Sports
Concerns For Warriors? Not Enough Respect for Thunder? + Flagg Ready to Roll
In this episode of the Hoop Collective podcast, the hosts discuss the latest developments in the NBA, including Jonathan Kaminga's new contract with the Warriors and the implications for the team...
Concerns For Warriors? Not Enough Respect for Thunder? + Flagg Ready to Roll
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Speaker A
Foreign.
Speaker B
Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the MBA which we're doing on different days in different parts of the world. So I'm in Abu Dhabi. It's Thursday to me right now. I just woke up. But everybody else here hasn't gone to bed yet. So it's a little bit more complicated at this particular moment. Joining us from the Bay Area in California, he's been to Cleveland and Boston though this week to see the Cavs and the Celtics is Tim Bonteps.
Speaker A
Oh, Brian. Saw a little warriors action today and we almost had this on three different continents. If Jackson had just decided to stay in Europe an extra day, we could have really spread this out.
Speaker B
Yeah, we're really testing, we're really testing jet lag right now because Jackson is just back from Oktoberfest and he is fighting jet lag. I just woke up, so I'm, I'm fine. I'm ready for the day. Joining us from Vancouver, so we go to a third country with the Dallas Mavericks at their training camp is Ban McMahon.
Speaker C
Howdy, partners. I think Jackson might be fighting something a little bit more than jet lag coming from Oktoberfest, but it's just a suspicion that I have. Wendy, I gotta ask you, how do you feel about Bond temps having a little side piece? Oh, saw that Warrior stock report with Anthony slater on our YouTube channel. Kind of cheating on us a little bit.
Speaker B
I saw it was posted. Yeah, you can check out Bontemp's new feature with Anthony's. It's not really new, it's the new old feature.
Speaker A
It's a callback to a classic. It's a callback to a classic.
Speaker B
Back when Bontems covered the, he covered the NBA for the Washington Post. He lived in San Francisco and the warriors were at the peak of their powers. And after every game he actually, every home game at least you would do like a two and a half minute.
Speaker A
Twitter 2 minutes and 20 seconds because that was the limit on Twitter. And Slater reminded me today, I couldn't remember. This began because he, Marcus Thompson and I would sit on press row at Oracle and argue about whether Javale McGee was actually any good.
Speaker C
I know what you're.
Speaker A
Marcus was like. Marcus was like, you guys should just do a video on this. So we did and became the. Became the stock report.
Speaker C
Javale McGee dominated in Australia.
Speaker A
That was the irony. This week at coming back javale, I saw a clip of people doing. Doing NBL TV coverage saying that Java looked like Wilt. I was like, well, here we go. Time is a flat circle right there we go like 32 and 16.
Speaker B
And I think he like, he wasn't even there for their most. Some. All their training camp, so. All right, well, training camp proceeds across the globe. Yeah. Speaking of Australia, the Pelicans are in Australia. The Net are the Warrior who's going to China. The.
Speaker A
The Nets. The Nets, Josiah's Nets. And the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker B
Phoenix Suns, Macau.
Speaker A
Right. And you've obviously got the teams from my neck of the woods normally, the Knicks and Sixers in Abu Dhabi with you.
Speaker B
Yes, Abu Dhabi is very welcoming and the. I went to the practices for the Sixers and Knicks yesterday. I will be seeing their game my today.
Speaker A
I think it'll be friends of the pod there.
Speaker B
Oh, yes, Nick Nurse is here. Nick, Mike Brown was very and you know, enraptured by the desert experience that the Knicks had while they were here a couple days ago, including getting some players to ride on camels. I'm not sure if Mike actually wrote on any camels.
Speaker C
You've been riding camels?
Speaker B
I. I have not been riding camels. But Adam Silver is here. Mark Tatum is here. There's a lot of NBA business happening here in Abu Dhabi and so we'll have more to talk about that later. Also, I don't want to talk too much about it before I see it play, but just we're in weird timing. But I got, you know, Mike Brown is allowing the media to watch. He's allowed the media to watch more of practice in the last three days than. Than Tom Thibodeau did in five years. Just fine.
Speaker C
Let him watch what free throw shooting.
Speaker B
If not even most of the time. And so we've gotten an opportunity to see the Knicks offense in action a little bit. So I'm a little bit out of. You know, the game will have taken place by the time this is posted. We'll see. But we'll timestamp it a little bit here that what the Knicks are doing in practicing looks very, very different from the way that they've played in recent years. Now, look, I am from. You know, obviously I am not going to evaluate the Knicks on what they're doing in the first day of September, first day of October, do I believe that they're going to break the old habits and that the ball will leave Jalen Brunson's hand? Like I'm seeing it where I'm seeing just really I'm kind of watching a Spurs 2010 style offense from the Knicks where the old Greg Popovich 0.5 rule, which is you get the ball and you have half a second to decide to pass or shoot. That's what the Knicks are doing in practice right now. Does that actually going to translate? I mean, Jalen Brunson, I'd like to point out, missed like seven or eight games last year and he led the league in dribbles. So I think and I don't think it was close. So I mean that's going to be an old habit to break, but we'll see.
Speaker C
Well, but Brunson also has played off the most ball dominant player in the league. Like Brunson came up playing off of Luka Doncic. It's not like he's always had the ball his entire career so he can play different styles.
Speaker B
He also has become a superstar since dominating the ball. Yes, we'll see. And the story on the Sixers and this will be real quick and then we're going to move on to the Warriors. They're going to be missing like five or six players just for these two.
Speaker A
Games here, including Quentin Grimes who just signed his qualifying offer Wednesday.
Speaker B
Yes, he is not here, but I did see so Joel Embiid was not participating in the part of practice that I saw. Paul, Paul George was doing some, some practicing. He's not going to play here.
Speaker A
Have they said if Joel's going to play or not?
Speaker B
I mean it is my understanding again, this will be dated. It is my understanding he is not.
Speaker A
Going to play the I just didn't know. I didn't know if they'd said either way at all.
Speaker B
The way it was said to me is a very high ranking Sixers person said to me we're going to be missing five or six guys, so we'll see.
Speaker A
Sounds like a normal day for the Sixers.
Speaker B
I will tell you this though, for Sixer fans, as I talked to some of the veterans that I know there's a lot of excitement about Vijay Edgecombe. We all know that athletically he is extremely gifted and there has been a pleasant surprise so far in training camp and in the workouts leading up to it about how his shooting has looked, that his shooting has shown good improvement. Now again we're talking about the earliest of early days here, but, you know, Tyrese Maxey is fully healthy and fully energized. He was bouncing around. He was his total typical self. And so if you've, if you've got anything to lean on, you can lean on that. The excitement of that young backcourt also. And I'm, I don't know why I'm saying this, but the Sixers are optimistic that they're going to have their team. I mean, I'm just reporting, I'm just reporting. I'm just reporting what they're saying.
Speaker C
Okay, that's enough.
Speaker B
Okay. All right, let's go out. Let's go out to the Bay Area, which is approaching 10,000 miles away from me there. Bon Temps. Two interesting pieces of information, one we kind of expected and one that I didn't fully expect. What we expected was that Jonathan Kaminga was going to be back with the warriors before this. The midnight struck on October 1st because that was when his, his, his qualifying offer was expiring and that made it complicated. So he signs a two year, forty something million dollar deal. I've seen a bunch of different numbers yet.
Speaker A
I haven't seen 46, 46, 8, I believe is the official number. Plus a trade.
Speaker B
Right. Which he seems to think there's a good chance he'll get traded in. Aaron Turner, his agent, when he came on the pod a couple weeks ago, pretty much, pretty much admitted this contract was being signed to be traded.
Speaker C
But yes, he's a trade exception. Who's going to get some minutes?
Speaker B
Yeah, he's going to get some minutes. So Bon temps, what was the demeanor out in Golden State now that that had been cleared?
Speaker A
Well, John of the Kaminga, where this, this pod is going to post Friday? It's right now, Wednesday night. So Wednesday afternoon, Al Horford had his introductory presser, as did the Anthony Melton. And then Steve Kerr spoke. And actually in backwards order, those guys spoke last. And then Steve Kerr and Mike Dunleavy, general manager, the warriors spoke for the first time since the Kaminga signing was announced earlier Wednesday and was agreed to on Tuesday. And look, I think the John of the Kamiga camp has made a whole lot of noise for the past few months and said a whole lot of things and made a whole lot of threats, including on this pod, about going to take the qualifying offer. We got to get a trade, a player option. We got to get this, we got to get that. The end of the day, they caved and they totally caved. They gave up everything they Said they weren't going to do. They waived their no trade clause in this contract so the warriors can trade them anywhere they want. They got a team option on the second year. I personally would have advised Jonathan Kaminga to sign the two year deal with a third year team option and guaranteed himself $48 million personally. But he has chosen to take the shorter deal to get himself two free agency. In theory, sooner or when he gets to a new team, a new long term deal with them sooner. We will see if that winds up being wise business. But look, I would say for Mike Dunleavy and the warriors, you know, Mike got up there and said all the right things today, that Jonathan's had a good summer. They've seen him working out, they're, you know he's going to show up. They expect him to show up and do his job. Steve Kerr, our buddy Nick Friedell was good to see him today. There was a bit of a callback. I don't know if you guys Remember back in 2015, 16, the Chicago Bulls had Dwyane Wade and Jimmy Butler and Rajon Rondo on the team. Remember what those guys were called? The Three Alphas. The Three Alphas. Well today Steve Kerr very, I don't believe he meant to do this, but he was asked about, well, what is, you know, how are you going to, I think Nick might have even asked him, how are you going to manage kind of an uncomfortable situation in the locker room with this guy who, you know, spent all summer talking about wanting to leave. Now he's here, it seems like a tradable contract, like kind of, how's this going to go? And Steve goes, well, you know, Jimmy Butler's an Alpha, Steph Curry's an Alpha, Draymond Green's an Alpha. Those guys are going to run the locker room. It's all going to be fine. Which Nick and I had a laugh because Mike Dunleavy was on that Bulls team with the Three Alphas and those Three Alphas didn't go so hot when they were together. Now we'll see how this warriors team is.
Speaker C
Those Three Alphas were going at each other that well.
Speaker A
That is also true. There was a lot of that too. Um, so that was a funny line. But look, I, I, to me, I thought the most interesting thing said today in general was when Mike sat down and started his presser. The first thing he talked about, I think Slater asked him initially, you know, it's basically a tradable deal. What do you think about it? And Mike said, look, a year ago I would have sat here and said, we have to get better from where we are to start a camp right now. I'm not sure I like, I don't believe that right now. Doesn't mean we're not going to maybe make moves later. But I really like our team. And that was the message he kept delivering throughout his presser, is that he believes the warriors are good enough to be a real factor in the west and to make a run. Now they have a bunch of guys north of 35. We've talked about how old the Clippers are. The warriors are that on steroids with Steph and Jimmy and Draymond and Al Horford, and we'll see what happens with the Kaminga thing between now and February 5th. But they feel pretty confident that if they can get to the playoffs and those four guys are healthy, plus whatever they add over the course of the year, and they can maybe have some of these young guys, Brandon Pajemski and Trace Jackson, Dave, some of these guys get better, that they can be as good as anybody in the west, especially this side of okc. And it's going to be interesting to see if they're right.
Speaker C
I mean, I understand them feeling that way. You look at the record with Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry in the lineup together, you know, that's a contender caliber record.
Speaker A
It's a 22 and 5, right?
Speaker C
Yeah. What is that? It's like a third of a season sample size, you know?
Speaker A
Yep.
Speaker C
The health with guys that age obviously, is a huge, huge if. But, you know, the Kaminga thing, this is a fine, temporary solution. And I don't think it's not in Kaminga's best interest to be raising hell early in the season. Look, does he want to be there? He would have preferred to have gone elsewhere. Everybody understands that. They would have preferred to get good value for him and move on, too. It's a temporary situation. This isn't like, oh, say, his teammate Jimmy Butler last year in Miami, where he's going to burn the place down so he can get the hell out. They want him out. He wants to get out. Now, if he's still there after the trade deadline, could that get toxic? I could certainly see that. And then I think the biggest question is, is he. Is he going to be bought in? Is he going to be really doing the kind of things that Steve Kerr and the vets in the locker room want him to do to help a team, you know, to help the team win, you know, as opposed. Like, is he going to do stuff that doesn't involve him putting the ball in the basket. And if he's not doing that stuff, then it might not be him raising hell, but they're, you know, it could get uncomfortable.
Speaker A
The thing I thought that was interesting, Steve Kerr said, was that to go back to how old this team is, he was like, look, we're going to have days where Jimmy isn't playing or Steph isn't playing. Maybe they're both not playing and we're going to need this guy to put up shots in those games and to play a big role in those games. And, like, we're going to need him to do stuff. So to your point, I do think some of the way that they might be able to massage this over the first couple months of the season is that there will be games where it's like, hey, Jonathan, you're going to get 22 shots today because Steph isn't playing or Jimmy isn't playing, or maybe, again, maybe they're both not playing. And I think they'll find places where they can sort of strategically do that to let him eat some. But, yeah, I think for the other thing we're going to get into in a bit about the warriors this week, you know, Steve has shown he's not going to have any problem not playing Jonathan Kaminga if he doesn't think it's going to help this team win games. And again, he's now under contract, which is good. But there's really not a lot of incentive for them to jam a square peg in a round hole if he's not playing the way they need him to. And they can go to a guy Santos or somebody else who can do the things Steve wants to do, and he could find himself back out of the rotation like he was at times the last couple of years.
Speaker B
So I'm just smiling about the idea of Gi Santos playing over Jonathan Kaminga.
Speaker A
It's. That's what happened. It's what happened at the end of last season. And if you look at the advanced numbers, there's arguments for that at times.
Speaker B
I'd like to make a resolution on this podcast, and that is that after this one, we're not going to talk about Jonathan Kaminga for a while. Obviously, we can all think we can.
Speaker A
All sign up for that one.
Speaker C
Hey, I think Kaminga is going to put up 50 in the opener. We're going to be talking about, hey.
Speaker B
Listen, if he does that, then he will have earned it. Like I think most seasoned people in the NBA knew this was going to get Done. And obviously it was because the warriors are such a huge fan base and because there's so much focus on them.
Speaker A
It became only because he's a piece that they could turn into something else. That's the other thing. It's not just like he's on the team. It's that, like McMahon said, this was a. Essentially turning this into a trade exception to use in January to try to make them better.
Speaker B
And when they do that, we'll talk about it.
Speaker A
That's right.
Speaker B
I will say one thing to point out, just for procedural reasons, any players who sign this off season, they can't be traded until December 15, but if a player earns a certain threshold of a raise, they can't be traded until January 15th. So that's why you're going to hear some players are going to be able to be traded in December. But in Kaminga's case, because I don't remember what the percentage is. Bon temps. But he.
Speaker A
I don't remember either, but he exceeded it.
Speaker B
So if Kuminga is traded, it will be between January 15th, which is when he can be moved, and February 5th, which is the trade deadline.
Speaker C
So you can't be traded until January 15th.
Speaker B
Then neither can you.
Speaker C
I might still be December.
Speaker B
So the.
Speaker A
You're over the percentage.
Speaker B
The. That's the thing. So we can retire, trade, talk about Kaminga for a while, even if that will be a thing later on and we talk about the warriors, we can focus on, you know, the future hall of Famers that have on their roster.
Speaker C
Listen, if you talk, if you have Aaron Turner back at the podcast, he'll tell you that includes Kaminga.
Speaker B
Listen, I appreciate Aaron coming on and if, if Jonathan Kaminga runs together five or six All Star seasons, then we can talk about him as a future hall of Famer and, you know, maybe he will. But. But the Warriors, I think is important to point out that they finished very strongly last year after Jimmy Butler was traded. And, you know, there's a couple of teams that can, in the Western Conference that can look you with a clear eye and say the way we play at the end of last season means that we're going to be in great shape. That would be the warriors who believe that. And that's. Steph talked about that, you know, this week already. The Timberwolves.
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker B
Can say that.
Speaker A
Well, in the warriors and the Warriors, I mean, if you ask the warriors, especially if you give them some truth serum, I think they'll tell you they. If Steph hadn't got hurt in game one you know, game two of that series against the Wolves, I mean, they thought they were going to be playing Oklahoma City in the conference finals. And I will say, we've all talked about how great we think the Thunder are. This is certainly not backing away from that. But if there's anybody that's given them trouble over the years, it's been Steph Curry. And the way Steph plays, they have consistently had trouble guarding him. And so.
Speaker C
Yeah, so here's everybody else, by the way.
Speaker A
No, I know, but I'm just saying, like, for as great as their defense is, he has really given them fits. And if they were, if they walk into a series with the Thunder, they're going to think they can go at them. So, you know, and I'm, look, I'm still picking the Thunder to win the title. As I repeatedly said all summer, I think they're the heavy favorites to beat everybody for a reason. But, you know, Golden State had a lot of reason to leave last season thinking if we make improvements, we can. We got a puncher's chance. And, you know, I think they've overall had a good summer. They got a chance to get better in January, and all the numbers with, you know, their stars together looked very good. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
Speaker B
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Speaker C
Mayday. Oh, my God. There's hundreds of them.
Speaker B
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Speaker C
No, it's not.
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Speaker A
The Hulu Original series Chad Powers is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply.
Speaker B
New episodes episodes Tuesdays. I would just say about the thunder. I don't want to divert a win for the warriors too much. Last year, one of the big themes was that nobody feared them. Nobody. You know, that was the thing. Oh, I don't care if they win 75 games. They obviously sent that message loud and clear by raising the banner. But they did have two seven game series.
Speaker A
So look, this, this feels so much. This feels so much like The warriors in 2015. 16. I'm. I'm almost tempted to say I think they're going to win 70 games because, like, it's the same exact year that team. Well, that's the, that in 14, 15, the warriors won 66 games. They were the heavy. They, they dominated the whole season. They then went through the playoffs. They won the title. That whole summer. All we heard was that they, it was a fluky title.
Speaker C
Jump shooting.
Speaker A
Cavs got hurt.
Speaker C
Yeah, jump shooting.
Speaker A
No, not that it was. The Cavs were hurt. They weren't. They wouldn't have beat them. I'm just saying. I'm not, I'm not saying you. We, we don't need to relitigate all that. I'm just saying that whole summer was just a litany of, ah. This team wasn't actually as good as the record. They actually weren't that good. They're. I don't really believe it. And then they came back and I think they started the next season 25 and 0, 24.
Speaker B
Yeah, well, I don't think anybody is saying that about the Thunder. I'm just saying I think it's a.
Speaker A
Lot closer to that.
Speaker B
I don't.
Speaker A
It's a lot closer to that than. The Thunder are heavy favorites.
Speaker B
I don't think it's. I don't think it's comparable at all because I think. Because I think the Cavs were looked at as having LeBron James in his prime and several other major players.
Speaker A
I think it's comparable McMahon because Cav's corner was on the other side. I think that's why it's not comparable.
Speaker B
Oh, it's not comparable because the. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fall into this trap.
Speaker C
Come on, Wendy, he's reeling you in.
Speaker B
I mean, with all due respect to the, the, the, the Pacers, I, I'm sorry, I do not think that they have a LeBron James in his prime again.
Speaker A
I, I wasn't trying to turn this into a specific relitigation of Warriors Cavs, which I know in Northeast Ohio there's a lot of sore feelings and maybe they could.
Speaker C
No, not at all.
Speaker A
I'm just saying. I would say there is a similar feeling of the Thunder. I still think going into this season, the Thunder are not being treated like a team that just won 68 games and won the title.
Speaker C
Which is crazy because the Thunder should be better than they were last year. They have a roster full of ascending talent. Chet Holman missed more than half the.
Speaker A
Year and then had to say hardenstein missed a bunch of games.
Speaker C
Yeah, like, I mean, they should be a better team than the 68 win team that had a historically high point differential and won a championship.
Speaker A
I mean, there were people that were surprised in the survey that they got 18 out of 20 votes to win the west and win the title. That like there wasn't more votes for other teams.
Speaker C
Well, that didn't surprise me.
Speaker A
I don't agree. Well, I don't agree. I don't agree with that. I think you should have got 18 votes. I'm just saying. I, I don't think they're seen the way they should be. It's the Thunder like that, where his.
Speaker C
Team was, and then potential challengers. The warriors have every right to feel like they can be a potential challenger. You know, the stuff we talked about. The Timberwolves after going to the conference finals the last couple years and really during the season last year, having to figure out a lot of fit things, really got it figured out with Julius Randle alongside Ann Edwards. The Nuggets with their improved bench. That is a team that pushed OKC to, to seven games. You know, obviously the coaching change, you know, breathe some life into. Into that team. By the way, how crazy is it David Adelman has seven playoff wins and three regular season wins in his coaching career?
Speaker B
It's one of the craziest stats you'll ever see.
Speaker C
I don't think you'll ever see that again. And then, you know, the Rockets, the Van Vliet things, a huge blow, but they've, I think, got to put them on the list. And honestly, I think he. I think the two LA teams are somewhere in that. I think there's a pretty fat tier of potential challengers and they're in that tier.
Speaker B
Just again, point out, not that I'm predicting this. The Wolves made the last two conference finals. Yeah, point that out.
Speaker C
And the Mavericks think they're in that tier. They are not on the list of teams that finished last season strong to give them, you know, momentum going this year.
Speaker B
We'll talk about the Mavericks in a minute. I don't want to get away from the Warriors. Even though we've been pulling far, we.
Speaker A
Got away from the Warriors.
Speaker B
All right, so we'll see how they actually play on the court. But the warriors delayed and, you know, I don't exactly know the reason Because I've been overseas, but I assume it was Kaminga related. It is not unusual for teams to make their general manager and head coach available days before media day. And then certainly if you know the head coach, if he hasn't given a preseason address yet, always speaks on media day. Often the general manager does, too. In the case of the warriors, neither the general manager, Mike Dunleavy or coach Steve Kerr talked on media day. And I get it, they had the Kaminga thing outstanding. So Dunleavy spoke. But after the first day of practice, with which you would now have joined the team, joined alongside the team Bontems, Steve Kerr spoke. And Steve Kerr, who is in his 12th year as the head coach of the warriors, has won four championships, has been to five finals, six finals, talked about his complete comfort level with.
Speaker A
Being.
Speaker B
On the final year of his contract. He not only does not have a contract for this year, but said that he doesn't expect there to be negotiations about a new contract and said that he's completely comfortable with that. He's in a very good place with Mike Dunleavy and Joe Lacop, the governor. I spent a little bit of time with Steve Kerr this off season. I had dinner with him one night. He seems in a very good place. But Steph Curry is multiple years on his contract. Jimmy Butler has multiple years on his contract. You know, this, this, you know, hoping for good health. This warriors run is going to extend, you know, whether or not they're going to be good enough to, to get back to the Finals. It's one of the things we're going to be watching for the next six months. But, but the comfort level with the warriors themselves, Bontemps, because this isn't just about the Steve Kerr's comfort level, but the warriors comfort level with not having Steve Kerr under contract and Steve's open comfort level with it. While it might sound like everybody's not stressed about it, I think it's an interesting development that's going to be allowed to get to this point.
Speaker A
Yeah, I think it's an interesting development, too. I was a little surprised that Steve just came out and said it. I talked about this with Slater on our thing today. It reminded me a little bit of when I was at media Day in 2018, right before coming over here and I was still at the post and living out here when Steve Kerr got up there on the podium and basically just said, yeah, Kevin Durant's leaving next summer, so we're just going to have a fun year and we're not going to we're not going to really spend a lot of time worrying about what the future looks like. You know, they even called it, like the last dance.
Speaker C
It was not a fun year.
Speaker A
Well, it ended up being a challenging year.
Speaker B
Well, they reached the finals, but it.
Speaker A
Was not a fun year. It was not a fun year. But, but I think, and I'm not saying that like it reminds me of that in the, in the sense that I think Steve is like, definitely leaving next summer. He's not going to coach next year. But what I mean is Steve is obviously a master of managing the media and managing the emotional IQ of the team. And I think if you're. Everybody knew his contractual status, right? And if you just come out and say the first day, hey, we're going to talk about this in the spring, going to have a great year. I'm going to.
Speaker B
It's the fall.
Speaker A
What's going. Whatever. Talk about it in spring. We're going to get through the season. We'll sit down, we'll talk about it then. I feel great about where everything's at. You know, what you do, you remove it from the menu of options for people to ask you about between now and then, Right. If you just said, ah, you know, worry about it later, it's fine, then in a month might say, hey, Steve, your contract, like, where are we at? Right. But by sort of taking it, addressing it and putting it over here, he removed it from the potential storylines for the season. And frankly, I mean, it's not too different than what his former coach, Phil Jackson, did many times in his career. And Steve Kerr, like Phil Jackson, is in the extraordinarily enviable position of being able to do whatever the hell he wants.
Speaker B
That's right.
Speaker A
And if he wants to be the coach of the warriors next season, guess what? He'll be the coach of the warriors next season. And if he wants to test free agency and see if he wants to potentially coach somewhere else, he can go do that and he'll get a job in three seconds. And if he decides he wants to go back and do television, he will be the most sought after television person in a long time. He's already been great at it in the past. He'd be great at it if he does it again. He'll get a giant check if he does that. And if he wants to just go hang with his grandkids and be done, he can do that. And he'll walk into the hall of Fame as one of the five best coaches ever. Right? So if you're In a position where you can dictate your terms of what you want to do, why wouldn't you say, hey, yeah, I'm just going to go through the year and enjoy it and see what happens next summer? Because he's not. He's not. Some coach has to worry about being a lame duck.
Speaker B
I remember this. You know, when I think about this, you're right. This happened with Phil Jackson. He sort of went year to year. I remember this happening with Joe Tory.
Speaker A
Oh, yes.
Speaker B
He was the coach of the Yankees, and they were winning all those championships in the 90s, around the turn of the century. And for like, several years in a row, it was like, is Joe Tory going to come back? And like, literally, the media would camp outside Joe Torrey's house in October or November.
Speaker A
His house is Steinbrenner's house.
Speaker B
And they would like, wait, you know, is Joe Tory returning his coach? So, yes, you are correct. Manager, skipper, whatever. Yes, you. You do reach a level where, you know, you have decision. This kind of happened, I think, with Doc Rivers, too, in Boston. You know, they. He had a lot of success, and it was, you know. You know, he would get asked at the end of every season, like, are you coming back? And, you know, several times the answer was, yep, I'm coming back. And I remember one time the Clipper trade. Yeah, I remember one time the. The Heat beat the Celtics in the playoffs and the post game series was over and the post game press conference was on, and the Boston media had to do what they do with Doc, what they're doing with Doc at the time when they were like, doc, are you coming back to coach next year? And he's like, oh, yeah, I signed the contract extension about six, eight weeks ago. Yeah, I'm coming back. And I was like, oh, my God, you know, okay. But then there was one year where he said, I got to think about it. He didn't say he was coming back right away, and he ended up on the Clippers a few weeks later. So it does happen. Having said that, it is unusual that a coach of his level actually reaches free agency. And the comeback is more like, well, we'll either go our separate ways or we'll stay together. It's unusual that's the case. So I don't. I don't think it's panic time. I don't think it necessarily is indicative of anything, but, you know, Steph and Jimmy got their contracts, you know, aligned, and, you know, Kerr's is not. I just. I think.
Speaker A
Well, and I think if Steve Wanted. Here's what I would, I feel very comfortable saying. If Steve Kerr wanted his contract to be aligned with Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler, his contract would be aligned with Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler. And I think, like, the guy is approaching 60 and he's had a hell of a run. And I, like, you know, I think it's, I think it's as likely, and this is just me speculating. I have not talked to Steve about this at all, but I haven't known him for a long time. I would guess it's more likely he doesn't coach at all after this season and he explores free agency and goes and coaches another team. Like, I don't. We'll see what he winds up doing. But I feel like it's, yeah, do I want to do this again?
Speaker C
I mean, and, and look, as far as coaching jobs go, coaching Steph Curry is a pretty sweet gig.
Speaker B
You'd be the first to say that.
Speaker C
I mean, from just like the talent, the personality, all of that.
Speaker A
All of it.
Speaker C
So, yeah, I, you know, I'm not saying there's no way Steve Kerr would go coach another team, but, man, like, it's going to be tough to find greener grass than that. But it's, it's a demanding job, you know, I mean, it's demanding job. He's done very well for a long time, made a lot of money, and maybe he does at the end of the season, just look in the mirror and say, I need to step away.
Speaker B
Or I want, by the way, one of the one, you know, you can play what if games all day long, all night long for you guys, all.
Speaker A
Day for what you're going to say.
Speaker B
Because you're talking about Phil Jackson. Yeah. One of the more remarkable what ifs of the last, of the, of the, of the century so far. When Phil Jackson was running the Knicks and he had, you know, decided he, you know, he had hired Steve Kerr. Steve Kerr. You know, I don't, I mean, I don't know how much of committed. I don't know how you want to use the word committed, but like, you know, he was going to be the head coach of the Knicks and then the warriors job developed. Mark Jackson was, was let go. And the warriors job was a very attractive job on the west coast with his, where his family was, you know. Again, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not looking to get aggregated for what happened.
Speaker A
There's an even bigger what if to this than the Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr one, which is what if Stan Van Gundy, who was the warriors top pick had chosen to coach the warriors instead of going to have both jobs with the Pistons? He was their top choice.
Speaker B
Whoops.
Speaker A
Well it's, I mean I'm not saying I don't know if the warriors would have been the team they are if Stan had gone there. But like that, that's to me the much bigger what if like Stan was the number one choice. They were like, do you want our job? And he said I'm going to go to Detroit and have full control of basketball operations and be the coach. And that's where the Steve Kerr thing came in after that, because of what.
Speaker B
Happened when he was in Orlando when he was very successful and his, his star player Dwight Howard tried to get him traded which he announced in front of the media, which is, I mean while drinking a Diet Coke has been.
Speaker C
A better post practice coach media availability than that. Especially when you know, Dwight comes over and what was it? Diet Dr. Pepper, Diet Coke, Diet Coke.
Speaker A
While the New York, while the New York Knicks media was standing there, oh.
Speaker B
My God, I will say it was, you know, Dwight just went into the hall of Fame in August or was it September whenever it was recently and he shouted out Stan, who was in the crowd? And you know, made a reference to that.
Speaker C
He didn't shout out Mike Dantonium. And Mike was in the crowd too.
Speaker B
Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker C
Adam and Elliott, Mike was there. You know, Mike coached both Dwight and Carmelo Anthony. I think the other players who enjoyed coaching more during his great, not quite.
Speaker A
The Steve Nash level relationship with those fellows, I'll put it that way.
Speaker B
That's true.
Speaker A
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
Speaker B
All right, speaking of contracts, there was a rookie contract extension that happened while I was sleeping in Abu Dhabi first.
Speaker C
When you sleep update of the season.
Speaker B
I had a great night's sleep. I passed out about 10 minutes after I was on NBA Today with you at about 4:15 Eastern. Anyway, Nikola Jovic from the Miami Heat agrees to a four year $62 million extension with where the salaries have gotten where with the new cap that is really not that far above the mid level exception. So it is huge money. Yeah, it is a huge money and but a, you know, a certainly a reasonable deal for still a very young player who is very tall, shoots the ball well and highly athletic. It just, I think whenever you're examining the Heat because the Heat are always, you know, eyeing the next big acquisition. You just keep an eye on where their cap sheets are and you know, one of the things about Miami is this off season is, well, it's off season is over. But what they might do with a Tyler Hero contract, Tyler Hero is extension eligible and you know, whether they want to protect their books going forward, certainly, you know, this is a very reasonable number to invest in. A player like Jovic maybe ends up being a good deal, maybe it's not. He's, he's a player that has been requested in trade discussions with them over the last year or so and they've resisted trading him. So they obviously like his upside more than talking about Jovic and him getting paid. He's a, he's a role player for them at the moment. It's just interesting when the Heat expend money and put some money on their books. So. But again, what is, what do we do here on the podcast Pontems, When a player signs a contract, we first ask the question can this contract be traded?
Speaker A
And by the way, yeah, it's a good, it's a good deal. I mean he, I mean, look, Nicole jovic is a 22 year old 610 guy who's got skills and it just came off a euro basket where he scored 12 points a game for Serbia and shot over 50% from three. Like he can, he can really play. His problem so far in his career has been he's played a total of 107 games in three years. So he needs to be able to stay on the court, which is partly why I think this number came in where it did. But when you look at him next to Bam Adebayo, he's a perfect fit as a long term four for Miami. And I think this is a deal where there's a ton of upside for the Heat and we could be talking easily about this in as soon as three or four months, if not by next season as one of the better deals in the league. Again, if Jovic can stay on the court, which is a real if one.
Speaker B
Of the better deals in the league.
Speaker A
I'm just talking pure vat, just pure like the kind of deal that like I could see being on the, the all contract team story I do in the middle of the season. Because like if he's a starting power forward making 14, $15 million, that's a really good value contract. Like doesn't make him better than Jaren Jackson Jr. For example. But like when you're, when you talk about why would he spend this money like this could be a starter on what's a backup contract going forward and to get him locked up at 22 years old on this kind of deal. I think it's smart business and I think it, like you said, if Miami's going to spend money, it's going to be on money like this that they can either trade or that doesn't preclude them from having max salary cap space in 2027 when they have Bam and nobody else on the books. Now Bam and Jovic and nobody else on the books potentially go out and add big name players in free agency.
Speaker B
Yeah, well, they currently have nobody on the books. Like, that's why their, their Rogier thing is interesting. And also Norman Powell who is in the final year of his contract and they got on a, on a, on a. Very nice. By the way, I, I, you know, they had, they still have Khalil Ware who almost certainly will have his option picked up. But yeah, you know, but when you look at the Heat and you look at where, where they're at the, with this particular team, you say, okay, Bam, Adebayo, he's their captain, he's their long term franchise player. Wiggins has this year and he has next year's player option, which is $30 million, I think a reasonable chance that he picks that up. But you know, it's possible he could opt out of that and they could redo a deal. NORMAN Powell at $20 million on the last year of his deal. But you are correct, they have been careful with what they have done regarding their, their books to keep them relatively clean after next season.
Speaker A
Well, it's 2027 when Jokic and Giannis and all these guys are available. That is, that is the year to watch.
Speaker C
They're in an in between phase. Well, they've got it, you know, they've got to their position themselves to make a play for their next superstar. Bam is a, an all star. He's not a superstar. They, you know, that's a place that's had success getting superstars over the years. They're positioning themselves to take another big swing. Jovic is a guy who I think factors into that next phase of the Heat either as a high quality, complimentary role player or potentially as a, you know, a trade chip that's included in a deal for a star if it doesn't end up happening via the free agency.
Speaker A
Well, and like you said, Brian Jovic is on the team right now in part because the Heat did not go get Kevin Durant. Right. Like to go back to the same conversation we've had about them a few times, they could have traded for Kevin Durant, but that would have required them sending out more draft picks.
Speaker B
They had two different bites at that apple.
Speaker A
Right. But it was the same choice essentially both times. It was, do we want to trade draft picks and young players to get Kevin Durant and add them to our current team and will that make us good enough or are we going to get assets back in the Jimmy Butler trade and get, get draft picks back, get players back and like McMahon said, recognize that we're in an in between phase and this is not the time to push in. And I, I said at the time, I think we all would agree. I think logically that was the right path to take. Kevin Durant's an all time great player. He was not turning the Miami Heat into a contender.
Speaker C
So Durant ended up where he should have gone.
Speaker A
Yes, 1,000%. And the heat should be waiting for a guy that's going to be a better fit with their team to actually get them back to contending status. And as we all know, the Heat will always be a place guys are interested to play and as long as they remain in the mix for it and keep adding some young players that are interesting, at some point they're going to get somebody.
Speaker B
Kevin Durant was so excited to be a Rocket. I know we talked about that, but just because we just mentioned in passing.
Speaker A
Like I did not basketball fit, he should be excited.
Speaker B
Right, I know. I'm just saying that, you know, I, you know, I have, I was sitting there thinking as I was, you know, sitting in that press conference with Durant on Monday in Houston that, you know, I've, I've been around Kevin Durant in a lot of situations. Now this is his 19th season and, you know, I've seen him on a lot of teams, you know, covered him with Team usa. I've seen him in a lot of uniforms, you know, seen him when he's not been excited. Like, you know, in that 2018-19 season with the warriors, his last year in.
Speaker C
Golden State, like last season in Phoenix, obviously.
Speaker B
Yeah, you know, I don't think that he was, you know, post after the.
Speaker C
Whole trade deadline stuff, like, yes, he.
Speaker B
Was definitely, he was definitely turned off after that. But at the beginning of the season, Durant was genuinely, you know, despite the overall tenor of disappointment about the Fred Van Vliet injury, which, you know, sort of, I think undercut the Rockets momentum regardless of what happens. But I'm just saying, just because you mentioned it, like, I, as I was thinking about and reviewing it on the 15 hour flight out here, I. He was, he was really fired up about it.
Speaker C
You were in those, look, Kevin, you were in those lie flat seats just kind of pondering all this stuff.
Speaker B
You know, it was a very long flight.
Speaker A
I mean, look, Kevin's had very. I mean you go all the way back to when he tore his Achilles in 2019. He. He's not had a whole lot of things to get super excited about. Like in terms of real success, like yeah, they had the one year in Brooklyn where they went seven with the Bucks in 21. Otherwise that whole experiment was a giant disappointment. He goes to Phoenix. That whole experiment was a giant disappointment. They win the one playoff series and they get smoked. Then they, then they get. Or they. Because they. They made the second round the first year. Then they got swept by the wolves, right. And then last year they didn't even make the playoffs. So like you go those two. Seek those two situations together. Like just there just was a lot of misery in both places. And now to land blaze McMahon said in the perfect basketball fit for him where he can fit right in with these younger guys. He's always been a guy who's loved to get in the gym with younger players and work on their games. Like they got Amend Thompson and all, you know, Alfred Shanghu and all these interesting young players. All these guys are in the gym all the time. Like it's got a chance to be an incredible fit for him and you know, like we've talked about a lot. I'm just super excited to watch that rocket stink.
Speaker B
Yeah. All right. So where you are there in Vancouver. By the way McMahon, how did the Mavericks choose to go to Vancouver?
Speaker C
You know, I don't know. I suspect that there's a golf course around here. That J kid wants to play.
Speaker A
A lot of golf course a lot of places though.
Speaker C
Thursday's the off day. I'm going hiking up a mountain. I bet you JK will be on a golf course. But no, I, I don't. They like to get away for training camp. Last year was in Vegas. Now Vancouver. I'll take Vancouver over Vegas, but that's just me.
Speaker B
Yeah. You've been to Vancouver twice this summer. I guess it's fall now but yeah.
Speaker C
Twice in my life. Both within you know, span of months.
Speaker B
Yeah. There you go. So Cooper, Cooper Flag. I know you talked about him when we were on NBA Today year today my yesterday wanted to see what the early returns were on Cooper Flag the rookie of the of the moment.
Speaker C
They still like them.
Speaker B
They're going to keep them.
Speaker C
Yeah, they like him. You know it. They like his competitiveness, they like his basketball iq. And I thought, you know, he put it really well. Like, he. Look, his goal is to be rookie of the year, but he understands, like, this is not a situation that number one overall pick typically walks into where, you know, the ball's in his hands, everything revolves around him. And, you know, you're going to live with growing pains because you're probably going to not win a whole lot of games to get another high lottery pick. He walks into a situation where, yeah, he's going to have the ball some. But look, it's AD's team, first and foremost. Kyrie is going to come back, you know, probably at some point mid season. You know, AD's talked a lot about the pressure not being on Cooper Flagg to have to carry the weight of a team. But I really like, you know, Cooper Flags talked about he wants to just fit in. And, you know, I said, you know, how do you. How do you fit in, but maintain the kind of assertiveness that you've played with your entire life. And he said, I want to fit in, not fade in. You know, he wants to fit in in the sense of impact the game in a ton of different ways. You know, defensively, he might be a more impactful defender right away than an offensive player. You know, defensively as a. As a playmaker, rebounder, you know, making the right reads and scoring. But I thought fit in, not fade in, was. It was a pretty good way to put, you know, what his approach will be this season.
Speaker A
As long as he doesn't fit out.
Speaker C
Yeah, right.
Speaker B
Kevin Love is in Utah.
Speaker C
He's fitting out in Utah. I tell you that.
Speaker B
It did look weird. It did look weird seeing him in a Jazz uniform. He's got the.
Speaker C
He's got the snow peaks on the. On the hair, too.
Speaker A
I forgot he was on the Jazz. So I saw that picture of him, I was like, holy.
Speaker C
He looked like he was in a hostage video.
Speaker A
Yes, yes.
Speaker B
It wasn't that bad.
Speaker C
The.
Speaker B
The thing about Flag that got a lot of people's attention early when he was just, you know, in his mid teens, was how much he wanted. Wanted to defend. This is obviously a player who was incredibly skilled with great size and, you know, you know, a lot of tools and a lot of times when you see a player like that who's going to have entire leagues and entire teams built around him, you don't see defense always being a priority. As I have watched him, he loves to defend. He thrives on defense. In fact, it's one of the reasons, it's one of the, I think reasons that people got excited about him is that he showed such a willingness to defend and not just, you know, you can go look at his highlight videos and he blocks a lot of shots. Okay, he's, he's, he hunts blocked shots, but he wants to defend, you know, a whole bunch of different players and it was really defining his time at Duke. And I will say this, one of the areas that I suspect he can make the biggest impact as a rookie and you know, Norman, we were talking about the number one overall pick, especially if you're talking about a guy like Cooper who is regarded as a potential instantaneous franchise cornerstone. Like, you don't get that every year. You don't see this a lot. But his impact as a rookie very well might be on that defensive end. I realized this experiment with him playing a point guard will be monitored, but that defensive end of the court is where I think we're going to hear about him a lot.
Speaker C
Yeah, and look, he's probably on a lot, if not most nights, going to get the toughest defensive assignment one through three, maybe even four.
Speaker B
Very. That's a incredibly rare for a rookie to hear you say that.
Speaker C
Dude. For an 18 year old rookie who should just be starting college, right. Remember, he reclassified, he should have graduated high school last year.
Speaker B
You reclassified in high school and college?
Speaker C
I believe I reclassified like five times in college. Never, never moving up though. I had a senior era, but again, an 18 year old with that kind of, of defensive ability and responsibilities. I, I don't know, I'd have to think. Have we ever seen that? I'm not sure we have.
Speaker A
Very simply, the guy that he's reminded me of since he was in high school is Kevin Garnett. So I think he is. Yeah, I can see that standpoint, from a skill standpoint, from a, a intensity standpoint. That's, that's who he is. And I, I think he's got a chance to be that kind of player, which obviously is an incredibly high level player. It's all the more reason why it's insane he wound up on the team we wound up on after everything that happened last year. But yeah, I mean, he's, you know, between the playmaking and the versatility at both ends and the defensive intensity and the ability to guard all these positions, like, that's been the guy that he's reminded me of from the jump and I, yeah, he's, he's going to be.
Speaker C
Awfully fun and you know, I was Talking to AD A little bit today, and he was talking about just how much more polished and advanced Cooper is than most rookies than normal rookies, which is really remarkable just given just how young he is. I tell you, it's this kid. He is a. I mean, he is still a baby face kid, and it's a trip. He. This is the first dude I've covered who's younger than my older daughter. So now I'm covering kids younger than my own. Like, God, I'm old.
Speaker A
J.
Speaker C
Kid was the last guy that I covered who was older than me. But like, this. This. This is officially, like, damn it, I'm old.
Speaker B
Yeah. I was talking to one of the Sixers players yesterday and. Or no, Jalen. Jalen Brunson.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
And Jalen Brunson was talking about how he was born in 1996. I was. I was graduating high school in 1996, bro.
Speaker C
I graduated high school a year before that. I remember feeling old when there were guys who were. Who were coming to the league who were born after I graduated high school. Shoot. Now, a lot of those dudes have had nice careers and retired.
Speaker B
Yeah, well, Bob Temps has a newborn, so he's looking at us like, what are you guys talking about? All right, well, thank you very much to Jackson for fighting off jet lag, for letting us get this in. Have some more to talk about next couple of days after I see a couple of games here and looking forward to my meeting with some officials today here in Abu Dhabi.
Speaker C
Dignitaries, right?
Speaker B
Dignitaries, Yes.
Speaker C
I don't know exactly what that means, but I know it means they're important.
Speaker B
People with high titles. So.
Speaker A
Podfather.
Speaker B
Yeah. Yeah, Right. So very much looking forward to that. We'll have some more to talk about with that and then we'll see some more games. Games start tonight. It's shocking to me, but the games start tonight, so we'll actually see some action time.
Speaker A
You hear this. There have been preseason games played. Very exciting.
Speaker B
All right, thank you to Jackson, thank you to Bontems, thank you to McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker C
Adios, amigos.