Sports
Pigs and Slop
In this episode of the MTG Goldfish podcast, the crew dives into the recent 'pigs and slop' controversy that has sparked discussions within the Magic: The Gathering community. They explore t...
Pigs and Slop
Sports •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hello, everyone and welcome back to
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so 550 six of the MTG Goldfish podcast.
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I'm Seth probably better known as
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Safra Alev and we have the full crew here this week.
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Kicking things off with the owner of MTG Goldfish,
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a Richard. How are you this fine Monday, Richard?
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Good morning, Seth. I was just catching up on football this weekend and.
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No, God, don't bring up football.
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It's just so many funny things happen.
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It was like kind of weird, but I don't want to get it.
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But check out the R NFL highlights, but lots of funny things this week.
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And we have another coast in Kram. Good morning, Kram. How's it going today?
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Good morning. It's going all right.
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Freshly removed from my bed.
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Hey, so I'm excited. Sounds like podcast time.
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Yep. Yep. Good morning. Good morning.
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So today we're going to be jumping around a little bit.
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There was some interesting conversations going on
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on the magic internet this past week.
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There was a video by Kibler talking about his take on
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where magic's at in universes beyond.
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There was this now kind of infamous pigs and slop posts we wanted to get into.
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Some news about Hasbro going deep on making actual games studios
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and then answering some fish mail maybe talking some Spider-Man in standard.
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So that's the plan for today. Before we get into it though,
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a reminder that today's show's brought you by CardCon to it.
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So thank you to HeavyFully for supporting our show as well.
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And let's talk some magic, and I think we got to start.
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With a big conversation of the past week,
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I don't know if either one of you saw this on the magic
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internet, but there was this internet post about pigs and slop,
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which kind of took over the magic internet this past week.
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So to set this stage for what this is,
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my understanding of this,
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as it was posted by a longtime competitive magic player
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by the name of Jeffery White on his Twitter,
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and it kind of just took off from there
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and went to all the social media.
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I don't know if I'm going to read this entire post,
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but essentially the post talks about going to your favorite restaurant
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that you've went to for many years now,
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and suddenly realizing that there's a new menu item,
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which is slop, and the slop is to feed the pigs,
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according to the waiter.
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In over time, the menu just merges into being all slop
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and pretty soon the restaurant's unrecognizable,
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and you don't even want to go to that restaurant anymore.
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And when you bring up what's going on with the restaurant,
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people essentially get two replies from people,
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which are either people that say,
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I'm a pig and I eat slop,
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or the restaurant's doing so well,
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and it has so many patrons,
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how can you possibly be upset?
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Get any more customers in the restaurant.
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It has to be a good thing.
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But basically, the feeling that this restaurant
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is no longer for that person because it's changed.
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And I'm very curious.
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First off, what you guys think of this post?
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What's your initial reaction to this?
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Because my God, everyone has been talking about it
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for the past week.
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Oink, oink.
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I'm call me the slop eater, slop goblin.
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I am here for it.
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Do not care.
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Anybody that uses slop genuinely and unironically,
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I'm sorry.
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Everything that you've said has gone out the other ear,
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because I think that the idea of slop and all of that
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just does not matter to me.
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Like if you genuinely are this upset about this stuff,
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about a children's card game,
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I applaud you, be as angry as you want to be,
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voice about it however you need to be.
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But if you're asking me,
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I do not care about this thing.
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This article or whatever this post is just comical.
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Right? I'm like,
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oink oink, give me more.
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So do not care.
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Oh, Richard, what do you think of this?
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So this post, I mean over it came from.
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Seth had to just explain it to me right now,
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but many versions of it have been circulating the internet.
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Like you see the comics,
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picking the stop, everyone's seen it.
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And I always thought it was like
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some clever animal farm reference or, you know,
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like some like, oh no.
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I'm like, what does this mean?
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Now that I get it,
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it's true,
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but is it that bad?
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Is my question because that's how everything is, right?
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Like name your favorite restaurant.
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Like literally the story is telling you, right?
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Like your restaurant, your band,
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movies, how many times have we heard film is dead, right?
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Like even YouTube has been ruined now by TikTok.
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And even TikTok has been ruined by the current generation of TikTok.
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I don't know.
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So it obviously I think is true, right?
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Like if you are,
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if you've been playing magic since 1995,
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it must be real.
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There's none of us.
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Okay.
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So let's say you've been playing magic since 2005, right?
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That's still like 20 years ago, right?
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Or like 15 years ago,
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the game is just unrecognizable,
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right?
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Like how we played the game back then
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is not how we play the game today,
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like at all, right?
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But there are many things that are unrecognizable.
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Like how you live your life.
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Remember 15 years ago,
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you went outside and talked to people and like touched grass
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and like had conversations
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and we're like accepting an intolerant of other views
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and stuff like that.
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Like that's all gone.
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Like kind of life has all changed.
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And do you enjoy magic today?
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Is there a question?
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And I think that's what you got to ask.
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But also at the same time,
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it's like super gatekeeper to be like,
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it's got to be like what it's got to be like 15 years ago, right?
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Because 15 years ago,
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magic was kind of inaccessible.
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Everyone was scared away.
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No one really wanted to play.
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And it was just like your niche nerdy,
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like you're little circle of friends kind of thing.
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That's what made it very cool, right?
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Like that's what made the original
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like grand prize like super cool, right?
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Because that was the one time of the year
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you could go talk magic with other people that loved magic.
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And you know, when you talked about it in real life,
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everyone would just laugh at you and like,
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you know, okay, cool, right?
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But now you can talk to everyone.
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Because everyone knows about Final Fantasy,
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you know, Magic the Gathering or Spider-Man Magic the Gathering.
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It's less special.
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It's different.
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Is it still fun?
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I don't know.
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Is it slop?
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I don't know.
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Right?
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Slop slop is kind of like a derogatory term, right?
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I don't know what a nice,
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what a nice term is for like commoditized or something.
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Corporate shield, you know?
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Like I don't know what the nice term for that is.
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But like made accessible to normal people,
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whatever that is.
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Like when your favorite punk band
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like sells out so that normal people get listed.
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What does that call it a nice way?
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Who's thought it a nice way?
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Yeah, the framing of this is very interesting.
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My initial reaction as soon as I read it is,
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I think kind of similar to Richard that like,
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yes, I think someone's expressing like real feelings that makes sense to me.
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Like I could see how someone would feel exactly this way
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about the changes that have happened to Magic.
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The framing I thought at first,
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I think it does a disservice to the argument.
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And if you would have written it in another way,
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because the conversation really got derailed into,
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oh my god, they called people pigs or oh my god,
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they said it was Slopper or something,
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rather than thinking about like what it's at the point of what this is actually trying to say
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about the changes in Magic.
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So my initial reaction was, okay, get what this person saying.
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But if they had not used the same,
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this wording that it probably would have went over better.
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But then the more I thought about it as a week went by,
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I was like, actually maybe in 2025,
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and then the internet era, maybe this actually is the most effective way to
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word it because the internet just rewards you for saying outrageous things,
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because people get angry and repost them.
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And like, what do you think of the framing?
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Is this like brilliant framing?
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Because there were, this was the conversation in Magic.
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And if you'd wrote this in a commodification way or something,
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no one would have noticed it and it wouldn't have been a big deal.
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Or is it horrible framing?
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Because it honestly does come across a little bit like,
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maybe insensitive, like something along those lines to me.
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But what do you think of the actual choice of words?
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I mean, do you like click farming?
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It's just that simple, right?
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Like if you think click farming is fine,
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then I think it's whatever, right?
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Like for me, it's just like,
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it's somebody probably has some genuine sentiment in here,
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but I just kind of stop caring after I read part of it, right?
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So like there's probably something really underneath all of the
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slop that I just read.
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It's so, so for cram it,
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because the framing actually,
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like if it was word in a different way,
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you might have been more likely to actually read the entire message, basically.
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Yeah, I actually just didn't, yeah.
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I think if it were something that seemed like a genuine concern,
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I would have probably, and it were framed differently,
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I'd probably read it more, right?
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I think it's accurate.
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I don't think you can, because there is a message of meanness, right?
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So at the end of the day, what they're trying to say is like,
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magic has been dumbed down or is like low effort product, right?
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So like, when you make pig slop, you're not like,
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oh, you know, Michelin star, you know,
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you're just like, whatever, throwing a bucket,
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give it to the pigs, right?
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So they do mean that,
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and they also mean that the consumers of such product don't care, right?
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Like the pigs don't care, they eat everything.
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I'm, this may be totally, I don't know what pigs are like,
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but that's what they're trying to say,
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but I'm just going to agree with, right?
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So like, yeah, like they, they, they kind of mean it, right?
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And they are being mean, right?
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Like, I think they are trying to say like,
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you people who buy universes beyond or whatever, are a problem.
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Like that, that's what the message is trying to say, right?
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Like Wizards is only making this because you keep buying it, right?
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So they're, they're, they're saying it, right?
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So I think that's an effective message, right?
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Now, of course, you can be nice about it,
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but wait a minute, that doesn't gather engagement on the internet, right?
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And it is still true, right?
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Like the, the message is in part being cared by the words they use.
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And I don't think we're misinterpreting it.
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I don't think they meant it to be like the, you know,
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some nice compliment on Watsy, and we're all just misinterpreting it.
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I think we're interpreting it the way they meant it to be interpreted, right?
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And it's up to, you know, the individual to decide whether it's fair or not,
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you know what I mean? Like, you know, am I really a pig?
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And is this really slop?
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And is it the end of the world?
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You know, sometimes we just might eat some McDonald's, you know?
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Like, okay, it doesn't have to be like a fancy sit down meal, right?
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But that's true.
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You know, if you go to a fancy sit down restaurant and they serve you McDonald's,
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you're like, wait a minute, what happened, right?
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So, you know, is that the expectation is mismatched?
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Have we, have we all been thinking we're getting steak and fries or steak and fries?
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Like steak and gravy or something, right?
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And we just ended up with chicken nuggets, right?
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Or do we go with expecting chicken nuggets and got chicken nuggets?
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And, you know, is the idea of saying magic to gathering,
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which, you know, enfranchised people would long say, you know,
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it's the greatest game ever and, you know, that's like, that's a steak, right?
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Is the fact that we're calling it chicken nuggets now like a bad thing, right?
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I think, I think it's an effective message.
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Now, it's just mean and what it got you thinking, right?
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And I personally think it's true, but kind of mean, right?
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Just let people enjoy what they enjoy, right?
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And the numbers don't lie, right?
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Like wizards is wildly successful because people enjoy this.
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And you know what, McDonald's is a very large food franchise, right?
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Like, you know, is it the best food?
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Probably not, but, you know, my question would be like,
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couldn't you just do both?
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Like, isn't there a world where you can do universes beyond or support commander
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or like, do what this post would be calling slop,
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but still serve the steak at the restaurant?
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Like, does it have to be in either or situation?
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I feel like it doesn't have to be.
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I feel like there's a world where you can support someone who's been playing for 20 years
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and wants to play 60 card formats.
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Why also doing universes beyond?
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And like, I feel like part of the problem is it was just like so much of the 60 card stuff
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was taken away or like not managed or like just like they took away the pro tours.
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And yeah, they kind of brought them back now, but like we've seen like just so much
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be taken away from 60 card players.
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Isn't there a world where the restaurant could also be serving a steak and serving the
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slop for the people who want it?
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Like, do you think that's the issue?
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Or is it just all slop for it?
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Yes, but it's not profitable.
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You know what I mean?
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Like, they can make a set that's dedicated to like
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hard core 60 card players and it sells average or they can make seven final fantasies that
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like blow their numbers through the roof time and time again.
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Right?
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Like they they fall over the numbers because they didn't just arrive at this yesterday.
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Right?
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Like just go back like 10 years where they start cutting back the pro tour and like actually
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it makes no difference.
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Right?
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And then oh, they just start adding commander cards into standard products.
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Actually, they sound like way better.
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Right?
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Okay, we'll just thought play testing standard altogether.
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Hey guys, the numbers didn't even change.
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Right?
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I'm like, you know, 15 years later it all adds up and now you're at slop.
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Right?
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So and slop is making more money than ever.
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So I think that's the problem.
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Right?
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Like if they do the one set for 60 card players,
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will it actually move the needle in any meaningful way?
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I don't know.
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But I feel like they figure that it doesn't and just like sending out,
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apparently sending out Spider-Man, like some last minute pivot.
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Without digital rights or whatever, like was deemed better.
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Like going with like a normal standard set.
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And we don't know what the numbers are.
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Maybe they turned out to be right.
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Right?
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Maybe they turned out to be wrong.
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But like they they're making those decisions due to like their primary factor,
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which is making money.
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And given how much money Hasbro and Wizards is making compared to last year,
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compared to five years ago, their strategy is working.
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Right?
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The real thing that we're all worried about is like we're not actually pigs.
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We're sloped and we're going to get scurvy in like two years.
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You know what I mean?
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Like you can eat like it's the noodles and hot dogs for four years of college.
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And then when you hit 30, you just die.
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Right?
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Like that's what we're worried about.
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It's okay until it's not okay.
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Right?
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So I think that's what all the real fans are worried about.
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Like yeah, we could take some slop.
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But like how much slop can we take before we fall over?
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Or actually, are we just pigs?
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We're fine.
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You know,
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well, you're nutritious eating hot dogs every time.
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Right?
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But, you know, I think we're just worried we're just going to die.
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Yeah, I mean, I think that is a concern.
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And like it goes back to McDonald's thing, right?
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Having a McDonald's burger once in a while is fine.
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But if you're doing McDonald's every meal every day,
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I think they made documentaries about what happens when you do that.
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And it's not actually good if you just eat fast food every meal every day.
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You actually read about that?
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That's like not actually accurate.
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Yeah.
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It's really really that crazy alcoholic.
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Yeah.
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It was like, it was all like coming up for something.
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It was not as bad as you think it was.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I didn't know that it'd been debunked.
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I just remember, yes, super size me or whatever the movie was.
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Interesting.
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Interesting.
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Well anyway, let's tie this into to broader standard.
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Because this has been,
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this has been an interesting week in magic.
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I feel like as far as the content that's been put out from people I follow,
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it has been one of the more negative weeks or a couple of weeks that I can remember.
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And Kibler, Brian Kibler, Hall of Aimer posted a really interesting video.
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The title of the video was basically, let me get it correct.
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The problems with the universe is beyond even if you're not a hater.
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And I think the interesting part of this video for me is Kibler actually believes a lot like I do,
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which is as long as the game is good, I really don't care about a lot of this crap.
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If you want to put Dwight on a secret layer drop and you want to do all these
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universes beyond sets, as long as the actual game is good, and that's the focus,
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is to make the game good, that stuff doesn't really bother me.
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And I think Kibler made a pretty, I thought convincing argument that some of the choices that
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have been made lately actually aren't with the best interest of the game itself in mind.
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And I think the easiest example of this was the shock lands.
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And we all knew the shock land thing was weird, right?
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It was supposed to come out this fall in Lourwin, but then they pushed it back so they could do Spider-Man.
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So we already knew it was weird because we have like six months of standard with
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hilariously unbalanced mana.
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But then I was even worse than I realized because they switched rotation to being at the first of the year.
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So now that the second half of the shocks come out in January,
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they're actually going to rotate half the shocks a year before the rest of the half of the shocks.
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So stuff like that I think is a pretty clear example of what's best for the actual game of magic.
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Kind of taking the back burner, right?
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To we need to release this set now where maybe we have something Kibler brought up.
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We don't know all these contracts.
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We don't know like once you let other people be partners in your game,
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you don't have control over this stuff,
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maybe they can actually need to release a Marvel set in 2025.
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We have no way of knowing that, but you have this extra pressure.
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I thought the video was really good.
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I'm curious what you guys think.
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Like is the game getting worse because of these changes?
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Because that's what actually concerns me in all this.
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Not the Dwight C. Carlier dropper, whatever.
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No regardless of whether it's cringe or not.
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But what do you think of the argument that the actual game is suffering because of some of this stuff?
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I think Kibler's got a point there with when it comes to rotation.
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I think this is a very real concern because much like you,
spk_0
if the game is not good, then there is a problem, right?
spk_0
It will be awkward to have half the fetches.
spk_0
So I am curious on how that's going to play out.
spk_0
Personally, I don't like that.
spk_0
As you've also known, I am not an enjoyer right now of having to remember two sets,
spk_0
whether it's like Omen Path and the normal Spider-Man.
spk_0
That part of it has been a disaster.
spk_0
I do really much so agree with a good amount of the points that at least from what
spk_0
Seth has kind of told me about the video.
spk_0
The TLDR.
spk_0
So like I am concerned about it.
spk_0
I'm not sure how you fix that, right?
spk_0
Like other than they plan on reprinting the shocks again in a later set that would then cycle out
spk_0
with the ones that are coming out at the beginning of the year with Lauren.
spk_0
So I am very curious about that.
spk_0
And you know, when it comes to like working with so many partners,
spk_0
that can mean so many things, whether or not like you get like you would like why we have
spk_0
this digital set when you have to release things.
spk_0
So I am very curious about all of that.
spk_0
And it is a problem, right?
spk_0
If you do not have control over your game, right?
spk_0
Like the one thing here is as much as I love everything coming to Magic,
spk_0
I'm now curious when do we see Magic come to other things, right?
spk_0
Like so where is the give and take in all of this, right?
spk_0
So if you're telling me that Marvel is telling you to put out this set this time, great,
spk_0
you know, if you do whatever you're going to have to do, but like does this mean that Magic
spk_0
gets something back as well?
spk_0
Yeah, you didn't hear Creme Jace is going to be in the next X-Men movie.
spk_0
He's the fifth X-Men.
spk_0
If first off, you know, there's a lot of X-Men.
spk_0
So Jace is very part in the back of that line.
spk_0
Uh, second off, that would be really funny.
spk_0
And I would feel to see that because it's
spk_0
I don't want to see anything Magic really.
spk_0
But I am very curious about that.
spk_0
And then from a Gameplay standpoint, Gameplay standpoint, I am obviously worried about
spk_0
having half-shocks and whatnot.
spk_0
So doesn't matter Richard.
spk_0
Doesn't matter.
spk_0
Is this just my, so I agree with almost word for word, everything Kibbler said,
spk_0
but I also thought maybe none of this matters.
spk_0
And it's just like who cares about standard?
spk_0
We're selling so many cards to Commander players, which then I guess kind of ties back
spk_0
into the pigs and slop argument that that other person made that they're just selling so much to the things
spk_0
I don't care about that it feels like slop to me.
spk_0
But what do you think does it actually matter?
spk_0
So it matters to us.
spk_0
The sweaty tournament grinders.
spk_0
Of course it matters, right?
spk_0
And I am pretty sure if if if I took like a poll,
spk_0
if I just went back in time every year, how do you, what do you think about the current state of competitive magic?
spk_0
It's just a line going like straight down over time, right?
spk_0
You're like, what is even play testing nowadays?
spk_0
You know what I mean?
spk_0
The fact that a new standard set comes out and like no one's excited because like nothing's being played,
spk_0
like you know, like literally nothing's being played.
spk_0
There's always some broken deck and then you go to the next broken deck.
spk_0
Gameplay's not engaging, stuff like that.
spk_0
But there's this other segment of players that are extremely happy where the line is going up, right?
spk_0
Those are the casual players.
spk_0
Those are the universes beyond enjoyers.
spk_0
And those people far outnumber the competitive players, right?
spk_0
And you can actually see like the distinct points of like death in timeline, right?
spk_0
Like when SEG Sundays or whatever went off air, right?
spk_0
When those like big SEG tournaments went off air, when they started cutting back pro tour,
spk_0
right?
spk_0
Like when they started cutting like Hall of Fame invites and stuff like that.
spk_0
And like when their their tournament system changed like every six months for no reasons,
spk_0
so no one knew how to like actually queue for like a high level event.
spk_0
Like it's all going down.
spk_0
And that's because like sweaty people are outnumbered like a hundred to one by casual people,
spk_0
right?
spk_0
Sweaty people are just simply not profitable, right?
spk_0
Well, when a new card comes out, we're like, I have to buy singles, you know?
spk_0
First we got a play test.
spk_0
We got a print proxies in there test for 120 hours and see,
spk_0
if this play set of mythics is absolutely necessary.
spk_0
And when we do, we will wait six weeks for the lowest possible price and buy them, right?
spk_0
Whereas like casual players like, oh, Sephiroth, search oil, $400.
spk_0
Okay, done, right?
spk_0
And you're like, that person is way more profitable.
spk_0
And that's how we're here.
spk_0
The question is kind of game sustain itself like this because it was kind of sustained at least
spk_0
for the first 20 years off like the tournament scene, right?
spk_0
Because we're so enfranchised because we stayed up to watch all the pro tours because we
spk_0
followed all our favorite pros and stuff like that, right?
spk_0
The game continued.
spk_0
Can we can we hold the line with like scalpers and poke bros and stuff like that, right?
spk_0
Has real things they can do it?
spk_0
I think this is where everyone's concerned, right?
spk_0
Can't can it actually hold?
spk_0
Because if it does hold, tournament players get like the free ride now, right?
spk_0
Now all of our cards are kind of subsidized by like chase commander staples, right?
spk_0
We get so many sets a year like the actual like imprint based rarity cards are theoretically
spk_0
a lot cheaper than they used to be, right?
spk_0
Like the endless supplies of reprints of fetches and shocks and things like that.
spk_0
But I don't know.
spk_0
I would much rather just go back 10 years where like everyone cared about 60 card formats.
spk_0
There was actually a discussion point because with commander being the most popular format,
spk_0
like there's nothing to discuss like really.
spk_0
It's like, I'll just play what you like.
spk_0
And like, oh, did you actually put thought into your deck?
spk_0
You're too sweaty.
spk_0
You just pub-stomping us.
spk_0
Go back, go to your bracket, right?
spk_0
Come to my bracket.
spk_0
You know, like there's nothing to really discuss versus like,
spk_0
oh, on the plate, they played a shock land.
spk_0
What deck are they, what deck are they on, right?
spk_0
Like, you know, they did that.
spk_0
What does that mean, right?
spk_0
Like, you know, like that kind of conversation like does not happen.
spk_0
What's the way I'm magic anymore?
spk_0
Like I'm sure if you like, you know, go to some pro house,
spk_0
like the three remaining pro houses, you can have that conversation.
spk_0
But that used to be like the conversation at F&M, right?
spk_0
That does not happen anymore.
spk_0
Now it's like, so how's your SpongeBob deck doing?
spk_0
You know, you're going to get the new,
spk_0
are you going to get the new Dwight secret layer, right?
spk_0
Like that's the conversation we have today.
spk_0
I mean, I do worry and wonder if Wizards eventually is just like,
spk_0
like I think it's correct.
spk_0
I agree with everything Kubla was saying.
spk_0
But I wonder if Wizards would get to the point where it's just like,
spk_0
not worth it to even do the little bit they do now for like old school 60 card players.
spk_0
And there's going to be like, wow, those people,
spk_0
they just constantly complain about everything.
spk_0
And like, why do we don't make much money off of them anyway?
spk_0
So what's the point of us even having the little bit that we do do for, you know,
spk_0
qualifiers and pro tours?
spk_0
Why are we even doing that?
spk_0
Why are we doing arena opens?
spk_0
Like why why bother to do that?
spk_0
When it's just so much more profitable to do other things.
spk_0
And then we don't have to deal with these people complaining.
spk_0
Do you think Wizards wants the person who's been playing for 20 years to be a part of the
spk_0
game and the community at this point?
spk_0
Like I'm that actually sounds very harsh.
spk_0
But like, would it just be easier and more profitable if we all went away?
spk_0
Like,
spk_0
they want to treat us like legacy players.
spk_0
Like like for 10, they support us.
spk_0
But like not really.
spk_0
They don't really care, right?
spk_0
You know what I mean?
spk_0
Like I hope you can probably do our magic odds and all that stuff.
spk_0
And we'll we can look like it, but like really,
spk_0
we don't care because you don't really buy anything anyway.
spk_0
You know what I mean?
spk_0
Like your ideal thing is to build modern jund and keep it unchanged for 15 years.
spk_0
That makes me no money.
spk_0
That's doing nothing.
spk_0
You know what I mean?
spk_0
Like that makes me nobody, right?
spk_0
So I think it's really like,
spk_0
does Wizards want to support vintage?
spk_0
Kind of, but not really.
spk_0
You know what I mean?
spk_0
You know, like, kind of the same thing.
spk_0
Not look bad, but like it's not really getting them anything.
spk_0
I think every year we're kind of doing it.
spk_0
And I think we are trying to become Pokemon.
spk_0
I like, yeah, I guess if you get into Chris Cox's head and you're like,
spk_0
which game do you want to emulate?
spk_0
It'd be something like Lego or Pokemon or something.
spk_0
And Pokemon like no one plays the game.
spk_0
They just collect, right?
spk_0
And like the biggest market are like slabs, right?
spk_0
Like that's kind of where they want to go.
spk_0
They make so much money off of that, right?
spk_0
Why would you not?
spk_0
If you were this hero, I would you not want to go there?
spk_0
That seems like the ultimate win.
spk_0
Could you imagine like,
spk_0
you don't have to worry about anyone complaining about VV with Agatha Soul Cauldron.
spk_0
You don't have to worry about people complaining about,
spk_0
you know, the state of the tournaments or what's going on in modern these days.
spk_0
Like if people just buy the cardboard and you don't have to worry about like,
spk_0
balancing the actual game, that seems like that would make your life incredibly easy.
spk_0
Okay, Seth, this is all very like doom and gloom and pessimistic.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
What do you think we should do as like people who value 60 card formats due
spk_0
to enact change,
spk_0
besides some writing pigs and sloths.
spk_0
Like what do you think should actually be done so that wizard's like actually
spk_0
supports us in a meaningful capacity and over time we can take back our market share.
spk_0
What can we do?
spk_0
Man, that's that is the question, right?
spk_0
So I think when it comes down to it, it's all about money,
spk_0
but I don't know how to vote with your wallet when it comes to like, I guess it's
spk_0
support those formats is the most you can do like to try to to try to send that message to
spk_0
wizards like actually show up at your qualifier or your LGS in play 60 card port like,
spk_0
what else can you do?
spk_0
Like we know that it all comes down to money.
spk_0
We know that's the that's the biggest driver of any business, right?
spk_0
Is you're trying to make a profit and we do know that wizards like researches things and they
spk_0
always have data and numbers of these those many people like this or this many people bought this.
spk_0
So I think the best plan is actually just to actively support those formats, whether they're
spk_0
good or bad at the time, even if you're not digging the cauldron meta show up to your,
spk_0
you know, qualifier, but then they also
spk_0
risk sending the message that you're okay with things being how they are, right?
spk_0
If everyone shows up to all the tournaments and plays the VV cauldron meta,
spk_0
then why do you ban VV cauldron?
spk_0
Because everyone's still playing anyway.
spk_0
I don't know, you got a better idea than me, Richard.
spk_0
I wish I had a greater answer to that.
spk_0
I think you got to at least go to your 60 card format events like standard F&M
spk_0
must be firing every week, right?
spk_0
You must be going to your RCQs and RCs and stuff like that.
spk_0
And you must be watching like competitive pro magic, right?
spk_0
Because if you think about how it actually went, remember wizards used to run events.
spk_0
And wizards like, it's too much money.
spk_0
We'll just give it to like some other companies to do it.
spk_0
Those other companies like, huh, wizards you fool.
spk_0
We took your monopoly.
spk_0
They ran the events and then the streams and then those were two partners and they cut the streams
spk_0
and then they got down the events, right?
spk_0
So we need to make sure that we're actually watching these events and supporting them
spk_0
monetarily, right?
spk_0
And we need to make sure we're playing like our local events, right?
spk_0
Because if all the RCQs oversell, they sell out, right?
spk_0
What would wizards do?
spk_0
Schedule more, right?
spk_0
And then we would go to more of them and they would schedule even more.
spk_0
I remember when Grand Prix used to be like packed, you know, full,
spk_0
right?
spk_0
Like we need to oversell things such that wizards says,
spk_0
hey, you know, we got to make more of them.
spk_0
And then like eventually economies of scale kick in somewhere.
spk_0
But like if you just sit at home and complain and do nothing, then wizards is like,
spk_0
yeah, you're right.
spk_0
You're not doing anything.
spk_0
So I do think we actually need to play.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
And buy 60 card products.
spk_0
Like I don't know what that means.
spk_0
Like draft.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
I don't know if you all remember this, but I too enjoy a 60 card form.
spk_0
And I have.
spk_0
Yeah, you're part of life, right?
spk_0
You actually go to the people.
spk_0
I go out.
spk_0
What do you have?
spk_0
Yeah, I do think though there is one problem.
spk_0
Arena.
spk_0
I love arena.
spk_0
And I play it all day long.
spk_0
And unlike, I do not imagine most people are like me
spk_0
and like playing standard online.
spk_0
And then when they want to wind down, they go out by playing more standard.
spk_0
So I genuinely love playing standard, right?
spk_0
And so the, but the main thing here is arena kind of gets in the way of that.
spk_0
Because arena now is like, well, if you want to play standard,
spk_0
you just play it at home from the comfort of your own desk.
spk_0
You don't actually need to go out.
spk_0
And so because of that, it's like standard is almost kind of move towards this like,
spk_0
unless it's an RICQ, it's an online format.
spk_0
I mean, I think that's true, but I think you can still do the same thing online, right?
spk_0
Like if they see the arena numbers booming and everyone's playing standard,
spk_0
like that still would send that message, right?
spk_0
Or they do.
spk_0
I hope so.
spk_0
Opens and tons of people like, because I think you just want the line to be going up.
spk_0
And I think we've seen the line for commander be going way up lately.
spk_0
And casual play be going way up lately.
spk_0
But the line for competitive playing 60 card play has been going the opposite direction.
spk_0
And I think if we want to save those formats,
spk_0
it really is on us to like, to just play them and support them to the point that wizards
spk_0
can't deny that it would be profitable to support them as well.
spk_0
Basically, like, look at commander.
spk_0
And we got to the reverse commander like commander started with some friends,
spk_0
you know, playing this format that they made up by themselves and it ended up
spk_0
becoming the biggest format in all of magic over the course of 20 years.
spk_0
It's possible to do, right?
spk_0
It's possible that if everyone just support standard or modern or pioneer,
spk_0
wizards will get along with that and they will princess for it.
spk_0
And they will like look at modern horizons.
spk_0
They started modern horizons to be able to like sell modern stuff
spk_0
because modern was so popular.
spk_0
So we know it can work.
spk_0
Oh, it's hard.
spk_0
You know, you don't have modern horizons.
spk_0
They need to collapse the formats.
spk_0
Standard is the only way to play.
spk_0
Like it made sense before when everyone played 60 card formats.
spk_0
They're like, okay, we'll get like modern, we'll get pioneer,
spk_0
we get legacy, we'll get vintage, draft, whatever.
spk_0
And we can split the player base many ways because everyone played that.
spk_0
Now that no one plays any of this.
spk_0
And then you fragment it.
spk_0
It makes it extremely difficult.
spk_0
Like people just tap out of modern RCQ season or whatever
spk_0
because I'm like, I'm not buying a modern deck.
spk_0
I'm like, eh, right?
spk_0
Or I'm not going to play standard or whatever.
spk_0
It should just be one format for competitive.
spk_0
And you can keep the other formats as casual,
spk_0
like, you know, like popper support level, right?
spk_0
But for competitiveness, one format until we're back on our legs
spk_0
because the the player base is too small now to to
spk_0
split into so many cues.
spk_0
I don't know about I don't know about one.
spk_0
I would probably have standard and then modern or like one format
spk_0
where you can play like most of the cards and then the like a format
spk_0
that's like for the newer cards.
spk_0
But I wonder for you seeing this because there's been a lot of
spk_0
angst about pioneer lately, like the last couple of years.
spk_0
This year there was no pro tours or no qualifiers.
spk_0
They announced next year.
spk_0
There's no pro tours.
spk_0
Maybe Wizards is already doing this without announcing it, right?
spk_0
Like maybe they're realizing that pioneer,
spk_0
like just it made sense 10 years ago when 60 card formats were booming.
spk_0
But now it would be better if it didn't exist.
spk_0
And those players played standard or modern instead.
spk_0
And you kind of funneled all the 60 card players into the same place
spk_0
or same couple of places.
spk_0
We need eternal weekend for pioneer and water.
spk_0
Just like one time a year,
spk_0
Ariel had to place fire here.
spk_0
It comes out.
spk_0
It has the greatest time of their life.
spk_0
And then they just go to hiding again for another year.
spk_0
And that actually is another way that we could make this happen.
spk_0
Like the 60 card people could make this happen.
spk_0
Like look at eternal weekend.
spk_0
That is a big event that is thrown by.
spk_0
And we see this with like Buffalo chip and chicken to blood.
spk_0
We see we see these small like small tournament organizers
spk_0
basically making those formats work and doing these things.
spk_0
We can do that with other formats.
spk_0
Like if there is demand for it and we can fill the building,
spk_0
someone will throw a tournament for standard or pioneer or modern,
spk_0
whatever format you want to play.
spk_0
So maybe maybe it requires that too.
spk_0
Just like the community taking up that mantle on their own
spk_0
of like hosting these tournaments.
spk_0
But that requires people showing up for them.
spk_0
Because no one's going to spend the money to host an event
spk_0
if you know 10 people are going to show up.
spk_0
I still haven't played a single game of paper standards.
spk_0
That my $200 deck investment.
spk_0
My LGS does not fire.
spk_0
My LGFB someday.
spk_0
That's crazy.
spk_0
You'll get to play that game.
spk_0
That is that is well played.
spk_0
As soon as it rotates.
spk_0
As soon as my deck rotates.
spk_0
I heard it a bit Richard.
spk_0
Cump.
spk_0
So I think there's one other way that things could change.
spk_0
Because the way I view magic right now is it's under a lot of pressure to
spk_0
basically support Hasbro.
spk_0
I did a whole video on this last week about just like
spk_0
how much of Hasbro's bottom line comes from magic.
spk_0
But one thing that came up just a couple of days ago that I think is interesting is
spk_0
an article about how Hasbro is investing a billion dollars,
spk_0
which is a huge amount of money into gaming studios.
spk_0
And they're really trying to become a triple-lay gaming company
spk_0
where they're building these really big games.
spk_0
And they already were part of what Baldur's Gate that was really successful.
spk_0
We've seen Manapligo, not a triple-lay game,
spk_0
but be very successful as a mobile game.
spk_0
So we see them really fully embracing this.
spk_0
We're going to be a digital gaming company essentially.
spk_0
If this takes off, I think that could maybe take some of the pressure off magic.
spk_0
I think there's just so much pressure on the game and I'm a wizard right now.
spk_0
Just because they're responsible for so much of Hasbro's profit.
spk_0
But if we have another big game that's doing well,
spk_0
maybe that would take a little bit of the pressure off of magic.
spk_0
But what do you think, Richard? I know you sell this article.
spk_0
What do you think about the game studio idea?
spk_0
This pig's and slop person was such a visionary because here.
spk_0
I actually dug into the numbers because in our chat,
spk_0
we're talking about this billion dollar investment.
spk_0
We're like, yeah, Baldur's Gate 3, right?
spk_0
So did you know Baldur's Gate 3 has made roughly people are guessing $650 million.
spk_0
Now, if you don't know Baldur's Gate 3,
spk_0
you can check out our Patreon when we play it.
spk_0
But I would argue it's like one of the best games of all time.
spk_0
Like just like literally like best game period of all time.
spk_0
You can like, put it up there.
spk_0
It took like a million years to make or whatever.
spk_0
It's probably like a once in a lifetime thing.
spk_0
You probably can't replicate this.
spk_0
$650 million.
spk_0
Now, monopoly go.
spk_0
I don't know what it is, but I'm pretty sure it's slop.
spk_0
Okay. It's like monopoly bovile game.
spk_0
It's made $5 billion.
spk_0
$5 billion.
spk_0
Okay?
spk_0
Monopoly go.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
It has made five six times as much money.
spk_0
What I'm sure is like a tiny fraction of the budget.
spk_0
And if I was a Hasbro second,
spk_0
I'm like, oh, I can reproduce monopoly go.
spk_0
Right? I would not sit there and be like, yeah,
spk_0
I can remake Baldur's Gate 3.
spk_0
Okay?
spk_0
So this game studio is just going to make more monopoly goes.
spk_0
And they're going to rake in $5 billion over like two years.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
Like that is an insane amount of money.
spk_0
And that's kind of slop.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
Like, you know, like Baldur's Gate 3 is your fine stake.
spk_0
Monopoly goes the slot like anyone even like,
spk_0
can I search Metacritic?
spk_0
I don't even know how you find a review of Monopoly go.
spk_0
But you know, I'm pretty sure it's going to be terrible, right?
spk_0
But it makes money hand over fist.
spk_0
And that's what Wizards is going to do or Hasbro's going to do.
spk_0
So I don't think this means we're getting AAA titles on a Hasbro.
spk_0
I think we're going to get more Monopoly goes.
spk_0
And will that fix magic?
spk_0
I don't think so.
spk_0
I think they'll just keep having magic trudge along as it is.
spk_0
I'll just make more money, right?
spk_0
But like magic arena is not, you know, Hasbro's digital darling.
spk_0
It's not even Baldur's Gate 3.
spk_0
It's Monopoly go, right?
spk_0
And that's like the sloppiest of slopp, right?
spk_0
So it is.
spk_0
I think part of what they're trying to do is begin with an Opligo is,
spk_0
so Monopoly go, the license their Monopoly IP to another studio.
spk_0
So they're just making a cut off that, right?
spk_0
Like, yes, they generate a huge amount of revenue.
spk_0
But a big chunk of that's going to the people who actually built the game.
spk_0
And I don't remember the name of the company I had you here before.
spk_0
The Scop Scop Lee, Scop Lee, I think is a company,
spk_0
the developer that they actually licensed the Monopoly IP to.
spk_0
I imagine that making these studios,
spk_0
much like selling magic cards directly through Amazon or secret layer drops,
spk_0
is a way that Wizards can or Hasbro can actually get all that money, right?
spk_0
If you actually own the IP and make the game and sell the game,
spk_0
then that five billion is going into your pocket,
spk_0
rather than you just getting some licensing fee off of it.
spk_0
So I imagine that's part of what they're going for.
spk_0
I would also say they have shouted out their building,
spk_0
a triple a game called Exodus that's supposed to come out next year.
spk_0
So there are at least some attempts at triple a games in here.
spk_0
It's not all good, but Monopoly goes.
spk_0
But I'm sure that Monopoly goes are also going to be a big part of it.
spk_0
What do you think, Crim?
spk_0
Or go ahead, Richard.
spk_0
I was just, what was it like Hasbro one or like,
spk_0
what was that thing that they finished writing off after like a billion dollar?
spk_0
E1.
spk_0
E1.
spk_0
Yes, they bought E1 studios.
spk_0
What if it's another E1?
spk_0
Yeah, that's, that's actually come out of E1.
spk_0
They got to keep the IP of Peppa the Pig.
spk_0
And I think a couple other IPs that they kind of
spk_0
splashed on before they were sold.
spk_0
They're so good.
spk_0
That's it.
spk_0
Peppa the Pig.
spk_0
It was considered to be a huge loss.
spk_0
Like they got some IPs that they kept out of it when they sold it,
spk_0
but they they lost billions of dollars on it from everything that you can read about it.
spk_0
Even getting to keep those IPs.
spk_0
Well, then
spk_0
Peppa the Pig is their savior, I guess.
spk_0
Peppa Pig go mobile games.
spk_0
It's gonna turn it all around.
spk_0
The other part that scares me about this and I don't know.
spk_0
I'm not super into the video game industry,
spk_0
but I know what I see just come across my social media.
spk_0
Is a lot of people talking about like,
spk_0
games studios not doing well.
spk_0
People getting laid off and like,
spk_0
this is a tough time to be making triple-eating games.
spk_0
It makes me worry about the timing of throwing a billion dollars that
spk_0
really came from magic, honestly,
spk_0
because that's the only thing that's making them a ton of money.
spk_0
So so taking some of your magic profits and then
spk_0
putting into gaming studios in 2025 kind of seems like a risky investment to me,
spk_0
but I don't know.
spk_0
Like is the gaming industry doing better than I think?
spk_0
I think if it's a live service game,
spk_0
I think live service games have done a very good job of just making,
spk_0
first off, it's free usually, right?
spk_0
And then they get you with all the skins.
spk_0
That's how they do that.
spk_0
But like when it comes to triple-e titles,
spk_0
dude, it takes a lot for me to spend $70 on a game.
spk_0
Which is like really weird because like,
spk_0
I'm sure some people will say the exact same thing I've just said,
spk_0
and then go and spend like $200 on the skin, right?
spk_0
So but like there is something funny about that.
spk_0
But I will say that I think that right now it really does take a lot to make $70.
spk_0
Also get a console when I could just have my computer,
spk_0
which does everything anyways, right?
spk_0
And then just download some game and then play that for free and then just have fun that way.
spk_0
So I, the, okay, that's bad because as I say this,
spk_0
though, I did just buy a $70 game.
spk_0
But I bought Silent Hill F.
spk_0
So prior to Silent Hill, I had not bought anything,
spk_0
triple-e, actually, it's not even triple-e.
spk_0
It is a Konami game.
spk_0
I forget because the one prior to this was.
spk_0
It is.
spk_0
It is a triple-e, but like prior to this was like a studio's like passion project
spk_0
to pretty much remake Silent Hill too.
spk_0
So I, I don't buy many triple-e games though.
spk_0
Like the ones I do buy are usually just like, I buy like maybe one a year, two a year.
spk_0
Interesting.
spk_0
It's like making Hollywood blockbuster movies.
spk_0
They cost a lot of money and it's high risk.
spk_0
And normally you just reuse some highly profitable IP,
spk_0
none of which magic has, right?
spk_0
So it's easier to just make a direct Netflix like exclusive, right?
spk_0
You know, and it's like nice and cheap and like make its money back.
spk_0
But I would be shocked if they make triple-e titles.
spk_0
I think this is all fancy talk to just make another monopoly go.
spk_0
Just like how magic arena is a top three esports, right?
spk_0
It's just like fancy words.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
The world.
spk_0
The world.
spk_0
Is it direct in that Flix movie?
spk_0
Is that considered Slop?
spk_0
I'm curious.
spk_0
Does that fall under the Slop head?
spk_0
I want to say I got the right to Netflix.
spk_0
I can't even feed itself.
spk_0
You talk about how film is dead.
spk_0
How long-board media is dead.
spk_0
How YouTube killed film.
spk_0
How TikTok killed YouTube.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
How like a Reddit post.
spk_0
That's what you'll talk about.
spk_0
I'll watch TikTok video.
spk_0
A Reddit post.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
I just read the title and make bio-accusions.
spk_0
Okay?
spk_0
A 4-1 minute set.
spk_0
But it's too much.
spk_0
I imagine if you talked to some directors or something,
spk_0
you're like, yeah, people are stupid now.
spk_0
Go enjoy my 2.5 hour artsy movie.
spk_0
But most people are watching.
spk_0
Don't you watch some drama?
spk_0
Watch some drama.
spk_0
You already see that with modern storytelling.
spk_0
There's heavy handholding when it comes to a lot of the points
spk_0
and things that happen inside a movie.
spk_0
It's like, this is Bob.
spk_0
Instead of just letting you figure that out on your own,
spk_0
they have to tell you that this is Bob.
spk_0
This is what's happening.
spk_0
spk_0
But that is in that regards,
spk_0
I do think that modern storytelling is rough.
spk_0
It's in a bad spot.
spk_0
But however, I don't know if this might be bad for studios
spk_0
when you think about direct-to-netflix.
spk_0
Direct-to-netflix.
spk_0
Stuff?
spk_0
There has been good direct-to-you're a home streaming platform.
spk_0
spk_0
But studios care more about that than anything.
spk_0
Because then it's like, you're not going out to theaters.
spk_0
I do think that modern storytelling is bad.
spk_0
So, you know what?
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
I think everything's changing.
spk_0
And there's every medium and everything that you're getting into
spk_0
is finding new ways to adapt.
spk_0
And changing things up.
spk_0
So you're going to see a lot of things change.
spk_0
And that goes to whatever hobby it is.
spk_0
Yeah, I guess that's a good point.
spk_0
A lot of this stuff is not unique to magic.
spk_0
Even if we go all the way back to the, to the, the slap stuff
spk_0
for like the crossovers and the marketing and all that stuff.
spk_0
And this is something Mark Rosewater pointed out this week
spk_0
in one of his, one of his posts.
spk_0
It was pretty much like, hey, you guys realize that word?
spk_0
It's not like we're the only company that's doing crossovers.
spk_0
crossovers are like huge right now.
spk_0
Everyone's doing it.
spk_0
Everyone's making tons of money off this.
spk_0
This isn't like Wizards decided all of a sudden
spk_0
that we're going to become the universes beyond crossover people.
spk_0
We're just following a trend that is already proven
spk_0
to make tons of money in his popular and all other places.
spk_0
So why wouldn't we also be doing this?
spk_0
So I think it is important to note that it really,
spk_0
a lot of this stuff we're talking about,
spk_0
it isn't really unique to magic.
spk_0
And it is kind of just like a cultural thing
spk_0
to some extent right now.
spk_0
And where our culture is moving
spk_0
and technology and disruption and so forth.
spk_0
Anyway, one other question,
spk_0
one other question about next year before you get to some fish mail.
spk_0
I got a few fish mail to get to.
spk_0
I just realized this.
spk_0
So next year we're getting seven sets.
spk_0
Do you think that Elkamy exists next year?
spk_0
Do you think that?
spk_0
Because I feel like Elkamy outside of making Wizards money,
spk_0
I think a big part of the goal of it was
spk_0
to have more content arena, right?
spk_0
Like sets only release every three months.
spk_0
Arena gets solved really quick.
spk_0
We can release these Elkamy sets in between set releases
spk_0
to make sure arena players, you know,
spk_0
always have something new to play with.
spk_0
Do you think that's something that will continue
spk_0
in a world where you actually just get seven real sets?
spk_0
Like are you going to be trying to release Elkamy sets
spk_0
three weeks after set release to squeeze them in
spk_0
between seven sets a year?
spk_0
Or do you think they let Elkamy kind of fade away
spk_0
with this new schedule?
spk_0
How many cards do you have?
spk_0
The interns still available.
spk_0
Yes, the interview is that guy still there.
spk_0
Like the...
spk_0
How many cards are usually in Elkamy?
spk_0
Because I've kind of like,
spk_0
stopped paying attention to Elkamy to be completely honest.
spk_0
If it's like 20 or 25 cards.
spk_0
I want to say 130, something like that.
spk_0
That would be my guess.
spk_0
Personally, I do not see why,
spk_0
but I'm sure people play Alchemy in like the cards
spk_0
and like, Brawl and stuff.
spk_0
So I could see them still pushing out 20 cards, right?
spk_0
And like, with through the Omen paths,
spk_0
they have to still keep Alchemy around then, right?
spk_0
Or no, not really.
spk_0
They didn't do anything for this,
spk_0
this like Final Fantasy Alchemy or anything like that, right?
spk_0
I'm pretty sure there is no Elkamy's for crossover sets.
spk_0
We've never had an Alchemy for a crossover set.
spk_0
So I guess they could theoretically,
spk_0
but I'd be surprised if they're going to pay more
spk_0
further license to make an Alchemy set on arena.
spk_0
Then yeah, it'll probably just stick to whatever
spk_0
in universe sets there.
spk_0
So in universe gets Alchemy still.
spk_0
It's the same then, right?
spk_0
Because half the sets will be universes beyond.
spk_0
And then the other half will be in universe.
spk_0
They get Alchemy.
spk_0
No one plays Alchemy except for me.
spk_0
So I can see why they would cut it off,
spk_0
but also I'm pretty sure they put no effort into it.
spk_0
But I actually really enjoyed Alchemy.
spk_0
And I was actually very disappointed.
spk_0
There's no Final Fantasy Alchemy.
spk_0
Because normally I draft the set.
spk_0
And then it gets boring, you get solved.
spk_0
You play the Alchemy draft.
spk_0
And then it adds like a little wrinkle to it.
spk_0
And you play that, right?
spk_0
If standard sucks, you play Alchemy.
spk_0
Like it's not...
spk_0
It's so casual that it doesn't matter.
spk_0
Like people say, like, oh, you know,
spk_0
Alchemy's not balanced, right?
spk_0
But I'm like, neither is standard.
spk_0
Right? So when you play standard for a week
spk_0
and then you're done, like, you know,
spk_0
the imbalances or whatever, like, show up.
spk_0
And then you're done with it, right?
spk_0
Then you can play Alchemy for a week.
spk_0
And then you're done with that.
spk_0
And then you can chill for the next set.
spk_0
Right? It gives you like another burst.
spk_0
Like, all magic to gathering is good in short bursts.
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
What really, when people say something is good,
spk_0
is like, can I play like 40 hours of it
spk_0
and not be bored of it?
spk_0
And it's very rare for magic to like hit that.
spk_0
Right? Like, maybe Final Fantasy drafted that, right?
spk_0
But most drafts, you're like, after 10 drafts,
spk_0
it's like kind of sucks, and I won't play anymore.
spk_0
Then you play Alchemy, right?
spk_0
Fun for like 10 drafts or so.
spk_0
And then if it's not balanced, it'll suck.
spk_0
And then you're done with it, right?
spk_0
So at this casual level, Alchemy, like, does its job.
spk_0
Right? The only complaint is it's expensive.
spk_0
Like, you got to pay more money for like all these things.
spk_0
But if you're just engaging with the formats
spk_0
at a casual level, it's great.
spk_0
Right? And if you're super enfranchised,
spk_0
you're probably bored of standard already.
spk_0
So you might as well try some Alchemy, right?
spk_0
So it's kind of actually somehow under marketed.
spk_0
And like, I told you guys just before,
spk_0
but like, people think Alchemy balances a meme?
spk_0
Standard balances a meme.
spk_0
It makes no difference, right?
spk_0
Like, you just see, you just like,
spk_0
ting pong between broken formats,
spk_0
and it gives you something fresh to do.
spk_0
So I actually hope they keep it going,
spk_0
but not at the expense of real resources, right?
spk_0
I don't want them to cut like standard testing
spk_0
or something to make Alchemy.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
But if they're just going to continue doing what they're going to do,
spk_0
like, am I as well just keep Alchemy going?
spk_0
I'm pretty sure it's actually just one person doing it.
spk_0
So like, whatever, right?
spk_0
The Remix traps are actually good point.
spk_0
I think that is like a legit upside for limited players
spk_0
to have like a Remix trap format.
spk_0
I don't know if there'd be another way to do it without doing it.
spk_0
Alchemy, but I could see how that would be really valuable,
spk_0
even to people who don't necessarily play
spk_0
the actual constructed format.
spk_0
So, and I'm interesting to see what they do with it.
spk_0
I expect Crim's probably right.
spk_0
I'd be surprised if they got rid of it all together
spk_0
because there are not a ton of people,
spk_0
but there are people who do play it.
spk_0
So I'd be surprised if they got rid of all together.
spk_0
But if they ever were going to, next year would be
spk_0
probably the year to do it.
spk_0
But let's move on and answer some fish mail.
spk_0
We got a couple of fish mail questions to get to.
spk_0
We're going to start off with one from Cole P,
spk_0
who sent me this through email, actually.
spk_0
Says, hey Seth, long time listen, fan.
spk_0
I've got a burning piece of fish mail.
spk_0
I'd love this squad's opinion on.
spk_0
It's someone who loves magic content.
spk_0
I find myself uniquely frustrated lately.
spk_0
As it seems like a lot of content is becoming outdated
spk_0
and more importantly,
spk_0
obsolete at a record pace.
spk_0
If I see a deck tech that was made as recently
spk_0
as six months ago,
spk_0
I find myself hesitating to watch it
spk_0
because the deck might be completely outdated
spk_0
or missing a new critical piece
spk_0
with a rapid influence of new cards.
spk_0
Decktags being just an example,
spk_0
I feel like this extends to basically all magic content
spk_0
is content creators.
spk_0
Does this impact what type of content you make?
spk_0
And if so, how much?
spk_0
I'm curious, Crim.
spk_0
What do you think like is the increasing release schedule
spk_0
had any influence on how you make content?
spk_0
Do you feel like it comes out?
spk_0
It gets outdated quicker.
spk_0
When it comes to gameplay,
spk_0
I find that like,
spk_0
I am not able to like fully,
spk_0
like by the time the next set comes out,
spk_0
I'm already trying to see if I need to repatch
spk_0
the first five decks that I made, right?
spk_0
From the prior season.
spk_0
So it's kind of like this thing where
spk_0
I don't think I've had enough time.
spk_0
To like fully sit down and dig into the like the depth
spk_0
and like of every set
spk_0
to figure out what's good or what's not before I go right back to like,
spk_0
well, maybe this is what makes Damiar good.
spk_0
Maybe this is what makes this good, right?
spk_0
But I do think that
spk_0
there is always a newer Damiar mid-range video
spk_0
and newer VV had to update VV video, right?
spk_0
So I do think that because of these release cycles
spk_0
and constant new things coming out,
spk_0
it's a new,
spk_0
an endless content to be made,
spk_0
but at the same time,
spk_0
outdating like a lot of stuff like the poster had asked.
spk_0
So I guess to put it all to title back,
spk_0
yeah, I don't know.
spk_0
I just make what I want to make
spk_0
and I don't really mind, right?
spk_0
Do you find yourself updating decks more, you think?
spk_0
Do you think you're more likely now than a few years ago
spk_0
to be like,
spk_0
I played this deck six months ago,
spk_0
but we've had three new cents since then.
spk_0
So I'm going to add some new cards to it
spk_0
and make another video of it.
spk_0
Or it hasn't that even changed,
spk_0
I've done that.
spk_0
Right, like this is a six month old deck.
spk_0
I'm going to try now to add four cards to it
spk_0
and see what happens, right?
spk_0
Obviously there's a lot of meme stuff
spk_0
that comes out with every set,
spk_0
like whether it's like you want to make
spk_0
jumbo cactar work or something like that and standard.
spk_0
There's always like the fun cards to make,
spk_0
but I equally like going back
spk_0
and just updating old deck lists.
spk_0
I've noticed that with myself,
spk_0
that's one place that it's changed for me is like,
spk_0
it used to be if I played a deck and then I look back
spk_0
through the decks I played and been like,
spk_0
I played that deck like a year ago.
spk_0
It's too recent.
spk_0
I'm going to give it a while longer before you revisit it.
spk_0
But now we get so many sets.
spk_0
There's some decks like six months later,
spk_0
I'm like, oh, like this deck is actually meaningfully different
spk_0
today because of the cards that have been printed.
spk_0
So I'm already going to do another version of this deck
spk_0
even though I just did a video of it,
spk_0
you know, five, six months ago now.
spk_0
So we think it's sped up things in that sense.
spk_0
I think the other thing that's done for me is
spk_0
it's made me, and I wanted to make this anyway.
spk_0
So it's not because of this,
spk_0
but I think it's an upside of it.
spk_0
But I think it's one of the upsides of making like
spk_0
some of the history videos and stuff like that.
spk_0
Because those are really, if you're talking about
spk_0
the best cards from 1997 or the best combos
spk_0
in the history of magic,
spk_0
that stuff just gets outdated way less quickly, right?
spk_0
Because it just doesn't change as much with each new set.
spk_0
So I think that's, it's also made those videos
spk_0
a little bit more, a little bit more makeable for me.
spk_0
But what about you, Richard?
spk_0
Any thoughts on this?
spk_0
It's too much noise to remember anything now.
spk_0
Like I distinctly remember playing in Australia,
spk_0
like Oji in Australia,
spk_0
because we had to sit there and play with it
spk_0
for like four months without interruption.
spk_0
And I distinctly remember
spk_0
doing edge of eternity's early access,
spk_0
early access, right?
spk_0
So before anyone's even played it,
spk_0
and we're already reading Spider-Man spoilers,
spk_0
and like I'm already done with edge of eternity's, right?
spk_0
And we already have avatar cards.
spk_0
We already have like all these secret layer cards,
spk_0
and has anyone had a chance to explore anything
spk_0
in Spider-Man or edge of eternity's,
spk_0
or even like outlaws of thunders,
spk_0
like anything, right?
spk_0
Like we really just look at like the top three cards,
spk_0
and before we're done reading them,
spk_0
like the next year of cards is out,
spk_0
and our attention has shifted.
spk_0
And I think long-term, that just means like,
spk_0
less memories, like less hardcore fans.
spk_0
Like I remember playing Threatska,
spk_0
I remember playing Liliana,
spk_0
I remember trying to find a four drop for my standard deck, right?
spk_0
And I was not reading like six months of spoilers at a time,
spk_0
like every single day.
spk_0
And that's gone, right?
spk_0
Like it doesn't even matter what's in Spider-Man,
spk_0
because I'm already onto Avatar.
spk_0
And really it doesn't even matter
spk_0
because I'm on a Star Trek, right?
spk_0
Like you know what I mean?
spk_0
Avatar is already so old at this point, right?
spk_0
Who cares?
spk_0
Did you know we know all the firebending,
spk_0
waterbending elemental bendings are?
spk_0
No one cares anymore because we're onto the office, apparently, right?
spk_0
So it's just this information overload, right?
spk_0
And it's not a magic problem, right?
spk_0
It's kind of like a societal issue.
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Like we have so much news today that everything just blurs together,
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and you don't have that like old people,
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O.J. Simpson, Chase, you know,
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we're like the whole,
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everyone in the world, like,
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everyone in America at least, like, you know,
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was focused on this one singular event
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because that's all we had.
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We turned on our TV,
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and that was the only thing there was.
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And we all focused on it,
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and we thought about it,
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and everyone had that shared experience.
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Now we just have like eight million pieces of news,
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and everyone's doing their own thing.
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And that's how it is with magic content.
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And I think long-term, we're not going to,
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we're not in 10 years,
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we're not going to talk about Spider-Man
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in the same way we talk about like Industrade,
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because we spent like five seconds on Spider-Man,
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whereas we actually spent like four months on Industrade, right?
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So that's what gets way to content.
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And even others, that's not even just Spider-Man.
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It's not that Spider-Man's uniquely bad side
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or something, but it already plays it with adjuvanturnities,
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or even Final Fantasy, the greatest set of all time,
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might not, might not be as memorable,
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as Industrade was back in its era,
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just because you're going to move on so quickly to the next thing.
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So yeah, that's a really good point.
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All right, one more fish male real quick.
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This one comes from Aunt Funk FU749,
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says,
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Heshagm2DGoldfish,
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I know you guys were originally
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if you on map tokens when they came out.
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Now, after two years,
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what are your thoughts on them?
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Krim.
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What about map tokens?
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What about map tokens?
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I forgot that we even were men at the time,
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but apparently we were.
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I'm going to trust you on this one, Funk.
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I mean, I do remember us talking about the fact
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that they are sorcery speed, right?
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Yes.
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The sorcery speed part is still annoying,
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but obviously I think it plays nicely, right?
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Now, having seen a bigger picture of standard,
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it leaving an additional game piece for you to interact with.
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We've seen this matter numerous times across the board,
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that map token off of spyglass siren,
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or in this case when I give the map off of Get Lost.
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These are downside.
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It is a real downside, right?
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I've actually really enjoyed how they've played so far,
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because in a way, they also allow the opponent
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or the person with the map to suit a surveil.
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It really adds to sequencing.
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There's lots of sequencing depth to gameplay
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when it comes to adding just a simple map token.
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So I've really enjoyed them now that I've had them.
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I like them too.
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I think they've played really well,
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and I like the, just as smooth as they add to that.
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And now that I've got to play them a bunch,
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I think the sorcery speed things perfectly fine too.
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I think it actually even makes sense to some extent
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to not have onboard combat tricks,
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like an instance speed during combat or whatever.
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So even with the sorcery speed restriction, I like them.
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I think they turn out pretty good.
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I would say power level or design wise.
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What do we get?
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I don't know.
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I would say, let's go with both.
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I like them from both points so far.
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I like them as a power level,
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because they don't seem so busted.
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That we have to ban every card that's using it.
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We're talking like a tune with Ether was banned.
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So it is powerful and that it leaves this extra game piece
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that adds in a whole different interaction
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or action you can take on each of your turns.
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Or you could sack, said, token, and do what?
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In a way, it feels lots of things.
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So I kind of really like it from all points.
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I really like it.
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I think anything that adds an extra game piece
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that costs at most one mana to activate.
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I think two mana is too heavy and like
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is not usable anymore.
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But anything at one mana,
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like starts adding a lot of choices.
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Like, do you, how do you play your curve?
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What do you do with your turn?
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You have multiples of these things.
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So even today, I still don't know how to evaluate them.
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Like, what do you really,
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like how much of a card do you count it for?
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Like, it's very hard to figure out.
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But it adds a lot of like thought.
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So I think we should make more.
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Like, I don't like food is another game piece.
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But at two mana, three life, it's like very expensive.
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But also like food, there's no choice.
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You always just crack it whenever you can.
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But like, I don't know what it could be.
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Like a one mana thing that
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surveils one or scryes one or something.
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Like even without the, you know,
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adding a plus one plus one.
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Like, I think it would be a very interesting game piece
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that just gives you more decision points,
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like every single game.
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And you can also just make multiples of them, too, right?
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Like, imagine if it was just like a scry one for one mana,
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but like your, your removal spell,
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it gave you two of them.
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And then you can just scry one,
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whatever you feel like.
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Even a sorcery speed,
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I think would be very interesting.
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So I think they should do more clues.
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Outdated to you, Richard?
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I'm curious.
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Do you think it's too expensive?
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Too expensive?
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Like you also can make it.
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You barely break your curve to crack a clue
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unless you're like super desperation mode.
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You know what I mean?
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Like two mana is a huge cost
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that you usually don't do to like,
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you know, you're out of gas
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and then you break the clue,
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unless you're like actually digging for something.
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Whereas like one mana, I think.
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So I don't know how you would split it,
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but I want more one mana.
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Well, one mana thing is that you can actually play.
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One mana.
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One mana means sorcery speed
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is what I'm going to assume.
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And then two mana you can then add
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and like maybe you could crack it whenever.
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I don't know though,
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because I mean, we're going to go
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way along on this fish mail,
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but weren't bloods in some speed.
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And those are one mana.
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So I don't think there's a hard rule
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that they won't be and I can't be at in some speed.
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I'm going to stop them.
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You're back.
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But I don't know about that.
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People still play blood type harvester
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and everyone's favorite pioneer format.
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That's because this blood type harvester.
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Blood type harvester itself is good, right?
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Yeah, that's true.
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It's a good guard.
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But anyway,
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I think those are our fish mail for this week.
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Thanks for sending in the questions.
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Richard, how do people send in more questions for the future?
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Right.
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Hit us up at MTG Goldfish with the hashtag
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MTGFishmail and we'll get to your questions on air.
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And I believe that brings us to the end
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of episode 556 of MTG Goldfish Podcast.
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So Richard Grim, thanks for hanging out.
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Thanks everyone for listening.
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Thanks to our sponsors for supporting the show.
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And we'll be back next week
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to talk about whatever goes on in the world of magic.
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So until then,
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have an amazing week, everyone.
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And this is a gruesome now.