Luke Fickell on OSU Playing Days, Rose Bowl, and Building Cincinnati's Program

Interactive Transcript

Speaker A I've got a bunch of boys. Finally got some, some young guys that are wrestling. I'm not sure this is a great parenting tip, but my older boys play basketball and you know how it is, they get done with a basketball game, they're in seventh grade and they come up and you're riding with them home and I'm like, what happened boys? Well, you know, we missed so and so missed a free throw at the end of the game or we'd have won. And I'm like pulling my hair out and I'm like, no, I want you guys to know something. Had you been wrestling, you'd have got in this car with a bloody nose and a blood black eyed. And you know exactly why you lost and what exactly happened because you're the only one out there. My wife looks at me and thinks I'm absolutely insane. And we finished and we drive home and I think the boys by now just kind of chuckle at it, but I hope they understand what I mean. It's a sport where there's no hiding. You're going to be one on one and everything is going to be exposed foreign.

Speaker B This episode of beyond the X's Nose is brought to you by Baya Energy Drinking. Welcome back to beyond the X's Nose. And today's guest is coach Luke Fickle from the University of Cincinnati. And boy is that this might be my favorite conversation to this point. We talk about growing up in Columbus, Ohio and how big high school football was like we do with every coach. We talked about wrestling. We really get into the value of wrestling. He was a three time state champion wrestler. Talks about the goal setting he had as a young person wanting to be a four time state champion because he wasn't. Some of the lessons he learned on that journey. Talked about how he gets to Ohio State. Obviously play with these incredible players at Ohio State goes through a laundry list of NFL pro bowlers and hall of Famers. They had the fortune to play with his coaching journey which was accelerated. He gets a room at a really young age at Akron and what he learned from that getting back to Ohio State. He has one of the most unique first head coaching experiences. He was the interim in 2011. He gets into how the Buckeye world was kind of turned upside down and how he approached that year and some of the mistakes he made. But please, the meat of this conversation comes late in the show. Coach as good a job as anybody I've ever talked to about admitting a mistake that he made his first year as the head football coach at the University of Cincinnati. And he goes so far to say that, listen, I messed this thing up. I went in with a mentality of compete, compete, compete, and I lost what the one big thing was. And he goes on for about five minutes about what building a team is all about. If you're a CEO, if you're a player, if you're a coach, if you're in any leadership position, you must listen to this piece that Coach Fickle shares with us. The mistake he made and how he corrected it, and the revelatory dinner he had with his seniors that kind of enlightened him to where he had missed the mark with his football team. He talks about what it means to be a Bearcat. And forever in my mind, this idea of earn it, own it, represent it will be seared into my memory because that's the core values of Cincinnati football. Guys, I'm telling you, we've had some great conversations. In my opinion, this is the best one yet. I hope you enjoy as much as I did. Well, super pumped to have coach Luke Fickle from Cincinnati Bearcats on with us today. And I've gotten an O coach pretty well through the recruiting process, so I'm excited to hear all the things he's done in Cincinnati, but even go back to his. His playing days, and I'm really excited to talk about his playing days. So, coach, let's start there. First of all, thanks for being on.

Speaker A I'm glad. Appreciate you having me. And if we're going back, you know how that works. You know, we always got a. A lot better now that we're a little bit older. So the further back you go, the better you were.

Speaker B Well, let's do that. Let. Let's. Let's trick the audience and tell everybody how great you were at St. Francis. DeSales High School, Columbus, Ohio. Big football State. What was Friday nights like? Friday nights like at Desales?

Speaker A Well, we were fortunate since we actually got to play on Friday nights because I was. My. My freshman year was the first year we actually had a stadium. So before that, you know, some of the private Catholic schools didn't have stadium, so they'd have to rent the field, so we would always play on Saturday nights. But I was fortunate enough, obviously, to be able to play on Friday nights, and it was a big deal. And I was. Like I said, it's a school that my parents both went to. Historically, it had a great football program. Only had one state championship under their belt when I was there, but then. Not. Not when I was there, but since then, has Obviously added a few others, but it was a big deal. Sports in general were a big deal. Wrestling was, was a big part of it too. But nonetheless the passion for me grew in football there at the sales.

Speaker B Now what was that first varsity start like? Because there's so many young kids listening, watching this pod and maybe they haven't had their first varsity start yet. So what was that first varsity start like?

Speaker A You know what? I, I don't know that I can remember the first varsity start of a free of a true game. I remember the, the probably the first varsity kind of scrimmage my sophomore year. I didn't play as a, you know, varsity as a freshman, but the first varsity scrimmage my, my sophomore year we went against, we were a division kind of two or three team, which is not the biggest division and we played a big public school division one. I do remember the very first play that I was a tight end and instead of actually blocking the guy, I cut the guy. And I just think back to like, well what. I think it was a panic. It was, you know, exactly what you got to do. There's this big guy across from your 190 pound sophomore tight end and there's some 240 pound defense event across from you. And for some reason I cut it again. Think I gave her cut after that. But I remember the first play of saying why in the world did I cut? There was something that went through my head. So this might be the easy route and unfortunately I did it. It's not legal to cut.

Speaker B This is the part I've been most excited about because we've had a bunch of big time coaches on the pod and most of them are your pretty boy quarterbacks, your wide receivers, maybe a secondary player here or there, but very few. War daddy, three time state champion wrestler, in the hand, in the dirt, guys. So I want to hear all about the wrestling experience. Three time state champion. I mean that must have been the biggest part of your life. Yes.

Speaker A And we don't have enough time because when you get me rolling onto some of that, that's, that just keeps going. But I started at a very young age and probably four or five years old. My uncle was a high school wrestling coach. My dad helped him out. So from. I don't even know when I can remember, I was a wrestler. And I remember as a kindergartner, 1980, I think it was 80 or 81. And a guy from that won the first ever four time state championship from the Sales High school. Guy named Mark Zimmerman. And right then and there I remember making my goal to be a four time state wrestling champ. And you know, obviously all those years pushing up through it and my biggest failure of my whole life, that has changed me and motivated me even today is my freshman year, picked to win the state championship and I choked, didn't get it done. And it was a real crossroads for me since I think I was what, six years old when I made that, made that first goal of mine and worked it all the way up until that, you know, probably 14, 15 years old until it was, it was crushed. But it made me who I am and continues to drive me today.

Speaker B That's awesome. I want to dive in this a little bit more because I mean, being a great wrestler, but also understanding the value of wrestling. We've talked on this about basketball players and baseball players and soccer players, like lacrosse players, but we haven't gone down and dirty with wrestling. What is the ultimate value of wrestlers as it relates to football?

Speaker A There's nobody to point a finger at. There's nobody that's really going to help you in that five, six, seven, eight, whatever minutes it is on your own. And I use it as a father today, unfortunately, I don't have, I've got a bunch of boys. Finally got some, some young guys that are wrestling, but I'm not sure this is a great parenting tip. But, but my older boys play basketball and you know how it is, they get done with a basketball game, they're in seventh grade and they come off and you're riding with them home. And I'm like, what happened, boys? Well, you know, we missed so and so missed a free throw at the end of the game or we'd have won. And I'm like pulling my hair out and I'm like, no, I want you guys to know something. Had you been wrestling, you'd have, you'd have got in this car with a bloody nose and a black eye. And you know exactly why you lost and what exactly happened because you're the only one out there and you have nobody else to worry about. But right now you get in the car and point the finger at somebody else and say, well, they'd have just made their free throws, we'd have won. When in reality, you know, you'd have been taught a lot different lesson in a different way had we been wrestling and my wife looks at me and thinks I'm absolutely insane. And we finish and we drive home and I think the boys by now just kind of chuckle at it, but I hope they understand what I mean. It's a sport where there's no hiding. You're going to be one on one and everything is going to be exposed.

Speaker B Well, I don't know if you remember this, but you were in my office. I don't know whatever that was. When you were able to go on the road for recruiting and we had this conversation about wrestling and you sold me at that time. And Lipscomb Academy, where I'm at, has not had wrestling. I think it's for like seven years. And after you left the office, I went up to administration and said, we are getting wrestling back. And just so you know, we now are going to relaunch our wrestling program because I too see the value. I think it's incredible. I'm a big fan of basketball, big fan of baseball. We love dual sport athletes around here. But you're right, there's something unique about. There's nowhere to point the finger. It's me versus you, the accountant. Self accountability that comes with this, the toughness. I also think the hand work, the bending, the grappling, all those things translate to really good interior players. Fullbacks, tight ends, linebackers. I'm a big fan, so I've been excited about this conversation because of the wrestling. Now, you obviously parlayed those three state championship championships as a wrestler, obviously a very good high school football player. You go through recruiting process and now you're living the other end of it. Tell the audience about your recruiting process that ultimately landed you at Ohio State.

Speaker A Well, I. My kind of passion changed, I think, after my junior year and, you know, kind of things started a little bit later back then. Meaning that like, you usually you played like maybe it was a little bit faster for you obviously as a quarterback and. But you played kind of your junior year and that's when the recruiting kind of started. So my passion kind of really changed as recruiting people started coming in to recruit me as a football player because I'd always just envisioned myself as wrestler and wrestling in college. And after that junior year when, you know, they actually start to talk to you and start to recruit you, I kind of sense my passion switching and changing. I wasn't a guy that went to a bunch of football camps because I was wrestling all summer and doing that. But I know that for a fact that after that junior year, my mindset kind of switched into what it is that I wanted to do and played my senior year. And, you know, I was going to go straight from football into wrestling because that was always my sport. So there wasn't a whole lot of time I probably had, you know, a couple weekends where you'll carve out to say, hey, okay, I might have an open weekend because of a wrestling tournament. But I wasn't one of those guys that had said, okay, football's the thing I'm going to miss, you know, whatever it is I have to miss. And so I was still stuck in the wrestling. So it really kind of only carved out two weekends. And for me, it happened to be, you know, in state. So it was Ohio State and Michigan that really became the idea for me because in the back of that head, there was a little bit of that, well, maybe you can wrestle in college too. So anybody that, you know, was talking to you that didn't have wrestling, you were kind of like, nah, this is going to help me kind of funnel and figure out which way I want to go. And, you know, it just, it is what it is. But it, it became pretty clear to me what was the best fit for me at that time.

Speaker B That's awesome. When we come back from our first break, we'll talk to Coach Fickle about his career at Ohio State and how that ended up launching his coaching careers as well.

Speaker A We'll be right back.

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Speaker A What was unique, I. I was as a true freshman, you know, just to kind of even Go back before that. As a true freshman. I was a guy that got some way, somehow got in the mix. I started, I came in as a defensive end, you know, it was a tight end as a defense man. And I call it the DE evolution. And I slowly moved closer to that ball based on how well I ran and, and I made it to the nose guard spot. And I probably was one couple days or steps away from switching sides of the ball there, but I, I kind of made it into the nose guard spot and it was, it was funny. It was kind of a three technique or nose guard. And there was a guy named Dan, Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson. And he was a red shirt freshman. I was a true freshman. And he ended up, you know, he was just big daddy then. And we went into the first game and I actually, you know, they said, okay, well, I got getting a start as a true freshman and. But we were rolling every three plays with. He was just Dan Wilkinson then. But by halfway through that first game against Louisville, the D line coach came over to me and kind of tapped me on the shoulder. And he was our, he was actually our defensive coordinator at the time too. And he said, you know what, we're going to leave him in there. We're not going to roll every three plays. Just wait to go back in until I tell you. And I just, I just remember my head, I'm like, he's already had two tackles, I think two hurries, maybe even a sack. And I was thinking to myself, like, it's taking you almost a quarter and a half to figure that out. I can see it. So I end up getting hurt after that. Ended up red shirting the rest of the year. So got a medical red shirt. Obviously. Dan Wilkinson went on to be the number one player taken in the draft. And then that's kind of what the evolution. The next year I played nose guard inside of him and you know, I don't think I knew any different. Some people would say, well, why are you playing nose guard £260 when the three techniques, 305 or £10. You know what, I don't think I knew any different. And you know, I was fortunate enough to kind of, you know, find a niche there of a guy that, you know, could kind of drop the levels and take on some double teams and hold a point and make sure those guys behind it became all Americans and really good football players. And, you know, not until. I don't think I really ever got hurt again. Little things until, until probably right before the last game my senior year and.

Speaker B Well, I got to believe going back to wrestling. I gotta go. I gotta believe going back to the wrestling and being 260, 65 pounds, playing. I'm guessing you're playing a shade, you're playing a zero, sometimes a two technique, that the hand work, that the grappling, that the leverage, all those things allowed you to thrive, even though you may not have been 3:10, 3:15 like that traditional position.

Speaker A I think there's no doubt. I don't think there's anything better for big guys in particular. And it's not. It's balance, it's leverage. But I think for me, starting at a young age, I wasn't, you know, the fastest or the strongest in some of those natural, you know, muscle fibers, I would say. But the thing it did for me was a core strength that was learned and developed over a period of time. Because wrestling is a unique sport. You know, with. With all the body movements and the hand to hand combat and, and the things that you do over a long period of time. I think core strength is something that people don't talk enough about. There's people obviously genetically really gifted and fast and things like that. But what, you know, inside in particular, playing defensive line, offensive line, I think a core strength that allows you to play in a good position and stay grounded with feet in the ground, whether it's leverage or not. I think that's something that the sport of wrestling really helped develop for me, which allowed me, you know, not being a gigantic guy, to be able to play and stay healthy in there. Because when you can, you know, have some strength in the core and keep a good body position and leverage it, you can stay out of harm's way as much as. As much as you possibly can in there.

Speaker B Well, you obviously did at a very high level, and you play with a really neat group of players. Back then, you guys got to do something that not many people can say they did, and that's playing the granddaddy of them all, the Rose Bowl. Not talk to me about that game, but also give some shout outs to some of the great players you played with on that Rose bowl team.

Speaker A Well, there were some. Even before that, we had a crew of guys that, you know, that everybody could talk about on the offensive side. The year before, you know, we had two tackles that were both, could be hall of Famers and Corey Stringer, who obviously passed away in the NFL way too early, and Orlando Pace, who is a Hall of Famer. And the guys in the back end there getting the ball was Eddie George the quarterback was Bobby Hoying, the tight end was Ricky Dudley. And oh, by the way, Terry Glenn was a wide receiver out there. I mean, it's, it's a who's who in a lot of those situations. And you know, us guys over on the defensive side, there was a slew of them too. And obviously head coach down there at Tennessee, Coach Mike Vrabel was a defensive end on, on that team. And Sean Springs, who was, I think a top 10 pick, played for eight, nine years in the NFL. So slew of those that, you know, were obviously great, not just college football players that played the next level as well. And to me, more than anything, that's what. And you know, that's what a locker room is made up of. Yes, there are some great guys that play in the NFL, but there are great people that really found a way to kind of work together to have success on the field. And, you know, they can bring guys like me that might not be as talented as them. They really help you raise your level in everything that you do as well. So we were. I was one of those guys that's fortunate enough the last time to take off that college jersey to be at a special place like that in the Rose bowl and to win the game and even the way that which we won it, that's something I'll never forget.

Speaker B Let's have some fun with Coach Varel because you played with them, you coached them. I've known him forever. Any. What's your favorite coach variable story? Oh, my goodness.

Speaker A We better not even go there. But it's funny, just. I was down in Dallas probably three weeks ago and there was a. There was an event for Gene Stallings. So it's, it's a, it's a little bit of a coaches thing at a coach's award, but it's in honor of Gene Stallings. And obviously Gene Stallings was a great coach and a great player. And I got to spend 45 minutes to an hour with Coach Stallings and, and I told him, I said, well, the last time I really was ever around you was his Alabama team in the 94 Citrus Bowl. And I was telling him the story. I remember vividly and was kind of recapping the Jay Barker and Sherman Williams was the tailback, Jay Barker was the quarterback. And I told the story. I said, I remember that you guys beat us on an angle route to win the game, I think in the fourth quarter. And it just happened to be. Coach Mike Vrabel was supposed to take Sherman Williams out of the Backfield got beat on an angle route for a touchdown. And all I Remember is a 1994 citrus bow was lost because. Because I was doing my job in there at the nose guard position. And VRA let Sherman Williams run past him on an angle route for a touchdown. That's how I remember it.

Speaker B Well, that's good coaching by Alabama to put Sherman Williams on angle out. Should stay. Didn't.

Speaker A Maybe. Maybe he thought he was supposed to have some help in there.

Speaker B Exactly. So you play a year in the NFL because of an injury, your time gets cut short and you land back at your alma mater as a graduate assistant.

Speaker A Get.

Speaker B Give me one of the biggest lessons you learned that first year. Putting the coach's hat on.

Speaker A Well, I would say my, you know, I don't know that it got cut short. I think it's a. It's an easy transition for a guy like me to say, well, I got hurt, cut short, but, you know, I'm not that far removed that I'm. I'm good enough to really been there for a while yet. Maybe in a few more years, the story will embellish a little bit more. But I did. So it made it easier for me to, in some ways, kind of hang it up and recognize it's time to move on with life because of the. Because of an injury. But it kind of took me, you know, the injury itself really helped me kind of figure out where I wanted to go because I had this vision of, you know, I would never want to be a coach. I was. I was always gonna. I'm gonna go back to school. I was gonna be a doctor. I was gonna go to med school. I was gonna be an optometrist all the way through college. That was. That was the plan. And, you know, when the game stops and when it's taken away from you, I think that's when I first realized, you know, really where my passion was. I never, ever had thought about coaching. It's funny that we just talked about Mike Vrabel because he has always said that he was going to coach. And we lived together for four years in college. And I always said, why would you do. That's crazy. I would never do that. Here's what I'm doing. And I always had that plan. And I remember laying after I blew my knee out and training camp in Wisconsin, because New Orleans obviously went to west for their training camp. And that's when it really. The first real time I started to reflect and try to think about what I was really going to do when this Thing ended and I started to really kind of remember back to all those guys that had such a huge impact on my life outside of my parents. And they were all coaches. Whether it was, you know, my uncle who started coaching me in wrestling when I was about five years old, all the way up through little league football, I was coached by a guy named John Hicks, who was obviously an Outland Trophy winner, second in the Heisman as an offensive lineman, was a great player at Ohio State. But, you know, to my high school coach, to all my college coaches, and it really kind of hit me that, wow, this has been such a part of my life. Not just, not just football, but coaching in general and those guys. And I remember laying there in Wisconsin thinking, okay, you know what? My passion changed. I'm going to be a coach. And that's where when this thing is over, whether I'm healthy, get healthy, whatever, I'm going to be a coach. And as I rehabbed, that's what I started doing. I went back to Ohio State. I volunteered. As I continued to rehab through that next year, trying to, you know, get some opportunities to continue to play. And it became really evident to me that this was the route I wanted to go because of what those coaches had meant in my life. And I always tell people, I said, those who can, do, those who can't, coach. So at some point in time, if you have that passion and that love and you need it that bad, once it's taken away from you, you gotta stay in some version of it.

Speaker B I agree. And at a young age, you get launched. So you do your one year GA role and then you get launched pretty early to have your own room at Akron for a young coach, getting your own room, defensive line room, what was that like?

Speaker A It was a huge step. Actually, the best thing happened too, along that line is I was a GA at Ohio State for one semester and I was a GA for all the guys I played that had coached me. And there was an opportunity for me possibly to get hired on at Ohio State. The defensive line coach or the defensive ends coach left. And I remember Coach Pug kind of saying, I'm going to push for them to hire you. And you know, you're 24 years old and you're thinking, yeah, this is perfect. Yes, yes, yes. And it didn't happen. And as I look back at it, it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Had I not left and experienced a lot of different things, I'm sure I would not be where I am today. So the best thing that Happened to me in coaching was coach John Cooper didn't hire me right away. He allowed me to go and kind of learn what the business is really like. And I actually got hired by another guy that. That had coached in college, not coached me. He coached the offensive line at Ohio State, but he was the head coach of the University of Akron and hired me as the defensive line coach. And, you know, I just knew that I had to kind of develop who I was and what. How I was going to go about it. And, well, I made a lot of mistakes, I do remember. But there were some things, first and foremost that I remember. Probably my first two years, it was all about trying to make the connection with the group of guys I had, getting them to trust, respect, and love me, and me do the same in return so that I could coach them. Whether I had all the experience in the world or I really had no experience, I recognized with the kind of group of guys that I had that if we didn't have a trust, respect and love, there was no chance for either of us, any of us growing in the process.

Speaker B I love that. That's such a true statement, too. Just the art of coaching is so much more than the X's and O's. It sounds like that's what you learned early on, and it takes you back to Ohio State and you coach a multiple amount of positions at Ohio State as well as special teams. That had been valuable. But then I want to Fast forward to 2011, because really, the entire Buckeye nation got turned upside down that year. And most people know the story. If you don't, you can Google it, but all of a sudden you fall off as the interim head coach. And we've talked to a lot of coaches about what that first experience was like, and some have unique stories, some have common stories, but yours might be the most unique. All of a sudden, here you are, you're the CO dc and now you're gonna be on the interim head coach. Walk me through just what that experience was like and then take me onto the field for that first game. When you are the head coach coach.

Speaker A I mean, there's so much that went along with that. I think more than anything, you know, it was a really unique and difficult situation because not just are you kind of taking over, you know, whether it's interim or not, you're taking over for, in my opinion, a guy that's unique and was the best I've ever been around in Jim Trestle and in the way that he did it. And so for the next Two months. You know, everybody has that dream, hey, I want to be a head coach. I want to be a head coach. And people say point time. You know, you're not ready yet to be a head coach. Well, I can tell you I don't know what you can do to get yourself ready. It's like being a father, right? You know, are you really ever ready until you actually do it? So, so I know this. I wasn't ready because I didn't have a whole lot of things prepared and hadn't gone through it completely in my head. Even if I had, I wouldn't have been ready. But I, I thought the most unique thing was basically for two months I really kind of talked to people surveyed, spent a lot of time in my own head self reflecting about how am I, how do I want to go about this? This is going to be a crazy seven to eight months. How are we? What's going to give us the best opportunity to be successful? And I remember talking to the team the very first day when Gene Smith kind of announced it, put me in front of him. And I remember his words were, hey guys, we got to take care of this guy. And, and he, he, when he introduced me, he said, you know, we got to take care of him. And as soon as he put me up there, the first thing I said is, guys, you don't need to take care of me. Don't worry about taking care of me. We need to take care of each other. This team's the most important thing. You know, I don't want you guys thinking about me and my fan. That's, that's, that's too much of a burden for an 18 to 22 year old to have on their plate by any means. Let's make sure we can focus on finding the best way that we can take care of each other. And for the next two months, I racked my brain about how do I want to go about being a leader. And I made an incredible amount of mistakes. And the biggest mistake that I made was I decided after two months it wasn't just a knee jerk reaction. It wasn't just, I'm going to do this. I literally made a decision that I needed to be as much like Coach Trestle as I possibly could be. And I just, I felt like after talking, spend a lot of time with coach Frank Solich who took over at Nebraska and not in the same situation, but in some situations for, for a legend and Coach Osborne and, and you know, and spent some time with some other guys that had taken over and been head coaches and, and. But I had decided, I thought that that was what was best for the team. I thought that was best for the coaching staff and that was the best chance for us to be successful in a seven or eight month period. And which was the biggest mistake I made. And along with all the other mistakes, that was the biggest one because I found out that there's no way you can be authentic, there's no way you can be consistent, there's no way you can do be the best version of yourself when you're trying to be somebody you're not. And that's the greatest ever learned in leadership. Unfortunately, it happened at a very unique and difficult time and then maybe in a spotlight that you probably shouldn't be trying some of those things.

Speaker B Well, I found this fascinating. After that year's interim, you end up staying at Ohio State, Urban Meyer comes in, becomes the head coach. You assume the same role as you had before. If I'm correct there and you get the chance to be the coordinator for the 2000 national championship team again, you got to play in a Rose Bowl. You had to come D.C. for the national champion Ohio State Buckeyes. What was that game in particular like?

Speaker A Which one? I've kind of listed the 2014.

Speaker B 2014. I apologize. Yes.

Speaker A No, no, I, I had been fortunate enough to, to be in I think was it three of them before? So we won in 2002 was my, in my first year where you know, I was a special teams coach and a defensive ends coach and then in 2006, I think maybe the CO Coordinator 2006, 2007 where we, where we got beat. And then obviously 2014, you know, was, was the fourth one. So had gone through it and things like that. And obviously every experience like that is uniquely different. I think that one in particular being 2014, facing a team that was different in, in Oregon and going in, you know, facing the Heisman Trophy winner and Marcus Mariota. It's. People sound like it's, it's a great. The game itself obviously ended up being great, but what a nerve wracking process in all that you do. And I just remember the buildup, the work, the process behind all of it. But you know, more than anything I think that, you know, those going against those, that that offense at that time in particular was more, more than anything just trying to find ways to not think you're going to shut them down, but to slow them down and you know, be able to make those adjustments, especially in the biggest, biggest game. So those three before that, that I actually kind of one of them in my first year that I sat back and watched because I didn't have a whole lot of. Part of nothing now part of it. But obviously your first year to that 6 and 7 where we really, you know, learned that, you know, we took a beating. And to be honest with you, both in six and seven, I thought we were the better team. In 2002 when we beat Miami, we were not the best in 6 and 7. I thought all in all we were the better team. And then 2014, those, those lessons learned going into that game, it's, you know, it was so unique to say, okay, hey, it doesn't matter who the best team is on a stage like this, in a time like this, it's going to be about who plays the best.

Speaker B On that day when you made a great comment there. And I was even going to ask this, but I had my own commentary to it. I was at the 14 game. I still had my NFL hat on. I was working espn. I just come out of the league. And I remember, I remember at halftime talking to a friend. I was with another NFL player, Brent Jones. We talked about what adjustments we thought needed to be made. And you guys, I thought did as good a job as I've seen in college football. As long as I've been watching halftime adjustments, specifically taking on, taking away what they're doing on the boundary, forcing them where you wanted to them on the field and really like you said, slowing down, containing that high powered offense. So hats off to you for that one. One of the greater coaching jobs I've seen defensively. Well, if you can't tell. Let me take you right there real quick. Yeah, please.

Speaker A I was going to give what really that game in particular and if you do remember all the way back, okay, we had said that these guys are not go. If they, they're not going to drive the ball on you. Okay? They're a big play team. We've got to eliminate the big play. And I remember the first, first series, they scored, they took 13 plays, went down the field and scored. And I remember them coming to the sideline and coach Meyer was losing his mind. Like, you know, what are we going to do? And I literally had the most calmness to me that, that I've had, I think in coaching. And I sat the guys down the sideline, I said, we're in perfect position here, guys. 13 plays. All right, we're, we've just seen exactly what their game plan is for the entire game. If that had been a four or five play, you know, series where all of a sudden they strike you, then your, your head's spinning and you're whirling. I'm like, we just saw. So this really adjustments came, yes, a little bit of halftime. But as much of any adjustments were made after that first 13 play drive, we're where we saw exactly how they were planning to do everything they were going to do in the attack because we found a way to make them kind of methodically show their hand in a lot of those things. So yes, there were halftime adjustments, but after that first series, I thought that we as a whole did the best job at recognizing and not panicking on saying, hey, they scored, but they scored our way.

Speaker B That's incredible. Well, we'll be right back from our next break and we will get into the incredible turnaround that Coach Fickle and his staff has had at the University of Cincinnati. We'll be right back here at beyond the X's and O's, we don't shy away from real life conversations. And today we're talking about one of the most taboo topics. Finances. U.S. bank offers a wide range of credit cards for a wide variety of financial needs. And one of its most useful cards is the U S Bank Visa Platinum card. With low introductory APR for 24 billing cycles, this card is a tool for getting ahead. The U S Bank Visa Platinum card is a savvy financial move for large purchases, unexpected expenses and balance transfers. And with the ability to customize your payment date, this card gives you control over your financial future. Apply now@usbank.com Platinum with the U S Bank Visa Platinum card, you can be worry free for the next two years. To see if you qualify for the best introductory APR out there, visit usbank.com Platinum Limited Time Offer. The creditor and issuer of this card is U S Bank national association. Pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc. Some restrictions may apply. Well, back to coach Luke Fickle and coach I I gotta admit that of all the coaching jobs I've seen, let's call it the last 10 years, I think what you've done at Cincinnati is as remarkable as anything. You know, you inherited a program that wasn't great. The first year wasn't great. And since that time you have built such a strong foundation, 44 and 7 over the last four years and now a top 10 recruiting class just as long as you want. Take me through that building process identified early on and maybe the core values that have been the foundation of Bearcat football. Since you've been there.

Speaker A Well, I think that, you know, obviously, whatever it is that you inherit, there's. There's always players. I think I learned that from Coach Meyer more than anything. That it's. There's always. Every program and team has players. You know, it's not that. I mean, some are a little bit better than others, but by nature, there's enough players there to win. It's finding ways to get those guys all together and going in the right direction. And, you know, whatever it is that we inherited four and eight team that in year one, we actually ended up four and eight as well. It should have been probably one in 11, to be honest. You know, there were three games where people handed it to us to just on complete mistakes. And from that team, I think we had four guys off of that first year go one guy drafted, but, you know, four guys make an NFL roster. So there, There was talent on that team, but we had no team. And I think the greatest transition that we did, it wasn't that we changed where we were recruiting because by nature, they had recruited a lot of the. Recruited Alabama and, and Georgia and Texas because, you know, that's where the coaches were from. They had recruited a lot of junior college kids, you know, just. Because that's what the coaches before us had known. But you can't change things by thinking you're going to, you know, go and start to bring your own guys in it. I mean, before that, you. You could only sign 25 guys. So you had to find. We had to find a way to make sure that we had enough players. We had to find a way to create a team. And the greatest thing that we did was from year one to year two was. Was recognize that, hey, let's don't complain about the players that we got. Let's find a way to make sure that everybody believes in the things that we're doing. I think setting the foundation there of that trust, respect and love that I talked to you, that I've already mentioned was what I forgot. In year one, year one, I. All I thought about was compete, compete, compete, compete, compete. Let's get these guys to compete. The reason they've lost is because they haven't competed. And at the end of year one, I recognized that, okay, we're there competitive and we're competitive. We have no team and we have all these individuals. And I thought we did a really good job going that next off season and into that next year of really trying to find a way to build the lot more than anything else, not, you Know the recruiting class, which is a part of it, but build the locker room, the guys that you got within there. And we did some, what I would say some high school stuff, whether it was take retreats, put guys in group, make sure guys got to know each other so that you had that respect for one another because you know a little bit more about their background of where they've come from. And unfortunately, you know, it took a whole year and one enlightening opportunity of the last, the last meal before our last game when I recognized that nobody on our team really knew each other. From that moment on, you know, everything was focused on, hey, just building a team. And by nature, if we get that trust, respect and love in that locker room, it's amazing what can happen. And we saw it and then we saw it kind of really go come full force onto the football field. When in that second year I think we won 11 games. But we were probably better than not half the teams we played individually, but as a team it was amazing. We found ways to win and we did that in year two. And then we started to become, I thought better than other teams in year. We did it in year two, but then in year three we still were the same way. We weren't better than teams individually, but better as a team. And it wasn't until 4 and 5 where we actually started to become like we had better all around groups and players maybe than some other teams and. But it was still about finding a way to win as a team. And that's where the foundation has come from. That's where the foundation has to stay, is making sure that locker room more than anything has that trust, respect and love and recognizes that's what wins championships more than anything.

Speaker B I want to land there for a little bit because the whole reason I started this pod was for, for that of gold. You just gave everybody. I sensed a need in the football community as I left football, got into TV and then re entered football through the high school space. I'm just a grumpy old fart that coaches high school football, but I have a 42 year old football life in this game. And I noticed a real transition of what you just said leaving the game. It became so chalkboard driven, it became so scheme driven, it became so recruiting driven, traits driven that we lost. What really is the essence of the greatest game in the world and that's the collective is way more powerful than the individual. And thank you for sharing that because I've learned it, I mean, and you're just preaching the choir Every time we get caught up in X's and O's and scheme and traits and development and this and that, that's good. You can't ever cheat that part of it. But whenever it supersedes serve, love, grow, launch right team building, getting to know each other, intimate relationships, transparency, honesty, brotherhood. I can go on and on and on. And I think you and I, I appreciate your honesty here. You are one of the best coaches in all of football, saying, year one, I messed it up. It was about compete. And then I realized, no, it wasn't. That's part of it. And it's an. But it's not the biggest part of this. So I hope as a young coach, please hear Coach Fickle. Just sit out there. You'll be such a better coach when you invest more water into the bucket of team building and a little less water into finding the coolest new scheme that's going to help you get a third and eight sack. So that's my little soapbox commentary coach.

Speaker A Well, I said it was. Honestly, I'll just real quick. It was a Wednesday night before our last game, and obviously we'd had a horrible season. We'd won three games. And I took all the seniors to dinner. And I remember they all sat in separate, like kind of little groups and like, this is like dinner. Why aren't we sitting together? And I sat and I listened to them and I heard guys ask about other guys sitting at other tables and they're like, I don't really know him. And these are the seniors. And I literally remember I was. My stomach was just killing me. I went home. It was 10:30 at night on a Wednesday before our last game. And I woke my wife up at like 11 and I'm like, I've completely screwed this up. I, I didn't even think about it. I, I recognized what we don't have. And obviously I don't know if she was really listening to me. At 11 o' clock when I woke her up. I had to tell somebody, had to tell somebody how much I had messed up and, and had neglected, you know, the most important thing. And, and we ended up winning that, that last game because UConn scored on the last play of the game and got a, got a personal foul instead of kicking the extra point to go to overtime. They. Oh, no, they were going to go. They were going to go for two to win the game. They got a personal foul, moved it back and missed the extra point. So we won. But nonetheless, from that moment on is when we got you Know, hopefully got the thing kind of centered back and recognizing what it is that we needed to do to grow and be successful.

Speaker B Well, you have and I don't. I want to be respectful of your time. We have all the flash and sizzle of the Cincinnati Bearcat program now. Nine NFL draft picks, picks. Only two teams had more. All kinds of guys playing on Sunday. Top 10 recruiting class. I can go on and on and on, but in your words, now, after the foundation's been set, what is it to be a Bearcat?

Speaker A It's the same thing that the vision, when we came in and we put it at the top of all of our books, says earn it, own it, represent it. And that's the way I grew up. That's the good fortunes of the group of guys I played with, whether it was high school or college. And when I came here, that's what I wanted. And earn it meant when you walked in the door, we didn't want you to think that anything was owed to you. So when you walked in the door for us, you had to earn the C, Paul, and you had to come in and recognize that. So you had to kind of humble yourself. You had to check your ego in at the door, whether you were the best player in high school or not, to walk in and earn it. And then hopefully after you earn it, you understand that you become ownership of it. We're not renting this. I thought when I came here, we had a lot of guys that were renting the place. Whether they were, you know, a junior college guy coming for only two years, it could have been a guy here for four or five years. When you don't really understand and know the people that are you, you're just there renting. And when you're renting, it doesn't mean nearly as much to you. I talk about the example of, you know, you rent an apartment in. In college, you surely don't worry about what the carpet looks like or what the walls look like, right? It's rent, and we're moving on. And so once they start to own it, they. They really. There's a difference to it and whether it's in the recruiting or just how you go about your business. And then. And then it's represented. And represented means what you do for the rest of your life. And that's what I wanted. So when anybody asks what it's like, I said, the most important thing to me is to see some of those former Bearcats come back to say, I love watching. I love, you know, being a part of this and seeing it, that means more to me than anything else because I know the guys that went before you and played here and set the standards and, you know, lived it are the ones that I want to represent the most. And so earn it, own it. And I tell them when they walk out of this thing, I want them to feel like it was. They owned it so, so much of it that they're going to represent it for the rest of their life. And that's the way I felt about the places that I've been. And I want those guys to have that feeling, you know, and it's not just from winning, because obviously it's a lot easier when you win, but I wanted those guys in year one to unit too, that even though we didn't win, okay, you were. You really started the foundation. You know, unfortunately, you had a guy that didn't know what he was doing and not as good as, you know, recognizing the things that we needed to do, but that you still know that there was a love for you, that you felt like you were going to represent this and what it is that we've done, this program, this university for.

Speaker B The rest of your life, that's fantastic. And we end every pod this way. And I really want younger coaches. I'm doing this so younger coaches realize their journey. They're not alone on it. All of us have had others come behind us or with us and help us. And your wife Amy and all those children, just give them a shout out to how they've kind of helps you on your journey as a football coach.

Speaker A Well, as, you know, in order to do this to me the right way, you have to pour everything into it. And everybody says they're a family, and that's one of the core, you know, kind of cornerstones to our program when they walk in that everybody has to understand there's a difference, you know, that people see and envision a family. We want to give them what that is. So for my family to be a part of this and every one of our coaches families to be a part of it, I think it's the only way you can do it. And for them to, obviously, my own family, to have the respect to understand that, you know, they've got 120 other brothers that I'm, you know, spending a lot of time with, and. And they. And they, you know, they understand that, so. But they embrace themselves here, too. They come here, they're here as much as they possibly can. They own it, and they represent it every bit as much as I do. And I'm fortunate that that's way my wife and what she does at home and how she stresses that to my kids so that they respect what it is that we do. They understand what it is that we do and I do. And they're unselfish enough to recognize that we're sharing ourselves with a lot of other people. But that's important to us.

Speaker B Awesome stuff, coach. Earn it, own it, represent it. That'll be seared into my brain forever. I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate you taking the time time with us today. Great deal of respect for your coach. Thank you so much.

Speaker A Thanks, R.H. appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B That concludes this episode of beyond the X's and O's. Thanks to our sponsor, buy energy drink. Well, huge thanks again to Coach Fickle, not just for his time, but for the for that wisdom and those gold nuggets he gave us. We'll see you next time on beyond the X's and O's.

Luke Fickell on OSU Playing Days, Rose Bowl, and Building Cincinnati's Program

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