RASSIE+ | Too Small, Too ‘Quota’ – How Breyton Paulse Defied It All

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Good.

spk_0 Yes, thank you for being here, man.

spk_0 I just went through a few clips, actually, actually clips in games, but you must help me,

spk_0 I sometimes talk too much, but I want you.

spk_0 But you've been on TV all the time.

spk_0 And I want to get to taste matches and what you've done and where we've played together

spk_0 and what you've achieved, because I think we have to remind people that, you know, there's

spk_0 some people, maybe, of the younger generation who don't know what we looked like when we

spk_0 play.

spk_0 But I would, actually, when I read through some of the stuff, that, that's the story,

spk_0 man.

spk_0 Where did you grow up?

spk_0 How did you get into Rock Pitch?

spk_0 So people can maybe, I mean, a lot of people know you're all these, of course, you're

spk_0 legend.

spk_0 But just, I think it's unique compared to other global icepane comes from.

spk_0 Yes, thanks for having me.

spk_0 It's good to see you again.

spk_0 I know you're busy, man.

spk_0 Well, you've done such tremendous stuff over the last couple of years that I think we

spk_0 all grateful.

spk_0 And when I got the call, you know, I was like, wow, no, no, we need to chat.

spk_0 We need to chat.

spk_0 It's about time.

spk_0 Yeah, a lot of people, obviously, you know, especially the international people probably

spk_0 don't know my story.

spk_0 And I think it's quite important that they also know, you know, where I come from.

spk_0 So I was born and raised on a farm called the Kier in the Kaua Boko Fjord.

spk_0 It's the closest town in series.

spk_0 And the Kaua Boko Fjord consists of a lot of farms.

spk_0 It's a massive region where many are farmers farmed for generations.

spk_0 And some of the most wonderful, good-hearted people.

spk_0 And so my story started where there's, you know, I grew up in the farm, raised by my

spk_0 mum, my grandpa, my granddad.

spk_0 And as farm kids, you know, we all just went to school.

spk_0 We did the normal farm place stuff where we, after school, we went, played rugby, cricket,

spk_0 soccer.

spk_0 But the community also, rugby, mad community.

spk_0 And when I grew up and opened my eyes, it was like Blue Bulls in Western Provinces.

spk_0 And obviously, being in a bull hunt, you know, I decided myself, no, no, no, I'm going

spk_0 to be a Western Provinces.

spk_0 Some of my family members were Northern Transval, but that was the big rivalry that when

spk_0 you also know when you grew up, you know, the rivalry since that African rugby was, it

spk_0 still is.

spk_0 It's very, very huge.

spk_0 And so I grew up.

spk_0 When my mum worked in the farmer's kitchen, I'm sure the toy.

spk_0 And when I got to Matrik, you know, I'm sure I called me in.

spk_0 And he's like, Breti, son, what you want to do next year.

spk_0 And I'm like, man, I can become a tractor driver.

spk_0 I'll be happy.

spk_0 You know, Bucker.

spk_0 And I thought to myself, was it the right thing to say?

spk_0 Because when the big boss called you in, there's trouble.

spk_0 But here was Mr. The Tweet to say to me that, listen, Breti, I'm going to send you to

spk_0 University of Stalmbosch.

spk_0 If your points are good enough and whatever happens, it's on you.

spk_0 You've got to pick the accountability and responsibility to go study at Stalmbosch

spk_0 University.

spk_0 And that is my wish for you.

spk_0 And at first I thought he was making a joke.

spk_0 And then the rest of the man, I was like, wow, you know, that moment literally changed

spk_0 my life.

spk_0 I think.

spk_0 Obviously fast forwarding, I went to go study psychology at Stalmbosch.

spk_0 But the back of my mind, I was like, wow, you know, when I go to Stalmbosch University,

spk_0 I look at all the rugby fields, the tradition, the culture of Stalmbosch, batis.

spk_0 And I was staying at the courses and I was like, I suppose I need to study because, you

spk_0 know, I don't see where I'm going to fit into this rugby culture.

spk_0 But just to give background, it's cool.

spk_0 I was always playing rugby.

spk_0 I was pretty much every 10 rugby, cricket and football.

spk_0 And I was a 8 boy of my school.

spk_0

spk_0 So I put the Stalmbosch with a little bit of a, you know, a CV.

spk_0 And I thought to myself, but now I'm in this big town where I have to make things work

spk_0 for myself.

spk_0 And then I was playing for my courses in the third league.

spk_0 And thankfully on that specific day, there was an uncle called onchami jengelsen.

spk_0 He was like a, like a dock raven.

spk_0 He went to every, that'd been match, been played before the season started.

spk_0 And he picked me up.

spk_0 I was playing, you know, with a lot of soccer guys just trying to play against, I think

spk_0 it was a hismari and we got club 75 and I scored the only try.

spk_0 OK.

spk_0 But onchami got me, he selected me and he got me out of it and he put me into the martis

spk_0 on a 19 F team.

spk_0 So I made the under 19 F team to go play 12s.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So it almost happened by default that onchami xd came to our courses to come and watch

spk_0 me.

spk_0 The courses was called golf fields.

spk_0 It's still there.

spk_0 And it's normally a academic courses where guys like Simon's Berg, Dachbriak, Aismari,

spk_0 those are rugby, like pure rugby courses.

spk_0 And so I made it F team in Rasmussen.

spk_0 And then I, you know, worked my way up and I think within the first year, you know, I

spk_0 always scored lots of tries.

spk_0 But obviously being small, I needed to work on my physique and stuff like that.

spk_0 But it's the first time I went into a gym when I was 18 years old.

spk_0 Is that a wash?

spk_0 And then I actually kind of liked it.

spk_0 And then I knew that because I'm small with all these big guys next to me, I needed to

spk_0 work on my physique.

spk_0 But I was just enjoying it at the moment because making the under 19 F martis side for me was

spk_0 a massive achievement.

spk_0 It was massive.

spk_0 And then things started to happen and it happened quickly, you know, really quickly and

spk_0 fast for me.

spk_0 But also knowing that at the time when the likes of a Chester Williams, you know, was

spk_0 still playing and here I was, you know, from the farm, not knowing what was coming my way.

spk_0 And I soon realized that, you know, maybe at some point, you know, the Western province

spk_0 and those guys will look at me.

spk_0 And so I realized very, very fast that, you know, I'm in this game now and I want to enjoy

spk_0 it.

spk_0 But then I realized what guys like Chester Williams and Tina Slendee and those guys had

spk_0 done before me.

spk_0 And within my second year, I made the martis 18.

spk_0 You know, I was playing fly at the time.

spk_0 And then I was selected for Western.

spk_0 Under 21 or senior for the senior team.

spk_0 The martis senior team.

spk_0 And then things happened for us.

spk_0 And you know, the media started writing about this little guy, you know, but at the time

spk_0 as well, people were talking about, you know, go to players and here I was just trying

spk_0 to play rugby for my country and play rugby for martis and Western province.

spk_0 But then I realized that at the time, you know, being a player of color wasn't that easy.

spk_0 There's other sort of dynamics that plays a role before you can make it to the top.

spk_0 And in Jesus' I couldn't even speak a word of English at the time.

spk_0 So there was a difficult lesson to do now.

spk_0 Wonderful.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And then things sort of escalated pretty quickly for me, Russ.

spk_0 In at the time, I was so small.

spk_0 And the media said, no, this guy won't make it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 This guy won't make it.

spk_0 But deep down, I, inside, I hang on to believing in myself and know that my farming community,

spk_0 the whole co-book of hell are behind me and not to prove a point.

spk_0 But just to be the best version of myself and create a better life for myself to inspire

spk_0 those kids from the farm to say they're the way, you know, Brady is busy or something special.

spk_0 We can also do it.

spk_0 Because the way we come from, you know, there was, I mean, obviously there's a lot of poverty.

spk_0 And the farmers try their best to make life better for the farming communities.

spk_0 And today it's unbelievable.

spk_0 It's so much better when I go back to the farm and find my soul again.

spk_0 I can see the improvement that all the farmers have done for their farm workers.

spk_0 So it's not just being playing about rugby and making a difference.

spk_0 But I think it's staying true to your course in no way you, on your way to, to make a difference

spk_0 in those kids' life to make sure that they also want to become,

spk_0 they don't have to become springbox or, you know, sports stars,

spk_0 but become somebody in life than rather than just working on a farm.

spk_0 And I think that was my inspiration over the years where I didn't want to disappoint my farming community

spk_0 and Mr. Dwayne and my mom.

spk_0 Mr. Dwayne still alive?

spk_0 Yeah, Mr. Charlotte Dwayne.

spk_0 Yeah, I'm a wonderful, I'll say thank you to him.

spk_0 Because I just see everybody, you need a chance.

spk_0 You need somebody to back you, somebody to believe in you.

spk_0 But, Bridget, just before we're off to the university, at school, I know you were 100 meter athlete.

spk_0

spk_0 200 meter athlete.

spk_0 I saw your foster time was 10-8.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 Okay, so, did you guys stay on the farm?

spk_0 Your mom and dad were farm workers, your family.

spk_0 And then, you know, you always hear about like, I like, was to run on the farm.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But, if you take you, I mean, obviously it's in your genes, it's natural, but I want to actually get to something that you've upland told me, that changed my mind totally.

spk_0 But, certainly also living on the farm, playing soccer and having all of that speed and, yeah.

spk_0 But, so, I think farm work in other sense also developed in that farm work, staying on a farm and being in a farm community.

spk_0 That must have helped for your rugby or not.

spk_0 I think, Russ, staying on a farm gives me toughness.

spk_0 I mean, our small.

spk_0 So, against all odds, I had to fight all these big men, you know, on a rugby field and obviously trying to get to the top.

spk_0 It wasn't easy.

spk_0 So, even when I got to Stelonbos University, when I had to tackle these big guys, I knew that I had to work on my physique to be stronger, you know, to be able to take those hits and those physical confrontations.

spk_0 But, as farm boys, Russ, on a Sunday after church, you know, we were 20 of us, we went to the mountains, we went hiking, we went to look for snakes in Kochumannos, I don't know what English word is.

spk_0 I don't think there is any way.

spk_0 We went to go chase the snakes in Kochumannos and we tried and chase them.

spk_0 I mean, you know, that toughness, you can't explain to people by growing up on a farm how tough you can get because sometimes it's about survival.

spk_0 It's about making sure that, you know, what you're eating next week because sometimes when the family is not there, you need to survive on your own.

spk_0 And so, we went fishing, we went swimming in the dams.

spk_0 So, we did all stuff that farm boys and girls did when I was growing up and I wouldn't change it for the world Russ.

spk_0 And I think that toughness, and through all my life, whenever I had to face adversities or mess of challenges,

spk_0 I thought about my farm life and how I survived with sometimes little food or just little stuff.

spk_0 We went blessed, that privilege to weigh, you know, name brands, for instance.

spk_0 So, we were happy with the little way we had because sometimes the farming communities as well, you know,

spk_0 Tani Sani will give sugar to Tani Seta and vice versa.

spk_0 So, it's a very loving community way, the farm community look after each other.

spk_0 And when the farm team, where I say, I remember my farm team was called love deals.

spk_0 When they played on the Saturday against another farm, I mean, the whole farming community go in scream and go crazy.

spk_0 It was like a highlight of the week for them.

spk_0 And they too, it was beautiful and it's those little moments, I think,

spk_0 it also prepped you for the world as a farm boy.

spk_0 I was really privileged, you know, being sponsored by Mr. Datoeyer, been given the opportunity to go further in life.

spk_0 But I think that toughness of having to survive at times and the most difficult ways or crucial ways made you tough.

spk_0 So, I was never really scared of big guys, you know.

spk_0 But I mean, at the end of the day, it's you that almost like rage owned destiny and don't let it,

spk_0 almost don't let people to track you from getting to your end goal.

spk_0 And you certainly had to do that.

spk_0 But the televery deep part in your career, that tag was always there.

spk_0 Tell me, interesting, if you grew up in the farm, when was the first time you remember when you were boots, Raspi talks,

spk_0 or was it at school or high school, can you remember?

spk_0 Yes, Russ, it was the first time it was in these days, I mean, these days is great.

spk_0 I mean, those days it was, I think, standard eight, you know, I need to get a pair of boots.

spk_0 And before that again, we had a school where we didn't even grasp on the field.

spk_0 You know, it was a...

spk_0 Grond, Grond, Grond, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 So we had to play in the sand.

spk_0 So it was standard eight when I finally got a pair of boots,

spk_0 where the apple must have the two as well, you know, because it wasn't always difficult.

spk_0 Some boys had boots and some way to play bayfrey.

spk_0 But I think the love for the sport, and especially Raspi, even now when you go to the Bocco Fjall,

spk_0 that would be, is absolutely people love it.

spk_0 It's almost like religion, you know, people really...

spk_0 Sundays in the church, the...

spk_0 The pneumonia will always talk about...

spk_0 You're still his game, you know?

spk_0 It was the promised one or the bulls one.

spk_0 So it is such an integral part of the farming community, and that's what I appreciate as well.

spk_0 But everything said that, my first pair of boots are going to stay on the eight.

spk_0 Yeah, I'll tell you raspi every time after training, or after playing a game,

spk_0 I'm going to the police and then wander and leave my bed.

spk_0 And I mean, that's a beauty.

spk_0 And I'm so glad actually today where, you know,

spk_0 late in life, I got sponsored by all his name brands

spk_0 and I was so privileged.

spk_0 And every time, even up till my last game,

spk_0 I still police because, you know,

spk_0 you can't have going out on a field and have dirty boots.

spk_0 Oh, so yeah, that's always like a superstitious thing.

spk_0 I have to polish it myself.

spk_0 Pretty, but so you didn't play Kravinwik,

spk_0 or did you?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 No, Rass.

spk_0 Unfortunately, because of, you know,

spk_0 we are a little bit isolated in the Boko field.

spk_0 In fact, one day you must come to me to the farm, eh?

spk_0 Let's go and have a coffee with the Tannis.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 They'd love to have you.

spk_0 Your mom was.

spk_0 My mom was.

spk_0 She was.

spk_0 Tanniseta.

spk_0 She wouldn't have made you good Briani.

spk_0 I took talks in the London one day to the farm.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And he ate five plates of Briani of Tanniseta.

spk_0 Oh, yeah.

spk_0 You can ask him when you see him again.

spk_0 I'll go.

spk_0 But, but, yeah, Rass,

spk_0 eh, I tell you, man, you know, the background.

spk_0 I think everybody's got a background.

spk_0 And that's why it was so beautiful when I,

spk_0 when I also watched, you know, intensely,

spk_0 the racist son, how you guys brought out the beautiful stories of,

spk_0 of some of your team players in the team.

spk_0 And I think sometimes, you know,

spk_0 it's easy for people to, to, to show fingers and,

spk_0 and have perceptions of, of people.

spk_0 But I think when, once people tell their stories,

spk_0 you have a different view of that person.

spk_0 And I think it's our efficiency.

spk_0 We are quick to, to, you know, jump on bandwagens and,

spk_0 and go with the masses.

spk_0 But I think first, first of all, my lesson would be,

spk_0 or my advice would be, first take a step back,

spk_0 see where there's guys, guys from, and why he's doing that.

spk_0 You know, I'm always want to believe that,

spk_0 you don't just form opinions or perceptions of people.

spk_0 First, get the person's story and,

spk_0 and understand why X in a way that he does.

spk_0 Yeah, it's very, it's very through our watch's last night.

spk_0 And look, I think it's a, it's a common thing that, you know,

spk_0 if you've part of a certain community,

spk_0 you want to see those people doing well.

spk_0 And sometimes when some of you people are not represented

spk_0 or they don't make it, it's like, you know,

spk_0 when Western problems do well,

spk_0 and there's not a lot of, not enough Western problems players

spk_0 in a Springbok team, or you're from a town like the Spetson,

spk_0 nobody makes it into the Brawens team.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I was last thing last night, the highlights of like,

spk_0 the 100 meters and the fire.

spk_0 And, and the way we went gold in both, you know,

spk_0 and I was thinking immediately, it's South African.

spk_0 I'm so happy, I'm so proud.

spk_0 And, and I think that boils down to your town, your school.

spk_0 And sometimes you get upset when people don't get opportunities

spk_0 and they don't make it.

spk_0 And, and then you almost cry.

spk_0 A lot of that I watched it and I was so emotional when I saw those,

spk_0 those, those guys,

spk_0 I don't know, I don't know, they're,

spk_0 I can use some money.

spk_0 Yeah, I, I, I, I, I, something was amazing to watch.

spk_0 But taking it from there,

spk_0 okay, so you didn't play it right in a week.

spk_0 I think sometimes people think,

spk_0 people are nervous to talk about, about things.

spk_0 And I'm not talking political,

spk_0 so we, you know, us, we don't want to get into political stuff.

spk_0 When I was in Ireland,

spk_0 I once said, you know, our color player,

spk_0 you know, I can't say colored.

spk_0 And I said, what do you mean you can't say colored?

spk_0 No, no, you can't, that's, that's what I like to do.

spk_0 I said, no, but we've got color people in South Africa.

spk_0 And the guy said to me, you can't say,

spk_0 I thought, no, I mean, we must come to South Africa and see.

spk_0 They are such special people.

spk_0 And I, and I think probably,

spk_0 and you can perfect tell me a few things about this.

spk_0 The colored community always South Africa,

spk_0 but I guess especially the Cape Towns,

spk_0 people I would never remember Newlands,

spk_0 they were said, front row there.

spk_0 And you can, you know, or, you know, they could,

spk_0 they could, they could like, they could chirp you up.

spk_0 I mean, first, you don't have the biggest coughs in the world.

spk_0 And whenever we played as you would run out, it would be,

spk_0 I, it has to be a little bit of a part of the gig,

spk_0 but it's such a unique, it's unique.

spk_0 And again, if you, there's form boys coming,

spk_0 and then there's guys from Belaar and from Tiger Bird.

spk_0 And, yeah, and it's great to see that sense then,

spk_0 when, you know, I think you and Chester Woolberg,

spk_0 you see, I don't know, guys who probably set the way for the other guys.

spk_0 And then guys like, as when come, maybe a different background.

spk_0 You know, nowadays guys like Chisholun, Gertli.

spk_0 Now you get big guys like Cain and Moody.

spk_0 You know, they were Scuntan, David's the lock.

spk_0 So, you know, it's, it's, I think it's a lucky,

spk_0 it's lucky to talk about, because we've all heard,

spk_0 we know a former, we know, you know,

spk_0 Cia Cullise, you know, my pimpy.

spk_0 But getting stuff like, you know, like, so after that,

spk_0 you went and you went to the last, you didn't like it.

spk_0 And then, when, after Stella Bors, when was your first, first break?

spk_0 Where? Yeah. Was it Western Provers?

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 Obviously, after, when I started playing World for Martis,

spk_0 you know, because Martis is an institution that,

spk_0 when you play for them or get an opportunity,

spk_0 you know, you get seen a little bit.

spk_0 And then, I remember the time, Ellen Zondach was the coach for Western Provers.

spk_0 Yeah. And in my second year, Ellen called me and said,

spk_0 Brady, man, I see you've been scoring tries every week and week out.

spk_0 I want to get you in the team, but there's no space,

spk_0 because at the time Louis Cun was the number 10 for us.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Western Provence, yeah.

spk_0 And I said, Ellen, I play anyway, I even play Wuker,

spk_0 if you want to give, I would love to play with the Western Provence team.

spk_0 But did you play 10 then?

spk_0 I played 10, yeah, for Martis, I played 10 for Martis.

spk_0 So I never even was a wing, you know, I never even was a wing.

spk_0 And then Ellen said, okay, cool.

spk_0 You know, somebody got injured and then he got me into the,

spk_0 into the Provence team.

spk_0 It at 19 years old, yeah, made me debut for Western Provence.

spk_0 On a very cold Friday night in Blackpun against the Falcons.

spk_0 That was three tries.

spk_0 Score three tries, yeah.

spk_0 So there was a, there was a massive moment for me in my,

spk_0 in for my community, obviously.

spk_0 And I thought to myself, man, you know, my job was done now.

spk_0 I, I don't want to, I don't even care if I become a springboard or not,

spk_0 but just to, to put the Western Provence jersey at the time

spk_0 over my head was such an amazing achievement for me.

spk_0 But then obviously it was a start of lots of things to come.

spk_0 And sometimes in life, I think, you know,

spk_0 you don't know how your path is great for you.

spk_0 And, but that night was such a special night for me.

spk_0 I scored three tries on my debut as well for Western Provence.

spk_0 And then things started to articulate.

spk_0 And, but again, you know, the media was still saying,

spk_0 I don't know, there's guys too small.

spk_0 They take, they take, what's for us there with me?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah, I think we might try a little bit later about,

spk_0 yeah, because a big principle of the way I like to coach is because,

spk_0 I mean, you four years younger than you, you're 48 now.

spk_0 48.

spk_0 So we more than exactly the same year because you started so young,

spk_0 19.

spk_0 And I don't know how many taste matches we did play together.

spk_0 But they certainly because of people would say,

spk_0 I think was quote us.

spk_0 People would call the guy, and I just realized through those years that

spk_0 calling a guy a quota, nobody wins.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because the white boy feels, you know, I'm left out because of quota.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And the player of color feel, I'm in there because I'm a quota.

spk_0 So it was me probably the wording was, you know, I mean,

spk_0 and it's such a bad thing.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You always, I mean, you played 64 taste matches.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And some people at 50 taste matches still called you a quota player,

spk_0 but you scored 20 water rice.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So true, true.

spk_0 And I think, you know, that's a stigma that unfortunately I had to

spk_0 jolt with throughout my career.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And, and, you know, I said to somebody like when that word started,

spk_0 you know, ever created that word, that person should be,

spk_0 we shouldn't be, we shouldn't be banning for the country.

spk_0 But unfortunately, it became a word way.

spk_0 I think it was an easy way out for a lot of people.

spk_0 You know, when I had a bad game, no, there's quota player,

spk_0 you know, it shouldn't have been in the team and all the kind of stuff.

spk_0 So to a certain extent, you know, me and guys like Justin and Tina Z to fight

spk_0 that battle of the field many times to try and explain that, you know,

spk_0 nobody's quota players.

spk_0 And I always said the day, even before when that word started,

spk_0 but the day before I made my debut, I sat in the media guys.

spk_0 I know there's the stigma of quota, but if any coach picked me,

spk_0 the day for the spring box, I want to play because I'm there on merit

spk_0 because I deserve to start from my country.

spk_0 And because I work hard to get to this level.

spk_0 And also, as you know, we've traveled, you know, all over the world,

spk_0 we were blessed in many ways that we had to go,

spk_0 obviously, face a media many times.

spk_0 And many a time, you know, I also had to face a media where they asked you,

spk_0 so Brady was going on in your country and that was the last thing I wanted to talk about,

spk_0 you know, the political stuff.

spk_0 And it was said, but you know what, when I look at, you know, your team now,

spk_0 or our team now in South Africa, and I saw the demographics,

spk_0 it meant that I was put there for a reason.

spk_0 And so it was just the Williams as well.

spk_0 And I need to tell the story to you, and I don't think many people know about even this,

spk_0 you know, I don't really share it.

spk_0 I have shared it the other day when I was doing a talk at a corporate,

spk_0 but I think there was one, like early in my career with the box,

spk_0 we were in Wales, and there was also big controversy because the spring box

spk_0 weren't fast-tracking players of colour into the team.

spk_0 And we were forever getting these questions.

spk_0 And that me and Chester were actually rumored on that tone,

spk_0 and we were talking that night, the media was on our case,

spk_0 and it was more political week than anything else.

spk_0 And then, and then Chester actually asked him a question that night,

spk_0 before we went to bed, Rass and I said to him, Chissey, my man,

spk_0 how do we deal with this?

spk_0 Because from me, it's getting difficult now.

spk_0 I want to play for my country, and I want to stop answering these political questions.

spk_0 And he said to me, Brady, you know what?

spk_0 It's not about us now.

spk_0 You make sure you continue until you can't know more,

spk_0 because in 20 years time,

spk_0 it will be much better for the boys playing like we know.

spk_0 And you know where Rass, when you guys went out,

spk_0 20 years later, 25 years later,

spk_0 against, you know, in Japan, I actually flew over for that game,

spk_0 and I went to come and watch it, and I was in the stands,

spk_0 and I had a moment.

spk_0 I had a moment because, and I thought about Chester said to me that time,

spk_0 if I stopped, who knew, or who knows,

spk_0 who would have been the next Chester Williams,

spk_0 or whoever it might be, or see another meme.

spk_0 And those kind of moments, you can't explain to people,

spk_0 but that was a moment for me when I saw Sia and Chesey,

spk_0 and all these guys running out for you,

spk_0 and beat England, or whoop the asses against all odds in that final.

spk_0 That to me was a moment.

spk_0 It was almost me like, wow, you know, job done almost.

spk_0 And we as our Africans, you know,

spk_0 we fought a lot of battles all the time,

spk_0 but I think a story like that,

spk_0 who inspired me, Chester Williams,

spk_0 a late-grade Chester Williams, a maisal-reston peace.

spk_0 You know, I could have, I could have given him,

spk_0 because I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't ready really to go on with this political stuff.

spk_0 I just wanted to play rugby,

spk_0 but Chester Williams changed my mind

spk_0 that day before he went to bed,

spk_0 and the rest of the history lasted.

spk_0 You know, so I'm very happy about that.

spk_0 Well, that's all I'm sorry.

spk_0 And you know, I want to put this both ways,

spk_0 because this is a, I think, it's nice information for the people,

spk_0 because I don't always think,

spk_0 and I think we want to talk about how wrong things was.

spk_0 I could just talk about how difficult it was.

spk_0 How difficult it was.

spk_0 We need to learn from that.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, so, so if you take,

spk_0 I mean, those days,

spk_0 you're up in motor,

spk_0 under kilogram,

spk_0 Dean, all you play against,

spk_0 under the four kilograms.

spk_0 I mean, when you went to Klemont,

spk_0 that Drusier Rie was under the six kilograms.

spk_0 So, and then everybody in those days,

spk_0 and I'll give up on change my mind on this,

spk_0 I coached in Cheetah's,

spk_0 Brunfontein, Africans, white, Christian, very easy.

spk_0 They're all the same, you know,

spk_0 but we got a bomb of Flures in,

spk_0 started to understand a little bit more,

spk_0 and we got given for training.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 I got to understand a little bit more.

spk_0 What is the other ex,

spk_0 it's a, it's a,

spk_0 it's an, it's an,

spk_0 as well as a reference,

spk_0 and, but then I got,

spk_0 okay, so it was actually easy to coach in Bluffin.

spk_0 And coach, you know,

spk_0 everybody was like the same.

spk_0 So I thought the same,

spk_0 same mannerism.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Don't know what's the base word in English.

spk_0 Then I got to Cape Town.

spk_0 And yes, it was for me.

spk_0 I opened it.

spk_0 They were, I don't think it's more than 90 clubs here.

spk_0 Uh, and, you know,

spk_0 I remember one of the first council meetings,

spk_0 all the presidents was sitting there,

spk_0 now you had to like,

spk_0 answer to all the presidents.

spk_0 And, and then we've in Cape Town,

spk_0 you had Tigerburg and you had,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 with Muslim club.

spk_0 I'm a rapper.

spk_0 We've been clubbing, yeah.

spk_0 So it was a lot of things for me also to learn.

spk_0 But,

spk_0 when the,

spk_0 a mean kid up on set and chatted,

spk_0 because, you know,

spk_0 not a stich,

spk_0 but almost like a belief.

spk_0 And people repeated all the time,

spk_0 then people believe it.

spk_0 And they said,

spk_0 no, but it was in a color,

spk_0 boys jeans to play wing.

spk_0 Uh, and I, I also said it

spk_0 because it was you and Jess,

spk_0 there are most of the guys play doing.

spk_0

spk_0 Uh, but, and they said,

spk_0 they weren't really big color boys.

spk_0 And that's okay.

spk_0 Yeah, that, that's true.

spk_0 But then me and Chiu were a chat and Chiu said,

spk_0 and I said to him,

spk_0 but why do they all play wing?

spk_0 And he said,

spk_0 listen, if you give the guys like you guys on the form

spk_0 or, you know,

spk_0 in, in,

spk_0 uh, you know,

spk_0 wherever in the township or,

spk_0 uh,

spk_0 ever play the end,

spk_0 a couple of boys over ball.

spk_0 And they're going to play that.

spk_0 So, rugby and they only got a ball and there's no field

spk_0 and there's no polls for kicking polls and there's,

spk_0 what are they going to learn?

spk_0 Heart to side step,

spk_0 heart to chip,

spk_0 heart to goosewalk,

spk_0 heart to go skip bars and that's everything that the wing is.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So nobody,

spk_0 if you don't have access to

spk_0 how to scram or to support in a line out,

spk_0 how to clean out in a rock,

spk_0 the furthest thing away from all of those mechanical things.

spk_0 I've been calling that as wing.

spk_0 It's wing.

spk_0 And he explained it to me like that.

spk_0 And I thought, okay, you know, this makes sense.

spk_0 Let's get some,

spk_0 that's where we started that EPD program.

spk_0 School of getting guys out to scram and then you got it.

spk_0 Andrew said, came through you.

spk_0 They went and they were massive.

spk_0 Law more than played.

spk_0 I mean, they'll send them was an absolute,

spk_0 astronaut was big.

spk_0 Okay, look at Kainen.

spk_0 So it's definitely was, they've not the gym thing.

spk_0 It was the existing.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It was getting resources and access because you,

spk_0 so fly off.

spk_0 Then when you left foot that I was left with you with a left foot.

spk_0 I have a coach who kicked the boys.

spk_0 Sometimes you keep for kick touch also for as well.

spk_0 Like for the post format is as well.

spk_0 Yeah, okay.

spk_0 So, so the, so the hero, yeah,

spk_0 hero makes a very good point.

spk_0 You know, and it was almost,

spk_0 it almost came natural natural to the killer.

spk_0 The killer, the killer boys, especially like on the farms or on the Cape Flets.

spk_0 Because they had this natural gift.

spk_0 If you look at the, the history, you know,

spk_0 especially of the colored clubs, you know, around Cape Town,

spk_0 all of them could step and it's speed and can go step.

spk_0 So, so, yeah, naturally, like he said,

spk_0 they would beat the guys in the wing.

spk_0 But it's also good to see that it's tick-mo.

spk_0 It's also sort of somehow fading.

spk_0 That's because you know, they are some big boys like Quinton.

spk_0 They was playing with me as well and he was a, he was a character.

spk_0 He was a character.

spk_0 He was brutal.

spk_0 He was honest, but he also was a good team.

spk_0 He was a really hard guy and it's a pity that he played in that era.

spk_0 You know, he played in the era where he was playing while he was holding his own.

spk_0 But I think he played with him when guys like Pakistan,

spk_0 but he played, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 But, but, but, but, but, but, but, Quinton again, in my opinion,

spk_0 you know, I would go to war with him any day.

spk_0 We actually are assigning with the cheetahs.

spk_0 He played season two for us.

spk_0 I could see the cheetahs.

spk_0 So I know Quinton was pretty well.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So moving on, then your first stage match was one in Italy.

spk_0 I had games in Italy and B.

spk_0 Yeah, I remember that one.

spk_0 It was a lot of my dispatch crews.

spk_0 It was being a good, yeah, I was just going to drive it.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 You're, you're driving almost, but it's, it's 26 tries.

spk_0 26 tries.

spk_0 26 tries in 64.

spk_0 64.

spk_0 That's a pretty good start, right?

spk_0 But you're, you're trying scoring for Western Provinces,

spk_0 almost a try every second game.

spk_0 A second game, yeah, like, yeah, for Western Provinces,

spk_0 I was, I was calling, I think 71, 70 tries and 71 games.

spk_0 Yeah, so that was quite a good, I think, good track.

spk_0 How many games did you play for them?

spk_0 Western Provinces.

spk_0 I played, yeah, I played 71, but obviously then the storm was

spk_0 game, so I think up for the stormers, I also played like 65, 70,

spk_0 you know, it was in the time when obviously super at became

spk_0 and it was, you combined it.

spk_0 Yeah, you combine it.

spk_0 It was more than 100, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 So, but I must say that obviously playing for the box at the

spk_0 time, you know, a conservative we were, you know, and I was

spk_0 always like fighting for the ball.

spk_0 In, in, in fact, sometimes I ran to, we, we used to get the ball,

spk_0 I used to go, hit some ball in the rock and run, you know,

spk_0 because I remember the time we were, we were quite conservative.

spk_0 Yeah, it was very direct.

spk_0 It was very direct.

spk_0 It's funny also, a lot of people love to say this guy is

spk_0 too small.

spk_0 I mean, Chaslin at that tech, Kurti probably had a tech, you

spk_0 probably had that, but a lot of guys, but if you actually go and

spk_0 say a guy is too small, then you must say too small for what?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Doesn't he tech?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Or can't he get over that bondage line?

spk_0 Coach Chaslin, you've seen Chaslin.

spk_0 He bumps guys, steps guys, he, he stands his ground on defense,

spk_0 curtly does the same.

spk_0 So, that was also something because it was, it was almost an

spk_0 easy thing to say.

spk_0 Even I'm talking of small white boys as well.

spk_0 Clither was small was playing number nine, in of the story.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 And that certainly some guys broke their down and you get guys

spk_0 now consistently.

spk_0 And I think they might be a surprise as well of one of the guys

spk_0 because we tracking, trying to track from Boston,

spk_0 going right through to, you know, to the top level.

spk_0 There's, there's James like you in all community, all

spk_0 communities which, you know, when you see him there, you think

spk_0 this guy's got something special.

spk_0 I can't do it at a match level, but even given the chance

spk_0 out of that, I would, I would, I would even know.

spk_0 So, the matches we play together.

spk_0 So you, okay, there's a few that I'm not, not nice to say,

spk_0 but the first category of final I played lost against you.

spk_0 You played in 97.

spk_0 So you won that category, you won three.

spk_0 Three, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah, I lost the one against the booze.

spk_0 Remember that, they're one that talked about one way.

spk_0 I passed, just passed to me in Andre Watson City was forward.

spk_0 Remember that one that we lost in the last minute almost.

spk_0 Yeah, I remember the Chita once better than we lost.

spk_0 I don't remember all the, so you also, you sweeped one

spk_0 in the Alkhart post, you know, that's from like against you.

spk_0 Yeah, that's the fourth pass.

spk_0 And I was the fourth.

spk_0 So you, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 So, the three, well, two categories of three.

spk_0 Yeah, three, three, three, three, three, three, three,

spk_0 three categories, three categories, three categories, one, one, one,

spk_0 Yeah, that's like, yeah, that's all that.

spk_0 I mean, those days, you know, our tough, it was to win a curry cup.

spk_0 No, it was.

spk_0 I mean, how much but, uh, one nine curry cups, it's beyond me.

spk_0 It is absolutely even guys like Berger, Berger, Galdanise.

spk_0 Berger Galdanise like lemon curry cups finals.

spk_0 Yeah, I'm there was this golden year off, we're some province.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 They won four in a row.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 They're all blowing those guys there.

spk_0 Actually, there's, there's, I think, if Nars is keen,

spk_0 one day we must have Nars, so on the four.

spk_0 Yeah, from 18 years on, but I mean, yeah, we'll get to that.

spk_0 So, but springboard coaches, I know which springboard coaches

spk_0 that you play.

spk_0 So my first springboard coach was Andrej Marcloff.

spk_0 You know, he took me with to Argentina.

spk_0 I went to tour with the boys in Argentina.

spk_0 There was quite a nice one.

spk_0 I played against the Argent, we were the, the, the, the, the,

spk_0 the track of the B side when I made my debut.

spk_0 And we played 96, yeah.

spk_0 And we played, were you there on the Taurus?

spk_0 I was there.

spk_0 I was then picked between Skutter back in the engine in France.

spk_0 And I was over.

spk_0 You flew over, you could have played that, but very, that midweek

spk_0 game.

spk_0 Yeah, that midweek game.

spk_0 Yeah, very, yeah.

spk_0 So I played my first game for the dirt trackers midweek in Rosario.

spk_0 I also scored four tries on that, that game.

spk_0 So it was my first debut.

spk_0 Obviously, I had to wait.

spk_0 And then after Andrej Marcloff, Nick Mellett came.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Yeah, and Nick, Nick eventually picked me.

spk_0 It's the either way long man.

spk_0 And Nick made me fake and carry bags for two years.

spk_0 You know, I'm difficult in this.

spk_0 You'll see it.

spk_0 It is hot, you know, because Nick also, I think Nick liked the, the

spk_0 bigger guys as well.

spk_0 But I was calling tries and super rugby.

spk_0 So, you know, the pressure was mounting on to him.

spk_0

spk_0 So I was to wings then that you compete with.

spk_0 It was good wings.

spk_0 It was a, Peter so Stefan Teblans.

spk_0 I mean, it was, it was good wings.

spk_0 You know, it was good wings.

spk_0 Justin Swat was there as well.

spk_0 Percy Flecky, that, that era.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But I mean, you know, but sometimes, you know, I'll first

spk_0 be straightening it can get to a year after you just go with the

spk_0 boys, you don't get a chance, you know.

spk_0 12-tack of eggs.

spk_0 No, it's tough.

spk_0 And some of the guys still have to do it now.

spk_0 I'm thinking ice-like John looked at pre-announced guys.

spk_0 They've probably toured and been in camp for so much.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But the guys were hanging, they make it eventually and 64-test

spk_0 with the latest.

spk_0 You know, it's worth the, yeah, worth the wait.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, but as a spring book, you, you want to try nations?

spk_0 Nations with Jack White, yeah, in 2004.

spk_0 But obviously before, before, after Nick Rudolfs Lali came,

spk_0 you know, and you went through, you know,

spk_0 stuff, stuff, stuff.

spk_0 Okay, we know that was about that.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, thank you.

spk_0 You know, you went through it.

spk_0 It was tough.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 It was tough.

spk_0 But again, I think, you know, I don't mind speaking about the

spk_0 difficult times because I think I always say if we can learn

spk_0 from something like that, where,

spk_0 uh, shame.

spk_0 I mean, just quickly, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I do.

spk_0 I won't traumatize people with what we've done.

spk_0 They, most people know what happened and all it kind of stuff.

spk_0 But I mean, at some point, we had to box each other, you know,

spk_0 and I had to box against Derek Ochart.

spk_0 And I mean, Rashi coming from a farm, I mean, you know,

spk_0 we know how to play the couple of things, you know,

spk_0 and shame.

spk_0 And thankfully, when we in Derek Fort, I hit him on a sport

spk_0 we almost passed out.

spk_0 And then they stopped it.

spk_0 So the other guys were spayed.

spk_0 But I'm fine for eating each other, you know.

spk_0 I'm sure you don't know what mine means, like this.

spk_0 But again, we need to learn from this kind of stuff and need

spk_0 us to say we went to the World Cup in 2003 in Australia and,

spk_0 and she's the team was so split, you know, they were clicks.

spk_0 The morale was low.

spk_0 It was Quentin and, you know, he'll come years while at a,

spk_0 at a mess head before it was just a mess.

spk_0 So, so, you know, we, again, we need to tell these things

spk_0 because people must learn from it and we don't make the same mistakes.

spk_0 No, not true.

spk_0 I had a funny story.

spk_0 I don't know if it's true.

spk_0 I know Leakun very well.

spk_0 We played with Leakun.

spk_0 You know, he worked at SRRQ, he started performance manager there.

spk_0 Yes, so hard to work.

spk_0 And, you know, it's a professional, a lucky player.

spk_0 I mean, there was probably not a guarded worked out on his kicking

spk_0 game and passing and everything.

spk_0 But you must tell me this is true.

spk_0 I'm not even allowed to say this.

spk_0 Apparently, even though you're so active boxed in the thing you don't

spk_0 have to use the answer to this.

spk_0 But you know, Louis is the Louis.

spk_0 Louis is the very...

spk_0 Yeah, Louis served guy.

spk_0 Probably a proper good guy.

spk_0 I mean, I see his life he's also doing well, and I've been now fantastic.

spk_0 And so, I think, Dany herself and they've been in there

spk_0 other really gonna box and this thing and apparently Dany.

spk_0 And all that Louis, when you do something I say, I say,

spk_0 I'm off.

spk_0 I said, I'm off, when you're off.

spk_0 I can confirm.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But does everybody, the everybody battle was between

spk_0 a tennis in Venachryv.

spk_0 A tennis doubt?

spk_0 Tennis doubt for the others.

spk_0 This did was anyway battle, man.

spk_0 Because, you know, guys were starting slow.

spk_0 There's two top guys.

spk_0 And then Dofi said, no, no, no, no, boys.

spk_0 No, no, no, no, we can't have this.

spk_0 We're not gonna win a World Cup like this.

spk_0 And then it was like, oh my word, this job will come in, you know?

spk_0 Yeah, it's great.

spk_0 I think tennis doubt probably was an opera.

spk_0 But he was probably one of the most underrated

spk_0 full-backed in the wings I played with Malco.

spk_0 That guy was three.

spk_0 He was tough as nails there.

spk_0 Yes, he was.

spk_0 And for a big guy, yet you guys, sides,

spk_0 and hand off, I see he's a pundit now.

spk_0 He's a pundit board with his guy, obviously.

spk_0

spk_0 I'm not under since, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah, so yet those were the size guys.

spk_0 The size guys, the head to compete.

spk_0 Okay, so you're in Boston, I'm still around.

spk_0 And then you played 2003, were you,

spk_0 you played at the World Cup?

spk_0 Yeah, we played at the World Cup, yeah.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 And against Georgia, that's when,

spk_0 it's called, it's called Burger Ladies' Day View,

spk_0 you know, the Georgia game.

spk_0 That's when, yeah.

spk_0 But again, we literally lost in the quarters against the Zealand.

spk_0 You didn't play that game, but I mean,

spk_0 the players of the park.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 I remember Lee Koon still kicked that one at goal

spk_0 when the fan was, when we was,

spk_0 Uncle Tapping him.

spk_0 On his second, yeah, too,

spk_0 in World Cup there.

spk_0 What was there?

spk_0 Or maybe for sure, the club he was busy

spk_0 in his stride, and he got there.

spk_0 The supporter.

spk_0 The supporter, yeah.

spk_0 Uncle Tapping, but he still kicked that one.

spk_0 Yeah, there was a moment here.

spk_0 Okay, and then in 2007, you were part of the non,

spk_0 you were, you understand, right?

spk_0 I was part of the squad, understand by a list for,

spk_0 for Jake's white team, before the World Cup.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because obviously Jake, you know, came in in 2004,

spk_0 after we were at a low.

spk_0 It's almost like that was when you came in,

spk_0 and it was, it was dark times, you know, for the spring box.

spk_0 And, and Jake came, I was,

spk_0 I was actually about to retire in 2003 after that World Cup,

spk_0 because then I had enough,

spk_0 and I felt my race was run,

spk_0 but I was still young enough, you know,

spk_0 but I, he was so traumatized by all that happened,

spk_0 and all it kind of stuff.

spk_0 But then Jake called me back, he called Percy Beck,

spk_0 he called Osbek, and then, then,

spk_0 that's when the new, almost generation started,

spk_0 you know, with Jake when he turned things around,

spk_0 and we played, I remember the 2004 in Bloom,

spk_0 we played, yeah, the 2004 against Ireland.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Nobody gave us a chance, you know,

spk_0 and we clubed him in Bloom.

spk_0 You're also right, the triangations were 2000.

spk_0 Yeah, for them.

spk_0 Thank you, and the, yeah, what, we wanted to,

spk_0 or Jake did, yeah.

spk_0 I mean, what Jake did also turn that team around.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 In 2007?

spk_0 In 2007, yeah, obviously, Jake then decided to take a,

spk_0 almost like a, I would say, a B site,

spk_0 due to the transformations, you know,

spk_0 because it was obviously, I think the year before,

spk_0 it was very tough for us, things just went down,

spk_0 and we were in a low moment,

spk_0 and then they flew, they said, I'll be flew Jake back to come back.

spk_0 Oh, and then, remember, remember,

spk_0 yeah.

spk_0 And then he was kicked out,

spk_0 and we, we even, even the game,

spk_0 Razway, we played against England,

spk_0 where Janus Laba's Cachniko, the Red Cup,

spk_0 or there was such a low moment.

spk_0 So then, he said, I'm going to say,

spk_0 now Jake come back, you know,

spk_0 I think we're going to get a new person,

spk_0 and then Jake went back and he presented,

spk_0 and then thankfully, they kept Jake,

spk_0 and obviously, you know, the next year.

spk_0 I need a fantastic job.

spk_0 Yeah, a fantastic job.

spk_0 You have a debt, literally that,

spk_0 that tour before the World Cup,

spk_0 Jake told me, you know, he said,

spk_0 Breité, man, I'm so,

spk_0 I'm so sad, you know, I want to take you to the World Cup,

spk_0 but listen to that.

spk_0 Okay, yeah.

spk_0 But, you've achieved that.

spk_0 I like it.

spk_0 You had a great full, you had a good run.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So when did you retire?

spk_0 I retired in 2007, Raz,

spk_0 yeah, literally just before the World Cup,

spk_0 because I was hoping, you know,

spk_0 I was hoping that, you know,

spk_0 Jake would include me,

spk_0 because I was part of the team from 2004 to 2007,

spk_0 but I obviously was one of the stands,

spk_0 and my guys, and didn't make it.

spk_0 But again, you know, my,

spk_0 I made peace that my race was done,

spk_0 and I did enough, you know,

spk_0 to contribute in my small way

spk_0 to this wonderful batch,

spk_0 which is a spring book,

spk_0 and I wasn't easy with it, you know?

spk_0 So no regrets, no regrets,

spk_0 and I supported the team when they went to World Cup.

spk_0 Yeah, but in 1999,

spk_0 we had to go to World Cup.

spk_0 We played together there as well.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We lost against Australia.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think we played the New Zealand,

spk_0 and as we said,

spk_0 I mean, we beat them in the third and fourth place playoff.

spk_0 So now you had a good run,

spk_0 yeah.

spk_0 You had a good chance of it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And that's probably the message to everybody, man.

spk_0 People sometimes think, you know,

spk_0 Afrikaans guy,

spk_0 I'm not being able to speak English,

spk_0 or a guy that doesn't know how to work

spk_0 a laptop, or play it doesn't know how to,

spk_0 you know, it doesn't understand a game plan,

spk_0 or this guy's coming from a community way, you know,

spk_0 he's shy,

spk_0 or his personality is just formed through the culture we grow up.

spk_0

spk_0 And I think the message is to Afrikaans,

spk_0 Engels, Christian, Muslim,

spk_0 color, black, white boy,

spk_0 is listening, you're going to go through time,

spk_0 you feel uncomfortable,

spk_0 and my,

spk_0 all things are probably,

spk_0 our coaching style,

spk_0 if I can call it that way,

spk_0 that sounds grand, our coaching way is,

spk_0 nobody wants to be in Paris, man.

spk_0 If you, if you always look off the,

spk_0 what you say to a player,

spk_0 if you're not good enough,

spk_0 you don't have to be in Paris,

spk_0 tell him what to work on,

spk_0 and you don't have to explain it,

spk_0 and sometimes think, you know,

spk_0 we're announcing Springbok's Quartz now.

spk_0 We'll speak, sometimes we'll see,

spk_0 people see you must phone every single player,

spk_0 but it's not a right to be a Springbok.

spk_0 Absolutely.

spk_0 But certainly when you sing aloud somebody,

spk_0 you don't have to,

spk_0 embarrass him,

spk_0 and say, X, Y, Z, about the guy.

spk_0 You know, you can quietly tell the guy,

spk_0 if he really wants to know,

spk_0 if he wants to get better.

spk_0 Interesting thing,

spk_0 a guy orders me the other day,

spk_0 and I want you opinion about this,

spk_0 and I don't know how to maybe say this the right way,

spk_0 and maybe I'm going a little bit off,

spk_0 what you were talking about.

spk_0 Now you get players who can do unbelievable things,

spk_0 you know, like Cheshire,

spk_0 like you,

spk_0 like, yes,

spk_0 there's so many Cheshire,

spk_0 Ox, Os, Runt,

spk_0 Malcolm Marks,

spk_0 they can do things that other players can't do,

spk_0 and then everybody thinks that guys,

spk_0 and I'm not talking about the guys that just mentioned,

spk_0 I'm just giving his all.

spk_0 So they can do something,

spk_0 and they score four tries in a game.

spk_0 Those three tries,

spk_0 and again, I never say this guy must be a springboard.

spk_0 But then people, there's two things.

spk_0 One is probably people that know that guy's personality.

spk_0 How easy in a team environment?

spk_0 So you see what he,

spk_0 what his output is,

spk_0 but you don't sometimes see what else he does in a team,

spk_0 there's maybe pulling the team apart,

spk_0 I was at once,

spk_0 they're definitely a player like that,

spk_0 and the second thing is,

spk_0 sometimes a player like that can do things

spk_0 that other players can't do,

spk_0 but he can't do the thing that all other players can do.

spk_0 Pretty, I don't know,

spk_0 I want to talk a little bit about what you're doing now,

spk_0 because I'm just listening to you now,

spk_0 the way you grew up,

spk_0 the way you,

spk_0 what you're doing,

spk_0 I mean, from talks and jobs to super rugby,

spk_0 to being a pundit while the game is on,

spk_0 it looks amazing, man.

spk_0 From the confundor of,

spk_0 in the humour,

spk_0 it's so much a lot of things to compare,

spk_0 in the meantime,

spk_0 they appreciate it,

spk_0 and they also listen to what you're saying,

spk_0 but is there anything in your playing career

spk_0 that you want to highlight still,

spk_0 or ask me?

spk_0 Of course.

spk_0 Yes, yes, yes, you're us.

spk_0 Thanks for that,

spk_0 thanks for the compliment,

spk_0 I really appreciate it,

spk_0 because sometimes we talk a lot of crap too, you know?

spk_0 Or we don't always make sense for the viewer

spk_0 or people watching,

spk_0 because we all know

spk_0 how special this rugby brand of ours is,

spk_0 and we need to continue educating,

spk_0 you know, without getting personal,

spk_0 in my opinion, you know what I'm saying?

spk_0 You know what I'm saying?

spk_0 I actually, in my first year,

spk_0 when I started to make,

spk_0 and this is not a little advice for,

spk_0 especially young boys and girls watching,

spk_0 you know, it's playing rugby,

spk_0 when I started starting to find my feet,

spk_0 it was really difficult at the time,

spk_0 because all those reasons we've mentioned early on,

spk_0 and we gave examples,

spk_0 but, you know, one of my teachers at the school,

spk_0 after my first year,

spk_0 I was just like, wow, I was in, you know,

spk_0 I was in awe,

spk_0 and people now all over the sudden, you know,

spk_0 they stop you for photos and autograres and economic stuff,

spk_0 but when I went to the farm,

spk_0 and as one teacher came to me,

spk_0 and we had a bride with the whole community,

spk_0 you know, and me and him had acquired chat,

spk_0 and I was always looking up to him,

spk_0 and Mr. Hanser, unfortunately,

spk_0 he's not there today anymore as well.

spk_0 And he said to me,

spk_0 a Brady, you know what,

spk_0 I've seen you,

spk_0 and he was one of those, those stuff teachers, you know,

spk_0 almost like a principal.

spk_0 And he said to me, listen, Brades,

spk_0 you know, we see you doing well,

spk_0 and we so appreciative of what you're doing for yourself

spk_0 and to the community,

spk_0 but you have the talent.

spk_0 But if you don't work hard,

spk_0 you won't become anything in life.

spk_0 And that day actually, Russ, I took that away.

spk_0 And I want, with me,

spk_0 throughout my career.

spk_0 So what I'm trying to say is,

spk_0 when talent and hard work meets,

spk_0 it becomes a very stabilizing thing for yourself.

spk_0 You won't just survive on talent alone.

spk_0 Like you said, people like Malcolm Marks,

spk_0 people like, even it's a bit,

spk_0 those kind of guys, they work hard,

spk_0 and people don't see.

spk_0 And I think those other things that young boys and girls

spk_0 must take away,

spk_0 your talent won't get you anyway.

spk_0 And this is saying, Brady,

spk_0 I'm quoting a guy,

spk_0 I'm saying this,

spk_0 when talent meets talent,

spk_0 all the works win.

spk_0 You know, so,

spk_0 if talent versus talent,

spk_0 you know, hard work eventually,

spk_0 and sometimes these guys have less talent.

spk_0 That works harder.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That gets further away.

spk_0 You'll be more easily.

spk_0 So, then you,

spk_0 okay, you went to the Friends France,

spk_0 and you finished your last game 2007,

spk_0 and you never played off that again.

spk_0 No, no, I never played off that again.

spk_0 I must say, the term in France, as well, Russ,

spk_0 was very interesting.

spk_0 You know, the Friends got a different way of doing stuff,

spk_0 you know, like the culture.

spk_0 But I think also it's good for young boys

spk_0 and girls to go and experience it.

spk_0 You know, you become a different person,

spk_0 because now you see other cultures,

spk_0 are they operating?

spk_0 Because we, we actually,

spk_0 in South Africa,

spk_0 we are so used to what we are used to.

spk_0 And sometimes it's good to see, you know,

spk_0 like, with things with different eye,

spk_0 because we just carry on,

spk_0 and we, we have our own challenges in this country,

spk_0 but it's nice if you have the opportunity to go overseas,

spk_0 you know, go and experience other cultures,

spk_0 other people,

spk_0 and then see how they do things.

spk_0 And I've certainly also learned a lot from that.

spk_0 So my two years in Termont was really, really good.

spk_0 And I think also it makes you a better person after all.

spk_0 So in 1999, I want to go back to that.

spk_0 And not much much.

spk_0 When was Harry Fyljoune Springbokke?

spk_0 He was in 2002.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 I feel that's where, you know,

spk_0 not because of Harry,

spk_0 but that's where,

spk_0 we became really tough.

spk_0 We met Mary,

spk_0 Brodyne,

spk_0 I'm trying to fill on to you,

spk_0 saying,

spk_0 I'm experiencing French and New Zealand and Irish, you know,

spk_0 we've got some Irish guys in the setup now,

spk_0 but Harry Fyljoune was actually the first guy,

spk_0 and he got me burn in.

spk_0 He was a, he was a,

spk_0 a, oh, oh, the,

spk_0 was a, was a role.

spk_0 So he could,

spk_0 he could, he could, he could,

spk_0 he could,

spk_0 work a ball of his foot,

spk_0 you know, he was unbelievable.

spk_0 He came in as a kicking coach.

spk_0 He was a means,

spk_0 and then Les, Lesky,

spk_0 Lesky, yes.

spk_0 Yeah, limby,

spk_0 that's a fence guy.

spk_0 He's actually,

spk_0 now Australia's here.

spk_0 So, yeah.

spk_0 And he came in as the rugby league,

spk_0 the fence coach.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I actually felt that's where rugby changed.

spk_0 Absolutely.

spk_0 Because before that,

spk_0 you had thought,

spk_0 you had something to sidestep.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 There was a dog leg here,

spk_0 or was there a slow guy here?

spk_0 And remember they brought in,

spk_0 yeah, yeah.

spk_0 Alignment and spacing,

spk_0 and that's actually where I felt,

spk_0 look at now.

spk_0

spk_0 Now, I'll,

spk_0 a lighter,

spk_0 loose-forwards Australia.

spk_0 And you guys started now getting your footwork.

spk_0 It was going a lot of tries with Harry, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You actually saw,

spk_0 right now that I think about it.

spk_0 Harry was,

spk_0 I still say to people,

spk_0 I think Harry,

spk_0 unfortunately,

spk_0 was way ahead of his time.

spk_0 It's really russy.

spk_0 And I think you can attest to that.

spk_0 Harry was,

spk_0 he was just so intelligent.

spk_0 He was,

spk_0 I think he was

spk_0 10 years ahead

spk_0 of way we should have been.

spk_0 The guys couldn't buy in what he was trying to do.

spk_0 Because obviously it's easy to reflect afterwards.

spk_0 And I insight is much easier.

spk_0 But I just feel that Harry,

spk_0 he brought in the right stuff,

spk_0 but it was too soon

spk_0 for the South African,

spk_0 the rugby coach.

spk_0 We, we weren't,

spk_0 I was, for example,

spk_0 the ready for that.

spk_0 I was dropped off my third game on the Harry.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 You know, I didn't understand

spk_0 how keep pushed with this rugby league, guys,

spk_0 and this was your rule.

spk_0 But if you think back now,

spk_0 he changed that.

spk_0 I love a lot of things.

spk_0 Also played my last game with you.

spk_0 I think against,

spk_0 under Harry, against,

spk_0 against France,

spk_0 in Durban.

spk_0 In Durban, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah, that was my last game.

spk_0 It was like the last one.

spk_0 Yeah, with my last game,

spk_0 I didn't play off there again.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I also played other games,

spk_0 which I'm not,

spk_0 I'm proud that I played for the box there.

spk_0

spk_0 But my only game is captain.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because there wasn't other captain left

spk_0 to put the mate captain.

spk_0 And no way.

spk_0 We lost 36 against Australia

spk_0 and Brisbane.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I remember that one.

spk_0

spk_0 She said it was actually a low blow for us.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I remember that night also

spk_0 in the changing room when we,

spk_0 there was silence.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I know that was.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 No, we're losing the springboard Tuesday.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's one of those.

spk_0 So then after that,

spk_0 you doing what you're doing currently.

spk_0

spk_0 I'm not sure we can,

spk_0 if the guys want us to maybe

spk_0 have a little bit more rock pitch at you.

spk_0

spk_0 But I think going to sit there on TV,

spk_0 I was there in 2007.

spk_0 I was with Jake and those guys

spk_0 before they started.

spk_0 I was,

spk_0 any Jones to cover from me.

spk_0 I was technical.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Three or four, five weeks of the guys

spk_0 and then they went to the World Cup 2007.

spk_0 And then I was,

spk_0 what are you called the pundit?

spk_0 Or on TV?

spk_0 And then they went to the World Cup.

spk_0 And me and Guy Kebel were the guys

spk_0 on Super Sport.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And you did four,

spk_0 like it was four World Cup games the day.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And so we would watch the game.

spk_0 And then you,

spk_0 how does it work now?

spk_0 Of course,

spk_0 those days, me and Guy watched the first 15 years.

spk_0 And then Guy said,

spk_0 no, let's go to the canteen.

spk_0 And then he would go to the canteen

spk_0 and we'll come back.

spk_0 Who would he can buy or whatever.

spk_0 And then 10 minutes before

spk_0 half time, we'll put the highlights on quickly.

spk_0 And then he would have to talk half time.

spk_0 And we had to talk after the guy.

spk_0 And we got the Giggles one said,

spk_0 yeah, yeah.

spk_0 He's a sitress.

spk_0 Listen to you guys,

spk_0 I'm not good enough for this.

spk_0 I mean,

spk_0 I don't do it.

spk_0 But I don't know,

spk_0 yeah, I don't know.

spk_0 I mean,

spk_0 during a game,

spk_0 I started to do,

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 I mean, I'm talking from my personal experience of us.

spk_0 These days,

spk_0 it's obviously very different, you know,

spk_0 because now,

spk_0 I don't know if you've seen, you know,

spk_0 we used that tablet as well.

spk_0 Yes, yes, yes.

spk_0 So now,

spk_0 every number one,

spk_0 now everybody needs to watch the game all the time.

spk_0 We all watch it together in a room.

spk_0 And we,

spk_0 we talk about how the storyline of the game is going.

spk_0 For instance, you know,

spk_0 you guys play against the Zealand.

spk_0 And we saw that Malcolm Marx

spk_0 were absolutely good at the breakdown.

spk_0 You know, we will,

spk_0 I'll make a note, you know,

spk_0 get clips of Malcolm.

spk_0 Chastlin, call me again, you know,

spk_0 he's really good in,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 cutting on the fence,

spk_0 cutting the last man off.

spk_0 You know, when he,

spk_0 when you guys do raster fence,

spk_0 yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 So that kind of stuff.

spk_0 So I,

spk_0 I,

spk_0 me, myself as well,

spk_0 I don't want to always show people tries.

spk_0 I want to show the guys who

spk_0 made a difference

spk_0 why the books are

spk_0 headed off time, you know,

spk_0 the guys who are

spk_0 almost like the most

spk_0 valuable players in the first half.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So it's easy to show the tries

spk_0 and the guys call the tries,

spk_0 but for me,

spk_0 personally, you know,

spk_0 so it's very intense.

spk_0 And then it's very important, you know,

spk_0 especially for young boys who won the one day

spk_0 coming, said they

spk_0 were doesn't support,

spk_0 you need to prepare always, you know,

spk_0 you need to know how many tries

spk_0 have chest and scored

spk_0 up till now, you know,

spk_0 and me as well,

spk_0 I sometimes also try and look

spk_0 what happened during the week.

spk_0 Vincent Koch had a baby's

spk_0 is wife

spk_0 and something nice to mention,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 while you talk about the guy,

spk_0 you know what I mean?

spk_0 I like the human,

spk_0 I like the human side of

spk_0 the Russ, you know,

spk_0 and I think that's what you also

spk_0 and your team also brought out

spk_0 this actually show

spk_0 corporate Africa guys

spk_0 if we work together

spk_0 we can achieve

spk_0 much more.

spk_0 That's, that's my,

spk_0 my view, yeah.

spk_0 I was like,

spk_0 yeah, tell me and then,

spk_0 pray before you come in

spk_0 off time.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Do you guys like

spk_0 the horse, what do you say at all?

spk_0 Yes, we consult, we consult.

spk_0 So let's say me and Nick

spk_0 or Skalk we together

spk_0 and I'll say, Skalky,

spk_0 this is my take,

spk_0 what's your take?

spk_0 I saw this,

spk_0 what are you seeing?

spk_0 And it's sometimes nice to

spk_0 bounce of each other

spk_0 because a guy like Skalkberg

spk_0 or you know,

spk_0 I value him so much as well

spk_0 with you.

spk_0 Yeah, he's so good.

spk_0 And he really,

spk_0 it almost comes natural to him

spk_0 as well, you know,

spk_0 let's say when it's

spk_0 talk about line-outs,

spk_0 he talk about the vacuum a lot,

spk_0 they kind of stuff.

spk_0 In some guys who know scrums,

spk_0 you know, I won't go into scrums,

spk_0 I mean, it's not my strong point.

spk_0 So I will always ask her forward,

spk_0 you know, what would you do differently?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So then we consult and then,

spk_0 it's important to consult with the guys

spk_0 because you can't just talk.

spk_0 And you want to talk about it?

spk_0 Yeah, you can formal as

spk_0 you are.

spk_0 So you can just talk what you can talk about.

spk_0 But we need to obviously,

spk_0 if a referee was really poor

spk_0 and in Nail,

spk_0 let's say, the box,

spk_0 we need to talk about him.

spk_0 I mean, you can't shy away from that.

spk_0 Or, you know,

spk_0 what I said to the guys,

spk_0 you guys played, you know,

spk_0 poorly tonight,

spk_0 we need to say, you know,

spk_0 we need to say, listen,

spk_0 it was an off night because of this

spk_0 and this and that.

spk_0 But when you guys,

spk_0 I mean,

spk_0 she's saying, thank goodness,

spk_0 the last couple of years,

spk_0 it was very easy for us

spk_0 and it was so easy for us

spk_0 because when the box play,

spk_0 people get personal, man, you know.

spk_0 And when you guys,

spk_0 I mean, you guys have made it so easy for us,

spk_0 I'm just saying thank you to you,

spk_0 the team.

spk_0 No, no, no.

spk_0 A bad news from me,

spk_0 interesting.

spk_0 Yeah, I've thought so many times.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And actually, if you check,

spk_0 you, John, Scala,

spk_0 you're over there at Sturmus.

spk_0 Yeah, you're talking about the Airy Celunin.

spk_0 Maybe Airy must get more credit.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Of course, it was also,

spk_0 you know, when you were that

spk_0 meaning black.

spk_0 Been in black.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Yes, to be skin state was,

spk_0 Bobby was our main driver

spk_0 that time, Russ.

spk_0 Yeah, remember the 99,

spk_0 it was a,

spk_0 a meaning black with the Sturmus,

spk_0 you know, it was a,

spk_0 it was a wonderful,

spk_0 wonderful year.

spk_0 Yes, we didn't make it to the final,

spk_0 but I must say,

spk_0 in my career as well,

spk_0 I haven't experienced something like it.

spk_0 And I think there was a time when

spk_0 rugby became so commercial as well.

spk_0 And I think, you know,

spk_0 the Sturmus,

spk_0 I like it.

spk_0 They saw this opportunity

spk_0 and we jumped into it.

spk_0 And I mean, we had,

spk_0 I remember that one,

spk_0 that one stretch,

spk_0 we had six games,

spk_0

spk_0 it, it,

spk_0

spk_0 it nuylens back in the day.

spk_0 50,000 people every,

spk_0 every week, Russ.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And there was a special time.

spk_0 And obviously,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 towards the semi-final,

spk_0 there were a lot of tension,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 then people were talking about the money.

spk_0 Yes. Oh, I remember that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I remember, you know,

spk_0 Andy Morinus,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 Wyndon represented us.

spk_0 And it was all over the papers.

spk_0 I mean, back in the day,

spk_0 there was a social media, you know.

spk_0 So, you had to wait for the papers to read a story.

spk_0 And that said in the morning,

spk_0 when we all woke up,

spk_0 it was Pindamodium.

spk_0 You know,

spk_0 and unfortunately,

spk_0 I feel that whole media hype

spk_0 affect the team.

spk_0 Because we were much better than the islanders.

spk_0 I feel at the time.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Oh, the island.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 The islanders fight.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 The beach, they beat us to cities.

spk_0

spk_0 You know what they did?

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Talk to them.

spk_0 But they never went to grass.

spk_0 They never went to grass.

spk_0 Because Corona was stealing more than Bobby

spk_0 and they just stayed upright

spk_0 and off-line.

spk_0 And we were chasing shadows all day.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's the only team, though.

spk_0 Yeah, it was great.

spk_0 Salma Re, you know.

spk_0 You had to.

spk_0 What did you know?

spk_0 Henry Herbert.

spk_0 Bobby running around us.

spk_0

spk_0 Was an Android can also.

spk_0 Android can be a flicker.

spk_0 Robi Brink.

spk_0 Percy.

spk_0 Oh, was a great team, Rasmus.

spk_0 Percy.

spk_0 Then, Percy, then,

spk_0 Thomas, then,

spk_0 Paul Slopchips.

spk_0 Oh, Flickie.

spk_0 So, we had a great team, 99.

spk_0 You know, I must have.

spk_0 Old Slopchips.

spk_0 We're getting old.

spk_0 Slopchips, daughter.

spk_0 My daughter is playing.

spk_0 It needs both together.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 21.

spk_0 We're getting old.

spk_0

spk_0 But, I mean, if you take the old career,

spk_0 it was easy when Osteranth,

spk_0 I was working from the army.

spk_0 You know, me and Alchart played almost all our games together.

spk_0 But we had some special moments.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, if you talk about, again,

spk_0 the third and fourth place playoff,

spk_0 we played together.

spk_0 My last game.

spk_0 I played together with you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Then, you know, that one against,

spk_0 against Italy, where you scored three tries.

spk_0

spk_0 I was my last game.

spk_0 Then the one where I was captain.

spk_0 We lost 32-6.

spk_0 But I also gave you a,

spk_0 yeah, you gave me a few tries, Rasmus.

spk_0 And there's one I'll never forget.

spk_0 It was like the, my third try about the score against Italy,

spk_0 the Buddha Rasmus.

spk_0 And you gave me, I would call it like an football,

spk_0 they say, assist.

spk_0 You gave me the assist, you know,

spk_0 because it's called my third try,

spk_0 which I was incredibly grateful for.

spk_0 Because at the time as well,

spk_0 we didn't be played very conservatively, you know,

spk_0 but I mean, that try,

spk_0 oh, that try gave me my third try.

spk_0 So it was a hitry con day,

spk_0 and then also,

spk_0 there are so many emotions went through my head

spk_0 when I scored that third try.

spk_0 And my whole family,

spk_0 Mr. Twini's family was in the stands.

spk_0 And when I scored that try,

spk_0 I was like, man, I need to do something.

spk_0 And it's farmboys.

spk_0 It's farmboys Rasmus.

spk_0 We all did it.

spk_0 When I grew up,

spk_0 the farm just got into my head.

spk_0 And we all did Bologna kisses like they say.

spk_0 Yeah, and I did my,

spk_0 my first flick flick.

spk_0 And afterwards, I was like,

spk_0 what the y'all just do, Brits?

spk_0 But it was such a moment for me,

spk_0 you know, a special moment.

spk_0 It's coding my third try.

spk_0 It was my family in the stands,

spk_0 and it just took me back to the farm.

spk_0 So thanks for that assist.

spk_0 I think they must actually give people

spk_0 who give assist more credit.

spk_0 Very happy.

spk_0 Yeah, very happy.

spk_0 You still a suss king.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, he's a suss king.

spk_0 So they must do it actually in football.

spk_0 I watch a lot of football.

spk_0 In rugby, they must also do it to give people

spk_0 who give assist,

spk_0 or who give the most assist during the game

spk_0 or the season.

spk_0 They must give those guys credit to us.

spk_0 But thanks for that, eh?

spk_0 You know, they're talking about the flip flak

spk_0 or the black kiss,

spk_0 yeah, the African swiss,

spk_0 yeah, the white woman like you see.

spk_0 You know what you see a lot now,

spk_0 winner of a flank steal the turnover.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 And they'll all win a,

spk_0 you know, when somebody get a turnover scrum,

spk_0 though, yeah,

spk_0 it's, uh, one says overseas thing.

spk_0 But you get, it's like a flank each stole a ball.

spk_0 Just a ball.

spk_0 And for me,

spk_0 and then you're the rest of the team

spk_0 was talking about an installable,

spk_0 which is that he worked, you know,

spk_0 or when somebody kicks over three points,

spk_0 nobody goes out.

spk_0 If you see me kickers kick the ball over the balls,

spk_0 nobody goes out,

spk_0 but it's three points.

spk_0 But when the guy steals a ball,

spk_0 he's celebrating like,

spk_0 it's no good.

spk_0 And I think when a, when a prize scored,

spk_0 yeah, remember Follaburga.

spk_0 Follaburga, yeah.

spk_0 It's the die like that.

spk_0 And then I'll get, when we're on a Monday morning,

spk_0 tell this guy, just stop being then glad.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But I feel it's not a,

spk_0 when it's not a plastic thing.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's, that, that influence the team.

spk_0

spk_0 And you go back on task.

spk_0 There's a,

spk_0 at least a moment of joy.

spk_0 Leave it.

spk_0 I like these other celebrations of things

spk_0 that doesn't give you points too.

spk_0 And it's a bit of plastic for me.

spk_0 For me, I,

spk_0 that never bothered me.

spk_0 That was,

spk_0 that was so way to some happy man.

spk_0 Yeah, it's lucky.

spk_0 It's like, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 It's personal.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 It's not always a personal because I think where,

spk_0 where we must trick is where people

spk_0 make celebrations of other stars.

spk_0 I like it, you know,

spk_0 it's personal, you know,

spk_0 like,

spk_0 like a Follaburga who used to die.

spk_0 I love it to me.

spk_0 It's nice.

spk_0 It's unique.

spk_0 And he did it for a reason, obviously.

spk_0 So I like the unique and personal celebrations.

spk_0 Nothing wrong with that.

spk_0 You'll tell me and,

spk_0 and can you still go?

spk_0 I might,

spk_0 I might pull an emstring now.

spk_0 Because, you know,

spk_0 that's a young man.

spk_0 Oh, last time I did it actually on a golf course

spk_0 in Swaziland,

spk_0 when I made a eagle.

spk_0 You know, you don't often make an eagle.

spk_0 Okay, I'll play a cigarette.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 So, and that's like 15 years after I retired.

spk_0 And I said to the people,

spk_0 guys, just hang on.

spk_0 I went,

spk_0 Doom,

spk_0 and I did not bother with Casey.

spk_0 And there was a last time where I was so pleased

spk_0 and asked with you.

spk_0 Oh, perfect.

spk_0 And the last thing from one side,

spk_0 and I don't know if you've got something great to eat.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think,

spk_0 well, when people,

spk_0 and people must never see this as a political thing.

spk_0 I'm talking about people,

spk_0 the era to move with it.

spk_0 They say mind each other.

spk_0 You know, I listened to Dion Davis.

spk_0 I want to get him also on the port of cars.

spk_0 And Dion tells me about,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0 what is honest and I've had all the...

spk_0 I understand, but it's a disaster.

spk_0 It's a disaster.

spk_0 And if you see in the colored community currently,

spk_0 the club rock-p-

spk_0 they've got a DJ.

spk_0 And every club's got a song.

spk_0 And they've got that almost like a radio station.

spk_0 And they play those songs there.

spk_0 And they,

spk_0 every club has a song.

spk_0 And the vibe,

spk_0 which is currently under the colored community,

spk_0 is probably a helping club rock.

spk_0 Because,

spk_0 and where I grew up,

spk_0 you know,

spk_0

spk_0 unfortunately in the special club rock-p-

spk_0 is not so strong there.

spk_0 And how there is there was six, seven teams.

spk_0 But,

spk_0 yeah, it's still strong under the colored community club rock-p-

spk_0 so one thing,

spk_0 I think I will get Dion to share some of that question.

spk_0 Oh, you guys play a big part in that.

spk_0 Now, Rasi, thank you for that.

spk_0 And I tell you,

spk_0 the community club rock-p-

spk_0 especially in the Bouland,

spk_0 where I come from.

spk_0 It is, even now,

spk_0 it is crazy, you know,

spk_0 15,000 people sometimes at a game on weekends.

spk_0 It is phenomenal.

spk_0 And made that long continue,

spk_0 because that's what the aunties and uncles like, you know,

spk_0 they want to go and shout for their kids and their cousins

spk_0 and the uncle.

spk_0 And it's almost like a party vibe

spk_0 when you go to any of these,

spk_0 these Bouland towns on a Saturday.

spk_0 It really is phenomenal.

spk_0 And made that long continue, hopefully.

spk_0 But just finally, Rasi, for my side,

spk_0 I just want to say, you know,

spk_0 it's the chairman of the Little Men.

spk_0 Thank you for picking guys like,

spk_0 Good Sasteland.

spk_0 Thank you,

spk_0 thanks for picking guys like,

spk_0 like Gran Williams.

spk_0 Curly Arons, just to mention a few.

spk_0 Even a guy like Quacha, for instance, you know,

spk_0 you would have never gotten an opportunity.

spk_0 I would almost say in the old times of S.A. rugby.

spk_0 And I think your progressive thinking for me

spk_0 is one of a kind and made long continue.

spk_0 So I'm trying to say as well that

spk_0 the two guys are there.

spk_0 Don't be scared.

spk_0 You know, Rasi's door is always open.

spk_0 As long as Rasi's there,

spk_0 it will give you an opportunity.

spk_0 If you are good enough.

spk_0 And you make sure that you work hard

spk_0 all the time to stay in that spring routine.

spk_0 I like how I want to, I like all this because I just think,

spk_0 I just love all the college community church.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 This story has had so many versions.

spk_0 But I'm not going to play it on this.

spk_0 But we were playing a game and we were busy losing.

spk_0 And there was a guy on the reserve bench.

spk_0 And I remember that front door there,

spk_0 Newland, those guys were,

spk_0 they were so sharp,

spk_0 what they said there.

spk_0 And they were busy chirping the guys on the field.

spk_0 They were losing.

spk_0 And one of the reserve looked back in the beginning.

spk_0 I was going to call almost a upset

spk_0 of a way a colored guy,

spk_0 too, because it's so funny.

spk_0 Even if he embarrasses you,

spk_0 you have to love what he said.

spk_0 And one of the reserve looked back and he said,

spk_0 hey, you know what,

spk_0 he was busy losing.

spk_0 And I said,

spk_0 you know what,

spk_0 you would be at a reserve floor

spk_0 and you would say,

spk_0 you would be being viewed cockies yet.

spk_0 So, it was.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah, I appreciate you coming here.

spk_0 I appreciate what you've done for the little guys.

spk_0 And for everybody in South Africa,

spk_0 and we're taking the time and coming to have the chat.

spk_0 Really appreciate it.

spk_0 It's a absolute pleasure.

spk_0 Thank you.

RASSIE+ | Too Small, Too ‘Quota’ – How Breyton Paulse Defied It All

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