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The Full Moon: Is It Messing With Us?

In this episode of Science Passes, host Wendy Zuckerman explores the age-old belief that the full moon influences human behavior. With insights from street interviews and scientific studies, the episo...

The Full Moon: Is It Messing With Us?
The Full Moon: Is It Messing With Us?
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Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman and you're listening to Science Passes.
spk_0 This is the show that pits facts against the full moon.
spk_0 Does it change who we are?
spk_0 Oh!
spk_0 This episode about the full moon has been one of our most requested episodes this past year.
spk_0 You asked for it?
spk_0 So here it is.
spk_0 And to start our journey, we sent senior producer Merrill Horn out to brave the streets of New
spk_0 York City.
spk_0 Picture it.
spk_0 There's a chill in the air.
spk_0 Out in the east, the full moon was on the rise.
spk_0 And she ventured into a park to hear at first hand what people experience when there's
spk_0 a full moon.
spk_0 It makes people wild.
spk_0 It makes them carnal.
spk_0 It's a carnal thing happening.
spk_0 Everyone does not act right.
spk_0 It's terrible.
spk_0 I think people are just wilding out.
spk_0 Claws out, you know?
spk_0 I'm blaming the moon.
spk_0 That damn moon.
spk_0 Some people said that the full moon stirred up all this drama in their lives.
spk_0 One guy said that sometimes he doesn't even go out when there's a full moon.
spk_0 I'm going to stay in that night.
spk_0 I'm going to play it safe.
spk_0 Just like I know I could feel weird or do crazy stuff.
spk_0 Folks said you just knew it was going to be a full moon that night.
spk_0 Because people at work would be going bonkers.
spk_0 And this is in the research too.
spk_0 It shows that some healthcare workers think the full moon makes their patients behave stranger.
spk_0 One survey even showed that some doctors and nurses think they should get full moon
spk_0 hasn't paid.
spk_0 Merrill heard about this as well at the park.
spk_0 My mom was a nurse at the state hospital and she had a lot of psychiatric patients.
spk_0 And she was like, oh man, the full moon is the worst.
spk_0 It's the absolute worst.
spk_0 So maybe it's the worst?
spk_0 Because people do act crazy.
spk_0 I worked in retail.
spk_0 I worked there for like a full year every single time on the full moon.
spk_0 We had the craziest customers.
spk_0 And I would tell everyone I'd be like, it's the full moon.
spk_0 Watch out.
spk_0 And they'd be like, it's not going to be that bad of a day.
spk_0 It was.
spk_0 It was the worst days.
spk_0 Every single day.
spk_0 You still work there?
spk_0 No, I quit.
spk_0 You quit on the full moon actually.
spk_0 Like fully, quit on the full moon.
spk_0 And perhaps the creepiest thing of all, people said that the full moon could make blood come
spk_0 out of your vagina.
spk_0 I mean, they didn't put it quite like that.
spk_0 It definitely affects me from like the feminine cycle or the monthly cycle.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 Do you think you think up with the full moon?
spk_0 Yeah, for sure.
spk_0 My period will probably be coming because it's usually cycle with the moon.
spk_0 Literally, I go to beauty school, I go to cosmology school, it's mostly women.
spk_0 All their cycles synced up to this week, basically.
spk_0 So up to the full moon.
spk_0 So like they're in the middle of their periods.
spk_0 Literally today.
spk_0 So could the moon be affecting our body and our behavior in these strange ways?
spk_0 While this idea might sound like it belongs in the world of horoscopes, perhaps even fairy
spk_0 tales.
spk_0 Some scientists have been taking it very seriously.
spk_0 And in the past few years in particular, there's been a slew of peer-reviewed scientific
spk_0 papers coming out and claiming that the moon really can affect our bodies in very surprising
spk_0 ways.
spk_0 So in today's episode, we are going to look at this cutting edge science.
spk_0 And by the end of the year, you might just be feeling a little carnal yourself.
spk_0 For hundreds of years, we've blamed all sorts of stuff on the...
spk_0 Bad damn moon.
spk_0 But then, there's science.
spk_0 Science versus the full moon is coming up after the break.
spk_0 Welcome back today on the show.
spk_0 We're looking at the full moon.
spk_0 There's one coming up on Monday.
spk_0 So we're asking, can it really influence us change our behavior?
spk_0 And fellow Lunar Explorer, Meryl Hott is here.
spk_0 Hi, Wendy.
spk_0 OK, so first up, can we just get a bit of a layer of the land?
spk_0 And could you just explain, why do you see a full moon or a half moon or whatever?
spk_0 Why does it change?
spk_0 Yes, I can explain this.
spk_0 I actually brought a prop.
spk_0 Oh, great.
spk_0 OK, so I have a model of the sun, the earth and the moon for you.
spk_0 My God, you've really gone all out, Meryl.
spk_0 OK, so we are right now on the surface of the earth, right?
spk_0 Yeah, that I know.
spk_0 Yes, so imagine you're spinning around and around, the earth is moving around and around.
spk_0 And when we're on the part of the earth, that's facing away from the sun,
spk_0 that's what we call nighttime, right?
spk_0 Right, yes.
spk_0 Well, the moon also has a side that's lit up and a side that's dark.
spk_0 And we see different amounts of that lit up side,
spk_0 depending on where the moon is and its orbit around the sun.
spk_0 So when we see a full moon, it's when the moon is in this really particular position,
spk_0 where you've got the moon on one side of the earth and then the sun on the other side.
spk_0 So it's almost like the sun and the moon are making an earth sandwich.
spk_0 OK, and the earth is in the middle.
spk_0 It's the mate's chase of the sandwich.
spk_0 Yeah, and so the new moon, when the moon looks dark, is when it's in a different position.
spk_0 So in that case, the moon is like the meat of the sandwich and the earth and the sun are the bread.
spk_0 OK, so could it, could just that fact that the billiard balls up in space are in this arrangement affect our behavior?
spk_0 I mean, it feels like maybe far fetched at first, but if you think about it,
spk_0 we know that the moon affects other animals.
spk_0 That's right.
spk_0 And you know, it's funny, the one thing that everybody associates with the full moon, wolves howling,
spk_0 I actually couldn't find any evidence backing that up at all.
spk_0 Oh, OK.
spk_0 But what I do have for you is that coyotes will howl more together on a new moon night.
spk_0 That's what they sound like.
spk_0 Yeah, kind of even creepier, right?
spk_0 Like, there are these coyotes that will like yip together in groups at the darkest time of the month.
spk_0 Some owls will call out more when the moon is darker and badgers will pee more on stuff during a new moon.
spk_0 But what about wait, who's affected by the full moon?
spk_0 I'm getting there on the other side.
spk_0 It's called the full moon, not new moon.
spk_0 All right, and then on full moon, some birds will hatch more around a full moon.
spk_0 Oh, there's a there's a little worm that does a mating dance that happens just after a full moon.
spk_0 Corals release their spawns a few nights after a full moon, which is an incredible event that you can see from space.
spk_0 And some primates like nocturnal ones will eat more during full moons.
spk_0 And I even found this one reference from the 1800s where scientists said that recess monkeys were at their most fertile during full moons.
spk_0 So there are like all these ways that the moon is affecting animals.
spk_0 Now we're cooking with the recess monkeys were in primate land.
spk_0 I feel a kinship.
spk_0 All right, but what about human adibles, Merrill?
spk_0 Are we affected by the moon?
spk_0 And why don't we start with the idea that on a full moon, hospitals get packed, patients are going wild.
spk_0 Yeah, yeah.
spk_0 So researchers have actually looked into this.
spk_0 So there is, you know, the thinking is that if the full moon really is making people act more recklessly, then maybe we'll like see evidence for that and how busy ERs are.
spk_0 And I mean, there is a just a long history of people thinking that this kind of thing is true.
spk_0 You can see it in our language like the word lunatic that comes from the moon.
spk_0 And so to find out if this is real, I talk to another Wendy, Wendy Coats.
spk_0 Is that going to be confusing for you?
spk_0 I know. It'll make me feel right at home.
spk_0 So what does expert Wendy say?
spk_0 Well, she's been an emergency medicine physician for over three decades.
spk_0 And she published one of the first studies on this question of whether ERs are more busy on full moons.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 It came out a few decades ago.
spk_0 Great.
spk_0 So I got in touch.
spk_0 You reached out right around the time of the blood moon that was receiving so much popular press attention here.
spk_0 And every time there's something about the full moon, I kind of remember sort of nostalgicly back to this study.
spk_0 And then the next day I opened my email and you're like, hi, I'm Merrill.
spk_0 Hello.
spk_0 Tell us the story of Wendy study.
spk_0 So it all started when she was just an intern at a major trauma center in Pittsburgh.
spk_0 And she said that pretty quickly, she started hearing about this idea that things might get busier when there's a full moon.
spk_0 Okay. So you have to picture a bunch of emergency physicians and emergency nurses sitting around.
spk_0 Well, well, we don't really sit around, but you know, like in passing or you know, you're sitting down to do your charting.
spk_0 And somebody says, get ready.
spk_0 It's a full moon tonight.
spk_0 What did they mean?
spk_0 Oh, we're going to have all these terrible accidents or you know, you just can't even imagine.
spk_0 Here I am like a lowly intern and like all of these super experienced emergency department nurses and physicians are like gearing up for just like this intense night shift.
spk_0 And so I was like, okay, well, this must be something.
spk_0 Yeah, you're the coyote.
spk_0 Yeah, I will I will everything inside of me wanted to go.
spk_0 And I realized that's no like a factually acceptable.
spk_0 But those are during a new move.
spk_0 So we have to rebrand the coyote.
spk_0 Oh, that's right.
spk_0 Girls don't make any noise.
spk_0 Okay, so Wendy all as a furious believe this to be true.
spk_0 What happens next?
spk_0 Well, so then she decides to do like a proper study on this.
spk_0 So here's what they did.
spk_0 She worked with her advisor and they got the records from her trauma center for a year over 1400 people altogether.
spk_0 And she looked to see like how many people were admitted, how bad are people's injuries, whether or not they died.
spk_0 And then they took the day of the full moon and also the day before that and the day after it to kind of look at all those nights around the full moon.
spk_0 And then compare those nights to every other night of the month to see like, okay, is there any difference here was this night different to all of the nights.
spk_0 Yeah, yeah, here's what she's up.
spk_0 It was pretty funny because we're like, hmm.
spk_0 It looks like there's no difference.
spk_0 Oh, no difference.
spk_0 Yeah, there was no increase in how many people were admitted, how bad their traumas were or how many of these patients died around the full moon.
spk_0 And in fact, well, maybe there are fewer traumas and less severe traumas on the actual full moon days than the other days.
spk_0 Less, less severe traumas, she said.
spk_0 Yeah, a little bit, which she thought about it and was like, oh, maybe this makes sense because on those nights.
spk_0 It's brighter.
spk_0 So maybe it's easier to drive on dark country roads where lots of motor vehicle accidents occur.
spk_0 Maybe you're not quite as likely to go stab somebody because you'd be more visible to more eyewitnesses.
spk_0 And since Wendy's study others have come out looking at the same thing across the world, like a couple studies from the Netherlands did see a tiny decrease in traumas on a full moon.
spk_0 Decr- decrease again.
spk_0 Yeah, yeah, it was like better.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 And overall, a review of these studies said that there's no increase in how busy emergency departments are during a full moon.
spk_0 Oh, right.
spk_0 So Wendy, does she, does she worry when there's a full moon these days?
spk_0 No, yeah, I asked her because she actually still works in an ER.
spk_0 Now when you hear people mention this idea that it's a full moon tonight, get ready.
spk_0 Do you say anything?
spk_0 Nope.
spk_0 No, I never do because, you know, like you don't want to be that person.
spk_0 And you're like, actually, we study this and we found the gravity, gravity, blood.
spk_0 Like you just don't want to be that person.
spk_0 Do you know, I feel like this will really land the point hashtag not all Wendy's, you know?
spk_0 Or not, will actually Wendy's?
spk_0 Yeah, some of us are well actually Wendy's, some of us are not.
spk_0 And Wendy had this really lovely theory as to like why this idea sticks around the ER despite the lack of evidence.
spk_0 You know, like if you have a group of people and they're united against some sort of assault.
spk_0 So, you know, you're going to have this night that's crazy busy.
spk_0 You're not going to get to eat.
spk_0 You're not going to get to go to the bathroom.
spk_0 But yeah, we can all unite on the reason.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And just like, yeah, yeah.
spk_0 It's like bonding.
spk_0 It's bonding time and we can't predict who's coming.
spk_0 We can't predict how busy it's going to be.
spk_0 But what we can predict is that we're all there for each other.
spk_0 And that sometimes something like talking about a full moon or the little look you give up to the sky as you're walking past one another gives you a little bit more encouragement to help you do your job well.
spk_0 And be together with your team to take care of all the patients who come in.
spk_0 It's not nice.
spk_0 It is not.
spk_0 It is not.
spk_0 It is not.
spk_0 It is not.
spk_0 I find that we can only be united by the full moon.
spk_0
spk_0 So, where do we go to?
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 Well, so yeah, it doesn't seem like the full moon makes the year is busier.
spk_0 By the way, I also looked into this idea that there's more crime on a full moon.
spk_0 A couple of studies looked at that and did not see anything there either.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 But Wendy, this does not put the Kabbash on the whole idea that the moon can affect our behavior.
spk_0 Actually, after doing all of this research, I am more of a true believer.
spk_0 Real, Meryl Haunt never thought I'd see the day.
spk_0 Meryl Haunt, PhD, you know.
spk_0 I know.
spk_0 What did you find?
spk_0 Okay, so there's this one super interesting study that I want to tell you about.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 All right, so it was done by Professor Orescio, Deila Inglesia at the University of Washington
spk_0 in Seattle.
spk_0 Have you ever howled at the moon?
spk_0 Not really, not yet.
spk_0 But maybe, you know, if I keep doing research on it, I might end up doing that.
spk_0 Well, I think you'd be keep doing research on it.
spk_0 He'll know that that's a myth.
spk_0 Meryl Haunt, that's true.
spk_0 But so he's done field work in Argentina where he's from with a group of indigenous people,
spk_0 the Tobacom, who were living in a really remote area with no electricity.
spk_0 And he was curious whether living in these conditions, the moon might be affecting their
spk_0 sleep.
spk_0 This sleep, yeah.
spk_0 Essentially, they live very much in tune with the natural daylight and the natural light
spk_0 dark cycle.
spk_0 So there's no street lights, no.
spk_0 No street lights, no lights in the houses.
spk_0 So he asks people to wear a device on their wrist, sort of like a Fitbit, but fancier,
spk_0 that tracks their sleep.
spk_0 25 people agreed to do this.
spk_0 And then he like plotted out all of this sleep data next to the like lunar cycle to see
spk_0 if there were any patterns.
spk_0 It's sorry if on a full moon, people slept more or less.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And he did see that on the days leading up to a full moon, people were sleeping less.
spk_0 People were going to bed much later up to an hour later and sleeping by about an hour
spk_0 less.
spk_0 Huh.
spk_0 That's a pretty big effect.
spk_0 Yeah, that's a huge effect in sleep terms, right?
spk_0 On average, it was about a 45 minute difference.
spk_0 Huh.
spk_0 And Arasya thought that it was probably the brightness of the moon that was doing this.
spk_0 Yeah, right.
spk_0 Particularly for this community.
spk_0 We don't realize how bright the moon is, particularly when you are under totally natural
spk_0 light conditions, right?
spk_0 Because suddenly the sun set to get very dark.
spk_0 And if the moon happens to come up just before, you know, you're about to go to bed, it's
spk_0 nearly impossible to go to bed, right?
spk_0 You see the moon there.
spk_0 It's that bright out there.
spk_0 Exactly.
spk_0 You know, you could even read under full moon light.
spk_0 Oh, wow.
spk_0 So then Arasya decides to look at places that weren't rural like cities.
spk_0 He starts with a group of topical people who are living in a more urban area.
spk_0 And weirdly, he found that their sleep was still affected by the moon.
spk_0 So now Arasya is like, okay, let's run the experiment again where he lives in the US
spk_0 in Seattle and Washington state.
spk_0 He gets sleep data from about 120 people there, mostly young adults.
spk_0 And he still sees the same pattern.
spk_0 So these people living in Seattle were also sleeping less on the nights leading up to
spk_0 a full moon by like 20 to 40 minutes.
spk_0 And so now he's sure it's not the brightness of the moon anymore.
spk_0 Well, yeah, because this is Seattle.
spk_0 Like it's cloudy most of the time and the winds are there.
spk_0 And Arasya is still seeing this pattern even in the winter.
spk_0 And then the moon light is also competing with other forms of light in a city.
spk_0 Like apparently the moon, even when it's full, is still something like 50 times less bright
spk_0 than a single street light.
spk_0 The fact is that we see very clear lunar rhythms in people living in a place where light
spk_0 pollution is way above the intensity of full moon nights.
spk_0 And we cannot explain that by moonlight.
spk_0 So what's going on?
spk_0 Was it just that they were partying more on a full moon?
spk_0 Yeah, even like going to like full moon parties?
spk_0 I guess so.
spk_0 Well, you know, sit now in the park, watch the full moon.
spk_0 I don't think so because when you look at the data, it's not like people were like suddenly
spk_0 sleeping less just on the night where there is a full moon.
spk_0 And what you actually see is this pattern where you kind of like sleep less and less,
spk_0 gradually in the days leading up to the full moon.
spk_0 And then it kind of peaks.
spk_0 And then you start sleeping more and more and more.
spk_0 And then the full moon happens and you keep sleeping more and more.
spk_0 And kind of goes like up and down, up and down in this like wave pattern.
spk_0 And Arasya saw this across all his data.
spk_0 By now I have no doubt that there's a lunar month modulation of sleep,
spk_0 particularly when you see single people doing this beautiful,
spk_0 synosoidal oscillation in their sleep.
spk_0 Would you want to see the wave pattern?
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 Oh, yeah.
spk_0 Yeah, there's a very nice wave pattern there.
spk_0 Very intriguing.
spk_0 It's a beautiful sinusoidal pattern.
spk_0 It is a beautiful sinusoidal pattern.
spk_0 So yeah, it really doesn't feel like you could like create that pattern of sleep,
spk_0 even if you tried, right?
spk_0 It's not like people partake a little bit more.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And if the moon affects their sleep,
spk_0 then that kind of opens the door to it maybe affecting us in other ways too,
spk_0 because we know that sleep can affect our mood and our mental health.
spk_0 Oh, ha.
spk_0 And in fact, like there are actually studies on bipolar disorder,
spk_0 specifically this thing called rapid cycling bipolar disorder.
spk_0 And what the researchers are seeing there is that these patients seem to like be switching
spk_0 between mania and depression in a timing that kind of lines up with the cycles of the moon.
spk_0 And those researchers also think this could be related to sleep,
spk_0 like maybe if you're losing sleep around the full moon,
spk_0 it might kind of trigger a manic state.
spk_0 Box.
spk_0 And so now Horacio and some other scientists believe that like,
spk_0 yeah, it does seem like the moon is doing something strange here
spk_0 that it's like somehow changing our bodies and our brains and affecting our sleep.
spk_0 And it's not just about how bright it is or partying more or whatever.
spk_0 It's like there's something else.
spk_0 What though?
spk_0 How is it doing it?
spk_0 Well, exactly right.
spk_0 That's what we'll look at after the break.
spk_0 Welcome back.
spk_0 Merrill has promised to tell us why the lunar cycles might be getting into our
spk_0 body and somehow affecting our sleep.
spk_0 I don't know.
spk_0 What's going on here, Merrill?
spk_0 This is strange.
spk_0 Well, I mean, this is where things get exciting, right?
spk_0 Because now we have this thing that the moon is doing to us and we just need to figure out how.
spk_0 And you know, when I talk to people on the streets about this,
spk_0 about how the full moon could be affecting us, they had all sorts of ideas.
spk_0 I definitely think this is an energy thing.
spk_0 It's because all of us are really here in a sea of energy.
spk_0 It's that energy.
spk_0 I feel like energy, like different types of energy,
spk_0 that you...
spk_0 I don't know.
spk_0 I feel like it is.
spk_0 We're made of like 70% water and like the moon controls the tide,
spk_0 so it would make sense that it has an effect on us too.
spk_0 Humans are 70% water, so the moon is going to automatically influence us if we are water.
spk_0 It's also actually only like 55% water.
spk_0 But anyway, let's look at this.
spk_0 Because like the general idea is that we know the moon creates tides in the oceans
spk_0 through like the pole of its gravity on water.
spk_0 So what if it's doing something similar to us?
spk_0 Right.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 And is there any evidence for that?
spk_0 Well, first my question actually was just like, okay, sure,
spk_0 it's like pulling on us a little bit.
spk_0 But like how much?
spk_0 Like is it realistic that it's a big enough force to do anything?
spk_0 So I asked an astronomer and its title expert.
spk_0 And they didn't like laugh it off completely,
spk_0 but they did the calculations on like how big the forces were.
spk_0 And they were tiny like minuscule.
spk_0 One of them found that the force of the moon's gravity on our bodies is less than if you were
spk_0 just like walking by a tall building.
spk_0 Like that building next to you would have a bigger force on our bodies than the moon.
spk_0 Because it's like a lot closer.
spk_0 Yes.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 But still like just because the force is small doesn't mean that it's not doing anything
spk_0 to anybody like I wondered if we know of any animal that can sense this this poll from the moon
spk_0 and thought of the animals that like live in the title zone.
spk_0 Because those animals are really affected by the moon's gravitational pull.
spk_0 How big the tides are has this huge impact on their day-to-day life.
spk_0 Right.
spk_0 And so how are they detecting those changes?
spk_0 Is it just you know through the water or
spk_0 gravitational changes directly for the moon?
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 So to find out I called Professor Christens as Merrebley at the University of Vienna and Austria
spk_0 since she wrote a review about how animals are affected by the moon in different ways.
spk_0 Right.
spk_0 So I asked her, do we know of any organism that can directly sense the changes from the moon's gravity?
spk_0 Oh.
spk_0 I don't know.
spk_0 No.
spk_0 Who uses it?
spk_0 I mean not, I mean you mean not obviously title changes.
spk_0 Not being jostled by the tides yet but like directly sensing the moon's gravity.
spk_0
spk_0 I'm sensing it.
spk_0 I am not aware of something like this.
spk_0 So yeah the case for gravity I'd say is pretty weak.
spk_0 Much like the gravitational force of the moon or us.
spk_0 Yeah exactly.
spk_0 Okay so it's probably not gravity.
spk_0 What else is there?
spk_0 Well there's one other thing.
spk_0 So the earth has this super cool magnetic field around it.
spk_0 Right.
spk_0 And as the moon revolves around the earth it seems to like mess with this field.
spk_0 And we do know that some animals can sense the earth's magnetic field.
spk_0 We know organisms like migratory birds
spk_0 that use that for their long distance flights.
spk_0 And it's actually not only for us also butterflies
spk_0 sense the magnetic field.
spk_0 And the way we think that they're doing this is through this protein called crypto-chrome.
spk_0 Uh-huh.
spk_0 Sounds like something I should have invested in 10 years ago.
spk_0 What is it?
spk_0 Okay so yeah crypto-chrome is a protein in our bodies that can interact with the
spk_0 magnetic fields.
spk_0 And it seems to be helping the birds know which direction to fly.
spk_0 And do humans have crypto-chrome?
spk_0 We do.
spk_0 We do have a version of crypto-chrome.
spk_0 It's not the exact same protein that the birds have.
spk_0 But we actually do have a little evidence that our crypto-chrome
spk_0 can sense the magnetic fields too.
spk_0 And so maybe that's how the moon's affecting us.
spk_0 Because like okay what we would be looking for if you know the earth's magnetic field has been
spk_0 this thing like right.
spk_0 It maybe you should have a similar kind of wave pattern like that sinusoidal curve that we saw in
spk_0 Horacio's sleep data.
spk_0 And then I stumbled on this graph where I was like whoa all right let me let me show this to you.
spk_0 Show me the whoa graph is it sinusoidal again?
spk_0 Because I don't know my hand will back Merrill.
spk_0 I don't know my hand will it.
spk_0 So it's going to scroll down and the script.
spk_0 So it's like so long guys.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 You didn't think you were listening to a nerdy podcast.
spk_0 You did it.
spk_0 That is okay.
spk_0 So what is this magnetic field?
spk_0 Yeah this is the change in magnetic fields over a lunar cycle.
spk_0 So the line in the middle is the full moon.
spk_0 The magnetic field is apparently lower in that days leading up to a full moon just like Horacio
spk_0 saw and then it gets like higher after the full moon.
spk_0 But I don't know if I've gone off the deep end like this paper is all you know it's from like
spk_0 the 1960s like yeah it's hand drawn it's hand drawn that's for sure.
spk_0 It's like I was off the page.
spk_0 Like someone used a ruler to make those lines.
spk_0 Okay so what this shows us is that the moon affects the magnetic field in this sinusoidal pattern
spk_0 that is similar to the way that the moon seems to affect our sleep.
spk_0 Step one but then step two as anyone to figure out if the crypto chrome in us
spk_0 is actually detecting those changes to the magnetic field and that that is then
spk_0 affecting our sleep.
spk_0 No like nobody's actually like connected all the dots here to find out okay can we really sense
spk_0 the magnetic fields at all and can that mess with our sleep.
spk_0 When Kristen was explaining this to me there was lots of like hand waving going on and like
spk_0 emphasis that it's like all kind of just theoretical so it's really unclear still.
spk_0 But this is a lot of wild speculations to emphasize.
spk_0 Yeah she said that this question of whether the moon is having like a subconscious effects on us
spk_0 is at the frontiers of our knowledge it's like a black hole.
spk_0 But that doesn't mean that it's impossible or like a silly idea
spk_0 just because it is a subconscious phenomenon it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist right.
spk_0 I think people tend to say oh I cannot feel it and therefore it doesn't exist but we usually
spk_0 don't feel our liver at least hopefully not but it's very existing right so yeah
spk_0 doing all sorts of stuff to us exactly exactly so I mean the fact that we are not consciously
spk_0 aware of something is true for a lot of our physiology.
spk_0 Do you think that the moon for sure is influencing people?
spk_0 I think yes the reason why I think yes is that Emma biologist.
spk_0 For me as a biologist humans are just another type of animal who are made of the same stuff as
spk_0 the worms. Exactly we're at the end exactly like this with some few specifications that are
spk_0 different yeah from the larger perspective it's emotional so.
spk_0 Okay so here's where we are at the cycles of the moon do seem to affect our sleep somehow we're
spk_0 not sure how. Last question can it affect blood coming out of our vaginas?
spk_0 You mean our menstrual cycles? Yes. Yeah let's look at that it comes up all the time I've heard
spk_0 from a lot of people who think there's something there so yeah I called up a scientist who did a
spk_0 pretty wild study on this. T9 describing a period based study as a wild study is immediately
spk_0 making me think of just a scientist throwing around dirty damp on some reason.
spk_0 I mean it isn't going that carnal but it's you know how wild it's so annoying.
spk_0 All right let me tell you about it okay okay so the idea first came to her when she had this
spk_0 commute where she was walking a lot at night. I was walking from the train station to my home
spk_0 family home. And what did it look like on a night when there is a moon? Oh fantastic because you
spk_0 could see everything you don't need lights in the street so I always loved the moon to be out.
spk_0 This is Charlotte a health freak forester senior professor at the University of Wurtsberg in
spk_0 Germany and she noticed something about her period around this time. My first day of
spk_0 man's is was always around the phone moon and when I was really astonished oh that's interesting.
spk_0 Do you know Merrill I'm the exact opposite that my I will ovulate around a full moon
spk_0 and get my period I guess in a new moon. But I just assumed it was because I'm a pretty regular
spk_0 cycle and that's just what a month is you know around 28 days or whatever. Sure but like if you
spk_0 think about it even that's pretty weird right like that for a lot of us our periods just happen to
spk_0 be 29 days long which is the same length as the lunar cycle. I guess so right yeah why why our
spk_0 our cycles the same as the cycles of the moon okay yeah I mean yeah it could just be a coincidence
spk_0 but maybe something else is going on here and so like for Charlotte as she started wondering
spk_0 how long have I been getting my periods at the full moon right and luckily enough she had actually
spk_0 been keeping track of when she was getting her period for basically her entire life um
spk_0 like she started when she first started getting her period. My mother told me to make always a
spk_0 cross in my calendar at the first day of my man's is so I did it without thinking and kept all
spk_0 these little calendars at her home in a cabinet and so now she she went back to check like
spk_0 is this has this always been a thing for me amazing and just by eye she could tell that like oh
spk_0 yeah for like many years of my life I've either been synced with a full moon or sometimes it was
spk_0 the new moon and so she starts wondering all right how how many people is this like true for
spk_0 so she asks her mom and her sister if they kept their calendars and they did and she looked at
spk_0 their data and saw similar stuff but of course as a scientist you know that free examples are not
spk_0 enough and then I started to ask colleagues friends whether they by chance had kept any recordings
spk_0 of the men's and so it took her about 10 years to collect this data from 22 women who had kept
spk_0 track of their cycles for an average of 15 years of their life wow okay and so now we can find out
spk_0 do people on average get their periods more often around the time of a full moon great so what did
spk_0 she find she saw that yeah there was something there so in this group of 22 women they were more
spk_0 likely to start their periods either around the time of a full moon like especially the days leading
spk_0 up to a full moon or the new moon oh how curious but like I'm one of these people who does not
spk_0 think this is true for me so I asked how strong of an effect was it since I I was curious I looked at
spk_0 my data for the past few months and it definitely was not syncing yeah yeah yeah so the full moon
spk_0 that is very important the effect is really very small and to be honest when you look at your
spk_0 entire cycle it's only a small part during a cycle that is synchronous to the moon so yeah I mean
spk_0 obviously it's not like everyone's getting their periods on the full moon yeah right it more it's
spk_0 more like it up to your chances a little bit that you'd get your period on either a full moon or a
spk_0 new moon okay but there's something else that I need to tell you about her study so after it came
spk_0 out in 2021 all these other women start sending sure a lot of their calendars they're like when
spk_0 they got their period so then she got data from more than a hundred other people and she tried
spk_0 crunching the numbers again and here's what happened I was absolutely disappointed when I pulled all
spk_0 the data the new data that I had I didn't see any synchronization to the moon anymore so it was
spk_0 very different from my first study was a 22 women that classic thing where you study something in a
spk_0 few people get a very exciting results and then you study it in more and more people it realized
spk_0 it's not generalizable we've seen this countless times before yeah the anecdote in the room
spk_0 that gets the headlines okay I mean Charlottesville thinks there could be something here like she's
spk_0 been looking into whether light pollution is a factor but she also pointed me to some other data
spk_0 like okay so there's an analysis that came out recently from a period tracking app and it looked
spk_0 at seven and a half million cycles and they didn't see any syncing to the moon whatsoever
spk_0 and this has actually made me feel more like a witch you know because obviously because it's
spk_0 so rare yeah we couldn't all be witches you know well I'm glad you feel special now um that's what I'm
spk_0 here for but I guess we're all a bit witchy because the moon is affecting all of us sleep in this
spk_0 mysterious way don't patronize me because I have sleep still I don't feel like a witch
spk_0 it's okay do you think that the moon is affecting you?
spk_0 hmm I really love uh I love the moon I love a big full moon I like looking at it I like thinking
spk_0 how small I am in this big universe reminds me of that I love when you see it rising and it's
spk_0 just huge hmm I love it for all those reasons I don't I don't know if it's having some
spk_0 deeper subconscious effect on my body what about you Merrill you've been you've been researching
spk_0 this for a while has it changed your view of the moon? yeah I think it I don't know I feel like now
spk_0 I um less skeptical like when I was in the park and everybody was telling me about how they
spk_0 felt like the moon was just changing the energy and like they could feel it and that they knew there
spk_0 was like something there I was just like rolling my eyes and like sure it's like changing the energy
spk_0 but now I'm like oh actually maybe it is this magnetic fields are just like a kind of energy
spk_0 it's just so mysterious there is an effect at least on our sleep that we don't understand yet
spk_0 and I feel like a more humble now about like what's possible with our bodies and the moon
spk_0 do you want to get with me? yeah thanks Merrill thanks Wendy all right Merrill how many
spk_0 citations in this week's episode this week we have 52 citations and if you go to our show notes
spk_0 you can find links to the transcripts where you can see all of them and read more about the moon
spk_0 excellent if you want to tell us what you thought of this episode we'd love to hear from you we are
spk_0 at science underscore the s on instagram I'm at tiktok at Wendy's look thanks Merrill have a
spk_0 happy full moon oh yeah be careful
spk_0 this episode was produced by me Merrill Horn with help from Wendy's cameraman rose rimler
spk_0 dang in a kettie foster keys were edited by blight's or l mix and sound design by bumi hidaka
spk_0 fact checking by marlow starling music written by bumi hidaka bobby lord emma monger so wiley and
spk_0 peter Leonard thanks to all the researchers we spoke to for this episode including dr. Ron flick
spk_0 dr. michael smolensky michael bevington dr. laurel sims professor Laura prude and dr. martin
spk_0 niceton special thanks to kevin walch and all the folks who chatted with me about the full moon
spk_0 science versus is a spotify studios original listen for free on spotify or wherever you get your
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spk_0 we'll fact you soon