4. Unaliving

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 I think you might have heard from the last episode that I really struggled on that last

spk_0 walk. I looked at the elevation and technically I climbed a mountain on my own for five hours

spk_0 talking to you like I wonder where I have found it, I struggled. So I opted not to walk over

spk_0 the hills today, I got myself the train to the shore to begin my journey in this last episode with you.

spk_0 In this episode I'm going to be approaching my last descent of yet another very epic journey

spk_0 with you lot. That's almost 100 kilometers and I hope you're doing right because it's there,

spk_0 there's been some steep hills in this season and there's another one to come as I find myself heading

spk_0 towards the end of the line, marching towards my final descent. I want to talk about the end.

spk_0 In this episode I'm going to be talking about how we talk about and how we don't talk about

spk_0 suicide and unaliving. I'll be discussing the law and how we're often compelled to ask about the

spk_0 detail. For clarity there won't be any retellings, there won't be any hows but there will be broad

spk_0 discussion on how we broach suicide culturally. I'll also be talking about the numbers and data

spk_0 and so at some times it might feel a little bit clinical. I also want to talk about the end of life

spk_0 more broadly and what it means for mentors like me, big talks in this one and so it might not be

spk_0 for everyone, particularly if you're in crisis or feeling a bit sore or if stories like these

spk_0 feel too close to home and I think it's really important to say that quite explicitly.

spk_0 This is only a podcast pal you know, there are other things that you might want to listen to

spk_0 but I hope you can understand why I think it's important with knowledge and discuss.

spk_0 So if you're coming with me I might veer off the path a few times to give us a moment to catch

spk_0 our breaths and if that sounds like I'm being frivolous just know it's a little break in proceedings

spk_0 maybe to make the road ahead a little more comfortable for us both.

spk_0 So

spk_0 self-help and I'm just guide to staying alive.

spk_0 So many of you tell me that you listen to this thing when you're

spk_0 and about and I think last season I was so touched by that and particularly by folk who had said

spk_0 they hadn't left the house for a period of time and that this felt like an invitation to leave

spk_0 the house or the bed. So maybe you've got this far and you haven't left the house with me in your

spk_0 ears. Maybe this is your invitation to take a walk. Maybe it isn't.

spk_0 I'm kind of obsessed with history. I love history and so at first point it's cool for me

spk_0 when I want to understand something it's often to see how it's been dealt with in the past.

spk_0 Not as an example but just as a way of kind of like starting to view certain things.

spk_0 And I found some commonalities when delving into kind of history of suicide in Europe and the

spk_0 Middle East that I wanted to share. And the first brace yourself I'm going to say the word

spk_0 Socrates. Oh yeah I know it doesn't fit in my mouth. I know I sound very common saying Socrates

spk_0 but you know what I'm on about Socrates that bloke and I guess because I wanted to find something

spk_0 like historical references to suicide. So why not start at 400 BCE you know. So Socrates wrote

spk_0 a bit about the prohibition of suicide about being wrong and he said a couple of things about

spk_0 here which was one which was we are in a kind of prison and we must not free ourselves or run away.

spk_0 I mean what a cheery way of looking at life is a prison. Do you not remain? What cheery bloke he

spk_0 would have been to add around at your dinner party and the second bit more abstract the gods

spk_0 are our guardians and we are one of their possessions. And these were kind of like some of the earliest

spk_0 explicit non-explicit ways that I could find. People were talking or thinking about end of life

spk_0 in this way. And I think when I started to look at how Socrates died I thought there's an ugly

spk_0 irony here because life is imitating art. Some historians will say Socrates died by suicide

spk_0 because he chose a way to die. He was offered a way out but he chose a way to die. So some historians

spk_0 will say well you know he chose. Essentially it was in some trouble for worshipping fake

spk_0 gods. In ancient Athens if a person died of suicide they were denied honors they would deny the

spk_0 honors of a normal burial. And so this person would be buried alone and that often would be on

spk_0 the outskirts of a city without a headstone or a marker. To be forgotten I guess was the threat.

spk_0 And this idea advances in ancient Rome whilst suicide was initially permitted it was later deemed

spk_0 as a crime against the state but this wasn't about moral value it was about economic value.

spk_0 And then cuts the birth of Christianity. So then this book comes along it's called The Bible.

spk_0 The Christian one and also to be specific the one that's written in English so that I'll date it for

spk_0 you. And there are seven unambiguous examples of suicide. I guess the most famous is

spk_0 Attributor 2. Jesus is some like say most famous disciple and Lady Gargaz Cache cow.

spk_0 Doodaz, doodaz. Although references to suicide in judas only appears in Matthew's gospel.

spk_0 So if you think Matthew can be trusted there you go. Interestingly I found there was nothing in any

spk_0 of the stories in the Bible that suggests that biblical narrators I guess

spk_0 and disapproved of characters, suicides but from here on I think it's all God God God and the

spk_0 justification in the countries with the presence of Christianity is God God God and so it gets written

spk_0 into law as being illegal. In England before the suicide act of 1961

spk_0 1961 can you believe it? A person who had died by suicide could have also been denied burial

spk_0 or their estate could be inforfitted to the crown while survivors could be punished by

spk_0 probation orders, imprisonment or fines. And I found a piece in the Times from 1956 that said

spk_0 there were five and a half thousand failed suicide attempts that were known to police and 613

spk_0 of those were prosecuted. Most were discharged but some were fined up on probation and a staggering

spk_0 33% prison.

spk_0 There's something I quite enjoy about Irish Catholicism and death, particularly in my family and

spk_0 particularly as I see how other families from other cultures process death. My family prepare

spk_0 for their death using advance. Something like grandparents and my mother actually can be accused

spk_0 of is proclaiming at a Sunday lunch. Well when I die the conversations around FI also find

spk_0 very humorous, quite funny, which is quite common conversation between me and my mother on the

spk_0 phone would be. Do you know Kathleen? Kathleen who? Oh you went to school with her daughter.

spk_0 I went to school with loads of people who had mum's good Kathleen. Wow you know she

spk_0 used to work in the bakery and she was second cousins removed from so and said oh yeah she's dead.

spk_0 So from history let's move to culture and obviously one of the oldest art forms that is still

spk_0 supposedly as popular as it is now of which suicide seems to be prolific is opera and I've

spk_0 people are not probably weird. Oh there are strains, there are strange crowds altogether

spk_0 and when I lived in London I used to go to the opera fair bit because I could go to the Royal Opera House

spk_0 and see quite out there operas for a fiver and I think of all of the parts of the arts.

spk_0 Suicide as shorthand seems to be very prolific and when I did some digging around on the internet

spk_0 I found that some very clever people in Australia had done some proper on paper research

spk_0 and the paper is titled four centuries of suicide in opera so massive shout out to

spk_0 saxby aprickmore stefan outshloss i'm so sorry nirissa elso and garry jay water and they say

spk_0 do I do this in an Australian accent to say the adjoe? No do I? Oh my god the internal thoughts

spk_0 we identified three hundred and thirty seven operas no stop it it's rude it's horrible in the period

spk_0 of interest over those four hundred years there was at least one suicide in every seventy four

spk_0 operas 22% mostly among female characters who accounted for 56% of those I guess I bring this up

spk_0 because not because I think opera is to blame but because I think looking at what artists are

spk_0 making work about can often be a sort of litmus test for some of the big issues of the day you know

spk_0 artists often reflect the cultures of which they are existing in I think we are truly fascinated by

spk_0 the act and fascinated who definitely feels like a very uncomfortable word for this take of reiterating

spk_0 my point fascinated I think so much so that we probably don't recognize how prolific it is in the

spk_0 films that we watch and the content that we consume in the books that we read and evidently the

spk_0 operas that we still sit through notice how I didn't say the operas that we enjoy I think suicide

spk_0 can often be used as a shorthand in theatre and opera and film and culture it's like allegoric for

spk_0 um what's the allegoric for like crazy or mad or baddie or you know I guess I'm thinking about

spk_0 lamirs where it's like oh I've lost everything how could I how could I go on um I'm a bad person

spk_0 etc and this is my only way of writing my wrong it's often used as shorthand for failure and I

spk_0 truly believe that the only failure I think should be held within end of life in suicide is that of

spk_0 a society society to comfort and care and support

spk_0 I'm going to talk about some stuck numbers talk about things from a data perspective

spk_0 and it's not pretty and I'm also going to have to talk in binaries because that's that's what

spk_0 data currently tells us but I want to do this for a few reasons because I think there's a few key

spk_0 things going on in England that the data reveals so in 2022 there were 5,642 registered

spk_0 to emphasising England and Wales that's five times more than people who die in road accidents

spk_0 around three quarters were registered as male and this still is the biggest killer of men on

spk_0 day 45 and for females the age specific rate is highest among those who are 50 to 54 and the

spk_0 highest overall area north east of England and I guess I want you to highlight these for a few

spk_0 reasons because I guess for me it's not surprising that women potentially in the age bracket of being

spk_0 parapausal or manipausal or experiencing physical and mental changes in their life and their body

spk_0 we know them to be often ignored, recognised or listened by doctors

spk_0 we also know that north east of England is one of the poorest regions in the UK

spk_0 and we're told that financial pressures are a massive factor in these numbers and we're

spk_0 search on to taken by some meritons agree that socioeconomic status tends to be the main cause globally

spk_0 as you can imagine as a common working class mentalist raised by a feminist mother

spk_0 you put these facts together and it really pisses me off

spk_0 so much of the conversation about prevention is focused on talking

spk_0 so much of mental health well days about talking talk to somebody you know

spk_0 and it just frustrates me because I just want to be like well use your fucking ad campaign cash

spk_0 than the millions that you spend on running your charity to address poverty

spk_0 I know that's simplistic I know you can't just throw cash at problems but

spk_0 so much of this stuff in this episode and beyond feels to me like it's dedicated to the beds

spk_0 we grow up in and that isn't to deny anybody who comes from more economically privileged or

spk_0 stable background that isn't to say that those experiences aren't real or true

spk_0 just focusing on some of the things that seem to be glaring at me

spk_0 of how we use our resources of how we care for each other

spk_0 because despite what beds you're born in we're kind of truly fucked by these last days of

spk_0 capitalism aren't we all of us

spk_0 I guess what I'm trying to lean us towards is to say that suicide isn't just an issue of mental health

spk_0 but it's an issue of class too

spk_0

spk_0 whenever I'm at the seaside

spk_0 I'm always quite compelled to read the benches and then I have to remind myself to stop

spk_0 you know because I get to involved in these people's lives I'm like oh god

spk_0 Jesus that flow she sounded like a great human being God she's left people behind

spk_0 so the event's got a stop focusing on the bench

spk_0 just another fucking hill around it hills was a dick you've heard it here first

spk_0 well whilst I was researching this episode I listened to a archive episode of a program called

spk_0 the moral maze it's like this talky radio debate show with a man called Michael Buck

spk_0 now Michael Buck for the uninitiated he used to present the news when I was a kid

spk_0 and then he went on to present a program called 999 which basically reconstructed

spk_0 horrible things that happened to members of the general public and how other members of the

spk_0 public dived in until the emergency response teams arrived and I tell you what while sat on this

spk_0 cliff face walking on my own that man I think is responsible for a generation of people my age

spk_0 with anxiety disorders also I can't look at a jacuzzi in the same way since that program

spk_0 does anyone remember that one if you don't don't go looking for it

spk_0 anyway on the moral maze on this episode they were talking about suicide and how it

spk_0 should and shouldn't be discussed in the public domain and they kept all referring to this code of

spk_0 practice and I didn't know but there are guidelines in the UK of how to discuss suicide when you are

spk_0 a publisher a journalist a publication and guidelines that I I am glad I read

spk_0 I'm glad I knew about the editor's code of practice sets out the rules that members regulated by

spk_0 the independent press standard organisation have agreed to have agreed to follow the code is written

spk_0 by the editors committee and it is enforced by the iS IPSO the latest version of the

spk_0 effect on the first of January 2021 and this code doesn't just touch on suicide but it just

spk_0 touch on other bits as well but for the purposes of this close five reporting suicide when reporting

spk_0 suicide to prevent simulative acts the care should be taken to avoid excessive detail of method

spk_0 whilst taking to account the media's right to report legal proceedings

spk_0 you ask anyone who's affected by suicide they'll tell you there's often questions of how

spk_0 that fascination I was talking about earlier I think is a true fascination

spk_0 and I guess I want to place into the world the question of why do you want to know

spk_0 why do you need to know why is it important

spk_0 so we've touched on history the law culture and guidance and I want to move on to

spk_0 language and how we talk about it there are ever been many calls in the UK to change the language

spk_0 used around the topic of suicide particularly with the phrase commit because that phrase commit

spk_0 is something which is a legacy of the illegality of suicide to commit something insinuates a crime

spk_0 as if somebody is committing fraud

spk_0 and I know sometimes when we talk about language in this way it can feel very academic

spk_0 of what use of what purpose but I think the way we talk is important if I think about how we

spk_0 can't we talk about suicide we talk about unaliving I think that's the word of our age isn't it

spk_0 unaliving is one of these new words created in a digital setting to evade the rules of what you

spk_0 can and you can't say on digital platforms and it has moved from virtual space and into our

spk_0 mouth into our parlance into the ways that we speak and our languages now I'm approaching 40

spk_0 and unaliving isn't something that's part of my vocabulary and neither is AI so I thought I'd

spk_0 ask chat PG tips why young people use the term and the robot came back and said the term

spk_0 unaliving has emerged on the internet as a way to discuss the topic of suicide and death whilst

spk_0 avoiding censorship demonization or content moderation of social media platforms social media

spk_0 platforms like TikTok YouTube and Instagram use algorithms to monitor content for certain key

spk_0 words words like suicide can trigger these algorithms leading to content being flagged removed or

spk_0 demonized unaliving is a workaround to discuss these topics without triggering those automated

spk_0 systems many platforms have strict community guidelines around discussing self-harm and suicide

spk_0 using euphemisms like unaliving allows creators to talk about important issues while staying within

spk_0 the guidelines there you go that's what the robot thinks I guess generous me would say this is

spk_0 a way of us continuing the discussion to find ways we might keep conversations going but I think

spk_0 the realist in me is like I want to talk about this thing but I don't want to learn my engagement

spk_0 you know sometimes I don't think these things are about mindful language I think sometimes they're

spk_0 about internet popularity I think culturally many of us will have experienced and people talk

spk_0 about their wishes and it always feels a bit abstract to me because you're not there to see it or

spk_0 I don't believe that I'll be there to see it and so I wonder if we should

spk_0 reframe the idea of a celebration of life as being the wishes of those left behind

spk_0 what will make the end softer for them because you know I could say oh get them done in some

spk_0 as greatest hits but my lot might not like that they might want something else

spk_0 as much as I've got a big ego I wouldn't want them to be subjected to my idea of healing

spk_0 I wonder what happens if we hand over the the last moments to those left wonder what um

spk_0 celebration looks like then

spk_0 in yoga towards the end we have the last pose so a moment in every class or should be in every class

spk_0 in every practice called Shavasana Shavasana the corpse pose it's like the finale I guess

spk_0 because you do lots of moving work before it try and tie the body

spk_0 and in this posture for this time we submit we lie down

spk_0 and in that time you might do some thinking and often people are encouraged to have their

spk_0 eyes closed all looks a bit Disney to me so that's one of these been put to sleep

spk_0 like a sleeping beauty and the idea of Shavasana is to emulate the fact that one day

spk_0 all of us who experience life will experience the end and I like to see Shavasana

spk_0 as a as a rehearsal practicing for what it might be like when that moment comes

spk_0 and I guess the more I practice it the more the more I uh make peace with the end

spk_0 and we're talking about the end and noticing the end

spk_0 you

spk_0 yogic philosophy believes

spk_0 few try to practice the end make peace with the end

spk_0 and recognize that many of us fear the end then through rehearsal and practice

spk_0 we begin to accept the end and the assurance that it will one day come

spk_0 and the idea is by doing such

spk_0 we appreciate the chapters before the stories before it

spk_0 and as the rain comes down and begins to help me again

spk_0 I too can say today I'm appreciating this chapter of my life

spk_0 these walks these conversations with you

spk_0 give me great appreciation for being alive

spk_0 so thanks

spk_0 I've made it to the final hill and I can see the finish line, I can see the town Aberystwyth

spk_0 where I'll finish this journey and it means our time has come to an end friends for another

spk_0 year.

spk_0 So maybe you can stop walking now, maybe you can take a break, get a brew for yourself.

spk_0 I think making this has been much harder than I remembered. But I'm glad I did it. I'm glad you got this far as well.

spk_0 Remember these are my thoughts and my feelings and I know they're big ones but I'm no psych.

spk_0 I'm a patient and someone who has been meandering and no doubt will meander these systems and this stuff the rest of my life.

spk_0 So thank you for giving me the space, the headspace, your time and attention to think aloud. I really appreciate it.

spk_0 If you've enjoyed the series I would be so grateful for a review of some stars, a share, a shout out online, whatever.

spk_0 Maybe none of the above. But go on, you paid nothing, you cheap slug. If you haven't enjoyed it, keep your mouth shut.

spk_0 Okay, thank you so much for your attention. I'm grateful and I hope after this you're able to find a way to treat yourself to something nice.

spk_0 You can find me on the internet by searching Scotty with Trees, I'll be on Instagram, Facebook and Threads or Scotty.co.uk.

spk_0 But as ever, look after yourself as best she can. See you next time.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 I'm going to say something that's difficult to say aloud. I grew up with somebody very similar to me, with friends and had similar presentations.

spk_0 And one of us is here to tell the tale today.

spk_0 And there was a period of my life where this showed up as survivors guilt.

spk_0 And I think I'm moving through to a part of my life where this has become about being able to tell the story and surviving on Iowa behalf.

4. Unaliving

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