Connor McDavid Returns to Oilers / Phee vs. Cathy Engelbert

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello, I'm Scott Sashney, and I'm Evan Novy Williams, and this is the Mick Jesus Returns Sports

spk_0 Business Podcast, the Sportacast.

spk_0 Not going music, but name that movie I've been Novy Williams.

spk_0 What is slashing? Sleshing is like that.

spk_0 Classic. Slapshot.

spk_0 So you can get it right in the first thing.

spk_0 I can name that movie anyway.

spk_0 So you know, I don't like that.

spk_0

spk_0 Like this.

spk_0 Like that.

spk_0 Back you go to the box, you know.

spk_0 Two minutes by yourself.

spk_0 Do you feel shame?

spk_0 You feel shame.

spk_0 Okay, got it off.

spk_0 Got it off.

spk_0 No shame in Edmonton.

spk_0 Nothing but unabashed enthusiasm.

spk_0 That seismic roar you hear from Alberta is

spk_0 economic David telling the world that he's in for a couple more years with the Edmonton Oils.

spk_0 Yeah, two big things here.

spk_0 So to the deal point, two-year extension, $25 million.

spk_0 That's like, and do that, Matt Skank.

spk_0 Well done.

spk_0 $1 million a year.

spk_0 One, on the dollar sign, that is a steep, steep discount for who is basically

spk_0 unanimously the best hockey player in the world.

spk_0 We saw Carole Caprice off.

spk_0 Another great hockey player assigned a long extension for $16, $17 million a year,

spk_0 a couple weeks ago, Scott.

spk_0 There was obviously could have been more on the table for economic David here.

spk_0 Taking a discount here to stay in Edmonton is certainly a signal to fans that he wants

spk_0 to team to have a bit more money to spend around him.

spk_0 Perhaps for Goldie, we can get to that in a second.

spk_0 But this is the kind of hometown deal that every local fan wants its star player to take.

spk_0 The other side of that coin, Scott, is that a two-year deal is not a very long deal.

spk_0 And this feels to me like him saying, I'll take a discount, I'll stick around.

spk_0 I'm going to give you guys some more money to play with.

spk_0 Let's build a championship team.

spk_0 But if in two years, when I'm 30 years old and still in my prime,

spk_0 I don't feel like this has gone the way I wanted to go,

spk_0 I'm going to test the market and go elsewhere.

spk_0 So definitely a prove it to me style contract from Conor to the Oilers.

spk_0 But if you're an Oilers fan, then you see that number.

spk_0 I think you have to be absolutely thrilled.

spk_0 I don't think they care about the number at all.

spk_0 They just happy to see that he's back.

spk_0 Right? The only people who look at the number and be like, we're not thrilled.

spk_0 Probably Marty Walsh and friends at the NHLPA because the PA is absolutely hated when any players

spk_0 take discounts to help the owners out.

spk_0 But I mean, if you're McDavid, you get sort of the, all right,

spk_0 I'm giving you another chance.

spk_0 You get the halo of I'm taking a little haircut so that you can build around me.

spk_0 I don't want it to be said that I don't care about winning as the priority and it's just about money

spk_0 all that. So now it's put up a shut up time for the Edmonton Oilers, right?

spk_0 They've been to the NHL finals.

spk_0 They just haven't gotten over that hump.

spk_0 And if you want to put on sort of the ESPN hats that we sometimes like to wear here and the

spk_0 the simple reason a lot of people has said that the Oilers have not won was the gold

spk_0 ending and well, we'll see. We'll see if they go out and as they like to say, upgrade the position.

spk_0 But they've got a few bucks to spend. You've got to draw in McDavid and Drys' title.

spk_0 What goalie wouldn't want to play an Edmonton right now?

spk_0 It's a good question. And for a lot of comparison that Connor has had over the first part of his

spk_0 career to Sydney Crosby, another Canadian, another center, another greatest player of his generation

spk_0 style talent, Sydney took hometown discounts consistently and continues to with the penguins.

spk_0 And around him they were able to build a team that won multiple Stanley Cups. And as you said,

spk_0 Connor has not gotten that piece yet. He's done pretty much everything else.

spk_0 The thing he has not done yet is is lift to Stanley Cups for the Oilers, something that he

spk_0 obviously would like to do. And I think it's kind of an open question here about whether you can

spk_0 in the modern NHL, how hard it is to build a championship team when you have one of the highest

spk_0 paid players in the world. And the teams that we have seen be absolutely dominant in the NFL,

spk_0 NHL sorry in the last few years, teams like the Panthers and the Lightning have managed to kind of

spk_0 spread around the money in a way that makes it easier for them to sign a lot of mid-tier guys.

spk_0 In some ways I think this not only get posters, his image helps the team build a lot, but I think

spk_0 it sets the team up well for having more money to spread around to players that are not the top,

spk_0 top, top, top like you're Leon Drysettles and you're Conor McDevitz. And that could be instrumental

spk_0 for the franchise. All right, pressure's on Stuart Skinner, who's there? The Calvin Picard,

spk_0 is he the other goalie there? It's still the two of them, I'm not sure. But that's pressures on

spk_0 there, right? I don't know, maybe Igor Shasturkin says it's not going to happen in New York. I want to go

spk_0 to Ed. What about Mark Andrequarry? I think a little play in a game, right? A little on the tooth now.

spk_0 Yeah, I think I think the Mark Andre flurry days are over. No, but why we published our NHL

spk_0 valuations and this, how giddy am I? I love talking hockey as much as we can. We published our NHL

spk_0 valuations and like a rocket ship, everybody's reading them, everybody was talking about them

spk_0 and then Kurt Baudenhausen followed with sort of a, all right, how's the NHL going? I didn't realize

spk_0 that the cap rise coming up sort of really put the shame what has happened already. You had an 11%

spk_0 boom or rise in the cap over the previous six years, right? Now over the next three years coming

spk_0 up, you've got a 28% rise. So of course, your lower revenue clubs are saying, well,

spk_0 you know, more money to be spent, but we can't keep up with the Rangers, Bruins,

spk_0 Kings, May beliefs. So what about us? How did, and well, they'll take care of that. That the way

spk_0 the revenue share worked was 35% of playoff ticket revenue was dispersed to the lower rev teams.

spk_0 Well, for the rounds true through four, now that's going to jump to 50%. So more money going to

spk_0 the other clubs as a way of making sure that the NHL does not become a dominant two or three team

spk_0 league. And those numbers that you just gave earlier about the salary cap jump, one highlights just

spk_0 how much of a discount that this is a discount in today's dollars, who is NHL dollars for

spk_0 Conor McDavid. It's even more of a discount in two years given the way that the cap is growing.

spk_0 And then secondly, yeah, there's also a way you can see this where Conor instead of signing an

spk_0 eight year deal now gets to instead sign the long term deal when he's 30. And if he wants to go

spk_0 max contract, then gets a lot more money for signing his eight year deal in in 2027 as opposed to

spk_0 2025. So we see this in the NBA a lot. People call it the LeBron deal when you know the salary

spk_0 caps about to jump. You bet on yourself and you take that short deal knowing that you have the

spk_0 ability to sign the longer deal at a much higher number as the cap goes up. So yeah, there's maybe

spk_0 a little bit of that. I'm sure there is a little bit of that in Conor's mind, certainly in his

spk_0 Asian's mind as they think about this. But yeah, it just does show both how much the how much the

spk_0 discount is currently and also if he plays his cards right and does sign a mega mega extension

spk_0 when he's still the best player in the world in two years. Yeah, it's it's a much larger payday

spk_0 coming his way if he does that. This is having your cake and eating it too because if in two years,

spk_0 the oil is regress. They do not reach the finals or whatever it may be. If he still top form and

spk_0 the oilers do not win the Stanley Cup, who two plus years from now would say, well, you know,

spk_0 you didn't give it the old shot here. You didn't give Edmonton a chance, Conor, right? Yeah,

spk_0 he's 30 years old. No, well, I shouldn't say no one. Few, few rational would then say to

spk_0 Conor McDavid, I don't get it. Like, you know, go do the Brad Marshall and then get yourself to

spk_0 the Panthers and win a Stanley Cup. I think he's he's sort of he's made himself the good guy at

spk_0 this point. And if he decides to lead yet, not only will he be clear of sort of you greedy

spk_0 athlete label, I think. But as you said, knowing the economics of the game, he's still eligible for

spk_0 massive, massive contract in the prime of his career where he'll have multiple teams bidding

spk_0 for his services. So that won't be a problem. Is it crazy to you that he's played 10 NHL season?

spk_0 Yes. I always feel like you may I feel like you should be 35 at this point. Exactly. Yeah, I was

spk_0 we were talking in the office about how old he was. And I was like, I bet he's 30 or he's 31.

spk_0 He's 28 right now. Yeah, it just it shows how early he came to the league. And yeah, in my mind,

spk_0 I still, yeah, it's it's wild to me that that's only he's 28. And he's played 10 years. Well,

spk_0 having been out in Edmonton and having watched the focus group of one play at the West Edmonton

spk_0 Mall, I can tell you if they need a gold tender, I got one. You know, I'm ready. Just let me know.

spk_0 No pressure. No pressure. I but you know, like I've got some stats at the ready. If you if you need

spk_0 a gold tender, you let me know. And we'll make we'll make a deal. I'm happy. So it's way too

spk_0 early to be thinking about who the next best player in the world is. God, but Gavin McKenna has

spk_0 some hockey scouts and some other. The role of transition master today. Well,

spk_0 don't go. And it sounds like he had a pretty auspicious, pretty good start to his to his college

spk_0 hockey career with Penn State over the weekend. Well, I did. Sorry MLB. Sorry, everybody else.

spk_0 My attention was focused on Arizona State and Molotarina. I was watching Gavin McKenna's first two

spk_0 collegiate games and game one, two assists. You know, look, he wanted to spread the puck around.

spk_0 That's a tough spot to be in. I have a 50 scouts in the building. They're all there to see him.

spk_0 But there was one that really, really impressed me. And I love that the color commentator brought it

spk_0 up because he made a pass to a guy with a skates turn for one time or left hand. And it would be

spk_0 easy to just let it go as, okay, a goal, you know, assist to McKenna his first point, the

spk_0 whole shebang. But the color commentator said, what you really need to realize here is that he put

spk_0 the puck, the perfect speed in the perfect place where that guy could shoot it on a one-timer

spk_0 and score goal. Had it been four inches forward, two inches back, that is not the case.

spk_0 That really, really makes a difference. Like that was a really, really terrific.

spk_0 Then you watch them in the second game. And I don't know who these fools are

spk_0 rooting on Arizona State. But to start chanting overrated to a guy like McKenna,

spk_0 just a bad idea. Then he was the recipient of the pass, knee down one time or far post in and

spk_0 out of the net boom. Thank you, victory. And he skates off the ice with the things down the

spk_0 hoes. Thank you very much. It's going to be a fun year. If we could invest in, if we could invest in

spk_0 in sports of some sort, I'll talk by all the college hockey stock. Oh my gosh.

spk_0 Well, especially now with all the Canadian players coming down out of juniors. Yeah, I mean,

spk_0 besides them taking spots that I would hope the focus group of one in the future might get

spk_0 hopefully maybe who knows. I mean, outside of that, that's a bad, that's a negative for me.

spk_0 But without a doubt, you're going to see a slew of talented players. I had star recently,

spk_0 one of the other parents on the team likes to monitor all the social interwebs. And he sent me,

spk_0 I think it was an Instagram post where a guy, forgive me the age, whether he was 22, 23, whatever,

spk_0 where he had significant experience in the ECHL and the AHL. Now, for those of you who are not

spk_0 familiar with junior hockey or the minor leagues, that's like the one rung below the NHL.

spk_0 These are professional hockey players. Yeah, these are professional hockey players. And this dude

spk_0 had just committed to go to Quinnipiac. I mean, really, really? Like, what are we doing here? 18s,

spk_0 like 17 year old Gavin McKenna 18 year olds playing against this guy. Battle tested in the AHL. Come

spk_0 on. But that's the rules. So there it is. Yeah. And again, I think that I think it certainly hurts

spk_0 some some people in the development pipeline. But I think for fans, super exciting, right? The

spk_0 level just got way higher. We have new new schools like Arizona State, relatively recently,

spk_0 adding adding the sport. I think you're going to see that extend. Penn State doesn't have a huge

spk_0 tradition of hockey. Yeah, Terry Pagula said I'll give you the money to build an arena and all

spk_0 of a sudden, Penn State's on the map in a big way. Yeah, I wish we could, but investing in college

spk_0 hockey, I think is a is a growth stock at this point. Oh, we bake arena. What? Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. A little more beautiful arena. Maybe not. Graduation.

spk_0 Pretty Morris. On a Terry Morris. Allen and company. Congratulations.

spk_0 Kid commits to Princeton after committing to TAF. But that's the way it works these days.

spk_0 So there we go. There's your inside hockey. Everything you need to know on this new inside the

spk_0 ring podcast. I love it. I love it. So Penn State took Terry Pagula money. Will the Penn

spk_0 States and the big 10 will the big 10 take lots of private equity money. Not a bad transition

spk_0 there. Right. I mean, we've been hearing about a valuation of 20 billion and now we're getting a

spk_0 little more information on what that looks like. So go for it. Yeah. I mean, I, the big 10 is reported

spk_0 over the over the weekend or last week that they were considering a big capital infusion,

spk_0 private equity, more of a kind of private capital lend. And so it's basically thinking this

spk_0 as a big loan from a private equity. Don't give up anything, but you can share in like a new co.

spk_0 Exactly. And and it seems like there may be far along in that process. I've heard some mixed

spk_0 things, but everybody worth anything in college sports has spent the last two or three years

spk_0 considering all of these things, right? Talking about both at the school level, private equity and

spk_0 private capital at many of the conference levels, private equity and private capital. These are

spk_0 hard deals to get done at the school level. You have public institutions, you have private

spk_0 entities in whatever entity you're going to create this, this, this private capital lend into,

spk_0 you have weird structures of athletic departments, you have certain states, you have DSOs where the

spk_0 athletic department is a separate entity. There's just so all these thorny issues. And then at the

spk_0 conference level, you have a big range of schools with a big range of resources. And then if you take

spk_0 the big 10 here, you have schools like Ohio State and Michigan, which are making $200 plus

spk_0 million in revenue from their sport athletic departments every year. And they don't need any money

spk_0 from their from their athletic from the academic side of the building. And they're doing quite well

spk_0 athletically. And they have a huge advantage over over some of their peers. And then you have schools

spk_0 at the other end like your Rutgers in your Maryland, which make probably half to a third of the

spk_0 action. Remember years ago, the story when Rutgers was yanking phones out of professors offices,

spk_0 and yet they were subsidizing the athletic department. Yeah, I don't think that looks too different

spk_0 right now. I think I bet you there's a lot of budget cuts happening on the Rutgers academic side,

spk_0 but the athletic department is still heavily leaning on to the tune of tens of millions of dollars

spk_0 every year. Money coming from the academic side to help balance the books.

spk_0 Student fit. We're making those two groups happy is a tough proposition. And I imagine that is the

spk_0 hang up in some of these deals is trying to figure out what you're giving up on the back end in terms

spk_0 of revenue share for the next 10 or 15 years just to take on this this two billion dollars of money.

spk_0 And also how you divvy that up in a way that makes Ohio State and Michigan happy.

spk_0 But also makes UCLA and Rutgers and Maryland happy. And that's a tough one to share.

spk_0 A tough one to figure out. I think secondly Scott, what has me thinking about this is

spk_0 this is exactly what Larry Scott at the Pact 12 was trying to do nine years ago, eight or nine

spk_0 years ago. And not only was laughed at and there were other issues obviously with Larry Scott's

spk_0 leadership of the Pact 12, but this idea is not a new one. In fact, the Pact 12 was trying to do

spk_0 this a while ago. I think you could maybe write some alternative history where that deal happens.

spk_0 They get money and they were already talking to Texas and Oklahoma about leaving the big 12 to go

spk_0 to the Pact 12 and not to the SEC where they eventually landed. There's some alternate universe where

spk_0 this idea of private capital and college sports was more acceptable back then. And the Pact 12

spk_0 got a deal done and then use that money to lure some of the big schools that ended up in some of

spk_0 these other conferences. And maybe you do have a super conference at West in a way that you

spk_0 obviously do not have anymore. But I think you and I agree we're going to see private capital and

spk_0 private equity deals and college sports at some point soon. It seems like nobody wants to be the

spk_0 first mover. It seems like there's definitely fear of the proximity of the game. That's weird in

spk_0 an industry and a specific job group where people covet first mover status saying, look what,

spk_0 look how creative I am. Yeah, in some ways, I mean, I think in some ways, college sports has kind of

spk_0 bucked that tradition. I mean, it's been a legacy business for a really long time. And what we

spk_0 typically see, and I would actually expect the same thing to happen here, is that once one

spk_0 one domino falls, there is like a frantic scatter for and we saw this with conference realignment.

spk_0 The minute one team decided, oh, you know what, we're moving from the big 12 to the big 10 or

spk_0 whatever it is. Then in like a matter of days, it's like, I mean, the pack 12 died in an afternoon

spk_0 essentially, right? When one one one domino set off two or three others and suddenly they went

spk_0 from 10 teams to two. Two very big dominoes. Two big two really. Yeah. So in some ways, I think

spk_0 that is probably what's going to happen. And I will be curious if if the big 10 gets the steel

spk_0 done or if you see an athletic department at some point soon, willing to be the first one to

spk_0 sign up and say, look, here's what we're going to give away. It's basically alone, right? And

spk_0 I think people are in some ways afraid of this thing. We've seen this in like Liga. We've seen this.

spk_0 Yeah, here's our, we know, there's an outside, we've forward a media entity for all of our

spk_0 race. Yeah. I mean, you've seen it. It's not like the structures, dude, which is just the ground is

spk_0 new because it's college sports. Yeah. And as I've written about before, in some ways, the like

spk_0 multibillion deals that Learfield does, they're basically the same structure. Yeah. Right? It's

spk_0 up front money. You're getting, you're sharing in the revenue generation on the back end.

spk_0 They're long-term deals that give the athletic department some sort of financial stability and

spk_0 consistent revenue understanding. And then on the back end, Learfield gets in an ideal world,

spk_0 gets more money out of it because they're doing a lot of the work and they're and they're

spk_0 fronting a bunch of the capital. They're not exactly the same, but they're not that dissimilar.

spk_0 So this is a structure that exists in college sports already to a degree. Learfield's also been

spk_0 backed by private equity for more than a decade at this point. So there's also that. But at some

spk_0 points when we're going to see it, it's just a different pool of money. I would not be shocked to

spk_0 say that. Say that. Different pool of money. All right. So, which brings me here? Popoles in my

spk_0 argument. So I went to the Google as you were talking for quite some time there. Not that I missed it.

spk_0 Top endowments as of 2023-24. I mean, everybody knows Harvard number one, 53 billion.

spk_0 And number two, University of Texas system, right? 47.5 billion, Yale, 41 billion. So my question

spk_0 to you is if a, and by the way, those endowments have people who run them and invest the money. And

spk_0 as we know, there's no taxes on those gains yet. So if I'm University of Texas,

spk_0 I'm not fairing too well on the football field right now. I understand. But still, I am the

spk_0 University of Texas. And I am looking to get an infusion of capital. Can I not call the person

spk_0 who runs that endowment? And so I've got an opportunity for you. And I'm sure you want to, you know,

spk_0 you know, I'm, the return doesn't have to be X, my name, plus two, whatever. But why don't I take

spk_0 capital from you and put it to work in the University? Punch some holes in this for me.

spk_0 I mean, I think the easy answer is is, is no, you can't. I mean, the endowments are not,

spk_0 they're not like slush funds for the University to appropriate. But they can go by, they can go by

spk_0 public-traded companies. They can go by T-bills. They can go by, you know, so why can't they say,

spk_0 well, this is just a different venture. And I'm going to throw some capital this way.

spk_0 I'm sure there's a lot of people who are looking at this exact question and trying. Some of this

spk_0 may vary school by school. It may vary state by state. It may depend on how endowments are set up.

spk_0 But I think you're hitting on exactly the point of mixing. At the conference level, so difficult,

spk_0 which is that you have schools like UT and you mentioned that that's the system that's not just UT.

spk_0 But UT has a massive endowment itself. And you have them in a conference with schools that

spk_0 are not, I don't know off the top of my head what Mississippi states and dominates. But I imagine

spk_0 it's significantly smaller than what UT has. So you have different schools in the same

spk_0 conference that have different access to different money. Lending capacity, I imagine for a school

spk_0 like UT or a system like UT, very different than a school like Mississippi or Mississippi state.

spk_0 So the ability to just get alone probably looks a little bit different for those two institutions.

spk_0 So the cost of capital across different schools is very good. I went to the Google again, though.

spk_0 Evan, you're ready? Can I read the AI overview? And we know that I'm always accurate. I mean,

spk_0 this is all that came up right now. We can go pull it and find out.

spk_0 I should have. No, no, that was very fun. This is fun. So Harvard's endowment investments are

spk_0 managed by the Harvard Management Company HMC heavily allocated to alternative investments like

spk_0 private equity and hedge funds alongside public equities, real estate bonds, natural resources.

spk_0 As of the 2024 fiscal year, the endowment said it approximated the fund of billion. Return was

spk_0 9.6%. That's pretty darn good. Private equity, 39% hedge funds, 32% public equities, 14, real estate,

spk_0 five, bonds, five other real assets, three cash, three percent. Oh yeah, get me a piece of this

spk_0 athletic department. Come on now. I'm honestly diversified. Yeah. How are you? How about I go

spk_0 with the fund that's going to lend money to the athletic department? How about that? Can I do it

spk_0 that way? Right? Am I already there? We'll see that. So Harvard, you'd be investing in the big

spk_0 pen. That's the story we need to get when we go see which funds are doing it. Right.

spk_0 Depending on who this is, we'll say it's CVC or Apollo. Yeah, there's a very good chance that

spk_0 there's endowments that are invested. Well, that's a story we need to write in. We have to write that

spk_0 story. We should. Yeah, that's a good idea. I get one good idea. We can I got mine on Monday, baby.

spk_0 Done. Scott called shotgun on. Yeah. I just say do it. Somebody do that. Look it up. I like it.

spk_0 Yes. All right. What else are we going to do? We're going to talk about. We're trying to think.

spk_0 Baseball playoffs. What's going on? Yankees struggling. Oh,

spk_0 beat the ranks red socks and then I was driving home from a hockey game in Scranton, Wilkes Bar.

spk_0 Somebody told me you could actually take it in the office. Somebody said there's a tour for the

spk_0 office. I don't know if that was true, but they said, but I was driving home just as luck would have it

spk_0 with a fellow father on the team who's from Toronto. And we were just around Polkonos and you'll

spk_0 know this. You can't get a damn radio station there. No signal. I couldn't check whatever. So I

spk_0 15 minutes from now, we'll get to a spot where and we throw the radio on whatever it was like.

spk_0 That nine, nothing blue jays. Like, what? Is this a replay of the first game? Oh my Lord.

spk_0 So needless to say, he's very happy. I don't think baseball or the networks want to lose the

spk_0 New York Yankees in for Toronto, but hey, it is what it twizz. That's not not looking good right now.

spk_0 The one I'm looking at West as something that I'm intrigued by the Dodgers obviously slept the

spk_0 swept the reds. They're up big game one wins. Yeah, big game one winning against the Phillies.

spk_0 One game on the Phillies. The breweries obviously had the buy as the number one.

spk_0 If the Dodgers win the world series, I am going to go, I'm going to be annoying about this. So

spk_0 just prepare yourself. I am going to attach Tay in front of everybody's name for a week to Evan.

spk_0 I'm going to you will be to Evan Oscar. I did it. I've been doing that to myself at home like I'm

spk_0 watching. I'm like, Hey, and Tay Oscar is great. Hey, to Jackson. Hey, to Kim, I'm going to do

spk_0 this at the office for a week if they do this. I like this. The point I was going to make about

spk_0 the Dodgers is that Dodgers highest pay roll in baseball. Obviously, the highest by far of

spk_0 any team that made the made the playoffs because the best were fairly close and didn't make it.

spk_0 Then on the other side of the national league draw, you have the brewers. The number one seed,

spk_0 getting a lot of attention right now as the like new age money ball story in baseball did not spend

spk_0 anywhere close to not only with the Dodgers spend, but didn't spend anywhere close to what most of

spk_0 the NL playoff teams spent and a number of NL teams that didn't make the playoffs. But I like

spk_0 the narrative if they meet in the NLCS. I like this idea of new royalty spend as much as possible

spk_0 L.A Dodgers versus plucky brewers who have maybe cracked the code on how to spend half as much

spk_0 and still feel the pretty good team. I think there's something kind of nice and symmetrical

spk_0 about that happening. I don't know. Versus Walter. There you go. The marks, the battle of the

spk_0 marks wouldn't bet against the Dodgers in that just because we've seen this. And I would like to know

spk_0 by the way, even though we say that the highest spending team by far blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

spk_0 they are raking in the cash. I just want to say a lot of teams, you'll say, you're spending like

spk_0 crazy, you got luxury tax crazy, but you know, they're not making them. They are making

spk_0 bo-co-dollars. Yeah. At some point, as Kurt talked about when he did valuations earlier this

spk_0 week, he's starting to get calls about when if trajectories hold, do the Dodgers pass the Yankees

spk_0 as the most valuable team in baseball? Yeah. It would not shock me if that were to happen in the

spk_0 next five years. I mean, the show Hey Deal is paying off tremendously a number of sponsors

spk_0 incredible. I would say when, surely, if and when they develop that real estate, the parking lots

spk_0 around Dodger Stadium, because as you know, Kurt includes all the Ancillary businesses and right

spk_0 now it's just land value. There is no Ancillary business to it, but one of these days is going to

spk_0 be something 50% go to the Dodgers, 50% go to their former owner. So that would certainly be a

spk_0 catalyst that could help it happen. What else did we write down? When you went, oh, yeah, big,

spk_0 the Nefisa Collier and Kathy Engelberg. Oh, yeah. Have we not got to that earlier? Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. I mean, Nefisa, she went, she went in heavy on Kathy. I mean, she just had the worst

spk_0 leadership. And I know there's collective bargaining going on. And man, a little bit of an unfair

spk_0 fight and that Kathy can't come out swinging and start criticizing players. And but I mean,

spk_0 it was, I mean, it was, it was clearly targeted at the commissioner saying this is the winner.

spk_0 And this was about refereeing, by the way, that the almost like the league doesn't care about

spk_0 players, worst leadership out there. Kathy came out and said, you know, I'd never said things

spk_0 about Caitlin Clark that Nefisa mentioned. Nefisa apparently canceled the meeting. So we've got all

spk_0 the drama now. The usually enough just to have collective bargaining drama. But now you've got this

spk_0 as a side show to the collective bargaining. And boy, it's, it's a tough spot for Kathy Engelberg to

spk_0 be because she's got to go to that table and hammer out a deal. That's for sure.

spk_0 You've covered more labor negotiations than I have, but it does always feel like if you get

spk_0 towards the end of the, when the deadline start actually coming up and the WMBA's deadline,

spk_0 technically at the end of this month, if there is not a new agreement in place, so a work stopper,

spk_0 just quote unquote, begins, that's the offseason. But, but there is a deadline at the end of this

spk_0 month. It always feels like things start to spill over into the public just a little bit more.

spk_0 We don't know, obviously what Kathy didn't say to Nefisa or how much of what Nefisa passed on is

spk_0 accurate or inaccurate about it. I think in some ways, it doesn't matter. Like the die has cast

spk_0 so much in the form of the players in terms of how much the public is on their side. It was

spk_0 amazing to see how quickly after Nefisa said this. Other players came out. All of other players

spk_0 coming out. The public seems again, like calling for Kathy's head. She should resign. How long is she

spk_0 going to be in this job? I think you and I would both have said that even before all this,

spk_0 she's basically negotiating potentially for her job anyway in these talks. And this is a

spk_0 high leverage moment for the WMBA and it's all I ask you. The when does Adam silver step in?

spk_0 I mean, you mean in terms of placing her or just kind of, no, I mean in terms of sort of when does

spk_0 Adam silver step in? Adam's greatest attribute and his gift is he is in a Nate Bridge Builder.

spk_0 That's I've said that forever about Adam that he was the anti David David did mine. He was

spk_0 they would make anybody angry. Adam is in a Nate Bridge Builder. He can bridge people,

spk_0 gaps, he can he brings people together. That's what that's what that's close for.

spk_0 And I don't know for sure. I would bet that Adam wanted Kathy to be the face of this for a long time.

spk_0 Maybe still does. You're right at some point. If things aren't working, you need at least a

spk_0 fresh face or a fresh idea. I know obviously MBA lawyers are are very involved here.

spk_0 Can you replace a commissioner in the middle of a of a labor fight like this? I mean,

spk_0 I think that that makes things is maybe a show of weakness that you don't want.

spk_0 Already if you have a if you have a fairly weak hand in negotiation. So I would be surprised if

spk_0 if Kathy was out of this job any time before a new labor deal gets struck. But it is definitely a

spk_0 tough spot for her. It's definitely a tough spot for the MBA. It's a tough spot for owners.

spk_0 And you and I have said this for years at this point, if the players want to make this ugly,

spk_0 they can make this really ugly. And those collier comments were the first time in this entire

spk_0 process that I've been like, oh, that's a that's a step towards ugly, right? Like if they really want

spk_0 to get into private conversations they've had and and and really riling conversations about stars

spk_0 and and the way leadership. If this is a conversation, the players might continue to

spk_0 carry Jackson's out of our conference. And I got, you know, when it was like, well, you know,

spk_0 they want to invest in air travel, private air travel. They want to invest in facilities. They

spk_0 remember Terry's take was not this is Terry Carmichael Jackson the head of the players association.

spk_0 It wasn't like, okay, good. That's kind. It was like, well, it's about time and you're making up for

spk_0 lost time. You're making up for dollars that should have been spent prior. Don't say now like

spk_0 this is some great feat. So she has said a very hard line tone for the players who understand the

spk_0 leverage that they have. And boy, Nefisa coming out hard. I think galvanized that group again

spk_0 at a critical juncture and where these talks are going to be headed in the next month or so. So

spk_0 yeah, just just jumping on what you said, very, very tough spot for the WNBA.

spk_0 And I want to say just because I think it's important when we talk about Nefisa Collier to mention

spk_0 her other job. She is a union leader and a WNBA stender of she is also a co-founder and equity

spk_0 holder in Unrivaled the three on three offseason professional women's basketball. I think that is

spk_0 really important context because she again, she is both people I will get about the conflict.

spk_0 And then see conflict right from the start. No, there is none. There is none. Yeah, and I'm

spk_0 surprised it and I put this on social media last week and I did get very quickly. Some people

spk_0 who were upset and felt like I was blowing the Unrival thing out of proportion. But

spk_0 yes, it's okay to sometimes criticize conflicts on the player side as well. And I also wonder

spk_0 because Unrivaled has been great financially for these stars of the WNBA, right? It is not the entire

spk_0 WNBA class. It's just the best players in the WNBA minus a few here and there including Caitlin Clark.

spk_0 And I do wonder if you're a rank and file WNBA player, how you feel about the kind of the

spk_0 mouthpiece of this being someone who is making a lot of money in women's basketball in America

spk_0 outside of the job that she currently has and is helping lead labor negotiations. So in some

spk_0 ways, I do think there is a bit of authority issue on the player side about Unrivaled and the

spk_0 stars who play in both stars who make more money in Unrivaled than they do in the WNBA. The

spk_0 opportunity for those players, if there is a long work stoppage, to make more money in Unrivaled,

spk_0 which again, not all the WNBA players have that opportunity. Yeah, I wonder if at some point

spk_0 as this drags on, if it does, if there's any conflict there. And I imagine that's something that

spk_0 Terry has thought about and is working on for a long time now. I go nuclear. I always think about,

spk_0 okay, in a world where we keep hearing about, we're going along here, but we keep hearing about,

spk_0 well, sovereign wealth seems to be looking to get involved in sport at the highest levels and

spk_0 deploy capital like the likes we have not seen there. I say P.I.F. and live.

spk_0 You could like, you know, P.I.F is in the WTA, you know, QIA is in unmindamental. There are

spk_0 certainly sovereign wealth funds that would love to, I would think come in and say, hey, we can

spk_0 stand up a leak. We have got the resources to stand up a leak. My question, the only problem I see

spk_0 there is the arenas. Like do not underestimate the infrastructure that has been created largely by

spk_0 NBA owners who have WNBA teams and the arena infrastructure. That is not easily easy to replicate.

spk_0 And Unrivaled solves that by playing in one place. Exactly. Yes.

spk_0 Yeah, and we'll close on this, but I doubt that Maverick Carter listens to the show's copy.

spk_0 Well, why are you so negative? Why does it map? Maybe he'll show.

spk_0 Map, map, let's go on. On the show. The, the, the, the off rumored long-discussed

spk_0 professional basketball offshoot that the Maverick is advising and helping raise money for.

spk_0 My understanding is they were also looking at simultaneously launching also a women's

spk_0 so that idea and I'm sure they've been in the middle. He's talking about potential investment.

spk_0 That idea that there is an opportunity here in the W's weakness for another professional

spk_0 basketball women's basketball league to stand up fairly quickly. That is an idea that is being

spk_0 discussed in financing and sports circles around the world. Maybe Jessica Gellman can tap the

spk_0 Harvard Endowment. Just, just have it so cool. He is got Sasha. You can find him on Twitter at

spk_0 Sasha Nick. I am Evan Oby Williams. Find me at Novi underscore Williams. The show is produced by Justin

spk_0 and Bruno Wolfe today. Thank you very much to Justin. Sebastian Milo, Carol Winston,

spk_0 Matt Palazzo. I would like you to know that you can follow the show at Sportacast, which is the hubs

spk_0 of the Sportico media network.

Connor McDavid Returns to Oilers / Phee vs. Cathy Engelbert

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