_0
you know, all the other nuances and obstacles
spk_0
and things we have to think about when it sounds.
spk_0
I'm sure beautiful and simple when we say,
spk_0
like, yes, we've raised a California condor
spk_0
into human care.
spk_0
Yes, we are releasing them out
spk_0
into beautiful valleys of say,
spk_0
and Sanada as an example or the Grand Canyon.
spk_0
But that's not where the story ends.
spk_0
There's so much more that we have to invest in these animals.
spk_0
It's a long game, right?
spk_0
But it's definitely worth it.
spk_0
It is a long game.
spk_0
It's worth it.
spk_0
It's important.
spk_0
It's exploring understanding the role of health and recovery
spk_0
or lack of recovery is tremendously.
spk_0
More and more people are recognizing how important it is.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And in some ways,
spk_0
the fact that we're even able to talk about these
spk_0
is a luxury problem because at least we know what the problem is.
spk_0
There's a lot of species,
spk_0
populations, parts of the world
spk_0
where there are no wildlife diagnostics available.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
In fact, you know, a little tidbit
spk_0
that, you know, I don't know if I'm going too far
spk_0
of it.
spk_0
Now I'm here.
spk_0
Let's spill the tea.
spk_0
Now you've got to start.
spk_0
The veterinarians of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife
spk_0
actually for the past year now is actually using our veterinary team,
spk_0
our diagnostics labs, our pathology team,
spk_0
to get diagnostic support for the free-ranging wildlife in California.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Because it's not elsewhere available.
spk_0
And they know that we have this expertise here
spk_0
from working with these species
spk_0
and we've made it available to them.
spk_0
And so we are now working with them on.
spk_0
Man, there's no need to be brought to life.
spk_0
I mean, the alliance.
spk_0
Yeah, it does.
spk_0
Because it goes into that.
spk_0
We have that catchphrase where all life thrives.
spk_0
But it's not actually a catchphrase.
spk_0
We're opening our doors for other agencies
spk_0
who don't have access to those tools to say,
spk_0
hey, come and do this.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
We gain knowledge from it, sure.
spk_0
But it also helps the species
spk_0
we're all trying to protect.
spk_0
I mean, love that.
spk_0
Yeah, maybe think like Dr. Bernisker, right?
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, not having access to wildlife.
spk_0
But, you know, we have this beautiful Safari Park
spk_0
and we able to create that wonderful program
spk_0
for a frozen zoo.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
This is what zoos can do, right?
spk_0
So that's amazing.
spk_0
I'll add another layer to it.
spk_0
So we've been talking about the things
spk_0
that we know are problems and what we're doing about it.
spk_0
And then, so we've talked about the California Department
spk_0
of Fish and Wildlife, knowing that they had a problem
spk_0
and not having the tools to anything about it.
spk_0
A whole nother level, again, is what our organization
spk_0
and then specifically the wildlife health team is doing
spk_0
in Northern Kenya.
spk_0
The Kenya Wildlife Service veterinarians,
spk_0
so the veterinarians that are responsible
spk_0
for all the wildlife in Kenya,
spk_0
in inside and outside national parks,
spk_0
had no infectious disease diagnostics available to them at all.
spk_0
And so we are actually maybe just a different podcast.
spk_0
We are just about, we are just about, you know, drum rolls.
spk_0
We have built and are equipping a wildlife diagnostic lab
spk_0
in Northern Kenya.
spk_0
That's awesome.
spk_0
And the customers for our lab is entirely intended
spk_0
to be the Kenya Wildlife Service
spk_0
and the other Kenyan entities that are managing wildlife
spk_0
and wildlife conservation.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
So it's a whole nother level.
spk_0
They know that there are questions,
spk_0
but they don't even know what the questions are.
spk_0
But we can have that resource.
spk_0
Yeah, that's so amazing.
spk_0
All that's connected to the community's sea, right?
spk_0
I mean, we're talking about the wildlife
spk_0
can be positively impacted by this,
spk_0
but also think of all the human communities
spk_0
that are going to benefit
spk_0
for these studies and work that are being done.
spk_0
Especially in a place like Kenya,
spk_0
where you know, here we think of,
spk_0
there's a space where the lion lives
spk_0
and there's a space where we walk
spk_0
and there's a space where the cow lives.
spk_0
Right now.
spk_0
True, not true.
spk_0
And that part of the world, right?
spk_0
So there's really an overlap
spk_0
between diseases of wildlife and disease of livestock.
spk_0
And so knowing what is in the livestock,
spk_0
knowing what is in wildlife.
spk_0
Because yeah, they're walking to the same area.
spk_0
Eating the same grass,
spk_0
and drinking the same water,
spk_0
sniffing the same poop.
spk_0
Yeah, I was gonna say rubbing in at the NETT, right?
spk_0
Manel's discussing creatures.
spk_0
No, I'm just making a joke.
spk_0
No, being the bird guy, yeah.
spk_0
Stop, I know.
spk_0
I know.
spk_0
I know.
spk_0
Friends here, man.
spk_0
We're all good.
spk_0
Birds, reptiles, amphibians, all of us.
spk_0
All life, just birds.
spk_0
All life, just birds.
spk_0
I just got fooled on camera, everyone.
spk_0
Do you see that?
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
These guys are shaking their heads.
spk_0
That's really, really great work.
spk_0
Actually, I know the question for you too.
spk_0
You know, if the younger people
spk_0
that are listening in this audience right now,
spk_0
like, what would you be recommendation
spk_0
for if they're interested in this kind of work
spk_0
that you're doing here, like in the Alliance?
spk_0
Any words of wisdom, like, looking to this or to that?
spk_0
That's a whole not a podcast.
spk_0
Right there.
spk_0
Like, if anything, I know when I started realizing this
spk_0
was even a possibility as a professional
spk_0
to work with wildlife or zoo animals as a veterinarian.
spk_0
But when you start saying that out loud,
spk_0
people are like, oh, you know, just get this never gonna happen.
spk_0
spk_0
The one-art of chances, you know,
spk_0
and little boy from Belgium
spk_0
and he ended up as a veterinarian at San Diego's a wildlife line.
spk_0
So it is possible.
spk_0
And so my point is those jobs
spk_0
and those opportunities are out there.
spk_0
Somebody's gonna get them.
spk_0
Might as well be you.
spk_0
So I'll go after it.
spk_0
So you're in a very unique position with what you do
spk_0
in a unique organization that does incredible, global work.
spk_0
What's your backstory, if you'll mind me asking?
spk_0
We always kind of like to ask our guests,
spk_0
like, how did you get to where you are
spk_0
and doing this?
spk_0
Because again, your story might be something
spk_0
that someone who's listening another person from Belgium maybe
spk_0
could be like, oh, I could do that.
spk_0
What's your backstory?
spk_0
How did you get here?
spk_0
Gosh, you know, it's a very interesting story
spk_0
not for a podcast.
spk_0
My track, at some point when I was 19s,
spk_0
I always thought I wanted to be a veterinarian
spk_0
and then I actually read a book,
spk_0
a reader's digest.
spk_0
There was a story about a girl in Canada
spk_0
who rescued a harboursale pup,
spk_0
which is probably completely illegal.
spk_0
She took it home.
spk_0
I was just gonna say, I don't know how to do that.
spk_0
I didn't know that.
spk_0
But at the time, she didn't know.
spk_0
And the last paragraph,
spk_0
and so she went on to call us and study marine biology.
spk_0
And she's now a marine biologist.
spk_0
And I said, oh my gosh, you can do this.
spk_0
I don't want to be a veterinarian.
spk_0
I want to be a marine biologist.
spk_0
And so I have actually gone back and forth,
spk_0
ended up going to vet school.
spk_0
But then after vet school did some clinical training
spk_0
after that, but actually moved to New Zealand
spk_0
to do a master's in marine biology.
spk_0
And then I came to the US to do a PhD,
spk_0
and they ended up working as a veterinarian.
spk_0
And then I ended up overseeing a lab.
spk_0
And here I am now.
spk_0
I have to send you a good Zoola that flies
spk_0
with a fantastic health team.
spk_0
And really fortunate, I consider myself sort of
spk_0
the captain of the Olympic team of Zoola and Wale.
spk_0
That's awesome.
spk_0
That's awesome.
spk_0
I think friend, was there anything that we didn't ask
spk_0
that you think our audience should know about wildlife health
spk_0
and what you do in your team?
spk_0
No, no, I'm not surprised you brought a poop
spk_0
in the interview.
spk_0
Everybody should do that when you're talking to a veterinarian.
spk_0
You learn a lot from it, too.
spk_0
I also used to scoop into some castuary people matter.
spk_0
And that's pretty easy.
spk_0
I've had fun in vision like a Pacific pocket now.
spk_0
I can't even get it back yet.
spk_0
I'm magnifying glass.
spk_0
Yeah, look at the front of a little parasite egg.
spk_0
But even like I was having lunch here,
spk_0
and just seeing all the different teams from our plant teams,
spk_0
specific pocket mouths, the frog team
spk_0
were cruising by earlier team.
spk_0
But I just love the passion for everyone.
spk_0
They're hopping by.
spk_0
Oh, they're all.
spk_0
I miss those jokes, and you go, I'm about to be back.
spk_0
No, but it makes me feel really proud to be part of a team
spk_0
like this.
spk_0
Or everyone has their passions and their skill sets
spk_0
and apply them really effectively, too.
spk_0
So who does for you guys?
spk_0
And you and the team throw the work that you guys have.
spk_0
Yeah, thank you for telling this story.
spk_0
We are one of those departments that
spk_0
were most of our responsibilities are at Zoola and Park.
spk_0
But our work helps make all this conservation work.
spk_0
Yeah, exactly.
spk_0
Just like all these other people here
spk_0
who volunteer or work at St. Yagusa Water for Lions.
spk_0
And so it's not just our conservation science teams,
spk_0
our field teams who get to do this work and make it possible.
spk_0
Everybody makes it possible.
spk_0
And while the health we are very fortunate
spk_0
that we get to straddle those worlds,
spk_0
we get to have the best of the work here at home.
spk_0
And then we get to still be impactful contributors
spk_0
to the field programs.
spk_0
That's so cool.
spk_0
I do have one more question.
spk_0
I know.
spk_0
I know.
spk_0
That's all those two questions.
spk_0
That was supposed to be the final one,
spk_0
but you're my very little one.
spk_0
One more question.
spk_0
I just was saying we're still talking.
spk_0
In your experience with the Lions,
spk_0
was there a particular project that really
spk_0
showed out for you then?
spk_0
I'm kind of curious.
spk_0
Thank you.
spk_0
Thanks, man.
spk_0
Because we've talked a lot of different species,
spk_0
but I've read into your background,
spk_0
you're definitely a marine animal kind of guy.
spk_0
But I'm curious here in the Lions,
spk_0
what's the one that's kind of getting you vibing right now?
spk_0
It's getting you percolating.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, obviously I'll look at this from a health perspective.
spk_0
When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
spk_0
Oh, I'm going to look at it.
spk_0
I get that again.
spk_0
OK.
spk_0
And so I'm obviously sort of focused on the initiatives
spk_0
that have a health component.
spk_0
I'm very excited about the work we do in Kenya right now.
spk_0
Opening this lab is maybe just a stepping stone
spk_0
that will make all these other things possible.
spk_0
So that's very exciting.
spk_0
We're going to meet with our health partners in Kenya
spk_0
in two months and just a few weeks here.
spk_0
And we're starting to talk about this next phase.
spk_0
We no longer have to talk about the lab
spk_0
and the equipment and the acidities.
spk_0
We can talk about what are the needs, what's going wrong.
spk_0
Where do you suspect a health issue with wildlife
spk_0
and where do you expect that a pathogen is hindering recovery
spk_0
or causing the client?
spk_0
So that is a very exciting initiative.
spk_0
Personally, I'm also very proud and excited
spk_0
about the partnership with the California Department
spk_0
of Fish and Wildlife.
spk_0
We'll be able to give back to our wildlife
spk_0
right here in our beautiful, not just Southern California,
spk_0
but California, statewide.
spk_0
I think it's one that makes me smile.
spk_0
So Kenya, Fish and Wildlife, California, there's more.
spk_0
It is many more.
spk_0
I'm trying really hard not to mention any marine products.
spk_0
You can, amigo, it's fun.
spk_0
All creatures great and small.
spk_0
Feathered or not feathered, it's perfectly okay.
spk_0
No, but that's really great.
spk_0
It's mostly from Kenya to San Diego.
spk_0
It just shows how unlimited the possibilities are
spk_0
for the kind of effect of work that we can do.
spk_0
And hopefully that really gets guests excited to come back to the zoo,
spk_0
come back to the Safari Park after hearing this particular podcast episode
spk_0
and really try to understand some of the new ones work that we're doing here.
spk_0
And don't forget those tours, guys.
spk_0
I highly recommend it.
spk_0
Because harder and better and amazing.
spk_0
It's also real quick, just really important for our members to hear this.
spk_0
From you.
spk_0
Yeah, because a lot of times I think members know they're supporting wildlife,
spk_0
supporting conservation, but to hear these actual stories and to know that,
spk_0
wow, being a member is not only allowing me to come and go from the zoo and park
spk_0
however I want.
spk_0
It gets the school journal and whatever.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
But it's actually helping us do things like that project you mentioned in Kenya,
spk_0
which, you know, that's a lot of money.
spk_0
And it's not coming from nowhere.
spk_0
Our memories are a big part of making that happen.
spk_0
Yeah, absolutely.
spk_0
And if people do come to the zoo and park, well, not if, when,
spk_0
and if they do visit one of these behind the scenes area,
spk_0
if you got a chance to stop by one of the hospitals, please do,
spk_0
because it'll be very telling.
spk_0
It'll be very compelling.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
The quality of care and the dedication and the commitment to caring for the animals
spk_0
that is just so obvious when you walk into these facilities is,
spk_0
I wish we could share with everybody.
spk_0
Yeah, it's an impressive hospital.
spk_0
It's amazing.
spk_0
We're so involved in our zoo world.
spk_0
Like, when I go outside of the zoo world and I want to talk about something like a giant panda
spk_0
or a colondor that kind of look at me kind of oddly.
spk_0
Yeah, so I really love being around the zoo community.
spk_0
So appreciate this, Amigo.
spk_0
I learned a lot.
spk_0
So thank you so much.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Thank you very much for spending some time with, I know you're busy and you're going to be
spk_0
traveling soon.
spk_0
So I really appreciate you sitting down with us and loving us, pick your brain on these stories.
spk_0
I enjoyed it.
spk_0
Let's do it again.
spk_0
All right.
spk_0
I want to hear the after story.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That's it.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
That was really great, right?
spk_0
That was amazing.
spk_0
I mean, honestly, the journal is great.
spk_0
But being able to talk to him, adding so much more to those stories that's in the journal
spk_0
about what we're doing, it's just so cool.
spk_0
And again, goes back to what we mentioned in the interview.
spk_0
It's like, wow, it really makes you very proud to be a part of this organization.
spk_0
Oh, and I'm really do.
spk_0
It's not just spending a day at the park or the zoo, but then that work that we're collaborating
spk_0
with, fishing game, we're collaborating with Kenya and all these other things are so amazing.
spk_0
Oh, I know.
spk_0
And it makes me think of the possibilities.
spk_0
I mean, we talked about, for instance, Frozen Zoo, what we've done over 50 years ago.
spk_0
So my brain starts going, what's going to happen 50 years from now?
spk_0
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
100 years from now.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So I think I'm actually so excited to be here and be part of the Alliance.
spk_0
And hopefully a guest can one become a member.
spk_0
Read the journal.
spk_0
Learn more about these projects.
spk_0
Do the tours.
spk_0
Do the tours are pretty great.
spk_0
You know, I learned about all the nuance of wildlife from the tiny,
spk_0
little Pacific pocket mouse to this giant condor.
spk_0
Are you kidding me?
spk_0
So that's really great.
spk_0
You know, as I'm talking, I think I have an idea, but I already forgot it.
spk_0
Nidalee, what's the next episode, Fred?
spk_0
Because I want to say, I'm maybe a little bird brain, but I want to say,
spk_0
we're going to be staying at the Safari Park.
spk_0
We are.
spk_0
We are.
spk_0
And maybe we're going to celebrate a very special day.
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Well, I think there's a day near the end of September.
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There's a bird in ball.
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I don't know.
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I think giant dinosaur looking bird.
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Right, there's a lot of fruit.
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Now, let's get you guys figure it out.
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But I am super, super fun.
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I'm going to try really hard not to do that, Birkho.
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I know the sound career right now.
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I don't know.
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No, no, no, here we go.
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Here we go.
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But I'm super excited.
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Hopefully you got some sicker and learn all about the magnificent Southern Castaway.
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Yeah, yes indeed.
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I'm excited.
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I'm ready.
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Al Marco went.
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And I, Rick Swartz, thanks for listening and for watching.
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For more information about the San Diego Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park,
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go to sdzwa.org.
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Amazing wildlife is a production of I Heart Radio.
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Our supervising producers are Nikkiya Swenton and Dylan Fagan.
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And our sound designers are Sierra Spring and Matt Russell.
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For more shows from I Heart Radio,
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check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,
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or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.