Sports
Kuminga Is In, What is GSW? More Clippers and Camp News; Who are the Best Negotiating Teams?
In this episode of Hollinger Duncan, Nate Duncan and John Hollinger dive into the latest developments in the NBA, focusing on Jonathan Kuminga's recent contract with the Golden State Warriors and...
Kuminga Is In, What is GSW? More Clippers and Camp News; Who are the Best Negotiating Teams?
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Interactive Transcript
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All right, welcome back to a entirely US-based edition of Hollinger Duncan.
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I'm Nate Duncan. I have no real credentials. John Hollinger has many real credentials
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worked in the front office for the Memphis Grizzlies for seven years and one of the Godfathers
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of NBA analytics. But you never had to pull me back in. I was always in. So, who actually says that?
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What is that actual reference of Godfather? What's that thing I'm out? You pull me back in.
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Oh, I only know it from Seinfeld. I've seen the movie, but I guess it's just that specific moment.
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I don't remember. I actually thought that was... See, I think that is good fellows.
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Oh, well, maybe that... I just have this totally wrong. I don't know.
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Generally, if it involves movie, I am the wrong person to ask.
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Yes, it is. Oh, no, it's from Godfather Part III, which I have not seen.
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That's the one with the Ewoks, right?
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It might as well, but for what I understand, having not seen it.
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Godfather Part III, the search for more money.
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Yes. That's Space Balls. Okay. Well, we got a lot of stuff to catch up on here.
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We've had all of the early camp news all of the... Oh, by the way, this guy had a surgery that we
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had and had no idea about. Well, there was a lot of that this week, right?
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Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'll get to all of those. Did you ever have that, by the way,
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where a guy came in and like, was it ever the case where he was like, oh, wait,
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this guy actually is not ready to play. Have you ever experienced that?
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At a shape wise, yes. Injury wise, I can't remember one.
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Parts and parts... Parts and parts was healthy.
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Parts and parts, I was going to say not even with Parsons.
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Yeah. So, no, I don't have one of those where it was just like the guy showed up.
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It was just like, yeah, he's hurt. Or we were like, yeah, let's not tell anyone about the surgery
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for a while. There weren't any of those either. Like, we took... Actually, the Grizzly still do that
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now, right? You get the mid-July bulletin like, hey, guess what?
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Yeah.
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The Grizzly's off season injury update in your email. You're like, oh, no, let's see what this is.
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Yeah. Well, the Grizz have gotten a little bit more transparent over the years. They've had a lot
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of practice. Yeah, really. Yeah. I mean, I've always felt like Philly is the least transparent.
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Charlotte under the radar is, will give you nothing. Like, going back to the Mark Williams thing.
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But, yeah, Philly, I mean, I think though with that article that came out over the summer,
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I think a lot of that is just driven by what Joel wants rather than even necessarily what the
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organization wants. It's... Yeah. I mean, when you're dealing with your star players, it's just a
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different process than it is with the other 14 guys. And that's just how it works.
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All right. Let's talk about Jonathan Caminga and Golden State. And then we can also talk about
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what this Golden State team is actually to be now that they've signed actual players.
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Jonathan Caminga ends up two years, 48 and a half million. He did have.
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Excuse me. What? Sorry. No. 46.8 million. Oh, there's some bullshit in that.
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They got to 48.5 by including the entire trade kicker if he has traded the first day that he's
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eligible. Ah, yes. The old Roshan Holmes move. All right. So he did. So basically, because that's
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what we were thinking was that he got an extra two million. But that's actually. Yeah.
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So, yeah, first, first year salary of 22 and a half. According to Keith Smith, from Spotrak,
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he gave him credit for the heat post in that first. And yeah. So our long national nightmare is over.
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Caminga has signed. I thought we had three more years.
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Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. What was I going to tell you? The whole interesting with restricted
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pre-agency is you're trying the agent side is trying to bluff the team. Like, I'm going to take
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the qualifying offer. I'm going to do it. No, really, I'm going to do it. Even while knowing the
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whole time the qualifying offer is almost certainly not in their interest. Like, I thought the nets
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actually screwed up by getting to a situation where Cam Thomas took the qualifying offer, especially
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without a cap room they had. It's like, what are you doing? Like give him a balloon one year deal.
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You know? Yeah. So you can trade up, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I thought they
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they really blew it there. They don't seem to really like Cam Thomas, do they? Well, but he's
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he's on their team and they like, man, I don't know. Like, I guess they wanted him. If you get him
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well, here's the thing. They're not even at the floor yet. Right? Like, I mean, I guess, I guess the
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one thing you could say is the lower his salary for this year, if they wanted to bring him back,
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that would keep his cap hold as low as possible for next year. That's maybe because they're going
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to try and use cap space next year. So because they don't have their pick in 2017. So maybe that's
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what it is. Is that like, I mean, surely they tried to trade him. He wasn't healthy enough last
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year to trade anyway. You know, we've seen that style of guard is not going to garner a first round
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pick, but they also just don't really want to invest in it. But they, but they also sabotage his
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trade value because now you trade to do another team. He loses his bird rights and he can also
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refuse the trade, obviously, but his next team isn't going to want him on that number because they
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can't resign him unless they're going to be a room team also. So I don't know. I just thought
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the nets probably overplayed their hand there. Give it. Give it. I mean, maybe, but who cares? Like,
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he was never going to get a first round pick and a trade anyway. So, you know, might as well just
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like keep him around and, you know, give, give your fans at least something to pretend to like,
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well, you make sure that you tank better than last year. So anyway, let's get back to Golden State.
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So yeah, you have some of the danger of reporting, of putting every offer out there in multiple
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interviews is that then when you just have to suck it up and take one of them, you don't look
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that great. Now, all right. The offers improved slightly since July 1st. Yes. But as you mentioned,
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like this really just has been a long national nightmare. So I don't know. What do you think of
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it ending up here? I think, I think this was a fair resolution given the market for Kaminga. I
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mean, it wasn't there are teams who were willing to pay him something clearly like Phoenix and
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Sacramello, but it's not like it's not like his value was through the roof. I think Kaminga APs
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at 24, you pick up the option then you you have his early bird rights. So you'll be able to get
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to a number to keep him if you like him. If you're the acquiring team in a trade involving him.
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So I think that part works out. Golden State retains his trade value. Yes. But I think his ability
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is a matching salary. I think having him started that 22 and a half figure that he's going to start
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at is key to keeping them under the first apron. I'm sorry. Second apron. So basically, you want
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him as you want him on as high as salaries you can get and still stay under that second apron
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because you're going to trade him out and probably take less salary back when you do a deal with him.
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So the whorfer deal caps you at the second apron. So you can't go above it. But you kind of want
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to get to it, I think if you view yourself as likely to trade him in season and the warriors are
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basically walking right up to that line. They'll have Melton on a two year minimum. So he counts
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at like three almost 3.1. Seth Curry or Gis Santos, I guess, would have to be waved before opening day.
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And then they could fill that 15 spot back like three weeks later if they want to really go
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right up to the limit. So I'm guessing that was communicated to Seth Curry before they signed the
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deal. Right? That would be a major faux pas. That was not the case. So like, yeah,
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sign a camp deal with us. We'll cut you. We'll bring you back in a few weeks. Would not mess around
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with that with the star players brother. If that was not communicated extremely clearly. Right? So
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that would be my expectation for kind of what they do in the short term. And then obviously,
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I mean, Camilla's going to have some value for them in season. Just as a basketball player. But
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sure seems like this is going to end in a trade somehow. Whether they end up doing like the same
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exact trade with Sacramento, which they could do in season and would not have the buddy healed,
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buddy healed, you know, moody constraint of having to trade them to stay below the first apron
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because they would the base year compensation issue wouldn't be there. So they'd be kept the
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second apron, not the first apron. We're going deep in the weeds here. But so that that could be
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an option, you know, doing a deal with Phoenix could be an option still, although the sons don't
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have a first to trade. So there's still ways for them to go there. There could be another team
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that gets interested in season, depending on what happens with them. If the like if the if the
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bucks get off to a wobbly start, you know, you wonder if they trade one. I think they still have
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a future first to trade, right? They could do something with Kuzma who makes a little bit less, I
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think. So there's a there's some interesting angles here. No, and I mean, my biggest takeaway is
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the Warriors one then negotiation. Like they are, I would say one of the best negotiating teams
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out there. And oh, you can't afford to be a piss people off. And yeah, you know, maybe when you're
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golden state, you got Steph Curry and Steph Curry even as has had moments where he hasn't taken the
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best possible contract and you're pretty good. And you're in the San Francisco market and all that,
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you might say, well, you can afford to negotiate harder and not piss people off. But like the Warriors
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always get their pound of flesh and they were comfortable being uncomfortable. And they got to the
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deal that they wanted. Most importantly, they got coming into wave as no trade, which you would have
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ordinarily. So he had to do that. And you know, I thought a quote unquote fair deal would have been two
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years guaranteed at this number instead of the team option. The spin now coming from Shams
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through Aaron Turner, I'm sure is, oh, well, the team option is designed to be ripped up. So any team
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could get him on a better long term deal after this cycle. But then it'd be great if that was a
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option. Yeah. Yeah. So no, you didn't win on that one. I mean, that is you could do that maybe.
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But no, like ultimately the Warriors pushed it really far and Kaminga had the opportunity to do
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kind of a mutually assured destruction. But I think the biggest problem for him was there's
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just too much performance risk for him this year. Like the whole reason he wanted to get out of
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golden state was he's getting jerked around in the minutes by Kerr. He's got Dream on Green and
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Jimmy Butler who he's a terrible fit with because neither of them can shoot and you know, he might
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not be probably not going to be starting probably not going to be closing. And you know, maybe if
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Steph Curry goes down, they'll need to use him and maybe he gets traded. But then if he gets traded,
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the team doesn't have his bird rights. And that's a big complication. So I think, you know, if he could
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have been like, all right, they I know for sure that they need me this year, then maybe you do
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take the qualifying offer because you're not as worried. There's also the health issue you missed
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all that time at the ankle last year. But in the end, like the Warriors not needing him that much
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is what enabled them to have the leverage and get this deal done. Yeah. And I think it's it's
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understanding the market too, right? That golden state knew nobody was coming over the top of them
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with the giant offer sheet. And so they were able to just wait this out. And we saw this in the
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other three restricted free agent free situations that dragged out too. I mean, with Gidey and Chicago,
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where the bulls had different aims. I mean, getting a long term deal with him was the priority
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there. And so I think they got to the deal that that was right for them at four years at a flat
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25. I think we've seen it with grimes. And then Camp Thomas, that one, yeah, I still think man,
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you do one year 20 million with him. You're feeling a lot better and get him to wave the no trade.
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But yeah, but I mean, that unfortunately is capital to 30 million next year if you do want to retain
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him. So this way, it's, you know, whatever it ends up being like, you know, 15 million or something.
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So that's I actually think it's it's fine because I don't care about trading.
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So let's actually talk about who's on this where you're seeing first of all the deals,
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Al Horpord, one plus one at the taxman level. If you're good, that's what you signed for the
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taxman level. One plus one, hopefully he won't turn into another, you know, Reggie Jackson,
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Dario Sharich type of situation. And then as you mentioned, Melton is on a one plus one.
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He's not going to be quite ready to start the season coming off the tour in ACL, but they said
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he's looking pretty good. I think they're just going to slow play it with him. Gary Payton is back.
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I don't know. I kind of feel like they might be able to do a little bit better with that roster spot
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at this point in time. I think he's just sort of lost his defensive impact. But you know, he's not
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so new. He's going to complain about playing time. You know, they still have Gisato's as well. It's
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Gemsky also had surgery over the off season. So I'm a little worried about that. We'll see how he looks.
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And then they got Camingo back as well, and probably will have Seth Curry at some point during
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this season. But Curry, you know, is really out he's more of a in a finesse type of role at this
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point, I would say. I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. Any comment just on these deals? I mean, Horpör is
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probably the most noteworthy. Yeah. I mean, that's a great deal to get out Horpör on. IQ guy.
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I think he fits with their guys.
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I think how they use Quentin Post last year, I think showed the Warriors what they were
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missing, but not having a stretch big before that.
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They've always wanted one.
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They just could never, they tried it with Sharich, you know, going back to the most spate
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stays, but they just, they never had the salary slot to get someone who was actually good.
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Yeah.
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As Sharich was a, was a wretch big, actually, not a, not a stretch just technically.
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But yeah, that, so I think he's going to fit great there.
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High Q player and a high Q team, even at his age, like he still can switch, man.
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Like he still can do it.
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So just not that big, not a shop locker.
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So the Warriors are just small all over.
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So, but they're not as small if it's whorfer and green playing together in the front court.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I think like this really opens things up for them to still be big, but also play
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dream on green and Jimmy Butler together.
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And this is my feeling on the Warriors.
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I'm hopefully going to have Slater on to talk about them a little bit more detail now
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that we actually know is on this team.
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I think people are dismissing them because they're old and I do think that's quite reasonable.
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But if everyone on this team just plays the way that they played last year, I mean, these
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guys could easily be the second best team in the West to me.
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Now the odds of that might be low, but like it's certainly possible.
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Like yes, these guys are old.
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They're a year older, but it's not impossible that they could all be as good as they were last
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year.
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Oh, I think the Warriors have a great chance to be a top three seed in the West.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, they're old, but they're good.
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They were really good at the end of last year.
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And it was just, it was, you know, Curry went out, but they had beaten the Rockets and it took
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them seven games, but I mean, they were clearly the better team over those seven games.
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Yeah.
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And then they won game one in Minnesota and then Steph got hurt.
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You know, okay, now you're playing the wolves without your best player.
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So yeah, you're going to lose.
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But I just thought they were a really good team by the end of last year and a team that
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kind of knew who they were to.
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And for as old as they are, I mean, they're still like Paginski could come back and be a lot
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better this year in particular, I think.
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Yeah.
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That's my Malo disheartened by the fact he had two surgeries over the offseason, but
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Oh, we're up to two now.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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A wrist surgery and a core surgery.
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Okay, then.
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But he was, but he was back on the court August 1st.
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So I mean, he's just older like he could be better for sure.
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Yeah.
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And then, you know, whatever you get from Kameh, I mean, it's not going to be less than
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you got last year.
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And it could be considerably more maybe.
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Yeah.
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So that like they're upside cases dotting that roster, even though it is generally a quite
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old team.
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The three core players all being 36 or whatever they are.
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Yeah, that's a little troubling.
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And then that's my being 39.
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Yeah.
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And then you add Al Whirford to that.
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Oh, okay.
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So there's definitely a shelf life with this team.
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I think it was notable that Steve Kerr is just like, yeah, I'm going to coach this year
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and then we'll see what happens.
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Do you want to talk about that briefly?
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That surprised me.
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Yeah.
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I mean, maybe it was just a really honest way of looking at.
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I don't know that he just didn't want to sign up for a rebuild.
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But it's surprised me, I guess they didn't need at least want to get the years written down
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in paper.
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What was your reaction?
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Well, I mean, you would have thought, okay, maybe he'll line it up with staff and
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Dreymon and then again, but I mean, I see no reason for him to do that.
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Like, do you think Steve Kerr would struggle to get another job?
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Absolutely not.
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Right?
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Like the first, like, good job that comes opening and get it.
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And everyone's already like, well, what about San Antonio, right?
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Like Mitch Johnson, I mean, like Kerr, it's hard to imagine Steve Kerr being here past
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one of the stuff Curry's.
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I agree.
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And Warriors have been very protective of their 2027 plan now as well, because that's when
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staff and Dreymon and Butler are all off the books, Horfer will be as well.
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They'll have nothing really at that point.
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We'll see if they do any extensions.
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At what point?
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That's the best thing is that Jimmy actually won't be eligible for an extension until like
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that February, 2027.
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So he can't complain about it.
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So I mean, I think it's good business by him.
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I mean, if either he gets another one year balloon payment, you know, he can do the
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Phil Jackson year to year.
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Like what are the Warriors going to not want him back next year if everything goes well?
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Of course he will.
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And if Steph Curry, you know, suffers a career ending injury or something or, you know,
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Butler and Horfer and Dreymon just aren't any good.
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And I, these guys are clearly, you know, they missed the playoffs, which could easily happen.
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Then, yeah, it'll just, you know, he sits out of here.
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Maybe we find out Mitch Johnson isn't the guy.
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He moves to San Antonio.
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Like, you know, there's a lot of, I mean, that's pretty interesting to think of him being
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down there.
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But that's, yeah, he's going to be in demand.
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I think it's good business by him.
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There's no reason for him to sign such.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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And I guess once Melton comes back, we'll see if he can give them something.
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But I think they should, like Quentin Post was a rotation player last year.
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Like, they should be pretty deep.
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I always think that.
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And then, you know, you're, they started 12 and three last year and then it totally
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fell apart.
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So we'll just have to see.
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Obviously it all comes back to Steph.
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Like, if Steph now going to turn 38, if he could still be as good as he was last year,
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then like once they made the Jimmy trade, then they're, they're kind of, well, I think
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the thing having Jimmy, even though he's only going to play 60 games or whatever is that
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he gives an option where they just don't have to spam Steph, Steph, Steph, Steph all
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through 82 games of the year.
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I think navigating that last year was really hard for the Warriors, trying to figure out
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how many minutes should we play him each night knowing that, you know, it was almost
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like the nuggets with yoghurt.
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It's like, okay, if we sit for as long as this guy's on the bench, we're just not going
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to score at all.
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Right?
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So how long can we keep him on the bench?
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And I think that, yeah, having Butler, I think really changes that for the Warriors.
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Yeah.
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I want to dig into them a lot more, but, you know, I think their deep ends could be pretty
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good.
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Like I'll hope for as you mentioned, it's really good.
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Right.
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I mean, that came against the Lakers last year where they shot, you know, two for a
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zillion against him on switches.
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Like, that's, that's pretty interesting.
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Let's move on to our favorite punching bag, Dejure, the LA Clippers.
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More allegations have come out.
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Now apparently it really was on paper a $48 million deal.
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What not only was its stock options, but he had a put option to just turn that into $20
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million in cash if he wanted to.
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It's still unclear actually how much Kauai has actually gotten paid, you know, he only
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has on paper $7 million that he is claiming to be owed from the bankruptcy proceeding.
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All of the Clippers basically were, oh yeah, you know, it's, it's unfair.
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What's out there, the league investigation, we hope it will exonerate us.
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But certainly no ex-culpatory explanation was provided for any of this.
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Kauai, like, it's kind of alluded to the idea that like maybe he did something for them,
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but, you know, again, the whole idea of an endorsement is that it's public and no, yeah,
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it's been able to.
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Yeah.
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It was a consulting agreement on how to, how to, maybe Uncle Dennis provided some additional
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business acumen of how to like build people out of money, but outside of the rules, was
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that what the, it was all about?
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So, yeah, I mean, I think we're, and then you also have the news that Steve Balmer as late
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as late 2024 is donating to Sandberg's charity $1.875 million again, one of these like,
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I conveniently write about the amount of money that Kauai is going to get paid.
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I mean, is there any further reaction to this?
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So, my feeling is kind of like, now I really, really, really, really, really, really think
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they did it.
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Yeah, pretty much.
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There's just more and more circumstantial evidence that needs to be explained.
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And I do think there's a side question of who was in the loop.
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Like it is possible that this was a deal between Balmer and Uncle Dennis that the front office
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didn't even know about.
spk_0
spk_0
Like it's, it's, it's, it's possible.
spk_0
And if you're, because if you're Balmer, you're like, oh, front office guys, like if any
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of them leave or go somewhere else, they're just going to rat us out as soon as they're
spk_0
gone.
spk_0
So, like, let's, let's keep the egg.
spk_0
Generally, it was something like that.
spk_0
Like if you're going to cheat, you want to keep the circle as tight as possible, right?
spk_0
That's just, you know, human nature, people talk, whatever.
spk_0
So, and that, that's one thing I wonder about.
spk_0
The other thing I wonder about because if they, so if the clippers actually did this
spk_0
as circumvention and Balmer is just denying, denying, denying the whole way and say, no,
spk_0
no, no, I didn't do it.
spk_0
I didn't do it.
spk_0
Like that, that's not going to help him with the leak, right?
spk_0
Right?
spk_0
Like there's a point where you got to kind of be like, ah, shit, you got me.
spk_0
Like here, like, okay.
spk_0
Oh, I'll, I'll, I'll, as you noted, I mean, I, I think you've been the one noting this
spk_0
a lot more than a lot of people that it really comes down to this having to convince an
spk_0
arbitrator of whether or convention actually occurred.
spk_0
And so like, I mean, a lot of people have said like my buddy Ethan Strauss said this of
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like, oh, yeah, if the clippers actually had anything exculpatory, like you could just
spk_0
say, I'm like, well, I mean, number one, they don't have anything that's like actually
spk_0
clean.
spk_0
Number one, but to the extent there is any kind of defense they're relying on, it doesn't
spk_0
make sense to make any sort of public statements.
spk_0
You save all of that for the actual arbitration because you don't want to have any kind of
spk_0
inconsistencies in your story and in your statement.
spk_0
I mean, I think Balmer already fucked himself knowing that this stuff was out there by going
spk_0
on ESPN with Ramona and saying everything that he said and, oh my God, I got so bamboozled
spk_0
by this Sandberg guy that I donated another 1.875 million to his charity six months ago.
spk_0
Yeah, but I really really must have felt burned there.
spk_0
Steve, like, so yeah, I mean, I still think that my position is the league should just
spk_0
take it all the way to the arbitration unless the clippers are willing to agree to something
spk_0
very close to the death penalty.
spk_0
Like, like if the clippers aren't willing to agree to a punishment that nobody would say
spk_0
it wasn't enough, then I just take it to the arbitration.
spk_0
That would be my approach if I was a loop.
spk_0
I think that's right.
spk_0
Like, whatever you do has to have real teeth, you know, whatever the league does.
spk_0
And I think like, take away one first round pick or whatever.
spk_0
No, no, no, that ain't it.
spk_0
That ain't it.
spk_0
I think you will have 29 unhappy owners if that is the resolution.
spk_0
And so, yeah, and remember, I mean, this is who Silver works for, right?
spk_0
He works for Steve Balmer, but he works for 29 other guys who combined have way more
spk_0
power than Steve Balmer too.
spk_0
And so you remember in the last CBM, leveling the playing field between the rich owners
spk_0
basically two of them, you know, the owners shooting money out of the fire hose, Lake
spk_0
up in Balmer and the other 28 teams was one of the big themes of that.
spk_0
And who won that, the 28, not the two.
spk_0
And so I think that would happen again.
spk_0
And to one thing you said though, the clippers not saying anything is compulsory.
spk_0
I disagree a little that you would wait if you were then because this is being tried
spk_0
in the court of public opinion at the same time.
spk_0
And I think Adam Silver is sensitive to that.
spk_0
And so I actually, I actually think if the clippers had something that was like, no,
spk_0
this is clearly a mistake.
spk_0
Here's why look like come on.
spk_0
Then, and then I think it would be out there.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, I mean, I think it's, maybe you're right about that with respect to the punishment,
spk_0
maybe not with respect to the arbitration.
spk_0
Although you do make a good point because when the league comes to them, as you noted,
spk_0
like the process is going to be like, okay, hey, can we settle this without having to go
spk_0
to the arbitration?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
If Adam Silver says, hey, look, like these guys want your heads, like the public wants
spk_0
your heads, I can't just say two first rompicks here.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So if you're at that point, yeah.
spk_0
But that again goes to the idea that there's nothing even remotely that's going to satisfy
spk_0
anyone here.
spk_0
Also, quickly Bradley Beale, one of our stealth surgery guys had an arthropic procedure on
spk_0
his knee.
spk_0
Looks like he will be limited at the start of training camp.
spk_0
Does that mean he will be ready to start the season?
spk_0
Who knows?
spk_0
I mean, that's usually that's kind of anybody who's had off season surgery.
spk_0
That's kind of the default.
spk_0
But they definitely need Bradley Beale.
spk_0
Like they traded away Norm Pals.
spk_0
They could get him.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You know what?
spk_0
We actually did have one of those.
spk_0
I remember Vince Carter, the summer we signed him at off season ankle surgery.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Did you know that was like coming and he was like limping halfway, halfway into the season.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Because he had had it before we even signed him.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
But it was, but it was a, did you like, yeah, I guess if he has
spk_0
it before he signed as a free agent, there's nobody who's like, quote unquote, responsible
spk_0
there's yeah, nobody's sending out a press release.
spk_0
So yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Let's see here.
spk_0
What else is of interest in terms of the early camp news?
spk_0
Well, we got to talk about Grimes, right?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Did that happen yet?
spk_0
I mean, we're recording this.
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It is now 1234 Pacific time.
spk_0
I think he has 90 minutes here.
spk_0
I read that it's actually the end of the day.
spk_0
I think it's the end of the day.
spk_0
It's not.
spk_0
All right.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So I think the deal is, I think it's going to end in the qualifying offer and I think here's
spk_0
why.
spk_0
So what's been sort of leaked out there is that even the multi year offers or the wave
spk_0
of the trade restriction offers from Philly are coming in around 10 a year.
spk_0
And I think the reason for that is that Philly really wants to stay below the first apron
spk_0
and that they value that more than getting a long term deal with Quentin Grimes right
spk_0
now because they just want to have the flexibility.
spk_0
They don't really know what they have a little bit like they might be awesome, right?
spk_0
But that depends on a lot of factors that are out of their control health wise.
spk_0
Talk about offseason surgeries.
spk_0
I mean Paul George, Jared McCain already.
spk_0
And we'll see what Joe LNB can do.
spk_0
And I think even the sixers are kind of like them.
spk_0
Let's see.
spk_0
You know, let's see.
spk_0
They play a preseason game tomorrow.
spk_0
Let's see what happens.
spk_0
So I think that's going to end up going to the qualifying offer on him.
spk_0
Yeah, to me, I mean, we can start with Grimes.
spk_0
They need a more now because of what happened with McCain.
spk_0
I mean, Grimes really needs to play the three for this team.
spk_0
I mean, they're talking about how Paul George has to play the four.
spk_0
Paul actually had some interesting comments where he's like, yeah, you know, 10 years ago
spk_0
I wouldn't have been down, but the four has changed.
spk_0
And the four is actually like getting all the news that but yeah, everyone's hitting
spk_0
the offensive glass.
spk_0
Like you're going to have to box out.
spk_0
I mean, yeah, I appreciate him being willing to take on that role.
spk_0
But I don't know how much I love Paul George coming off an eSER.
spk_0
He says his knees getting stronger.
spk_0
This one's going down, but him being like, I'm very worried about their ability to do
spk_0
anything on the boards.
spk_0
So, but yeah, I think Grimes at this point, I mean, because you mentioned the first apron
spk_0
issue and, you know, a lot of that.
spk_0
The reason they're in that circumstances, because they're paying Joel and Paul George,
spk_0
a absolute crap down money.
spk_0
I mean, they have three max players on the team.
spk_0
So this is, this is where you get to and yeah, where you just don't have the depth.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, and it's again, this is one of those ones where like four years, 39 million, which
spk_0
is the offer that's out there.
spk_0
This always happens to drill where his terribly, like just comically bad offer gets leaked.
spk_0
And then they'll, they'll leak back like, oh, no, it actually wasn't that bad.
spk_0
But then, you know, we don't actually find out what it really was like.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I mean, I mean, I just something that there'd be zero reason for him ever to take.
spk_0
So it seems like they're just, did they include the trade kicker?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That's right.
spk_0
So, but I think for Philly, again, like you want Grimes on your team all year, they're
spk_0
feeling is probably like, hey, if he's good, we'll just pay him next year.
spk_0
And yeah, you know, now there is a risk for them.
spk_0
I think that especially if they have injuries, he could really blow up and play the way
spk_0
that he played.
spk_0
And at the end of last year, when they're tanking, I mean, I think Philly probably isn't
spk_0
putting a lot of stock on that.
spk_0
The league isn't putting a lot of stock on that.
spk_0
But next year, there should be more teams with cap space if there could be a team that
spk_0
would value Grimes in the over $20 million if he has a good year.
spk_0
And Philly basically, as you noted, can't really afford that.
spk_0
Like Joelle's extensions kicking in next year too.
spk_0
Like they're just, I mean, unless this is a team that's truly competing, they're just
spk_0
not capable.
spk_0
So that's the risk is that I mean, could they have gotten him on four years?
spk_0
At 15 million a year, like I would have done that, I think just to have that value contract.
spk_0
I mean, but they're maybe thinking we can just get him on that next year.
spk_0
I think they're thinking they want the flexibility of being under, I think being under that
spk_0
first apron is important to him.
spk_0
I think that's really the trigger here.
spk_0
And like, like right at 10 million is the line for them to be over the first apron.
spk_0
And then, yeah, but I would say that's more of a money thing than a flexibility thing
spk_0
because they don't have any matching salary.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
Megas, I asked me this.
spk_0
They got Ubrei.
spk_0
They got drummers.
spk_0
Ubrei, they get to at least some kind of a player.
spk_0
A couple, couple kind of low impact veteran guys at the end of the bench there.
spk_0
Ubrei, the other quote unquote, power forward on this roster.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I think that's yeah.
spk_0
And obviously they let me obviously go.
spk_0
They let me obviously go as well.
spk_0
Like they could have, they could have matched that Nick's offer if they had wanted to.
spk_0
But then again, they would have been in the second apron as well.
spk_0
And I understand.
spk_0
They would have been at the frit.
spk_0
They would have been, yeah, and they would have been capped at the first apron too because
spk_0
it was, oh no, I'm sorry, capped to the second apron.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
Yeah, it's been tax exception.
spk_0
And honestly, given what this team has been, I understand Josh Harris just not wanting
spk_0
this but at this point in time.
spk_0
I think the other underlying thing is they still have the flexibility to get under the
spk_0
tax if this looks like shit.
spk_0
Oh, oh, you think they might do that?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Trade Kelly Ubrei, dang, we're under.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Um, any, I mean, I would imagine he's probably not going to play on the preseason.
spk_0
It be does.
spk_0
I will take it as a tremendously encouraging sign, but I'm kind of encouraged about Joel
spk_0
and Pete.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Like I would say, I mean, the fact that we haven't heard the absence of negative reports
spk_0
is, is a really encouraging sign, especially relative to the last year.
spk_0
So I think you just, it's almost like you got to watch this first game and then you'll,
spk_0
you know, you kind of know one way or the other.
spk_0
Well, I want to see whether he has the knee brace on and, but apparently he did at least
spk_0
like some live stuff in practice.
spk_0
So that's, that's certainly way ahead of where he was a year ago as a result.
spk_0
People who have seen him say that he looked really thin, which I always thought was low
spk_0
hanging fruit that he, uh, he either picked way, way, way too much of or.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Uh, didn't pick it all.
spk_0
So, um, yeah.
spk_0
So I'm actually like mildly encouraged.
spk_0
Now, of course it's Philly's like shit's going to go wrong in some respect, but like if
spk_0
they could just get Joel and Pete playing 60 games at an all star level, like this is
spk_0
like, yeah, probably a four or five seed, like they're going to be heard from.
spk_0
So I, I've been so down unfilial over the years, relative to everyone else because of
spk_0
inbeads health, but I'm actually, you know, Paul George can't hopefully be worse than he
spk_0
was last year.
spk_0
Um, everyone's very high on what BG Edgecom is doing.
spk_0
So I think they got some weaknesses, but they hopefully could fill them in season.
spk_0
Deer and Fox, I don't think I'll be playing on opening nights because of a hamstring
spk_0
injury, although he did say I feel like I could play an opening day, but the spurs are
spk_0
not letting me.
spk_0
Uh, I don't think I'll be on the court for a preseason.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And we also have Dylan Harper had thumb surgery.
spk_0
So maybe it'll be the castle show in the beginning of the year.
spk_0
Jordan McLaughlin from from yeah, but it ain't down on the death chart.
spk_0
You don't feel great about that Fox starting this extension that doesn't even kick in until
spk_0
next year, by the way.
spk_0
Uh, and I mean, it basically has not been healthy at all.
spk_0
It was a spark.
spk_0
I mean, he could have played through that finger injury last year, though he wasn't playing
spk_0
well, maybe in part as a result of it.
spk_0
Uh, so like it's their whole situation, that that back court and how it works out this
spk_0
year, maybe even more than how many games they're winning is going to be a fascinating
spk_0
story.
spk_0
Well, I think it will be because I thought they did a really bad job of incorporating
spk_0
Fox when they got him last year.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah, I agree.
spk_0
Like just way too much trotting to the corner and watching Chris Paul or or castle cook
spk_0
was like, what, like what are we doing here?
spk_0
Uh, so yeah, fascinating to see like they have to incorporate his speed.
spk_0
They have to just get the ball in his hands a little more than they did at the end of
spk_0
the last season.
spk_0
So how are they, how are they going to do that?
spk_0
Let's, let's see.
spk_0
And unfortunately now we're delayed and in seeing how that works.
spk_0
Uh, this is an interesting one.
spk_0
I'll give our mock rookie extensions podcast some credit.
spk_0
Walker Kessler and the jazz will not reach an extension.
spk_0
Yeah, I thought that would be the end game.
spk_0
Uh, I think it's more important for Utah to keep that low cap hold and cap space next
spk_0
year.
spk_0
I do think they will try to win next year.
spk_0
Like you either, to me, you either have to trade marketing right now or you have to
spk_0
say like, okay, one more year of this shit.
spk_0
So we don't give Oklahoma City the pick.
spk_0
And then like it's on like we're going to use cap space.
spk_0
We're going to, you know, thin out the herd with these young guys.
spk_0
Most of whom, I mean, to be honest, I haven't really been any good and, uh, you know,
spk_0
make a more sincere effort at trying to win.
spk_0
Yeah, it seems I mean, the, the, although the Brooklyn nuts will be doing the exact
spk_0
same thing.
spk_0
So that, that'll be of, uh, of note.
spk_0
I mean, also the other thing they can do is if it seems like they're just not even
spk_0
close to ready, right?
spk_0
Like let's say, Kianta George is looking like someone we're not really going to want
spk_0
to extend throughout the season and East Bailey, you know, it looks like he's really
spk_0
far away if it's even ever going to happen.
spk_0
Then maybe you now trade walk us, all right?
spk_0
Cause if they had extended him at the number he was looking for, which I'd imagine would
spk_0
have been at least mid 20s, given some other contracts out there that poison pill makes
spk_0
it really hard to do in season trade once you extend him.
spk_0
But if he's just on that rookie contract number, yes.
spk_0
Then in season trade still becomes a potential thing.
spk_0
So yeah, there's a scenario where they trade Kessler and marketing admit season.
spk_0
I grew that.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So that's a note worthy.
spk_0
And then, uh, and you know, the Lakers have always been interested in, they, they got
spk_0
Deandre Aiden.
spk_0
We'll see if the, uh, the Deandre Aiden show works out particularly well, uh, this year.
spk_0
And yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's cappled like 14 million and if you started at
spk_0
25 next year, like you do get another $11 million, I think maybe Kessler also, uh,
spk_0
he wanted, it had pretty big salary expectations and the jazz like, well, we'll just take you
spk_0
to restrict the entry.
spk_0
But especially having it reported this early that it's just not going to happen.
spk_0
Uh, I thought it was interesting.
spk_0
And I understand why he, why he'd be agreed, especially because he basically got shut
spk_0
down with fake injuries for the second half last year, even though he's having a great
spk_0
year.
spk_0
And maybe you're thinking like, right, I was a good organizational soldier for that.
spk_0
And now like you're not going to pay me, I would understand why he would be upset about
spk_0
that because he had some comments saying that he did have some disappointment with the
spk_0
front-off.
spk_0
Yeah, it's interesting because so the last time we really saw that, I mean, I thought the
spk_0
sixers communicate with Tyree's Maxi, like, look, we're going to take care of you.
spk_0
Just chill, be patient.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And I don't know.
spk_0
I think the message is a little different here in Utah.
spk_0
I wasn't like, hey, don't worry.
spk_0
Like we got, we got 30 a year waiting for you on the other side.
spk_0
Just just right out with this.
spk_0
It was just like, yeah, we just not doing a deal right now.
spk_0
We'll see.
spk_0
It was like, oh, okay.
spk_0
That's a little, a little chillier, right?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And I think that's actually the right move.
spk_0
Now, the way we played it in the mock was that we kind of said, hey, we're going to give
spk_0
you this deal next off season if we don't trade you and we'll give you at least some,
spk_0
if we do trade you, it'll be to somewhere that, you know, we'll also pay you.
spk_0
So clearly that doesn't seem to have been communicated.
spk_0
I will say this though.
spk_0
Again, Austin Ainge is, it seems like he's not fucking around.
spk_0
Like he's coming in.
spk_0
He's, he just got rid of John Collins and Colin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson, all three
spk_0
of them.
spk_0
He drafted Ace Bailey, even though Ace didn't want to go there.
spk_0
And now, not very interesting that Ace Bailey has parted way with, ways with Omar Cooper
spk_0
at the same point as Sharif Cooper is signed by the Washington Wizards who were drafting
spk_0
one slot behind Utah.
spk_0
That reporting is indicated that that's where Ace Bailey was hoping to get, but he seems
spk_0
in scots in Utah.
spk_0
Like Austin Ainge absolutely did the right thing there.
spk_0
And now with Kessler, like he is negotiating pretty hard.
spk_0
And I, I kind of like that again, that that's the approach that he's taking.
spk_0
I've liked the aggressiveness with which he's got to not really given a fuck so far.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Are you a little surprised that haven't bought out Kevin Love or Kyle Anderson?
spk_0
Yeah, I don't know.
spk_0
I mean, yeah, they do have these four vets in there now, right?
spk_0
It's Neyeng, who's supposed to be a great locker room guy.
spk_0
Love, I mean, I think there's maybe something to having him around.
spk_0
Like I think he wants to be there.
spk_0
He versus like not being in the league at all.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Which is what it would be as of right now.
spk_0
Yeah, Anderson, I can't remember who the fourth guy is.
spk_0
He would speak.
spk_0
But on NERC, yes, that's right.
spk_0
Yeah, that's another interesting one.
spk_0
So yeah, I'm a little surprised.
spk_0
I assumed that he wasn't going to be there.
spk_0
I thought it was kind of interesting that he's going to be in camp for them.
spk_0
And let's see.
spk_0
What other things that we want to talk about here?
spk_0
Memphis doesn't have any bicks.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Are you saying, well, just Jack Landale count on.
spk_0
What about Jay Hough?
spk_0
He's still there.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
No, he's gone.
spk_0
He's in Indiana.
spk_0
They're best big right now.
spk_0
Might be PJ Hall on a two way, who I actually think might be able to help them.
spk_0
But yeah, no Zach Edie, no Brandon Clark.
spk_0
That's rough, man.
spk_0
Jaren will have to probably see a lot of Aldama with Jaren in the front court.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, Jaren is not supposed to be back for the start of the season either, right?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That's true.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So we'll see.
spk_0
Oh, man.
spk_0
Yeah, this is rough.
spk_0
It's basically Landale and Aldama and Landale, Aldama.
spk_0
The next biggest player is GG Jackson.
spk_0
But I think PJ Hall is going to end up playing as I look at this.
spk_0
And I think he might be okay.
spk_0
But there's still obviously suboptimal for Memphis where their basic formula for winning
spk_0
is to rack up regular season wins because they're deeper than everyone else.
spk_0
And this just chips away so hard at it where, you know, they're using second and third line
spk_0
guys now for too many minutes to really win that way.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Maybe they could throw Vince Williams Jr. in there as well.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
Such a coward.
spk_0
He's got a seven to wink span.
spk_0
I don't know if you knew that.
spk_0
He's actually one of the guys I'm most interested to see in the season.
spk_0
He's the one guy that isn't injured right now for Memphis.
spk_0
And like they've still, you know, they've got some good guards in there too.
spk_0
So I'm I'm interested to talk about them in more detail going forward.
spk_0
But it's not it's not a great circumstance to be a good.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Cause like what they want to be so much bigger than this.
spk_0
Like they want to move wells down to the two so we can go he can guard smaller players play
spk_0
coward at three, jacks in it for and then have Zach Edy, you know, at five and then Clarks
spk_0
like a change of pace.
spk_0
Like they want to be huge.
spk_0
Even though they play fast, they want to be huge at the same time and like this.
spk_0
You can't line up that way with the injuries they had.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, I mean, they have at least they have plenty of duct now for the inevitable morant
spk_0
injury or missing time at least.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So yeah, I mean, KCP is on the scene too.
spk_0
Like that.
spk_0
And I don't know.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I mean, maybe you're right.
spk_0
Maybe PJ Hall will be another one of these guys that Zach climate is just going to 3D
spk_0
print.
spk_0
It was just going to be good all of a sudden that he pulls out of his ass.
spk_0
So I'm with this team.
spk_0
I'm never willing to say they're too thin until the season actually starts.
spk_0
I agree with that.
spk_0
I'm a little worried.
spk_0
I do think I do think like getting getting at least to the play in.
spk_0
I don't think is that big an obstacle in the West this year because I think there are
spk_0
five teams that I think are pretty likely to not get there.
spk_0
But getting anywhere beyond that is pretty hard with like with this roster and this squad
spk_0
just taking the step back after last year, which I think was probably the right move.
spk_0
But I just I just this is such a transition year in Memphis already and having all these
spk_0
injuries to start start the year like it could be tough coming out of the gate.
spk_0
Houston Kevin Durant said I do see myself signing a contract extension.
spk_0
I can't tell exactly when that will happen.
spk_0
I do see it happening.
spk_0
He's been eligible since the moment the trade took place.
spk_0
It seems like maybe they're trying to figure out what's going to happen to our eastern
spk_0
before they know how much money they have because Houston could get very expensive quite
spk_0
quickly next season.
spk_0
If you have eastern on a big extension and also Katie and Fred Van Vleet now likely opting
spk_0
into that.
spk_0
Maybe they could with his ACL 25 million.
spk_0
Maybe they could get him to opt out of that and lower his per year number and give him
spk_0
a longer term deal.
spk_0
I don't know if you'd want to do that though.
spk_0
Frankly, with him being 32 coming off a tour in ACL and being a undersized guard.
spk_0
But I think that's for Houston, you feel confident that Katie is going to get that done?
spk_0
Yeah, I think what's being telegraphed here is that it's probably not going to be a max
spk_0
and we'll see, you know, is the second year going to be fully guaranteed you?
spk_0
Like probably, but I think there's going to be some, it's not going to be for the full
spk_0
freight where he's going to get like 60 million or whatever.
spk_0
Like I'd be really surprised if that's where they end up.
spk_0
That they really have to watch that second year, especially on an extension because that's
spk_0
when I'm in Thompson would be likely to be getting a max, right?
spk_0
spk_0
During Finney Smith in the offseason injury pool, by the way.
spk_0
Yeah, again, I think we're kind of seeing why maybe the Lakers weren't as interested in
spk_0
bringing him back and why he only got two guaranteed years when it seemed like there are a lot
spk_0
of suitors out there for him.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Now, yeah, so he's he's been running, but did not discuss the timeline and refellstone
spk_0
said he was on schedule.
spk_0
We don't know what that schedule is.
spk_0
He has not been cleared for best ball activities.
spk_0
He's likely to miss time to start the season.
spk_0
And so, yeah, good.
spk_0
Interesting to me, you brought up, Eastern.
spk_0
Do you extend him if you're Houston?
spk_0
No, I that's your, that's the one guy you can trade, right?
spk_0
Like partly, this is then painting themselves into a corner this off season.
spk_0
But that's the one guy with expiring money that has trade value, just like super easy to put
spk_0
in a deal.
spk_0
If you're trying to make, if you're trying to make some kind of way on move, right?
spk_0
It's like, okay, we'll trade Van Baleed and Eason and we'll take back a third of.
spk_0
Oh, well, they can't trade Van Baleed unless he can.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
I take it back.
spk_0
I take it back.
spk_0
So it's actually told me that last week.
spk_0
So I figured out, okay.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
So yeah.
spk_0
So it's like, you know, they've got Adams.
spk_0
They've got Finney Smith.
spk_0
If they could even move Reed Shepherd if they wanted to, they got Capellac.
spk_0
They have some matching salary.
spk_0
But those matches are matches teams don't want because there's so much money in the out years.
spk_0
Like I can't imagine another team being like, oh, yeah.
spk_0
Well, we'll take the Adams contract.
spk_0
Sure.
spk_0
So I think Eason in that mix is so much more tempting.
spk_0
And then if they, if they make that kind of move, they're not going to be able to pay
spk_0
Eason on top of all these other guys anyway.
spk_0
So I would, to me, I would, I would pump the brakes on, on paying Eason just because they,
spk_0
even if it ends up costing you more a year from now, like they just, they just need that
spk_0
in-season flexibility.
spk_0
Like I mean, let's see what they get from, from Shepherd and how I'm in Thompson looks
spk_0
like on the ball.
spk_0
But man, like they, they might have like nobody who can dribble, right?
spk_0
So I don't know.
spk_0
It's possible.
spk_0
They're, they're rosters so top heavy with these, with these deals they did.
spk_0
Like that capella deal I think is looking really bad already because it's just like,
spk_0
they totally didn't need the guy and they, it's like three years and 20 million.
spk_0
Now, now they, they're really handcuffed and going in different directions that are
spk_0
much more valuable for them.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Again, I mean, I think they wanted to leave Reed Shepherd as the only club in Ema Udoka's
spk_0
backup point guard bag.
spk_0
Now, for Eason, and let's take away their specific circumstances.
spk_0
What would be a fair extension for him?
spk_0
Like you and I haven't really talked about this.
spk_0
Like he's someone who I think is polarizing.
spk_0
I think he's kind of overrated personally.
spk_0
Now, like he does get a lot of blocks and steels, but I think it's an offensive player.
spk_0
I'm not really that into him is why I don't really trust his shooting.
spk_0
He makes mistakes.
spk_0
Like he, you know, but he'll get some offensive rebound.
spk_0
There's a, like the analytics really love him.
spk_0
I would say though he also hasn't necessarily been healthy.
spk_0
There are probably some people who are like, oh, this is a $25 million a year wing.
spk_0
And me, I'm kind of more like, hey, you know, a little bit up off the mid level.
spk_0
Is more what I would be comfortable with?
spk_0
And I'm like an extension.
spk_0
Where do you come down on that?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I'm kind of in, kind of in Jabari territory on him.
spk_0
Like, yeah, something around 22 to 25 million a year, I think is about right on him,
spk_0
where you're paying him to be a fifth starter or the best player off the bench.
spk_0
Yeah, I wouldn't really go beyond that.
spk_0
I think his half court fit issues on a good team.
spk_0
I think are a little concerning the injury track record is a little concerning.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
He's a little bit of a chaos agent, which I think probably translates better in the regular
spk_0
season than the post season.
spk_0
But then like for Houston specifically, to me, Eason's best position is the four and
spk_0
then maybe the three.
spk_0
And like they got so many guys there already.
spk_0
Like I just don't know how it works.
spk_0
I mean, Finney Smith is injured so far.
spk_0
So let's see if he can come back and play at the same level we did last year.
spk_0
And then maybe it makes these you to trade him like they can also be in a circumstance.
spk_0
So they just really need him for this year as well.
spk_0
And then especially because now if they're going to move them into the one, they don't
spk_0
have they've got Smith.
spk_0
They've got Finney Smith and they've got him really at the three through four.
spk_0
They'll probably use some double big stuff too.
spk_0
But I think they, I mean, they're going to need him for 25 minutes and I this year.
spk_0
And maybe if the, you know, they decide Rechepur is going to be the guy at the one and
spk_0
Thompson moves back into the front court mix and that changes.
spk_0
But for now, I think I'm happy to hold on to him, but I also want the flexibility to
spk_0
trade him and I wanted to make it through the year healthy.
spk_0
And I'm, I would just be fascinating to see like for that sort of player is there going
spk_0
to be some massive offer sheet that they're just going to not want to match.
spk_0
Like usually it's a guy who has a lot of upside.
spk_0
Who's going to get that sort of offer sheet.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I, you're right.
spk_0
I, yeah, I'd be surprised if they're going to get like the really terrifying offer sheet
spk_0
where they just have to say like, okay, Uncle, you got us.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
But he's not, he's not going to be anyone's plan A certainly.
spk_0
So I could be like, yeah, we treated this cap space.
spk_0
So we could, you know, we could, we could get, um, so we could make this run at
spk_0
Tarieson.
spk_0
Like that's, that's not what's happening.
spk_0
Well, I'll tell you this.
spk_0
If he does get extended, it's going to come in for a lot less than people think.
spk_0
People are going to be like, oh, this is an amazing deal for you.
spk_0
So because of all these reasons, there's no reason for them to do it unless it's an
spk_0
amazing deal for them.
spk_0
And that's also just been their history of like all stone in his group have done an awesome
spk_0
job. I would say of all these negotiations.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
They're not, their history is they're not going to, they're not going to sign a bad
spk_0
deal on an extension.
spk_0
I think they've showed, I mean, Jabari's probably the closest thing where you
spk_0
would question it.
spk_0
And that one, I don't know.
spk_0
We'll see.
spk_0
I mean, that has a potential.
spk_0
I think that's the jail and green special all over again.
spk_0
We're like, okay, here's the salary match.
spk_0
So this is actually what I want to close on.
spk_0
And I, for, uh, I apologize.
spk_0
Hope you'll forgive me for springing this on you now.
spk_0
But we've talked about a couple of teams Houston and Golden State that I think of as
spk_0
really good negotiating teams and General Maurice has kind of been in that mix as
spk_0
well.
spk_0
Uh, the nets also have, they've had their moments of, of negotiation other times when
spk_0
they haven't done a great job.
spk_0
But what I wanted to ask you is who are the best and worst negotiating front
spk_0
offices that, that come to mind for you?
spk_0
And I can throw out, there's negotiating on trades.
spk_0
There's a negotiating on contracts.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I would say, I would say, let's just put on, on contracts.
spk_0
I'm caught.
spk_0
Uh, I think Boston does a really good job.
spk_0
Um, they did kind of cave on that jail and brown extension.
spk_0
But yeah, I think you look at their other deals and you're like, Oh, okay, that turned
spk_0
out to be a win.
spk_0
That turned out to be a giant win.
spk_0
That turned out to be a win.
spk_0
Uh, so what about Drew holiday?
spk_0
Yeah, that extension.
spk_0
I mean, hey, they were able to get out of it for no, for that they were going to get
spk_0
picks back that, yeah, that was kind of incredible.
spk_0
Um, okay.
spk_0
Uh, and they did have a happy Drew holiday when they won the championship in 2024.
spk_0
But yeah, I mean, that was, that, the moment it was signed, I was like, this is a bad.
spk_0
Now, I had been other people who wanted to give them a bad deal in 2024.
spk_0
Free agency like Billy was out there lurking.
spk_0
Um, you know, Philly and, and Gerald, I think I've got to take off this list.
spk_0
Ultimately, I think they do a good job on trades, but the Joel extension automatically
spk_0
disqualifies you.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Um, I would, I would say the Grizzlies, it's done a good job.
spk_0
Uh, I would say I think the clippers have generally done a good job.
spk_0
Yeah, they did, they've done well with Harden.
spk_0
I would say they also did not pay Paul George, which is looking like a smart move.
spk_0
They, yeah, did, did, did, did, and then they managed to get, and they managed to get
spk_0
Kauai for only 70 million a year.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That was, that was pretty good.
spk_0
Uh, let's see.
spk_0
On the downside, I mean, obviously Phoenix, um, Toronto, I think has done a really bad job.
spk_0
Well, so, so who, who has Phoenix, that booker extension?
spk_0
Yeah, the booker extension is up there for sure.
spk_0
That's pretty ugly.
spk_0
Um, they did get, although there's the previous regime, I guess we got a five year, uh,
spk_0
five years for them and booker.
spk_0
Um, I, I would say Denver is bad.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Uh-huh.
spk_0
Um, yeah, and I was, I mean, Tim Connolly now has gone to Minnesota.
spk_0
The Denver County is spinning the same ethos.
spk_0
Yeah, I can't say Minnesota is been great either.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Pants the way they just paid towns, given the player option.
spk_0
Uh, I thought the read contract is pretty extravagant for some of the issues they have
spk_0
as well.
spk_0
Even, even, uh, McDaniels, um, yeah, I would say they get, they got a fifth year on Edwards,
spk_0
though, didn't they?
spk_0
Uh, yes, is it?
spk_0
Yes, they did.
spk_0
They did.
spk_0
Yeah, that was key.
spk_0
Uh, Chicago, obviously, I mean, they actually negotiated with Gale.
spk_0
Actually, they actually negotiate pretty well with contracts on their own players.
spk_0
Uh, uh, with one glaring.
spk_0
Uh, the boots of it extension was terrible.
spk_0
Oh, oh, oh, God, you got me with that.
spk_0
Yeah, I was just saying that for millions because they found religion like some of these
spk_0
teams that's like they are so profligate that then they just have to find religion because
spk_0
they used up all their tastes.
spk_0
They can't have anymore.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Um, out to the Kings, not very good.
spk_0
Uh, like the subonus renegotiation extension was not a huge fan of that one.
spk_0
On the good side, I really like Olden State a lot.
spk_0
I mentioned that earlier.
spk_0
I think they're top five for me in terms of their ability to negotiate with players.
spk_0
Who are you going to say?
spk_0
Uh, I was, I was debating in my own head how I felt about Orlando.
spk_0
I mean, it's kind of beyond the bad side, right?
spk_0
Like what, what good deals have they got?
spk_0
Uh, like they gave, follow the player option.
spk_0
They gave Franz the auto max.
spk_0
They gave, they gave, yeah, they gave, follow in Franz everything.
spk_0
That's, that's why I was looking at that.
spk_0
The SUGS contract is interesting.
spk_0
They definitely gave them a lot.
spk_0
I mean, I think the deals on, uh, oh, another guy who might not be ready for the start of
spk_0
the season, by the way, yes, hoping that he, there's still a long way to go before he's
spk_0
clear to play a great job.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And that's, and that's a big, uh, that's a big piece there.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I mean, have this surgery in March.
spk_0
I mean, this is, this is an injury that I hadn't known anything about.
spk_0
Uh, this, uh, let's see if I can find the exact verbiage.
spk_0
It's an unusual injury, right?
spk_0
Uh, yeah, the tricklier joint surface and they also had a cartilage fragment.
spk_0
So the tricklier joint is the groove that the kneecap slides in basically.
spk_0
Um, so yeah, I had not seen that one before.
spk_0
I, and he's had a lot of knee issues.
spk_0
I, I really want to be high in Orlando this year, but the health concerns, like SUGS to
spk_0
me is a pretty irreplaceable for them.
spk_0
Uh, the Lakers team team option.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Sorry, team player option.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
spk_0
They are negotiating with LeBron.
spk_0
They're not just giving him whatever he wants.
spk_0
That's, uh, I would say the New Orleans Pelicans are not a very good.
spk_0
Oh, I mean, yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
spk_0
Same with Toronto.
spk_0
Toronto just pays.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Toronto, I mean, there are five guys are like, they're, they're basically almost at the,
spk_0
right?
spk_0
Like almost at the tax with those five guys.
spk_0
I mean, well, the other thing you can say too is they try, when a team tries to really
spk_0
use their leverage, because like negotiating isn't only just, I'm just going to be a hard
spk_0
ass.
spk_0
Like sometimes you can't be a hard ass.
spk_0
Exactly.
spk_0
You got to read, you got to read the room and read the rest of the, like Indiana with Miles
spk_0
Turner, for example, is, and Toronto with Fred Van Vleek would be another one where they
spk_0
just let that situation get to free agency and they lost him for absolutely nothing.
spk_0
I guess not seeing that there would be an offer out there for them.
spk_0
Another great Houston contract, by the way, that two year max for him with a team option
spk_0
on the third year.
spk_0
So, all right.
spk_0
So this would be my top, I'm going to see my top three best are Golden State Houston.
spk_0
And then God as much as it pains me to say it, I kind of don't want to give them credit
spk_0
for it because they cheated, but the Clippers would probably have to be up there too for
spk_0
me.
spk_0
What about Oklahoma City?
spk_0
We didn't talk about them at all.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I mean, what good contracts have they actually signed?
spk_0
I think they, I think they signed a good contract.
spk_0
I mean, a heart and Stein.
spk_0
I mean, I don't know that that was like some great negotiation.
spk_0
They just had the money and they gave it to him.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
So they just, they paid it in an extension that's going to look pretty bad by the end.
spk_0
I mean, that was probably part of the trade.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I'm looking to see my money.
spk_0
Yeah, I thought of them and I couldn't really, I couldn't really get there.
spk_0
I mean, they've gotten a few decent ones on the back end.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And they've like, yeah, I guess they, like great.
spk_0
Yeah, but they've done more is kind of gone along with role players.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
To drag out this, this window as much as they can.
spk_0
But yeah, now they're in a different phase.
spk_0
You got three max guys.
spk_0
They got Kuroso, you know, going to go up to 20.
spk_0
So yeah, get this next thing.
spk_0
I'm monitoring.
spk_0
I'm more interesting.
spk_0
I'm monitoring Atlanta for possible inclusion here, especially since auntie salad came
spk_0
from Golden State.
spk_0
That they haven't just caved on tray young.
spk_0
That's they got a good deal on how they deal with Johnson.
spk_0
Yeah, how they deal with tray and poor Zingas and Dyson Daniels.
spk_0
They got three big ones this off season.
spk_0
I should say this not off season.
spk_0
This fall potentially.
spk_0
So I think that'll tell us a lot.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So Golden State, Houston and yeah, who would be I think those are the two that like really
spk_0
stand out.
spk_0
I mean, this is pretty good too.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
They got the fifth year on John Moran.
spk_0
I mean, if you set aside that immediate extension, I mean, Philly still got a pee in there.
spk_0
I can't do that though.
spk_0
And then worse, I'd have to say Denver comes to mind for sure.
spk_0
Portland.
spk_0
Oh, let's see.
spk_0
Let's see what happens with Shane Sharp.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Oh, that's another one we didn't talk about.
spk_0
Actually, Scoot Henderson's going to miss four to eight weeks.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
That's a big problem.
spk_0
Now, that was that wasn't a surprise.
spk_0
That was an injury on the court that happened when they were ramping up, but it's a big
spk_0
one because they're talking about how they just want to play fast and like, okay, you have
spk_0
one guy you could play fast with and he's hurt now.
spk_0
So going to be really interesting to see what happens at the point there while Henderson
spk_0
is out and recuperating.
spk_0
I mean, he shouldn't miss that much time.
spk_0
You hope, although it could go as long as eight to 10 weeks.
spk_0
So, like, just missing training camp is tough too.
spk_0
Like, he's also like, he was largely healthy last year, but it was the first time that's
spk_0
really been the case.
spk_0
And you don't like any time a young player like that is getting those sort of muscle injuries.
spk_0
It does kind of raise your eyebrows a little.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And it's going to be interesting to see like they might lean into point Danny a little
spk_0
bit based on what they have in the roster.
spk_0
Like Drew Holiday is nominally a point guard, but like, almost played as a four last year
spk_0
in Boston.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
No, he can't do on ball stuff anymore.
spk_0
That was, that ship sailed for me in the 24 playoffs and definitely last year after
spk_0
Tatum went down.
spk_0
They've had plenty of times when they could have used him creation for him and he just didn't
spk_0
have it.
spk_0
And then they got Blake Wesley is a kind of speculative piece behind Scoot, but he's,
spk_0
you know, kind of authentically challenged Caleb love on a two way.
spk_0
Let's see, they might add another guard on a two way now.
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They still have a spot open.
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It looks like.
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So really, really interesting situation the Blazers is in or in because I think they,
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in their own mind, I think they're ready to make them move up in the standings, but I
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just don't know if they have the offensive talent to do it.
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They know they want to just defend and run and stay out of the half court, but like,
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they could be really good on defense.
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But man, I just don't know how they score.
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Well, and I thought it was interesting that Jeremy Grant said he expects to start.
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I think that's a lot more likely now.
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Yeah.
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And that was, all right.
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So I was at the Blazers media day.
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So yeah, that was, that was the one like record scratch moment.
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Obviously, the Henderson injury makes it possible to start Grant at the beginning of the
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season.
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But then once, once Henderson's back, are you, are you bringing Drew holiday off the bench
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just to keep Jeremy Grant happy?
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Like, I don't know.
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That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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I mean, maybe they can rehabilitate him, but he just makes too much money for this.
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I think they, yeah, they totally missed their window to trade him.
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No, you and I had a disagreement and I was like, no, it's a totally fine contract because
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they could trade it, but then they'd ever fucking tried to trade it.
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Or they were just like, oh, yeah, late first run pigs are not worth it.
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And it's like, well, now you're stuck with this guy.
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It's, enjoy three more years of this.
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Mm-hmm.
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But hey, at least it, Damien Mleard is back, right?
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Maybe he came back because Jeremy Grant was still there.
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Coach Lellard.
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Yeah, Lellard is saying, by the way, he's not going to play.
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All right.
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Well, that was, I don't know that we need to like, pick an official top, best and worst
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in grocery and team.
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I think we hit on, hit on most of them here.
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There's awesome being back on video.
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I do still have a face for those of you who missed us on YouTube.
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I hope you will join us there.
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You can look to subscribe on YouTube and of course, subscribe to dunk down, proud to get
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every Alendjör and Duncan as well.
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Thanks so much for joining us.
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Until next time.